FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread

[Barren]

So no go on my faith gun idea?

[Gaignun]

I'm for it if it has a low proc rate (33%).  It will make for a nice, reliable counter to 40 Brave 40 Faith teams.

FFMaster has the final say, of course.  FFMaster: would you mind throwing together a list of changes you'll go ahead with in 1.39 before actually going ahead with them?  A lot of propositions were tossed around in the "1.39 changes" thread, so there will need to be some pruning.  If you'd like assistance, I can maintain a list of changes featuring hard numbers so people can look at them and ask for tweaks. 

[Barren]

I personally don't mind the proc rate being low as long as its implemented. But like you say, FFM is the judge

[Dokurider]

Just so that it doesn't go without being said: Dance/Sing are incorrectly flagged for Silence and thus should be remedied (not by making Silence effect Song/Dance, you dummies).

EDIT: Also, Air Knife is procing Darkness *and* Silence. As in Blizzard's proc. wtf ffm?

[The Damned]

(I knew I was seeing the chance to cause Silence there at times. I'm beginning to wonder if the "problem" that [I think] Repel Knife is experiencing is caused by the proc hack that FFMaster is using, especially since I don't know if that's what's causing problems with Bow Gun & Shieldrender.)

Oh, so Dance & Sing are flagged for Silence? I was wondering why the AI was suddenly trying to use Silence Song to stop them. Hunh.

Anyway, while there's still been next to no feedback about my proposal for Talk Skill overall aside from splitting up Refute, the video I just posted of reinoe vs. DarkxFatal shows that the AI will use Preach. Now, whether it will use Preach and then be able to actually do something with it...yeah....

With that proved multiple times in go through makes me think that, for now, Preach & Solution/Reject are fine to stay around for now, especially if the healing Bag idea goes through. That still does nothing to solve Persuade's disuse though.

Anyway, some other things that have been bugging that I otherwise forgot to mention or having harped enough:


1. Quake & Tornado go back to being CT 3: IIRC, we made them quicker because they couldn't compete with Summon Magic...back when all of Summon Magic was unavoidable. Right now, for the amount of damage it does and the AoE it has, it's a bit much to be that quick even without Short Charge. Admittedly, this, like many things related to Lore, may be somewhat skewed by Scholar's somewhat busted stats and the issue with Golden Hairpin doing too much, but I don't think it's that much to ask. I'm even tempted to ask that they reduced from MA*9 to MA*8, but, meh. Baby steps.


2. Battle Song & Magic Song: I still don't see why these got an increase of 16% when they were already cheap and pretty much nothing can be done to stop them. They seemed fine at 50% and even if Monk skills also shouldn't be quadratic anymore come 139, I'm not really sure why these should stay at 66%.


3. Coral Sword's proc goes up to 50%: Because, right now, that sword kind of sucks and I'm not even sure it's proc is working. Besides, the Frog chance off that is only like 10% at best.


4. Reraise either remains instant but unable to target self or gets a small CT boost: Self-explanatory what I'm asking for here. Games get drawn out enough as it is between Dragon Spirit, HP Restore, Cursed Ring and now Phoenix Blade. Being able to Reraise one's self as soon as they get up is...irksome. I'd prefer the former rather than the latter (if Reraise has to stay around at all).


5. ....


I'll actually save the fifth thing for 139 changes thread since I'm going to post there anyway.

[The Damned]

(Ugh. I'm double posting in here even more of late. Well, being gone for at least a week should "fix" that.)

Since I didn't want to continue discussing this in the video thread, I'll reaffirm my stance about Bards & Robes and the other two things.

As said before, I can't support Bards getting Robes, mostly for reasons that other people already pointed out. I'd have to hear what Javelin II would do before I can get behind it, but right now I'm against that as well since Spears are more than fine & getting fixed and, if anything, Jump is slightly overpowered between the ability loophole and its damage potential & sure-hit aspect & invulnerability & nigh flawless AI use; this especially with Quickening around.

I'm behind Nether Guns since I proposed that before you apparently separately proposed it to FFMaster (or he did to you, I'm not sure).

*waits for anyone to commit on the Mediator stuff or anything else above*

[Dokurider]

Oh that's right, I was going to comment on that. Just let me fetch my magic conch...



1. Yes

2. Try asking again

3. Maybe someday

4. Follow that seahorse

[The Damned]

(But I already have a Kingdra! [That's probably starved to death by now like my other biological Pokemon.])

Okay, so before I "really" leave and blah blah, there are two more things that are nagging me that I, of course, forgot about:


1. VALKYRIES sucks: Despite its awesome, it's even more unfair than TIGER which a bunch of people were agreeing was a bad map and arguably more unfair than even END. I'm pointing this out less because it's been problematic and at present more because I find myself surprised it's on Gaignun's "approved" map list when a couple of other maps that seem okay aren't. I don't know. It just occurred to me that it's a worse TIGER, especially since there's no "obvious" way to fix it.


2. Hawk's Eye could probably stand to lose Poison: Considering Hawk's Eye does a crapload of damage, is unavoidable and adds Oil, I don't see why it needs to add Poison as well. It losing access to Poison would help make using Poison Bow attractive now that it's losing WP to Silencer (as it still should). Otherwise, Poison Bow seems like it's going kind of get screwed over, especially since it's "only" 50% versus 100% Poison plus Oil plus built-in Concentrate. ...Yeah.

(For the record, I would still think that Hawk's Eye would need a bit of an MP cost boost even if it lost Poison because I think it's that good. Also for the record, I would also rather like if Kagesougi lost Poison considering it kind of devalues Shuriken, but considering how ambivalent most people were to it losing Don't Act despite Kagesougi's obvious power, I'll cut my losses for now.)

*disappears into the ether...again*

[Dokurider]

Contrary to what the Damned things, Mage Masher's Bizen Boat proc is not 100%, but I think it should be.

[reinoe]

( but considering how ambivalent most people were to it losing Don't Act despite Kagesougi's obvious power, I'll cut my losses for now.)

*disappears into the ether...again*

Several people actually spoke in favor of Kagesougi losing DA.  Since 'sougi procs so many potentially crippling things, especially against mages if they're lucky enough to survive.

[Dokurider]

Yeah, I agree with Kagesougi losing Don't Act over here.

[Reks]

Yeah, I agree with Kagesougi losing Don't Act over here.

Hear hear.

Nothing to add or complain about on my end. Damned and such pretty much hit all the nags I had. Also, like he said concerning my Nanten Thieves team, Jump could use a slight nerf in it's power, at least with spears.

But then again, my Dancers were made to exploit the damage from Jump in that way, and not too many other teams have been made for such, I believe.

[reinoe]

Re: balancing Hidden knife...

How about lowering it's WP to 5?  It still grants pseudo concentrate and I never realized that the 100% hit rate extends to things like the -tons.  Also a ninja dual-wields 2 weapons most of the time.  So while Hidden Knife is granting Concentrate the other the weapon will hit 100% of the time.  A team with two ninja weilding a hidden knife each, and then the other two units have Concentrate.  A team like that would be a little scary.

[Dokurider]

A team like that would still be subject to Blind not to mention a little lacking in the damage department. 8 WP is already pretty low as is.

[Barren]

Here's my question in case no one else has thought of it before: If any of you saw some of my latest videos you'll notice that one of Ahong's team is sporting a Javelin II. Should we allow it for 1.39?

[Dokurider]

If it is allowed into 139, it definitely need a WP drop, because it obviates Dragon Whisker.

[TrueLight]

Maybe we could have Javelin II be Forced 2 Hands. That way, if you wanted a shield you could go with Dragon Whisker instead.

[Dokurider]

Might work, but I'd rather see something more unique than Dragon Whisker + 1 - shield.

Seeing that Mediator might possibly be dropping it's 00 CT effect for a Stop effect come next update, what if we lowered Javelin II's WP and gave it a 25% chance of procing 00 CT?

Of course, we could always just eat it's space and give it to a more deserving/needy item class instead.

[Barren]

Maybe we could have Javelin II be Forced 2 Hands. That way, if you wanted a shield you could go with Dragon Whisker instead.

Funny you said that, because I brought that up when talking to Dokurider on IRC chat

[Dokurider]

Hey so who asked why nobody uses Titan? Because I can explain why.

See, most people will not run an Earth skill unless it has sniping potential, see Kiku and Earth Slash, works into an absorb strategy, Quake and Earth Dragon, or otherwise has a remarkable property. Titan is none of these things. 1+ to Y isn't remarkable by any stretch of the imagination. I'd suggest giving it better range instead.

While the +Y can be useful, see Jumza's Dancer team, I think it would be more useful in general with +Range instead.