Final Fantasy Hacktics

Thieves should be able to equip guns.

And the justification for Thieves being able to equip guns would be...? It's not like these things are pistols, so I'm legitimately curious.

Quote from: "The Damned"And the justification for Thieves being able to equip guns would be...? It's not like these things are pistols, so I'm legitimately curious.

Aren't they pistols?

Thieves are more likely to be carrying pistols than Knives. Thieves are stereotyped with knives only in the FFT series. How many times do you see a thieve hold a store at knife point?

Wouldn't hurt to change it up a bit and try something new.

I think only the Blast Gun or something is a pistol. Like with everything else, it'd been months since I've looked at the sprites of...anything, much less the weapons. That said, the guns in this game tend to be more like shotguns or rifles than pistols.

Also, you'd be surprised what people can hold up a store with and have, but that's not really a valid point of comparison for justifying things anyway, so let's drop that argument please.

I'm all for listening to (most) possible changes, but considering that no one has even tested out the last couple of rounds of changes, that Thieves' changes really have been tested that much as it is and that Guns are still kind of a big deal for classes to have innately even with Projectile Guard means that it should warrant some caution.

Still, I could have asked a better question: Why do you think that Thieves need Guns enough for you to suggest that they do?

Also, think thieves of this time period... a gun would be very counter-productive, as it was all about stealth. So... nix!

Quote from: "The Damned"I think only the Blast Gun or something is a pistol. Like with everything else, it'd been months since I've looked at the sprites of...anything, much less the weapons. That said, the guns in this game tend to be more like shotguns or rifles than pistols.

Also, you'd be surprised what people can hold up a store with and have, but that's not really a valid point of comparison for justifying things anyway, so let's drop that argument please.

I'm all for listening to (most) possible changes, but considering that no one has even tested out the last couple of rounds of changes, that Thieves' changes really have been tested that much as it is and that Guns are still kind of a big deal for classes to have innately even with Projectile Guard means that it should warrant some caution.

Still, I could have asked a better question: Why do you think that Thieves need Guns enough for you to suggest that they do?

I never considered it an argument. I just gave a suggestion, that really didn't deserve any justification. I thought it would be cool to give thieves a gun, so I posted it. After all, it is a forum, and we are here to help.

P.S. Sorry for posting; I'm not very in depth when it comes to formulas and stuff like that.

No need to apologize for suggesting something. I knew it was a suggestion; I was just wondering why you thought that it should be that way or why you thought Thieves might need Guns.

I suppose I should try to refrain from using "argument" so casually in the future since I tend to use it in the neutral "logical argument" sense and keep forgetting that it carries negative connotations of anger and such to most people.

Tables updated to match BETA124.

I see by the changelog that bards and dancers have regained Cheer Song and Slow Dance, is there any particular reason for this? I ask because song/dance is still currently mimeable correct? permament +/- speed has a huge effect, since the ONLY way to counter it is by running the same thing yourself. The same goes for all the stat beaks, actually, its just that speed has a much larger effect per pont of increase/decrease.

I'm not sure what to do about this though, +/- speed can be easily changed to haste/slow status, (Speed save is still a problem for now though) but +/- PA/MA is a trickier matter (Not as much of a priority though, since it mostly only affects the unit's ability to deal damage, and there are plenty of unit builds that are perfectly viable even with PA/MA both reduced to 1).

In my dream world, Berserk, Faith and Innocent status would all behave like the Chicken status, in that they are triggered by going above/below certain brave/faith thresholds and your brave/faith is restored/depleted every turn until you return to that theshold (at which point the status terminates). I'd also make it so that both brave and faith are capped at +/- 50% damage dealt/recieved. For faith, this actually makes more sense then the current model, where you can become immune to a REAL TANGIBLE EFFECT by not believing it it.

I brought back Cheer Song/Slow Dance to see how much it affected the game. It is a powerful ability, yes, but it would take a while to see the effects, just like Speed Save. Right now, I much prefer Lore + Mime + Speed Save anyway. 70% to trigger compared to 50%. I am pretty worried about Slow Dance though.

And you can keep dreaming about those statii, it won't happen any time soon =p.

Quote from: "FFMaster"I much prefer Lore + Mime + Speed Save anyway.

But mime can counter with counter flood now, and kill the lore user, making this tactic alot riskier then 3 mime's and slow dance, or cheer song

I say lower Cheer Song and Slow Dance to 25% hit

Agreed, but sadly we need to wait next version.

Yay at Mimes getting Counter Flood and Draw Out being M. Evadable. (I'm guessing we can't make Geomancy M. Evadable, though, right?)

Boo at not getting to test Half Absorb and Cheer Song & Slow Dance returning.

Quote from: "Skip Sandwich"In my dream world, Berserk, Faith and Innocent status would all behave like the Chicken status, in that they are triggered by going above/below certain brave/faith thresholds and your brave/faith is restored/depleted every turn until you return to that theshold (at which point the status terminates). I'd also make it so that both brave and faith are capped at +/- 50% damage dealt/recieved. For faith, this actually makes more sense then the current model, where you can become immune to a REAL TANGIBLE EFFECT by not believing it it.

Wow, it is really eerie how much we think alike on certain things.

Well, I guess since Skip already addressed everything else I was going to address, there's nothing more to stay here with regards to version 124.

Quote from: "The Damned"No need to apologize for suggesting something. I knew it was a suggestion; I was just wondering why you thought that it should be that way or why you thought Thieves might need Guns.

I suppose I should try to refrain from using "argument" so casually in the future since I tend to use it in the neutral "logical argument" sense and keep forgetting that it carries negative connotations of anger and such to most people.

No worries. XD

Is Steal Heart unisex?  It seems to still be opposite sex only.
Unrelatedly, I think handbags are using the axe formula, I am getting beastly damage.

Bags have always used axe formula.

Also, I thought Steal Heart was made no sex? It's probably just the AI.

Yeah, seems I forgot to save the fftpatch when I did the quick change for Steal Heart. And yes, bags use the Axe formula. I may nerf them a bit more though.

Expect a new patch to fix these problems + Speed Song/Dance in a few hours.

As people have seen a a little while ago, pokeytax managed to pull out 70% Charms by maximising MA and using the MA*2+X formula really well. However we can actually increase it even more.

For example, if we used MAUP, it would easily break the 80% hit rate, and maybe break 85%. PX calculated that the max so far is 91% at neutral compat. Even worse, stuff like Mimic Daravon, Blackmail(1.3's Threaten) and a bunch of other skills will have this effect as well. Faith based hit% spells do not get as big an improvement, but it is still there. Now, what should be done?

Here are a couple things I can think of:
- Change hit% formula back to MA*X
- Reduce the X for those spells
- Leave things as they are(too early to say whether it is too powerful)

I think without question it is too powerful, leaving the last option not really an option. Without a X value, Charm with max equipment and mau would then hit 56% on neutral compatibility. That could be used as a baseline to determine how much of a X those status spells that use MA*2 + X should have. I would rather not have the first option and keep ma as a more important factor in the faith based status spells.