139 changes

[FFMaster]

In about a week, I'll start work on very 139. Compile a list of changes and bug fixes since I haven't been able to keep up to date. Scholar changes will not be needed. They are getting replaced by Druids and will have different stats and skills

I know everyone has different ideas currently on things like spellguns and Oil, but let's try to work together


See you guys soon.

[The Damned]

(Good to see you back. [Insert standard New Year's greeting I don't believe in here.)

Hmmm...would it be wrong of me to ask of what exactly Druid would entail? And why it's outright replacing Scholar?

(Also, what type of Druid, like i.e. D & D True Neutral? Because if it's like those Harry Potter fanfic Druids, there's really only so many skills that can involve nakedness....

Sapphic EDIT: And lipstick "lesbianism". Can't forget that type of "Druidness" either. *roll eyes*)

Or would that clutter up the thread already?

In about a week, I'll start work on very 139. Compile a list of changes and bug fixes since I haven't been able to keep up to date.

I'll compile the list of changes at the very least since I was going to do that anyway (and like half of the way too long posts concerning those are mine anyway). The bug fix thing I'd be less helpful for given my "issue" with Excel still, but I already have a way smaller list of those, such as noting that Sand Storm is still causing Stop and not Berserk.

Regardless, I can "easily" have the list done before you start actually working on 139.

[Reks]

Kinda sad to see Scholars go, but I'm very interested in what Druids might offer.

Can't wait to see!

And sorry, I can't offer much on proposed changes myself. Other than spellguns perhaps being elemental rather than firing magic directly, but Celdia said that giving guns elements doesn't work as it should.

[Malroth]

What I'd Like to see

Squire:
Cheaper MP, JP and CT cost for Ultima
Longer range for Wish
No CT for Yell

Paladin:
+1 MA

Archer:
+MP
Lower JP cost for all active skills by 50
Lower JP cost for Projectile Guard

Wizard:
Increase Cev
Lower MP costs
Death adds Undead as well as Death
Nether fire/ice/bolt/water are not subject to MEV
Poison replaced by Oil
Innate Magic attack UP

Priest:
Add Poles and Books to Equipable Items
Increase HP
Innate Magic Defend UP
Ensuna Can Remove Oil

Time Mage:
Add Daggers/Ninjato to equipable items
Increase Speed to 10
Innate Shortcharge
Increased accuracy on Don't Move/Haste/Slow
Lower MP/CT cost on Demi/Demi2

Oracle:
Innate Defend UP
Give AOE2 to dispel Magic

Summoner:
Can equip Harps and Headbands
Innate Half of MP

Samurai:
Add Books to equipable items
Remove Enemy only from Asura
Muramasa becomes Water Elemental

Monk:
+MA
Stigma Magic can remove Oil
Equip Headbands added to Martial Arts Innate

[Eternal]

Innates on jobs like what you've suggested are a VERY. BAD. IDEA. The issue is that the R/S/Ms you equip stack with innates. Therefore, you could run around with Wizards that have Short Charge that are combined with their Innate: MA Up. That would be absurd, and it'd be totally unbalanced. I used to think giving them innates like that was a good idea, but it just gets ridiculous fast.

My list:

-Spellguns need to be M-EVDable.
-Add Cancel: Oil to Esuna.
-Give Shields to Time Mages.

There's some other stuff I wanted to discuss, but I'll add that in the balance discussion thread shortly. As for Druids, Reks/Damned, they'll have some existing Lore stuff, but they'll be more focused on Monsters. At least, if FFM is keeping the skillset he and I discussed ages ago.

[The Damned]

(Yeah, Innates should be avoided unless there's no real other choice to have the unit be effective with its primary job, as in the case of Mime and Chemist (and Mediator, if Monsters were around). Otherwise, it usually ends up being overpowering.)

Wait, wait. So Monsters are getting involved too finally? Isn't that like a huge change?

Especially since people couldn't even decide on what the hell the basic monster template was going to look like in the monster specific thread that came up some years ago.

[Reks]

(Yeah, Innates should be avoided unless there's no real other choice have the unit be effective, as in the case of Mime and Chemist (and Mediator, if Monsters were around). Otherwise, it usually ends up being overpowering )

Wait, wait. So Monsters are getting involved too finally? Isn't that like a huge change?

Especially since people couldn't even decide on what the hell the basic monster template was going to look like in the monster specific thread that came up some years ago.

Unless he'd meant that in Blue-Magic style.

[reinoe]

I made a general list in the "Balance" thread so that we can hammer things out.  It doesn't have everything though.

[Barren]

I don't mind whatever changes that come for 1.39 but my only gripe is Tsumazuku because its a skill that its never used and to me it either needs a change on what it does or we ditch it. 100% Cancel haste is useless considering that a slow, dispel or even just killing the hasted unit period can cancel haste anyways.

I also don't agree with all (some I do however) of Malroth's suggestions because giving priest with magic defend up innate is a bit too powerful; especially when you combine that with lets say 40 brave defense up and either cherche or setiemson or even iron boots if you want to be fancy about it and have it never vulnerable to physical and magical damage. Same with wizards like Eternal said

Priests with books I don't have a problem with though. Black mages should equip daggers like in FF1, not time mages.

Maybe if possible we can add a Blue Mage class to the miss and have it learn monster skills. I'll make a list later if anyone is interested on equips and such

Samurais with books sounds fun but I don't think they need it, just katanas is fine as it is

[Gaignun]

I'm reposting Raven's rebalanced equipment with a few tweaks that followed later discussions.  Armour that is not listed remains as is.  All listed armour apart from Golden Hairpin receive buffs.  Also, these changes assume that each piece of equipment gets its own attribute space.

spoiler: "Helmets"

HP 120 MP 040 Cross Helmet - No Added Effects.
HP 150 MP 000 Grand Helmet - No Added Effects.

spoiler: "Armour"

HP 160 MP 000 Maximillian - No Added Effects.

spoiler: "Hats"

HP 070 MP 000 Twist Headband - PA +2.
HP 070 MP 000 Holy Miter - MA +2.
HP 110 MP 050 Black Hood - No Added Effect.
HP 070 MP 030 Golden Hairpin - Strengthen: Holy, Dark.

spoiler: "Headbands"

HP 060 MP 060 Focus Band - Immune: Undead, Charm, Innocent, Faith.
HP 040 MP 040 Choice Band - Immune: Dead, Frog, Petrify, Berserk, Sleep, Death Sentence.
HP 020 MP 020 Chakra Band - Immune: Poison, Silence, Blind, Slow, Stop, Don't Move, Don't Act, Oil.

spoiler: "Clothing"

HP 120 MP 020 Brigandine - No Added Effects.
HP 100 MP 010 Santa Outfit - Absorb: Ice, Wind.
HP 100 MP 010 Black Costume - Absorb: Fire, Dark.
HP 100 MP 010 Rubber Costume - Absorb: Lightning, Water.
HP 090 MP 020 Earth Clothes - Absorb: Earth, Strengthen: Earth.
HP 070 MP 000 Secret Clothes - SP +1.

spoiler: "Robes"

HP 110 MP 050 Silk Robe - No Added Effects.

spoiler: "Accessories"

Power Wrist: increase P-EV to 25 (from 15)
Genji Gauntlet: increase M-EV to 25 (from 15)
Sprint Shoes: add "Immune: Slow"

spoiler: "Shields"

Crystal Shield: add "immune: Oil"

And for class-based stuff,

spoiler: "Squire"

Yell: decrease CT to 0 (from 3).  Add a soundbyte that plays Roger Daltrey screaming "YEEAAAAAAAAH" every time it's used.  Or Billy Idol singing "Moh, moh, moh."  Your choice.
Wish: increase range to 3 (from 1)

spoiler: "Chemist"

Receives support skill Defend from Squire

spoiler: "Archer"

Leg Aim: Reduce JP cost to 100 (from 200)
Arm Aim: Reduce JP cost to 250 (from 300)
Execute: Reduce JP cost to 150 (from 200)
Cover Fire: Reduce JP cost to 250 (from 300)

spoiler: "Priest"

Regenerator: Make it trigger off of being targeted (like Counter Flood) as opposed to taking HP damage

spoiler: "Wizard"

Flare: reduce MP cost to 40 (from 50)

spoiler: "Time Mage"

Haste: increase Y value to 70 (from 60)
Haste 2: decrease JP cost to 200 (from 300)
Slow: increase Y value to 70 (from 60)
Slow 2: decrease JP cost to 200 (from 300)
Sinkhole: decrease JP cost to 200 (from 250)
Critical Quick: decrease JP cost to 250 (from 300)
Chrono Trigger: decrease JP cost to 250 (from 300)

spoiler: "Mediator"

Persuade: increase Y value to 55 (from 45)
Preach: increase Y value to 60 (from 45)
Solution: increase Y value to 60 (from 45)

spoiler: "Thief"

Quickening: increase MP cost to 20 (from 15).  With hats and clothes getting an MP boost, this is done to prevent "Move-MP UP + Quickening" from being easily used on tanks with huge HP pools.
Give Thieves around +5 base MP (on par with Ninja)

spoiler: "Lancer"

Ignore Height: decrease JP cost to 150 (from 300 - there is no way a map-dependent skill that lets its user run away from his/her own party is worth that much JP)
Let Lancers equip robes

spoiler: "Bard"

Last Song: increase Y value to 50 (from 34)

spoiler: "Ninja"

Tsumazuku: change to 4 range, 1 AoE, 1 Vert, 10 MP, Dmg_B(SP*WP), Cancel: Haste, Regen.  Rename it "Kibaku Fuda" (Exploding Tag).
Kagesougi: remove "add: Don't Act"
Replace Houkouton with Thief's Heretic.  Rename it "Mushin."  Houkouton bites the dust.
Add new movement skill "Speed +1," which costs 400 JP

Also, there's a general consensus that Time Mages should receive a buff.  How, exactly, is still under debate.  I wish to make them 8 SP tanks with shields and a wider weapon set so that they can use Balance properly.  Others want to bump them up to 10 SP instead.

FFMaster, do you plan to make Druids tanks?  If Druids are tanks, then I am fine with giving Time Mages the SP buff and transferring Balance to Druid's skill set.

Edit: Tweaked a few things further.

[RavenOfRazgriz]

Fishing through the Balance thread, grabbing most of the semi-competent suggestions... dear god this is like 300 posts appreciate this you assholes.  None of these will be given their context because this is going to take long enough to assemble as it is.

spoiler: WEAPONS

[KNIVES]
Throwing Knife - 12 WP
Air Knife - 11 WP

[NINJATO]
(All of the following should be compatible with both Two Swords and Two Hands.)
Hidden Knife - 8 WP. 0% W-EVD, No Element, Always: Transparent, +1 SPD
Ninja Knife - 11 WP, 5% W-EVD, No Element, +1 PA
Short Edge - 10 WP, 5% W-EVD, No Element, 50% Add: Oil
Ninja Edge - 9 WP. 15% W-EVD, No Element, 50% Add: Don't Move
Spell Edge - 11 WP, 5% W-EVD, No Element, +1 MA, 100% Cast: Spell Absorb
Sasuke Knife - 11 WP, 10% W-EVD, Fire Element, Boost: Earth (Insert Naruto Joke Here) (Make Icon Red)
Koga Knife - 11 WP, 10% W-EVD, Earth Element, Boost: Fire
Orochimaru Fang - 12 WP, 0% W-EVD, No Element, 50% Add: Blind

[SWORDS]
Phoenix Blade - Immune: Critical
Parry Edge - 25% W-EVD

[KNIGHT SWORDS]
Defender - 16 WP
Save the Queen - 15 WP, Always: Protect
Ragnarok - 15 WP, Always: Shell

[AXES]
Battle Axe - 25% W-EVD, "Decap" Damage becomes 50% MaxHP
Giant Axe - 20% W-EVD

[STAVES]
White Staff - Holy Element
Healing Staff - 20% W-EVD GAIN Strengthen: Dark, +1 Speed, renamed Chaos Staff.
Rainbow Staff - GAIN Immune: Oil
Gold Staff - 15% W-EVD

[GUNS]
Blaze Gun - Forced Two Hands
Glacier Gun - Forced Two Hands
Blast Gun - Forced Two Hands

[CROSSBOWS]
Silencer - 12 WP
Poison Bow - 10 WP

[LONGBOWS]
Long Bow - Move +1

[SPEARS]
Spear - Ice Element, 5% W-EVD, renamed Chill Spear.
Mythril Spear - Fire Element, 5% W-EVD, renamed Scorch Spear
Partisan - Lightning Element, 5% W-EVD, renamed Tesla Spear
Holy Lance - 15% W-EVD, Holy Breath proc becomes MA*8, one hit only.

spoiler: ARMORS

[HELMETS]
HP 120 MP 040 Cross Helmet - No Added Effects.
HP 120 MP 000 Genji Helmet - Initial: Berserk, Immune: Blind.
HP 150 MP 000 Grand Helmet - No Added Effects.

[HATS]
HP 080 MP 020 Green Beret - Move +1, Jump +1.
HP 070 MP 000 Twist Headband - PA +2.
HP 070 MP 000 Holy Miter - MA +2.
HP 110 MP 050 Black Hood - No Added Effect.
HP 060 MP 030 Golden Hairpin - Strengthen: Holy, Dark.
HP 080 MP 020 Flash Hat - Initial: Innocent.
HP 060 MP 000 Thief Hat - SP +1, Half: Wind, Earth, Water.

[HEADBAND]
HP 060 MP 060 Focus Band - Immune: Undead, Charm, Innocent, Faith.
HP 045 MP 045 Choice Band - Immune: Dead, Frog, Petrify, Berserk, Sleep, Death Sentence.
HP 030 MP 030 Chakra Band - Immune: Poison, Silence, Blind, Slow, Stop, Don't Move, Don't Act, Oil.

[ARMOR]
HP 160 MP 000 Maximillian - No Added Effects.

[CLOTHES]
HP 080 MP 000 Wizard Outfit - MA +2.
HP 120 MP 020 Brigadine - No Added Effects.
HP 100 MP 010 Santa Outfit - Absorb: Ice, Wind.
HP 080 MP 000 Power Sleeve - PA +2.
HP 090 MP 010 Earth Clothes - Absorb: Earth, Strengthen: Earth.
HP 070 MP 000 Secret Clothes - SP +1.
HP 100 MP 010 Black Costume - Absorb: Fire, Dark.
HP 100 MP 010 Rubber Costume - Absorb: Lightning, Water.

[ROBES]
HP 110 MP 040 Silk Robe - No Added Effects.

spoiler: ACCESSORIES

REMOVED:
Power Wrist
Genji Gauntlet

NEW:
Natural Wrist - Half/Weak: All Elements, Immune: Oil.
Cursed Glove - +2 PA, +2 MA, Always: Poison, Immune: Regen.

EDITED:
Small Mantle - LOSE Immune: Earth, Holy, GAIN +1 MA.
Leather Mantle - GAIN Immune: Earth, Holy.
Feather Mantle - GAIN Immune: Wind, Water.
Vanish Mantle - LOSE Immune: Wind, Water, GAIN +1 PA.
Salty Rage - GAIN Immune: Blind.

spoiler: JOBS AND SKILLS

[SQUIRE]
Lose: Equip Clothes - See Monk.
Lose: Defend - See Chemist.

Yell - CT 0
Wish - Range 3, Vertical 3, JP Cost 150.
Ultima - MP 16, CT 4, JP Cost 300.

[CHEMIST]
Gain: Defend

[MONK]
Gain: Equip Clothes

Spin Fist - Fury_PA*9, 6 MP, Evadable/CounterGraspable/CounterFloodable, Self Range 2 Area 0 Vertical, 0 CT, No Element
Repeating Fist Fury_PA*10, 8 MP, Unevadable/Uncounterable/CounterFloodable, 1 Range 0 Area 0 Vertical, 0 CT, Water Element, renamed Torrent Fist
Wave Fist - Fury_PA*9, 12 MP, Evadable/CounterGraspable/CounterFloodable, 3 Range 0 Area 3 Vertical, 0 CT, Wind Element
Earth Slash - Fury_PA*8, 16 MP, Evadable/CounterGraspable/CounterFloodable, 6 Range Linear Area 1 Vertical, 0 CT, Earth Element

Equip Clothes - Gains Headband Access.

[PRIEST]
Female Stats Become HP 106 MP 82 PA 6 MA 10 SP 9

Regen - Y+35
Protect - Y+10
Protect2 - Y+10
Shell - Y+10
Shell2 - Y+10

[WIZARD]
Flare - MP 36.

[TIME MAGE]
Female Stats Become HP 125 MP 87 PA 3 MA 10 SP 8

Haste - Y+10
Haste2 - JP Cost 200
Slow - Y+10
Slow2 - JP Cost 200.
Comet - JP Cost 100.
Sinkhole - JP Cost 200.

[THIEF]
Base MP +10.
Lose: Heretic - See Ninja.

[ORACLE]
Dispel Magic - Area 1

[LANCER]
Gain: Robe Access.

Equip Polearm - Gains Cloth Access.

[NINJA]
Gain: Heretic - Renamed "something adequately weeaboo"
Gain: Speed +1 Movement Ability, JP Cost 400.

Meiton @ PA*9, Reflectable, Evadable, 11 MP, NO Counter Magic, NO Counter Flood, DARK
Fuuton @ PA*10, Reflectable, Evadable, YES Counter Magic, Counter Flood, 16 MP, WIND
Suiton @ PA*8, Non-Reflectable, Non-Evadable, YES Counter Magic, YES Counter Flood, 6 MP, WATER

[SCHOLAR/DRUID]
Only going to note that this class should (imo) be a 9-Speed, Shield-using class with most of Scholar's current equipment options.

Also:

Equip Magegear - Gains Harp Access.

[BARD / DANCER]
Fly - Gain "Float" capability, essentially turning Fly into Float 2.0 for a higher JP Cost.  (Pokeytax has a random ASM that does this lying around somewhere.)

spoiler: STATUS

Oil - Blocks Reactions
Berserk - Allows Evasion

If a lot of these look unfamiliar, it's because they're very old suggestions most of you guys buried under the many many mountains of Keyboard Highlander from The Damned and other discussion that quickly got tossed aside the second the newest Arena fad came around.  A couple of these are things I slipped in to address things that were brought up but never answered (such as Mantle adjustments to address people who actually do want +PA/MA and +EVD) or come in slightly tweaked forms in reply to some critique that was never answered.

I think the wholly new thing would be my Cursed Glove, which is mostly just a thing to fill the slot that would be kinda cool to have but I'm pretty sure we don't even have Item Attribute room for currently, and the only one that's a bit of true personal fiat is the Magic Gun "solution" - removing the Kaiser Plate synergy while still leaving the Guns themselves strong and compatible with Pilgrimage.  Their main thing is that they're strong at the drawback of using Faith on a unit that should probably be running 40 Faith otherwise, so I'd rather preserve that and remove the Kaiser Plate synergy.  It also keeps them usable on the widest array of units (something lowering WP wouldn't do) and gives the player the choice of either a fairly strong option without Pilgrimage or a risk-reward setup with Pilgrimage without the 25% bonus from Kaiser Plate making it do laughably high damage.

The only thing missing from this is a "replacement" for the Crystal Shield.  With the "Water" Spells being on the Wizard's skillset, Ninjitsu being Wind/Water/Dark, etc., we could potentially bring back Venetian Shield fairly safely, but... eh.

[The Damned]

(I'd be up for Blue Mage actually replacing Scholar if Scholar has to die, but that's more because a) I really like Blue Mages, b) we've already been without monsters for two plus years with no one really clamoring for monsters as it is and c) I have no idea what the hell Druid will be.)

So...yeah. Raven has chosen to compile things ahead of me. I'll still probably compile a mass list anyway depending on his format of things, but it will be nice to have another "all-encompassing" list that doesn't have my bias.

I'll still hold off posting my personal list of changes for now, partly because I'm still deciding on some things.

Unless he'd meant that in Blue-Magic style.

(So the double quotation thing was an error. I thought as much.)

That is unlikely given that there are 16 monsters and only 16 Active Ability spaces in any job, so FFMaster (or Eternal) would have likely just said that Blue Mage was being added instead of a "Druid". Additionally, that would still be a topic of much debate given how widely vanilla monster skills ran the gamut from worthless (i.e. pretty much every monster "Attack" skill that wasn't Triple Attack) to broken [on humans] (i.e. Self-Destruct, Blood Suck, Mind Blast, etc.).

So...yeah. It would be useful to know at least what Druid is aiming for even if we don't get to know what it has before 139 actually comes out, especially if it's causing Scholar to get axed. Scholar dying out of the blue is rather...jarring and I say this as someone who has always been somewhat wary of Lore's hit all spells.

I made a general list in the "Balance" thread so that we can hammer things out.  It doesn't have everything though.

(Yeah, we should probably debate things in the Balance thread.)

Having looked over the list and not wanting to get in the Raven's way of "compiling" (before Firefox froze on me mid-type), I'll just respond to what I think needs clarifying here (and maybe copy it over into the Balance thread later):

spoiler: Time Mage

Its fate still is totally up in the air now with Gaignun's proposal even (or perhaps especially) with Scholar dying. The only things that have been "decided" about Time Mage is that its Speed likely needs to change from 9 to either 8 or 10 and its stats need to not be a worse version of Mediator.

Everything else that's been agreed upon with regards to it have actually been either with regards to Time Magic, i.e. the Haste spells could use a small boost in accuracy, or Staves, as we'll go into later.

spoiler: Speed +1

Yeah, it was pretty much agreed, at least implicitly, that this was going to Ninja if it existed at all.

spoiler: Staves

I think it was actually agreed upon a couple of months ago that aside from Mace of Zeus and maybe Gold Staff, they all aren't worth using. Sure, Wizard Staff is useful too of course, but it's literally a carbon copy of Wizard Rod that only has a value for Priests & Time Mages and even then only really the former; both those classes can still equip C Bags though, so Raven and I have been disagreeing on whether it should die: him against it dying, me for.

I decided to "compromise" a couple of days ago by suggesting that the +2 MA effect move to Healing Staff, which both Raven & I alongside formerdeathcorps and possibly other people had agreed "should" gain Strengthen Dark alongside its Strengthen Holy.

So, basically, the argument about Staves hasn't slipped to the wayside because of Masamune and Spellguns, but rather because no one could really agree what changes to implement to them aside from Rainbow Staff maybe having Block: Oil. (Even that one was is dubious since formerdeathcorps objected to it and Crystal Shield gaining Block: Oil despite Crystal Shield be currently nigh-useless.)

spoiler: Thief and Quickening potentially raising in MP cost

There actually wasn't much debate over Quickening raising cost.

I suggested raising the cost by 5 more MP if it has to stick around since Clothes & Hats will actually have MP options now and Wiz's team has already kind of broken Quickening set-up with the currently less-MP stuff. Literally the only reply to that proposal before Gaignun reaffirmed it above in this was was Raven saying that "Quickening is overrated." That's it. The balance thread is, unfortunately, often lacking in actual discussion about half of the things that end up getting changed; admittedly, I'm sure my wall of texts don't help a lot of the time.

spoiler: Ninja and Kagesougi potentially losing Do Not Act

Again, there was literally no feedback on this one way or actual thread. Gaignun supporting it above was the first instance of other. I proposed it and...nothing was said one way or the other.

That said, pretty much all the other Ninja skills were agreed upon:


1. Houkouton dies and an analog maybe goes to Thief as a replacement for Heretic.

2. Heretic gets taken from Thief and goes to Ninja, becoming "Mushin (no Shin)".

3. The elemental -tons become actually differed.

4. Tsumazuku dies and becomes something actually usable and something that be able to counter all of the Masamune (literally) running around, with the exploding tag idea being the most likely.

5. Ninjato get completely overhauled as Raven proposed and I mostly agreed with.

6. Ninja get the Movement skill "Speed +1" if it exists.

spoiler: Axes

I'm pretty sure everyone agreed with Raven's suggestions here, meaning the Slasher becoming usable with Two Swords thing wasn't a joke. It's just for some reason a few people thought it would look visually hilarious, which I'm not really seeing why, but it's not like I get most people's sense of humor.

Shrug.

Everything else has been addressed.

If a lot of these look unfamiliar, it's because they're very old suggestions most of you guys buried under the many many mountains of Keyboard Highlander from The Damned and....

(There can only be one!)

Amusingly, I've never seen anything from that franchise save for most of that terrible The Source movie, but I digress.

Thanks for doing this, even if quickly skimming it reveals some more contentious things being there. Like I said though, personal bias is unfortunately inevitable, so multiple comprehensive lists won't hurt.

[Dokurider]

Let's not forget the Monk overhaul.

Cursed Glove - +2 PA, +2 MA, Always: Poison, Darkness, Immune: Regen.

I like the idea of Always: Poison, but +2 PA/MA already has limited applications. The only units that could use +2 MA/PA to it's fullest potential would be Elemental spammers, book users and to a lesser extent, Samurai. Add in Always Darkness, and Samurai and Book Users go away. Furthermore, the boost Cursed Glove would give Elemental would barely be worth the cost of being Poisoned and Blinded. A boost that would barely edge out 108 Gems.

Keep the Always Poison and Immune: Regen, but instead of +2 PA/MA, it can either be +2 PA with +1 SPD or just +2 SPD with Immune: Haste (can't let you go too fast there, Sonic wannabes). Most Mages wouldn't like their +2 MA mixed with +1 SPD, but Draw Out users would.

As for a replacement for Crystal Shield, how about a Cursed Shield? Initial: Poison, Blind, Don't Move, Immune: Poison, Blind, Don't Move, 20 P-Ev/M-Ev.

And know that there is a method behind the madness that is Quickening.

[Gaignun]

Kagesougi losing Don't Act

I only included it because I find it extremely difficult to not put a Ninja with Hidden Knife and Kagesougi on my teams.  No other build gets to inflict around 200 damage with two free status ailments on the side.  By removing Don't Act, people will at least have a chance to heal the damage.

[RavenOfRazgriz]

The Darkness wasn't meant to be there, it was originally gonna do something else and I changed my mind and forgot to pull that off.  It was just supposed to be Poison/Regen.  The idea is that it's like a 108 Gems that works on everything ever and gives especially good boosts to Books and Geomancy at the cost of being Poisoned.  Something simple yet useful.

Adding the Monk Overhaul and the Ninjitsu Overhaul.  Don't really care about Kagesougi either way, not gonna lie, but it'll be good either way so it can lose the Don't Act proc for what it's worth.



Also Gaignun, changing the trigger for a Reaction is a lot more skin-grafting agony than you'd be lead to believe.

[Eternal]

From what FFM and I discussed a while back, Druids would have the map-wide Lore skills and abilities that buff/heal monsters and damage monsters. They'd probably be using modified Reis formulae for reference. We discussed moving the Bio spells around (possibly to Wizard), but I have no clue if he's keeping those around at this point.

[Otabo]

Before I forget, can we please also add an animation for Focus? Is it possible to just give it Accumulate's animation?

Also, if Scholar is leaving, who is getting Tornado and Quake?

[The Damned]

(What Otabo said.)

*lazy ass finally gets up*

I really need to stop falling asleep at 5:00 A.M.

I only included it because I find it extremely difficult to not put a Ninja with Hidden Knife and Kagesougi on my teams.  No other build gets to inflict around 200 damage with two free status ailments on the side.  By removing Don't Act, people will at least have a chance to heal the damage.

Yeah, basically. I didn't mean to imply that you said that simply because you were agreeing with me. I was just pointing out that, for whatever reason, you were literally the first and only person to comment on it for...some reason despite Kagesougi regularly destroying people at an average of 200 damage (for a mere 5 MP) as it is.

Kagesougi would still be pretty damn--arguably too damn--powerful as it without Don't Act, which is why I have a couple of suggestions about what to do about that (if so possible with ease) and a slight tweak to Raven's otherwise excellent Ninjato list.

That can wait though.

From what FFM and I discussed a while back, Druids would have the map-wide Lore skills and abilities that buff/heal monsters and damage monsters. They'd probably be using modified Reis formulae for reference. We discussed moving the Bio spells around (possibly to Wizard), but I have no clue if he's keeping those around at this point.

I see. We'll I suppose it's "good to know" that the Lore spells aren't dying at all, but that still leaves whatever happens to Mad Science, the Bio spells and Tornado & Quake, all of which were actually useful, up in the air. This especially when, again, no one could decide what the hell "should" happen with Monsters and it's been 2+ years without them yet no one's exactly been clamoring about them.

Also, please clarify a "while back".

Also, Wizard doesn't really have room for but one additional spell and even that would only be after Poison got moved to some other class that actually could use it like Time Mage or Oracle. I wouldn't exactly mind them getting Bio (1) though since they could use a faster spell (that actually does damage), though Bio one having 1 CT with its level of potential power always kinda bugged me. CT 2 seems more "fair".

[Dokurider]

I can't get behind adding Undead to Death, it's simply way too much. It's basically Add: Crystal. How about just making Death 1 AoE? The ability to potentially OHKO 2+ units can absolutely reverse the tide of battle.

[The Damned]

(I want to avoid back and forths here where possible since the Balance thread is still open, but....)

Yes, I suppose that AoE 1 Death would be a "better" option even as much I dislike Instant Death, much less AoE Instant Death, since as you say, Undead & Dead is basically Add: Crystal 50% of the time. We already have in the form of Odin after all (and Lava Ball) and I doubt Odin is changing any time soon (unfortunately).

The accuracy would have to drop again though and the MP cost would probably have to go up due to Faith Rod (and Faith UP & Pilgrimage). At least at AoE 1 though the only resurrection that would tell it to screw off would be Fairy rather than literally every form of resurrection.