Stop calling Final Fantasy XII a bad game

[Dokurider]

Final Fantasy XII is my current most favorite non-FFT FF. If I could play FFXII on my computer and it had a game mod, I'd be just as crazy about FFXII as I am about FFT. What I really like about FFXII is the battle system. I love the Gambit system. I love creating setups and then watching the results just unfold in front of me. Like building a machine and watching it run. It makes me giddy, it makes me happy like no other game has made me since FFT.

I really hate it when people say that FFXII sucks because it plays itself. If you've ever played the game for any appreciable amount of time, you'd know that to be false. In fact, FFXII is anything but. You have to setup the gambits, which take a great deal of strategy and planning. And even when you have the gambit optimized perfectly, you have to manage everything. It's like being a manger of a store. Just because you aren't doing everything by yourself, doesn't mean that you are being paid for nothing (please restrain yourselves from anecdotes, thank you). Saying that FFXII is too easy because it plays itself is like saying FFT is too easy because you can give yourself any setup you want. Besides, you can turn the gambits off. Not that you'd really want to. When the battles get really chaotic, you'll be grateful they are there. It would drive me insane doing everything manually, especially in the later battles.

I've struggled trying to understand what people really have against FFXII. Really. My personality constantly leads me to try to understand differing viewpoints on issues (this trait has led me down some questionable paths (see being anti-global warming), but that's another story). Is it because of the way the story's told? Maybe, but not likely or not alot. FFXII has flaws and it's storytelling is one of them. It does things right, but it also does things wrong, which have been pointed time and time again. Penelo's usefulness to the story, the lack of a buildup to a climax, the plot just slowing down as it goes on, the infamous confusion over protagonist(s), the lack of conflict for Vaan, the fact that Fran's story doesn't tie in very well to the overall story. Yes, FFXII has alot of flaws in it's storytelling, but it makes me laugh every time someone says FFXII story sucks then praises some shit heap like FFX in the same breath.

I think the big problem people have with FFXII is that it's nothing like any other Final Fantasy. And, other than FFT, they are correct. It is nothing like any other FF. It's story is complex and subtle, as oppose to being straightforward and blunt like most FFs. Most FFs are about finding out who the bad guy is, then trekking halfway around the world, carving a path of corpses through his army to kick his butt. FFXII, on the other hand is spent trying to unite the various resistances to fight off Archadia. Once you've done that, then you go kick his butt. Perhaps FFXII would have more readily recieved if wasn't a main FF title. What if it was billed as a sequel (technically, it's a prequel, but let's not go there) to FFT? If it was called FFT2, I guarantee you it would be better recieved.

The other major problem people have with this game is, THERE IS SO MUCH EXPOSITION. OH ST. AJORA, DELIVER ME. It is VERY easy to get lost in this sea of dialogue. As much as I like it, the psuedo-shakespearean (forgive my ignorance) language doesn't help. As a result, there is alot of disconnect for people between what's going on and what you are doing. They just don't understand what's going on. I didn't understand what was going on the first time I played through XII. Why am I holding up a rock to absorb the glowing from various glowing stones? Why am I taunting some of the dumbest guards since Metal Gear Solid with some of the gayest dialogue since FFX? Why am I louding announcing "I'M BASCH FON RONSENBURG OF DALMASCA" and "DON'T LISTEN TO ONDORE'S LIES", to random people on the street? Why am I running around in a sea desert genociding desert crab people (okay, that's what I do when I go there)? Why am I running around in the capital city of the enemy playing match the dialogue for people for polished pieces of wood seemingly arbitrarily named "Chops"? Why am I running around in some god forsaken maze without a map? Why am I climbing up a 100 story tower? WHAT AM I DOING? WHAT AM I FIGHTING FOOOOOOOOR!?!

Yeah, FFXII has it's issues, but calling it the worst FF game and give the reasons they give is just simply ignorant. But maybe they are right? FFXII is just so different in so many ways, that maybe it was a bad call to make it a main FF title? Maybe it would have better as an offshoot, like FFT was? People would be just as upset if XV was a dating sim/FPS (a serious video game I have BTW), even if was made perfectly. Nevertheless, XII is a great game, flawed, but great. It's battle system is nothing like any other game out there, and if FFT is any indication, will remain so long into the future.

[Vanya]

I don't think it sucks. I actually like it.
But it has more in common with FFT than with the main FF series.
Better title for it would have been something referencing the Ivalice Alliance directly.

[The Damned]

Personally, I think that making another sequel to FFT would probably have pissed people off more just like how people don't like FFTA, myself included, because it's not actually a sequel to FFT. (Then again, I also dislike FFTA because it's incredibly retarded in a lot of instances.)

It's difficult to say.

That said, coincidentally, I just finally started playing FFXII two days after having it for two years and I'm rather liking it.

Then again, I'm one of those unusual people that likes subtlety and pseudo-Shakespearean things up. It's fun to look up words; I've already learned what a "churl" is.

*shrug*

P.S. Can we all agree that FFVII is the worst, if only because of all the insipid fanboys it's spawned?

[Kaijyuu]

I found the battle system boring. That is all.

[Vanya]

I don't think making another FFT will necessarily piss anyone off.
If they make another and it's a piece of crap like FFTA/2 it probably will.
If FF12 was labeled as part of FFT it wouldn't have hurt it. It is implicitly stated that it is part of FFT anyway as it is part of the Ivalice Alliance project.

My only problem with the game, besides it being numbered, was that it is painfully clear as day what point in the story the original director left Square.
However, over all it was a pretty enjoyable game and I like that they allowed you to play it as a normal FF by turning gambits off.

[philsov]

P.S. Can we all agree that FFVII is the worst, if only because of all the insipid fanboys it's spawned?

Nope.  8 or bust.

[Kaijyuu]

I actually dislike 1 the most.

[Mari]

Mystic Quest was no good to me. =P

[Vanya]

Within the context of the time it was created ff1 is a great game.
I'd probably say FF8 is the worst because of the story. It could have been better, I think if they had given a greater emphasis on the Laguna part of the story and made a final boss with more substance. I find ff7 to be only marginally less flawed than 8.

Mystic Quest was alright for the experiment that it was.

[formerdeathcorps]

A good sequel, with more classes/features than the 1998 game and a storyline equal to FFT's would be welcome.  A OK "sequel" like XII in the same world is all right.  A terrible sequel with terrible battle mechanics AND a faulty storyline would just be a waste of money for all sides involved (FFTA and TA2).

It's not that FFT/older FF fans are picky, but we've seen how games can be made great and we don't want to accept anything less.

[Cheetah]

I love FFXII, it is my favorite, and I say all the reasons why in my playthrough of the International version.

I think all this talk of FFXII or FFXIII even not really lining up with the traditional idea of the FF games and that they shouldn't be in the numbered series is kind of bogus. The entire point of each sequel is to reinvent itself to some extent or another and that is exactly what they do whether you like it or not. If you want to talk about a game that doesn't deserve to be in the main line of games then maybe you should remember FFXI and the upcoming FFXIV, the games that everyone seems to forget even exist when making FF conversation.

Oh and if your only argument for FFVII being lame is that it is so popular (most likely due to its quality) that you wish not to be identified with some of the people who enjoy it as well, then you have some real self esteem issues and illogical drive to prove that you aren't just following popular trend (aka a rebel). Coincidentally, if all you do is go against what everyone else does or beliefs you are just as influenced by popular belief as those who don't just rebel against it.

Apparently insulting FFXII and FFVII makes me rather defensive.

[SolidSnakeDog]

I wish i had a PS2 emulator to try this.
Most PS2 emulator i had was viruses and shit like that. -.-
Man id like to try out this version that    
Cheetah is playing

Anyway i played the US FFXII for quite long. (Bit More that 150 hours)
I don't hate it at all. not my favorite but still high on my list.
Just hated the board that all character can be a jack-of-all-trades. (Making less interesting training characters)
I just love how free you are in this game.(There is more subareas that areas that is related to the story)
 Felt a bit like a MMORPG that you play online. FFXIII is the complete opositive to FFXII if you ask me.

[Archael]

P.S. Can we all agree that FFVII is the worst, if only because of all the insipid fanboys it's spawned?

No

because FF7 has a good story independently of the quality of fanboyism it has spawned

Oh and if your only argument for FFVII being lame is that it is so popular (most likely due to its quality) that you wish not to be identified with some of the people who enjoy it as well, then you have some real self esteem issues and illogical drive to prove that you aren't just following popular trend (aka a rebel). Coincidentally, if all you do is go against what everyone else does or beliefs you are just as influenced by popular belief as those who don't just rebel against it.

^ this

[Dome]

P.S. Can we all agree that FFVII is the worst, if only because of all the insipid fanboys it's spawned?

No

because FF7 has a good story independently of the quality of fanboyism it has spawned

Oh and if your only argument for FFVII being lame is that it is so popular (most likely due to its quality) that you wish not to be identified with some of the people who enjoy it as well, then you have some real self esteem issues and illogical drive to prove that you aren't just following popular trend (aka a rebel). Coincidentally, if all you do is go against what everyone else does or beliefs you are just as influenced by popular belief as those who don't just rebel against it.

^ this

If a game is good, is good even if it has a lot of stupid fanboy
If a game sucks, sucks even if it has lot of fanboy
I completely second this post

[RavenOfRazgriz]

Final Fantasy XII is a bad game, neener neener neener!

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...In seriousness, I probably should play my copy.  I've owned it for years now and never even put it in my PS2 yet.

[Wiegraf]

I am currently playing the game. I am really enjoying it and I think I have seen a lot of connections with Tactics in it. I am trying to beat Judge Ghis and need to learn how to chain quickenings (Its my first playthrough) Basch is awesome XD

[Vanya]

I think all this talk of FFXII or FFXIII even not really lining up with the traditional idea of the FF games and that they shouldn't be in the numbered series is kind of bogus. The entire point of each sequel is to reinvent itself to some extent or another and that is exactly what they do whether you like it or not. If you want to talk about a game that doesn't deserve to be in the main line of games then maybe you should remember FFXI and the upcoming FFXIV, the games that everyone seems to forget even exist when making FF conversation.

I can honestly say that I never forget 11 & 14 in my arguments against certain numbered FF games being included as a main series title.
My argument isn't that the games don't deserve to be in the main series as the idea of a game needing merit to be included is ridiculous.
Here are the games that I think it was a mistake to be given a number to: FF11, FF12, FF13, & FF14

My main issues are with combat systems that are so different they push the game into a different genre. FF11 & 14 are MMORPGs which is vastly different from JRPG. I prefer the games in a series to have at least the same overall kind of game play. This is especially true when you have a situation like FF where the games have no direct story connection or even share a setting. FF13 is like this as well, but in a different way. I would have accepted 13 if it hadn't done away with most of the features common to an average FF. Really, not having towns, not speaking directly to people, and not having any significant control of your party is just inexcusable. There's barely any exploration in it and that's something I expect in any RPG let alone a FF. The battle system at least still involves turns, but not controlling all your characters isn't acceptable. This game has very little in common with FF besides summons and characters that are all but directly recycled from the last 5 games. I include FF12 only because it's story has more to do with FFT than FF. The game play isn't one of my reasons for excluding it only because the gambit system can be ignored in favor of a more traditional style of play. It even shares a lot of elements with FFT like the map style and the Zodiac beasts that replace the summons. It really feels in these instances that Square is just whoring the FF name in order to sell more. It's like with Crystal Chronicles. That series didn't need to have the FF name attached to it. Square acts like a bunch of pussies. It's like they want to make new games to entice new players, but they're too chicken shit to let the game stand on it's own merits so they slap a FF label on it and pray it'll make ppl like the game. When you have an established series ppl have certain expectations about what a sequel should in that series should include. And I don't know about the rest of you, but if I buy a sequel of a game I expect it to have the same stuff in it that made the first one fun to me. And, if it doesn't have those fun elements then I'm left very dissatisfied and disappointed. The sad thing here is that all three of the games I mentioned that are out are good games with their own merits. So really all they accomplished with choosing to include them in the main line of the series is piss off their loyal, established fans. Seriously would there have been significantly fewer sales if they has released 'Final Fantasy Online',  'Final Fantasy Tactics: Ivalice Alliance', 'Final Fantasy: Fabula Nova Crystallis', just plain 'Crystal Chronicles', or by extension 'Final Fantasy Online II'?

[The Damned]

Oh and if your only argument for FFVII being lame is that it is so popular (most likely due to its quality) that you wish not to be identified with some of the people who enjoy it as well, then you have some real self esteem issues and illogical drive to prove that you aren't just following popular trend (aka a rebel). Coincidentally, if all you do is go against what everyone else does or beliefs you are just as influenced by popular belief as those who don't just rebel against it.

If this was directed at me, then I honestly couldn't care less about FF7 being "the worst FF". As annoying as the fanboys are, I hardly have to ever deal with them since I know to avoid them.

Besides, FF7 has a bunch more issues than just being horribly overrated. Ultimately, it's decent, I guess, but it's not nearly as good as most people believe it to be.

And, yeah, FF8 was pretty much a failure after that orphanage scene. Still disappoints the hell out of me.

[Vanya]

I hate Cloud and Squall. Stupid little emo bitches.
They don't grow much during their stories and are uninspiring as leaders.
Cecil, Bartz, Terra, Zidane, and Tidus are a thousand times more interesting than the two whinny punks.

[Archael]

Tidus isn't a whinny punk?

News to me

They don't grow much during their stories

I'd agree that Squall doesn't grow much, but Cloud? holy shit I'd be hard pressed to find other FF characters which go through so many changes as Cloud does

your comment sounds more like anti-fanboyish rage that actual thought out opinions