Stop calling Final Fantasy XII a bad game

[Archael]

there's other things besides hideous characters in FF7 outside of battle... have you taken a look at FF7's backrounds?? (yes, outside of battle)

Yes, I have. I've also seen how badly they clash with the out of battle characters models, which ruin the moment. You only see those backgrounds occasionally, but you are always looking at those models.

the clash is very bad

I still think FF7 is the better game though

[formerdeathcorps]

Without any regard to whether VII is or is not better than X (since I didn't finish VII and didn't play X), Arch's right in his argument about design.  Bad quality or misplaced visuals are annoying, but bad storytelling and mechanics kill games (for a JRPG).  I mean, the very appeal of many older games to people like us today is hardly the graphics quality, but the storyline/balance/difficulty considerations that today's games lack precisely because they prioritize graphics (among many other reasons).

[RavenOfRazgriz]

For the people who are bitching about FFVII having some really shit graphics (in foresight), I think you need to remember that FFVII is one of the first games on that generation's consoles, and as such the graphics ARE going to suck because most designers were just beginning to work with that console's ability to render 3D.

Super Mario 64, in retrospect, is really also nothing but a bunch of squares and 'gons, but we don't hate on it for that, because that look comes from the specific frame of time it was released.

There's a lot of shit to dislike in FF7, and I agree it was overrated, but complaining about the graphics can honestly be chalked up to ignorance at best even if they are fucking ugly and is more or less akin to the people who actually DO only hate it because it spawned fanboys everywhere.





As far as FFX vs FFVII is concerned, I need to barely call it for FFVII.  The Sphere Grid sucked, the voice acting killed baby monkey seals, and like Voldemort outlined the characters seemed to feel far less emotional when otherwise cool plot twists occurred and spoiled the moment.  A bit of polish and characters who made you want to become invested in the story because THEY were invested in the story would've made the game a lot better by itself, because FFX's battle system itself was awesome even if the Sphere Grid blew.  The game had plenty of the raw materials to be good, but at the end of the day it just didn't pull them together satisfactorily for me.  For me, the story of FFX is kind of like the Guardian Force system in FFVIII - a really fucking awesome idea that I found fun as hell when romping through the game as a kid, but it lacked polish and the fact they hadn't put thought into how Junctioning made the magic itself worthless ruined it as a battle system mechanic.  A bit more and they genuinely would've had something great in both respects, but they just fell short.

It also doesn't help that the only characters in FFX I didn't want to murder viciously were Auron and Lulu's breasts.  




FFVII... meh, I actually didn't like the Materia system at all.  It was cool but at the end of the day I just didn't feel it, even as a kid.  Not that I think my characters should be allowed to directly learn magic or any bullshit like that (again, I was fine with merely Drawing it from enemies in FFVIII and needing to keep a stock of them like Items), the system itself just seemed meh.  It doesn't help that, despite some of the scaling like Voldemort mentioned, it really doesn't feel like the game kicks it until high gear until the last third.  Some moments like Aeris dying happen, but it feels like all the main character development is thrown at once near the end of the game after I've finished looking for it to show up.  That was how I felt on it, but then again the last time I played it was several years ago, and my save file glitched so that I couldn't spawn Diamond Weapon and finish the last segment of the game, which was upsetting.  I'd still call it more enjoyable than 10 since more of the characters are likable, actually care about their own stories enough to make you care in most cases, etc., and oftentimes you can forgive flaws like graphics and even a battle system you don't entirely like as long as the characters are worthwhile and the storytelling is at least mostly good.

[Vanya]

How can you guys say the Characters in X feel far less emotional?
Are we for getting the relationship between Tidus and Yuna? You can't honestly say that once Tidus finds out that it's her destiny to die in the casting of the final summon that it didn't evoke some pretty significant emotion. And then even more so when Tidus finds a way to save Yuna, then only to discover that he doesn't even exist in the first place.  That had a really profound effect on Tidus. It was a jarring reality that forced him to change his world view right then and there. It would be like finding out you here in reality are going to die.
Then there's all the back story you get about Tidus' old man. They did a great job of showing how he really loved his son despite his harsh words and neglect.
And Auron is already dead for gods' sake. The man felt such a sense of duty and regret that he literally ignored his own death to fulfill a promise to a friend.

While I'll admit there are some good emotional scenes in 7, the character growth just isn't there. Except for Cloud everyone is mostly the same as in the beginning. Cloud does all of his character growth for the most part in flashbacks of things that happened before the game ever began. He decides to become a SOLDIER as a kid, he kills the mighty Sephiroth as a young man, and then the experiments turn him into a dick. And he's slightly less a dick at the end of everything. Fuck, we all saw Advent Children. He doesn't stop being a dick until the end of THAT. Aerith, Tifa, Barett, Cait Sith, Yufi, & Vincent barely evolve at all during the game. (Incidentally, I think Crisis Core was a vastly superior game than 7 in the character development and emotion side of things.)  I don't know how you guys aren't seeing the significant changes in Tidus outlook on life during the course of the game. Yuna also does some considerable growing up. To a lesser degree you get to see some ok character development in Wakka, Auron and Khimari. Lulu is definitely just eye candy. She was definitely the weakest link in X, though.

As far as game play I enjoyed X more because of the more strategic nature of the combat. The sphere grid was meh, but at least I didn't have to spend ages leveling up materia. I always preferred having a job system anyway.

On the subject of graphics. I really don't give a rat's ass. I don't play RPGs for the visuals.

Now I'd like to point out that we're arguing the merits of two games in the FF series that actually have a connection to each other as opposed to the rest of the series. Kinda ironic.

My final word on the matter is that I think X > 7 as far as story telling, character development, and game play. 7 > X in setting and exploration. That's my opinion anyway.
And 4+6 > 1+2+3+5+7+8+9+10+12.

EDIT: And 12 still should have been packaged as a FFT spin off.

[Pickle Girl Fanboy]

FF7 World = Texas during G. W. Bush governer or USA (or world?) with G. W. Bush as president.
Shinra = Enron/Halliburnton/Blackwater
Reeve = Colin Powell
Heideigger = Dick Cheney
Rufus = ????  If he had a cowboy hat and he pretended to be a retard, he could be GW...
Pres. Shinra = Bush Sr?
Sephiroth = ????
Palmer = Rove (they look alike, and they both seem fucking gay)
Scarlet = Condi?  Kya Kya Khya!
Turks = ????

[Vanya]

lol

[Bastard Poetry]

In writing, there are a number of storytelling devices that are considered serious no-nos.

Ending a story with.. "And I woke up to realize it was just a dream."

Revealing that the antagonist was god all along, (followed by a fight scene.. ha!)

And when you build up these literary offenses around extreme cliches (the father-son relationship, in every way it was presented, a love story that ends in heroic sacrifice, a dead end pilgrimage, a warrior with shame, etc), and combine that with some of the worst dialogue and voice acting ever, it only gets worse.

I get that some of you love X, but honestly, from a creative writing standpoint, it fails in just about every conceivable way. (Not as much as VIII, though). The "character development" is decent, in the ways you've argued, but only because it's following character models that have been beaten into the ground throughout history to the point where it's actually considered irresponsible to fall back on them, from a writing standpoint.

It's fair to say you prefer the gameplay itself, though.

VII, on the other hand, has brilliant storytelling as the foundation to hold up a cliche house. AVALANCHE vs Shinra vs Crazy Villain with unimaginable power is, every way, as cliche as it gets. However, Hojo, Gast, Jenova, the Nibelheim incident, Zack and Cloud's involvement before, during and after the incident, and Tifa's complex relationship with Cloud are all brilliant. I can't elaborate too much now, because I don't have a lot of time, and I've already elaborated on these over at Gamefaqs recently, but Voldemort's understanding is pretty solid.

XII is, in my opinion, the only FF that has literary quality to its depth and characters. I'm seriously going to have to write an essay on this, so I can just start copy-pasting it in discussions like this. I may do that soon.

[Pickle Girl Fanboy]

So you're saying that FF7 is a poor story, wonderfully told.

[Bastard Poetry]

I'm saying FFVII has an amazing story, with an easily-accessible cliche at the forefront. I'm not sure I'd agree that it was wonderfully told, since so many people (fans and anti-fans alike) only ever focus on the cliche surface when participating in arguments like this.

[Pickle Girl Fanboy]

Hmm...
(remembers some of the dialog in FF7)
Yeah I take that back about the wonderfully told part.  Wonderfully presented maybe.

It was the world that FF7 presented that just destroyed me.   All those people who got post-avatar depression obviously never played video games.

[Archael]

Now I'd like to point out that we're arguing the merits of two games in the FF series that actually have a connection to each other as opposed to the rest of the series. Kinda ironic.

FF7 and FF10 don't have connections with each other.

How can you guys say the Characters in X feel far less emotional?

I didn't say they felt less emotional, I said they weren't developed at all compared to FF7 characters, and are bland as hell. Crying during a cut-scene to show "emotion" doesn't mean the character has been shown to grow over the course of the story, you know?

This is what I said:

I'm not going to get too much into character development because I think we both agree that Cloud changes alot more than Tidus and that Tidus is alot more punk-ass-bitch (as you said) than Cloud ever was. Tidus does change in FF10 I'd say almost as much as Cloud does, but I never got the feeling from Tidus when he finds out his father is within Sin (and when he FINDS OUT HE"S NOT EVEN REAL) as I got from Cloud when he spends some time in the Lifestream, discovers who he is, and that his entire past is a lie. Tidus' reactions are like "wow this sucks" compared to Cloud, who has some truly bizzare scenes with mind-trip dialogue about himself as a person.

Actually, the more I think about it, the less I think you can begin to compare Cloud to Tidus as a main.

In FF7, even the main villain of the game goes through some massive character transformations, which is more than I can say for FF10's villains...

[/size]

While I'll admit there are some good emotional scenes in 7, the character growth just isn't there. Except for Cloud everyone is mostly the same as in the beginning.

You seem to be confusing "good emotional scenes" for character growth. This is also evident in your previous comment quoted above. Please keep in mind that somebody rolling on the floor crying their heart out can still be a character with ZERO growth in a story.

Aerith, Tifa, Barett, Cait Sith, Yufi, & Vincent barely evolve at all during the game.

WHAT.

Each of those characters you mentioned (except Yuffie and maybe Aerith) goes through their own personal revelation story in FF7, and each one is forced to deal with the truth of their past / present / future in ways that obviously impact their character after they do so. Dude, did you play FF7? Are you sure?

Cait Sith - Is forced to admit to the party that his original plan was to betray them, then realizes who the real bad guy is and is incredibly faithful from then on, after nearly getting wtfowned by his own party members for backstabbery.

Barrett - I'm not even going to get into this one. Did the whole side story with Elena + Shinra, KILLING DYNE, Avalanche, and finally Sephiroth completely fly by your head?

Cid - You didn't mention him so I'm going to assume you recall just how much the game goes into his story and how his attitude changes from when he was a failure to when he finally gets his first space ship off the ground. You can even see how his relationship with his wife changes.

Vincent - This one's too obvious and probably has more character growth than anyone else in FF7. What he really is, Lucrecia, Hojo, the experiments, his attitude change about everything, him almost going crazy because of it... Vincent evolves as a character IMMENSELY. So much so that they were able to make an entire game devoted just to continue his story from FF7.

Red 13 - tl;dr

Yuna also does some considerable growing up. To a lesser degree you get to see some ok character development in Wakka, Auron and Khimari. Lulu is definitely just eye candy. She was definitely the weakest link in X, though.

That's BS. The only character growth any of those do is go "Ohhh well looks like we gotta kill Sin now! Let's do it!!! YEAHH BLITZBALL!!!!!" once they find out Yu Yevon is an evil bastard. Kihmari is an exception to that. But Wakka, Tidus, Lulu are definitely NOT. Jesus Christ those characters are horrible.

You can write pages and pages on the history of each of the FF7 cast just from how much FF7 reveals about them and shows their reactions / transformations to those revelations (Read; Red 13, Cloud, Aeris, Vincent, Tifa, Barret, Cid, Cait Sith, sans Yuffie). I don't think you can say the same for FF10's characters, with the exception of maybe Yunalesca, Tidus' father, and Auron - the ONLY characters in FF10 with anything close to the level of depth as FF7's cast.

[Shade]

I won't stop calling it a bad game.

Final Fantasy XII sucks.

Bad things
Political shit story that doesn't  connect our main heroes much. Judges are awsome and are so awsome that they overshadow main characters. The game is WAY too easy. License system is just waste of an time on equipments. HOW THE FUCK CAN'T I GET ENOUGH MONEY AFTER 3 HOURS OF GATHERING MONEY?!?!?!? Music is boring to hear. I have very abusive thing in this game(shall not be mentioned). Battle system is boring. ERYTHING THAT IS MAGIC and ISN'T BUFF MAGIC OR HEALING MAGIC IS USELESS.

Good things
Gambits are make your own AI basicly and IS ONLY FUN PART OF THE GAME WTF!

Gambits = a part of the battle system. Since most of the battle system is about gambits, I don't understand what you are talking about, to the surprise of no one.

Actually, the "Political shit story" does connect with at least Ashe and Basche. They are arguably the main characters. I thought the Judges were forgettable, but the idea of Judges are pretty cool.

Magic, attack magic, would actually still be good end game if it wasn't for the graphical limitations on the PS2. Besides, Magic and statuses becoming useless is a common problem in almost all FFs. Being too easy is a common problem in almost all FFs. Having abusive shortcuts are a common problem in almost all FFs. It's almost like it's SE's design philosophy. FFXII did a good job on making magic and statuses useful for the good part of the game and onward. I would say that FFXII is as hard as FFT. Only easy if you know what you are doing. I don't understand what you are talking about when it comes to License system. My point wasn't that FFXII is a bad game because of the same reasons that most of the modern FFs are bad, my point is that FFXII is not the worst FF game by a long shot. This game is fucking Shakespeare when compared to shit heaps like FF8 and FFX.

90% fighting with gambits and 10% SETTING gambits. I was talking about setting gambits being fun.

WTF! You just said all fucking magic suck in all FF games in the end time??? Ok list of FF games that I have played where magic is usefull during all time(expect magic immune monsters) FF4, FF5, FF7, FF10, FFT.

With gambits and FF12 mist charge(or what ever the name was) makes game too easy. and not using them makes it so alot harder.

I am not talking about shortcuts, I am speaking AI breaking that is easy to find.

FF12 magic is so useless since cause most of the time you can do much as damage and faster, it takes mp that you want to use on healing spells, beccause you don't want buy potions when you are gathering 3 fucking hours to equipment and still not get all of them.

FF10 HAS SO MUCH MORE FUN AND BETTER GAMEPLAY, BETTER MUSIC, I EVEN LIKE THE STORY THAT IS TOLD BETTER THEN FF12 STORY, SO I THINK FF10 STORY IS BETTER! And then when FF12 has bad gameplay mostly and pretty boring story and boring music(expect esper music)

I like more FF8 and FFX-2 more then FF12, cause at least they had good music and better gameplay.

[Vanya]

Now I'd like to point out that we're arguing the merits of two games in the FF series that actually have a connection to each other as opposed to the rest of the series. Kinda ironic.

FF7 and FF10 don't have connections with each other.

FFX-2 makes a clear hint when the character Shinra talks about developing a way to use the Farplane as an energy source.
In the international version he even tries, but the pyreflies turn him into a fiend. That's when the girls have to fight him to turn him back to normal.
The fact that the humans on planet Gaia (ff7) are specifically said to have come from somewhere else are the 'in' Square used to make the connection between the two games. Shinra even speculates that it will take a hundred (or more?) years to perfect a method. In short, FF7 & 10 happen in the same universe, but on different planets and in different time periods. It is inferred that the Al Bhed, Shinra, is the founder of the Shin-ra Corporation from FF7. It is also, thus, inferred that the nature of the Farplane and the Lifestream is similar if not the same.

[Kaijyuu]

I'm not gonna jump into the FF7 vs 10 debate fully, but I will say that I found FF7's story and characters to be the opposite of compelling, whereas in 10 I was at least mildly interested in seeing the ending.


It's like comparing the various (serious) Dracula movies. Yeah some of them approach (but never quite make) halfway decent but in the end they all suck* so why bother debate which is better?

*(of note I actually liked FF5 and 6's story, so it's not a perfect analogy)

[Archael]

FFX-2 makes a clear hint when the character Shinra talks about developing a way to use the Farplane as an energy source. In the international version he even tries, but the pyreflies turn him into a fiend. That's when the girls have to fight him to turn him back to normal.
The fact that the humans on planet Gaia (ff7) are specifically said to have come from somewhere else are the 'in' Square used to make the connection between the two games. Shinra even speculates that it will take a hundred (or more?) years to perfect a method. In short, FF7 & 10 happen in the same universe, but on different planets and in different time periods. It is inferred that the Al Bhed, Shinra, is the founder of the Shin-ra Corporation from FF7. It is also, thus, inferred that the nature of the Farplane and the Lifestream is similar if not the same.

That's not a connection between games, that's called a reference... much like many FF's share with eachother. It's not ACTUALLY Shinra from FF7. It's not ACTUALLY the lifestream- those are just hints they are throwing out there for fans, the game doesn't make any clear connection between the two.

Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross are connected - their storylines are blatantly explained to be part of a whole. FF10 and FF10-2 are connected, yes, but FF7 and FF10? No. FFT10 has references to FF7, much like Vagrant Story has FFT references.

Since you didn't bother to respond to the other 90% of my post about why FF7 > FF10 in character development and story department (arguably two of the most important parts of an RPG) I'll assume you agree with that part.

[Dokurider]

90% fighting with gambits and 10% SETTING gambits. I was talking about setting gambits being fun.

I disagree. The fun comes from seeing those gambits in action.

WTF! You just said all fucking magic suck in all FF games in the end time??? Ok list of FF games that I have played where magic is usefull during all time(expect magic immune monsters) FF4, FF5, FF7, FF10, FFT.

By almost all FF games, I meant most of the modern FFs, and I was referring to attack magic. (7 through 13). Since I've never played IV or V, I'll have to pass on those.

FFVII is a typically example. True, you do use Summons frequently, Knights of the Round Table in particular, but you can only use those a limited times amount of times in battle. But attack magic like Holy, Flare and Ultima are pointless when compared to what Melee can do. What's the point of attack magic doing 9999 damage once when I can equip 2x attack and attack for 9999 damage twice. Or 4x attack and attack for 9999 damage 4 times, and not expend a crapload of MP in the process. I'd rather save my MP for buffing, summoning, or reviving. Let's not even talk about Limit Breaks. And even then, buffing magic falls flat when it comes to monster skill and items. MIghty Guard and White Wind comes to mind. All without no MP cost. And in the grand scheme of things, most of the time, you don't even need to be buffed end game because it's usually overkill, or it won't do you any good. Even going through the game, I rarely buffed myself. It was more productive to keep attacking, and occasionally stop to heal up, then to stop to buff up. Status Magic was a joke. Completely outclassed by Bad Breath.

Attack magic remains pretty useful for a lot longer in FFX then in FF7. Right up until you get the ultimate weapons. Again, what's the point of attack magic when you can just use Quick Strike and Summons and Overdrives(and no, I don't consider FFX summons a type of magic)? But unlike FF7, Buff magic stays useful throughout the game. Status Magic and statuses in general are at least useful for a little while.

You should know that by the endgame, the only magic you'll be using are Time Magic, Magic Sword and maybe Golem Magic when it comes to FFT. I do not consider Math Skill a type of magic, since it has none of the limitations that Magic typically has. Math Skill complete outclasses everything.

With gambits and FF12 mist charge(or what ever the name was) makes game too easy. and not using them makes it so alot harder.

You are wrong. With FF12, I actually had to THINK about what I was bringing into a battle. With most FFs (by that, I mean the modern FFs), I rarely had to change my gear, unless I was upgrading it. All I needed was the most powerful weapons possible to just power right through everything. You can't do that with FF12, unless you've been chaining Dustia. I'd like to see someone just cut their way through a boss like Elder Wyrm without being ridiculously over leveled. FF12 may not be that hard when compared to other non-FF games, but against other FFs? FFXII is much harder than the rest.

I am not talking about shortcuts, I am speaking AI breaking that is easy to find.

Why don't you just come out and say it, because I have no idea what you are talking about. Whatever you're not discussing, it's not going to spoil anyone with access to Gamefaqs.

FF12 magic is so useless since cause most of the time you can do much as damage and faster, it takes mp that you want to use on healing spells, beccause you don't want buy potions when you are gathering 3 fucking hours to equipment and still not get all of them.

Yes, magic is a precious resource, but I've used offensive PLENTY of times. Status Magic is down right necessary (until you get Nipolia [sic]). I was recently playing though FFXII gaining levels in Lhusu Mines against those damned skeletons. Many times, so many will respawn, that I was often in serious danger of being wiped out. If it got that bad, I would just whip out Immobilize and start Don't Move-ing them, so then, I can concentrate on a few, kill them, then finish off the immobile ones with WITH MAGIC. Besides, all you have to do is just move your character around to regain MP, so you can use it in an offensive manner too. The Mist Charge System is blessing, because it allows you to actually use magic.

I will admit that in the really difficult battles, you aren't going to cast offensive magic until you gotten control of the battle. Nevertheless, you are seriously underestimating the usefulness of offensive magic in FFXII. Why waste so much precious MP healing yourself and buffing while fighting enemies with melee, when you can just target them with a spell and pelt them while running away until they are dead? And only lose a little bit of MP in the process?

FF10 HAS SO MUCH MORE FUN AND BETTER GAMEPLAY, BETTER MUSIC,

I HAVE TO DISAGREE, BUT TO EACH OF THEIR OWN.

I EVEN LIKE THE STORY THAT IS TOLD BETTER THEN FF12 STORY, SO I THINK FF10 STORY IS BETTER!

I THINK FFXII HAS A BETTER STORY BECAUSE THE CHARACTERS AREN'T SO INCREDIBLE STOCK AND ACTUALLY HAVE SOME KIND OF SUBTLETY. AND FFX HAS SOME OF THE WORST VOICE ACTING IN RECENT MEMORY, WHILE FFXII HAS SOME OF THE BEST VOICE ACTING IN RECENT MEMORY. AND FRANKLY, I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS GOING ON IN FFXII, BUT I WAS INTERESTED ANYWAYS, RATHER THAN FFX, WHO'S STORY I EASILY UNDERSTOOD, BUT WASN'T INTERESTED IN THE SLIGHTEST. I'D RATHER HAVE A STORY I DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND BUT IS FAR MORE INTERESTING, THEN ONE THAT I UNDERSTAND BUT DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT. /CAPLOCKS

And then when FF12 has bad gameplay mostly and pretty boring story and boring music(expect esper music)

I like more FF8 and FFX-2 more then FF12, cause at least they had good music and better gameplay.

k

[Bastard Poetry]

I'm inclined to ride dokurider's doku.

Thanks for responding to Shade's ignorance and CAPSLOX with everything I wanted to say. Saved me a lot of time!

Fun fact: Balthier references Mark Twain at one point: "Rumors of his/my death were greatly exaggerated."

[The Damned]

That's not a connection between games, that's called a reference... much like many FF's share with eachother. It's not ACTUALLY Shinra from FF7. It's not ACTUALLY the lifestream- those are just hints they are throwing out there for fans, the game doesn't make any clear connection between the two.

Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross are connected - their storylines are blatantly explained to be part of a whole. FF10 and FF10-2 are connected, yes, but FF7 and FF10? No. FFT10 has references to FF7, much like Vagrant Story has FFT references.

Actually, as much as I hate for X(-2) to connect with VII, I vaguely remember that they ARE supposed to be officially connected due to what Vanya said.

It's been a year or two from when I remember hearing that, so I may be wrong (or may have heard wrong, though I don't think so), but I think they're officially connected...for some stupid reason. I'm currently still working on my patch a lot, but I'll try to confirm this if someone doesn't by the end of the week (despite wanting the FFVII vs. FFX talk to just end).

So it isn't like every FF game having a character named Cid.

[Archael]

After reading some info on the ff10 ultimania, I think that FF10 was meant to be a "Sequel" afterall (vaguely though), in the sense that

Shinra of the Gullwings wanted to try and use the material/essence of the Farplane as energy (essentially Mako) of Spira. 1000 years later, Shinra's ancestors, now having moved to the Planet of VII, succeed with mako extraction. that is President Shinra.

I still FF7 is the superior RPG, though, the connection isn't relevant to what I was trying to say.

[Dokurider]

After reading some info on the ff10 ultimania, I think that FF10 was meant to be a "Sequel" afterall (vaguely though), in the sense that

Shinra of the Gullwings wanted to try and use the material/essence of the Farplane as energy (essentially Mako) of Spira. 1000 years later, Shinra's ancestors, now having moved to the Planet of VII, succeed with mako extraction. that is President Shinra.

What?