FFT: ASM'D main info/discussion

[Sephirot24]

I'm all in for new changes... but you better come up with something great for x-bows, 'cause I loved doubleshot =P
Can x-bows have innate Secret Hunt? Is that even possible, or remotely useful/interesting?

Lvl 4 Priest and lvl 4 Wizard sounds about right to me. If you want to go Priest, Wizard, Archer and Knight, then it's lvl3 of each.. but it may be too much and also Archer is totally unrelated to a Blue Mage.

[R999]

Just wanna say I am a huge fan of Quina in FF9. Bad breath is hella amazing and I think it would work well in here too. But...personally I am slightly against the Blue Mage being a standard class. I rather have one special Blue Mage character having a set of powerful monster abilities than having many Blue Mages with subpar monster abilities.

In all honestly, as much as I loved 1.3, some of the stuff just doesn't feel right. What I truly wanted was an extension to FFT, with balance changes, and a difficulty increase. 1.3 made quite many fights dependent on luck, and I always hated stuff like item breaking. I am in for making a actual BETTER FFT than the original, by BETTER not meaning to only raise the difficulty and changing some balance tweaks (Not saying that 1.3 isn't better, it's awesome, it's just it isn't FFT like it was FFT intended by Square). By better I mean as a better game from itself, a better playing experience for majority of players (not just limited to hardcore players).

From a glance I am already liking most if not all of the changes you proposed to make to the game mechanics. So that's good sign. Though you might not want to add too many new things until you get the basic stuff done I'll say. The story battles should be fairly easy to edit through. You can forget about the text changes and stuff like that for now. Prioritize and get out a public beta whenever you feel ready. I am sure many people will be interested.

[Zaen]

Easytype?

Seriously, 1.3 IS a Better FFT. Than the original. The thing is, gaming has gotten WAY TOO EASY. Ever since the transition to 3D, and even a little before that, games basically catered to the casual gamer.

[R999]

Easytype?

Seriously, 1.3 IS a Better FFT. Than the original. The thing is, gaming has gotten WAY TOO EASY. Ever since the transition to 3D, and even a little before that, games basically catered to the casual gamer.

For me (and probably most of us in these forums), it's better than the original. But it's not better by the casual gamer's standards (or, Squarenix's). Not denying that FFT 1.3 isn't more fun, it is a hell lot of fun and has much more offer than the original FFT. What I am hoping for is something just as deep as 1.3 (if not deeper), but a slightly more relaxed, more playable, and less resetting FFT. I believe it is achievable.

[Zenius]

More playable?
1.3 is VERY playable once you're used to it

[R999]

More playable?
1.3 is VERY playable once you're used to it

It is very playable indeed. I never said it wasn't playable If by more playable can mean players can be slightly more relaxed, and if the player can choose to fight some assassination fights without having to resort to total rush strategies, it'll make things a little better. I am pretty sure you know what I am talking about. I am not having trouble with the patch, but at the same time it isn't something I would recommend all of my friends to go play.

How to put it? If I were to play FFT 1.3 again, I think I would have prefer some battles to be slightly different (not necessarily easier, just different. I love majority of the battles in the patch, I just hoped that all of them were like that). Also, easing the difficulty can mean things like giving more JP per action to reduce some JP spill grinding.

[Sephirot24]

You're all taking it on him, poor R999, but you know what he means. It's the exact point of view that leaded to 1.3 Easytype and now to this patch. We are already going that way R999, no need to discuss further.

[philsov]

In all honestly, as much as I loved 1.3, some of the stuff just doesn't feel right... 1.3 made quite many fights dependent on luck, and I always hated stuff like item breaking.

There's no easy way to balance these sorts of things out.  If you can do everything you need to do, without the rng (elemental/weapon/status procs, talk skill, status magic/effects, etc), then what's the purpose of any of those skills?  Why settle for a 54% chance to mimic daravon someone when you can 100% wtfpwn them?  Under 1.3's difficulty scheme, the "random" skills finally have a place because they present an actual reward for the risk.  Are the "random" skills necessary to beat fights in 1.3?  Honestly, no, that's all in your head.  But that's neither here nor there, this is ASM'd.  

We are already going that way R999, no need to discuss further.

^^

[R999]

There's no easy way to balance these sorts of things out.  If you can do everything you need to do, without the rng (elemental/weapon/status procs, talk skill, status magic/effects, etc), then what's the purpose of any of those skills?  Why settle for a 54% chance to mimic daravon someone when you can 100% wtfpwn them?  Under 1.3's difficulty scheme, the "random" skills finally have a place because they present an actual reward for the risk.  Are the "random" skills necessary to beat fights in 1.3?  Honestly, no, that's all in your head.  But that's neither here nor there, this is ASM'd.  

It depends on the context. One example that I can give is for the fight inside Murond Temple, where if your first or second steal attempts fails, then what?. Ideally I would want to take the time to disable them properly and steal off his Chaos Blade, the furthest that i was able to do was burning out all 3 of their mana, and getting one of them to critical status. Even doing that requires a fair bit of luck, for some of their hits to miss.  But I agree that there's no easy way to balance these things out. You are absolutely right about those low success skills being very rewarding. I like to break stats of bosses, for example, and usually the success rates are fairly low. Is it necessary to use those skills to win? No.

But is it necessary to use a full speed rush on the top of Riovanes, making sure every hit actually hits? Yes. Is it possible to win the Genji equipments if Celia and Lede were to never get in for Hamedo to proc? It's very hard. Not impossible but there will be a lot of resets. They are hard to balance out I completely understand that. Hence forth I was never complaining.

[Sephirot24]

R999, take into account that optional stuff doesn't necessarily have to be medium/hard difficulty. You don't need Genji equipment or Chaos Blade to beat the game; therefore, to get those items it seems kinda obvious that you're gonna have to get past something more challenging that just winning the fight normally.

[R999]

@Sephirot24, those just happen to be a few battles where there were some rare equipment (although, very desirable to the point where I'd assume that it was intended for players to take the stealing challenge). We can neglect some of these battles, even the one on Rooftop Riovanes.

Consider the last Wiegraf battle where he has the ability to 1 hit KO you, or 1 hit Death Sentence (basically same thing) you? Was it intended for the player to wear a Judo outfit (prevent KO, and obviously, no access to Angel Rings at that point of the game, either that or one or the other)? As far as I could remember it, I was only able to nab two of these equipments during my playthrough up to that point. What if I had forgotten to steal these equipments then what? The Wiegraf battle would have become nothing more than playing with a slot machine. Yes, you are going to tell me that I don't need the Judo outfit to win this fight. Possibly indeed, that is exactly what I did -- I won that fight with a setup that favors fighting Velius instead. Knowingly, I resetted over 15 times just so I don't get one shotted by Wiegraf. So this is definitely possible, but should such a fight be designed like so? If the developers really intended the fight to require Ramza wearing anti-KO armor (which cannot be bought in shops until you are much higher levelled than you are suppose to), why not actually make Wiegraf's Crush Punch inflict at 100% KO instead of this slot machine bullshit?  Surely, I am positive that there must be better ways to design such a challenge, one that becomes equally (if not more) rewarding while not being so luck reliant on the player's side. Less frustration, less resets gives a better enjoyable gaming experience. That's my opinion. You are free to disagree, of course.

[Samuraiblackbelt]

it forces you to get creative.

[Sephirot24]

IIRC Judo outfit (and Chameleon Robe?) are purchasable before entering Riovanes.

Besides I'm sure there's a lot of different strategies like Tanking (the one I did), evading with Abandon + Mantle + Shield, Speed save abuse, stat breaks? ... etc etc

Don't turn this into a 1.3 discussion.

[Dokurider]

@Sephirot24, those just happen to be a few battles where there were some rare equipment (although, very desirable to the point where I'd assume that it was intended for players to take the stealing challenge). We can neglect some of these battles, even the one on Rooftop Riovanes.

Consider the last Wiegraf battle where he has the ability to 1 hit KO you, or 1 hit Death Sentence (basically same thing) you? Was it intended for the player to wear a Judo outfit (prevent KO, and obviously, no access to Angel Rings at that point of the game, either that or one or the other)? As far as I could remember it, I was only able to nab two of these equipments during my playthrough up to that point. What if I had forgotten to steal these equipments then what? The Wiegraf battle would have become nothing more than playing with a slot machine. Yes, you are going to tell me that I don't need the Judo outfit to win this fight. Possibly indeed, that is exactly what I did -- I won that fight with a setup that favors fighting Velius instead. Knowingly, I resetted over 15 times just so I don't get one shotted by Wiegraf. So this is definitely possible, but should such a fight be designed like so? If the developers really intended the fight to require Ramza wearing anti-KO armor (which cannot be bought in shops until you are much higher levelled than you are suppose to), why not actually make Wiegraf's Crush Punch inflict at 100% KO instead of this slot machine bullshit?  Surely, I am positive that there must be better ways to design such a challenge, one that becomes equally (if not more) rewarding while not being so luck reliant on the player's side. Less frustration, less resets gives a better enjoyable gaming experience. That's my opinion. You are free to disagree, of course.

You forget that Wiegraf's swordskills are evadable. You don't need to prevent OHKO if he can't even hit you to begin with. And the times that it does, it's only a 25% chance. Hardly what I consider a "slot machine". When I fought Wiegraf, I was pimping Elf Mantle and Light Robe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sk3A0qsMI0

(Part 2 in case you care:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0Qqu6N8DmI)

Suddenly, this battle is strongly in my favor. I get to just sit around and accumulate until I can nearly one-shot him, and there is little Wiegraf can do about it. I ended up being so strong, I one-shotted Velius' demon buddies with SPIN FIST. I only had to reset once for this fight. Not what I would call a frustrating experience.

[R999]

You forget that Wiegraf's swordskills are evadable. You don't need to prevent OHKO if he can't even hit you to begin with. And the times that it does, it's only a 25% chance. Hardly what I consider a "slot machine". When I fought Wiegraf, I was pimping Elf Mantle and Light Robe.

Consider yourself lucky, I had the exact same setup (with Elf Mantle and Abandon) before switching over to Damage Split (needed it to survive Velius). I have already stated my opinion. The part where you say "25% is hardly a slot machine" I disagree. Because (imo) it is (I have been killed in the first turn (with Elf Mantle + Abandon), which is much less frustrating than getting killed in the 8th turn). Whether or not that is intentional, you decide. What really amuses me is how the second part of the fight (Velius) is so much more fun and easier (now is that intentional too?) because I don't get one shotted.

edit: Wanted to add 2 things.
1) I haven't tried using Accumulate here. That's one epic way to own Wiegraf! (thanks Dokurider)
2) I can't remember what items were in the shops at my level, they didn't have immune to KO. I only found out about the Judo clothes later on.

I promise myself to not talk about 1.3 here anymore. Thanks for your responses.

[Dokurider]

The part where you say "25% is hardly a slot machine" I disagree. Because it is

Well you're wrong. Because I said so.

[R999]

The part where you say "25% is hardly a slot machine" I disagree. Because it is

Well you're wrong. Because I said so.

Okay then. I guess people's opinions can be incorrect in this forum...  
What would you do, if you were say, fighting someone in another game where the enemy has a way to instant kill you, no matter what, but it is a 10% probability?

Just some probability talk here... 25% chance to strike instant kill is pretty high.
Chance for the proc to not happen tin 10 turns is, 0.75^10 = 56%. Chance for proc to not happen in 20 turns is 31%.
With 50% evade you get hit half the time, assuming he does 0 damage, then there's at least a 15%-16% chance for you to die instantly (reset) in the first 20 turns. But it doesn't really matter because, no matter how far you have come to, you still die instantly if luck isn't on your side. I am not saying that this particular battle should change for 1.3. No. Just I, on a personal level, prefer it to be different.


Now let's talk about ASM'D!

[Zenius]

I can't wait for this to be completed o.O

[Gotwald]

This game favors the defensive player? I can't wait!

[Smitson]

@Sephirot24, those just happen to be a few battles where there were some rare equipment (although, very desirable to the point where I'd assume that it was intended for players to take the stealing challenge). We can neglect some of these battles, even the one on Rooftop Riovanes.

Consider the last Wiegraf battle where he has the ability to 1 hit KO you, or 1 hit Death Sentence (basically same thing) you? Was it intended for the player to wear a Judo outfit (prevent KO, and obviously, no access to Angel Rings at that point of the game, either that or one or the other)? As far as I could remember it, I was only able to nab two of these equipments during my playthrough up to that point. What if I had forgotten to steal these equipments then what? The Wiegraf battle would have become nothing more than playing with a slot machine. Yes, you are going to tell me that I don't need the Judo outfit to win this fight. Possibly indeed, that is exactly what I did -- I won that fight with a setup that favors fighting Velius instead. Knowingly, I resetted over 15 times just so I don't get one shotted by Wiegraf. So this is definitely possible, but should such a fight be designed like so? If the developers really intended the fight to require Ramza wearing anti-KO armor (which cannot be bought in shops until you are much higher levelled than you are suppose to), why not actually make Wiegraf's Crush Punch inflict at 100% KO instead of this slot machine bullshit?  Surely, I am positive that there must be better ways to design such a challenge, one that becomes equally (if not more) rewarding while not being so luck reliant on the player's side. Less frustration, less resets gives a better enjoyable gaming experience. That's my opinion. You are free to disagree, of course.

Hey let me sum this up. You suck balls at FFT. That is all.