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October 28, 2020, 01:36:21 am

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Use of ePSXe before 2.0 is highly discouraged. Mednafen/RetroArch is recommended for playing/testing, pSX is recommended for debugging.


Jobs and Etc. Ideas Proposal Thread

Started by RavenOfRazgriz, September 17, 2012, 06:05:03 pm

Nyzer

October 08, 2019, 10:06:33 am #80 Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 10:43:30 am by Nyzer
Well, the bigger concern is making a reaction skill like that in the first place. Not only is there no such reaction trigger, there's also no such mechanic for stopping a unit's Move mid-walk.

But yes, it would be stupidly broken. Especially as an innate. (Not that innate Reactions even work.) Lots of fields have areas that are only a few panels wide anyway, and you'd basically be able to completely block them off with just one unit.

You ought to be able to make it work anyway; Priests have a 3-4 range on their spells, along with 1-2 extra panels if said spell has area of effect. If your melee unit is directly between the enemy and your priest, that should be able to block them off for a turn. Especially if you have multiple melee units, or make use of chokepoints in the terrain, or take advantage of the CT system that allows your priest to set a spell on the ground, then step back, or to set the spell on your knight before they step forward.

If you really want your Squires to be able to better hinder enemy progress, you'd do better to give them a melee range Slow or Immobilize.

Or, if you actually do have the skill to make up new mechanics, recycle the unused Dark status into something that reduces unit Move by 2 (a status effect that affects a stat seems WAY more viable than an entirely new reaction AFAIK) then give the squires an ability that inflicts that. Maybe turn Counter Tackle into Counter Hinder as well if you also want a reaction out of it; all you need to do is put this skill in Tackle's ability slot.
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
  • Discord username: Nyzer

Stone of Light

Quote from: Nyzer on October 08, 2019, 10:06:33 am
You ought to be able to make it work anyway; Priests have a 3-4 range on their spells, along with 1-2 extra panels if said spell has area of effect. If your melee unit is directly between the enemy and your priest, that should be able to block them off for a turn. Especially if you have multiple melee units, or make use of chokepoints in the terrain, or take advantage of the CT system that allows your priest to set a spell on the ground, then step back, or to set the spell on your knight before they step forward.


Yeah, no doubt I just suck at the game. The battle that really made me think of this was the one with Weigraf at the windmill in Chapter 1. You are sort of forced in a corner there and given l i t t l e room to move your more squishy units away from the action. However, perhaps it was the patch that I was playing with that was really the problem. I don't know that Weigraf had "Stasis Sword" in vanilla.

Quote from: Nyzer on October 08, 2019, 10:06:33 am
If you really want your Squires to be able to better hinder enemy progress, you'd do better to give them a melee range Slow or Immobilize.

Or, if you actually do have the skill to make up new mechanics, recycle the unused Dark status into something that reduces unit Move by 2 (a status effect that affects a stat seems WAY more viable than an entirely new reaction AFAIK) then give the squires an ability that inflicts that. Maybe turn Counter Tackle into Counter Hinder as well if you also want a reaction out of it; all you need to do is put this skill in Tackle's ability slot.


Thanks for the alternatives. I don't currently have the skills necessary to implement new mechanics yet, so I'm thinking applying Slow would be the best way to do it. (Immobilize seems a bit much).
  • Modding version: PSX

RetroTypes

Quote from: Nyzer on October 08, 2019, 10:06:33 am
Or, if you actually do have the skill to make up new mechanics, recycle the unused Dark status into something that reduces unit Move by 2 ([highlight=yellow]a status effect that affects a stat[/highlight] seems WAY more viable than an entirely new reaction AFAIK)


Ok so I was actually planning on doing exactly this to create a not-OP version of Accumulate. Instead of semi-permanently raising PA by 1 and letting it stack, it would inflict an "empowered" status that raises PA by 1 or 2 until the status wears off. Still learning the inner workings of ASM-ing, but glad to hear this is possible and makes sense. I do have a question though: instead of using the Dark status, could I use the "Wall loses all hard-coding" ASM in the Razele.xml that came with the patcher, and then apply another ASM to make it inflict my Empowered status?
  • Modding version: PSX

Nyzer

Whoa, I am NOT a good source for identifying what is and is not possible with ASM. That was a suggestion that seemed simpler than what they originally came up with, but that's all.
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
  • Discord username: Nyzer

yamigata

Not sure if something similar has already been mentioned...

I always thought it would be cool to have a "Witch" job. It would function just like Chemist, but instead of potions, elixirs etc, the items would be poisons, brew/concoction, etc. To avoid the trouble of creating new items into the game, instead existing items would be combined to yield different results.

Perhaps combining a potion with a soft would create a brew that causes petrification. Maybe an Ether combines with a phoenix down to turn the opponent into a chicken. Yada yada....

The effects would be instant and 100% chance to occur (excluding Effect-cancelling gear), but everything would be timed (I think Frog and Stone are usually indefinite).

Combining the items would, of course, consume those items.
  • Modding version: PSX

Nyzer

The biggest barrier to that is making a skillset that uses multiple items. As it is the item skillset is already fairly restrictive with what it can do.
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
  • Discord username: Nyzer

PrometheusBR

I have a suggestion to make the chemist a Supplier character. It would works like this, characters adjacent to him would be granted equip change the the same way monster skill enable monsters an extra skill.
  • Modding version: PSX
  • Discord username: ZeroX

Daizengar

I, unfortunately, have no skill in drawing or coding  :cry: but I do have a great love for all that is FFT. With that I would like to present to you a concept that I have only dreamt of for over 20 years!!

Summon Knights or "Smites" for short
Lore: Every summon in Final Fantasy has been worshiped or revered by one order or another in Ivalice, and these powerful being have decided to bestow their power in a more permanent way on their most loyal subjects. Each summon created a single supreme armor set and matching weapon that takes on the vestige of their form. These set would give immense power to their wielders at a cost to their lives.
Effect: Basically the armors draw power from their  wielders, so the max HP is lost once per turn for a set number in exchange for powering up different aspects of character. This need not be automatic! The player is prompted at the beginning of their first turn on the map to select the number of turns they wish to have their life force drained. I would not exceed 5 turns for the max drain/boost, with each level giving access to new skills and level 5 giving an ultimate skill. Since skills come at a cost to one's life, buying them with JP is significantly low.
Concepts:
Ifrit Knight
Scale armor, red and brown, allowing for agile movements and powerful strikes. Claws or fist weapons. A cross between a monk and a fire-bender!
Unlock: Master Monk; Level 4 Thief; Level 4 Black Mage
Skills (tentative names):
- Fire ball: 4 squares range and ignites enemies
- 1-inch-punch: Knock-back guaranteed
- Dodge: Impossible to be hit by one attack -- long cooldown
- Disengage: Escape being corners or boxed in -- long cooldown
- AOE Fire blast: 4 squares in every direction (3 jump) and ignites enemies
- Fist of Ifrit -- Ultimate (Think Kenshiro from FoTNS)
Shiva Knight
White and blue plate shoulder pads and greaves with light leather covering the rest of the body. Short bow and charms for weapons. A cross between a ranger and a charmer, with an emphasis on freezing stuff and using traps.
Unlock: Master Ranger; Level 3 Dancer or Bard; Level 3 Ninja
Skills (tentative names):
- Ice arrow
- Freeze trap
- Charm trap
- Party protection buff
- AOE Ice Storm
- Trap and Kill -- Ultimate (An ice block encases a single target and an arrow shoots to break it dealing 250% damage)

More later!
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL

Nyzer

Mid-battle spell unlocks are not feasible without major ASM hacks, I'd expect.

Literally the only skill possible in your Ifrit Knight's set would be the one-inch-punch. IDK what the "ignite" status is supposed to be, unless you're talking about an FFTA2 status that I've totally forgotten about.

Traps aren't possible, again unless this is an FFTA2 mechanic I've forgotten about. (Does ring a bell in that case.)

Mastering a job to unlock another job isn't a requirement we can set without ASM hacks that no one has done AFAIK. The WotL jobs don't use normal unlock mechanics.

I don't want to discourage you from coming up with ideas - but I'd say there isn't much of a point in coming up with job ideas that simply can't be used anyways.
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
  • Discord username: Nyzer

Daizengar

@Nyzer Thank you for your comments!

Like I said in the beginning, I have no skill in drawing or coding, so I'm just throwing out ideas as they come to me.

But all the skills can be discussed and rework if the idea of the Summon Knights job is appealing to you! We can always hash-out the details later, but for now, would you, and everyone else, like to hear more?
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL

Nyzer

The problem is that ideas that cannot be used aren't useful at all. An entire job being impossible isn't a "detail to work out later".

You should spend some time playing with the Patcher to understand what's even possible before proposing a huge list of ideas about remaking Jobs (as, aside from the DK hack, we can't add new Jobs to the wheel; they'd have to be special units or replacement jobs only.)
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
  • Discord username: Nyzer

Daizengar

  • Modding version: PSX & WotL

Aeros

Hello. I'm new here. I love the work and dedication you are putting into this game. I didn't know that FFT could be taken so far!! I have no skill in spriting or coding (like @Daizengar, but I have some ideas for some generic jobs and Special jobs as well....


Ever wonder what it would be like if Shin-ra took over Ivalice (If you  haven't, then it looks like I'm the only weirdo here.)? FFT generic jobs get taken over by Soldier here! Six generic jobs to replace or add to the collection of jobs in FF Tactics: The Shin-ra Infantry man, the Turks, Shin-ra Scientists, and 3rd, 2nd, and 1st class Soldiers!

I play the WOTL version of FFT, and don't know the names of every FFT spell or job or ability in the PSX version. Nevertheless, I will try my best to address a subject by the PSX name, along with the PSP version.

Constructive criticism is welcome.

I haven't finished with making every single description for each character and attack, and you re welcome to modify or finish them if you would like to.


You are free to use this idea without my permission, and you can remix or change it however you like.

Alright! Onto the ideas!


Shin-ra Infantry Man
Ability: Battle Tech.
Prerequisites: None
Description: The bulk of Shin-ra's army, the Infantry Man is the first big step into becoming a Soldier.

This class was meant to replace the squire. Shin-ra Infantry Men are obviously meant to be an early game job, but since it more interesting attacks and abilities, and can equip a variety of weapons, you may use them throughout the entirety of the game.

Stat. Growth

HP: Moderate
MP: Low
Attack: Moderate
Defense: Moderate




Equip.

Weapons:  Daggers, Guns, Poles (Closest thing to a baton???)
Head: Hats
Body: Clothing


Attacks

Focus (Wasn't it Accumalate or something in PSX?)
Rush
Potion
Ether
Phoenix Down

Barrage: An attack Balthier can learn in WOTL. Can it work on PSX?


Squat: Exactly like Focus/ Accumalate, but it increases 1+ speed rather than attack. Same animation use.
Description: Squat to increase the unit's focus and speed.  Soldiers do the every day.
JP cost: 300 Range: self     Radius: 1

Dynamite: Pretty much allows the use of throwing bombs early game.
Description: Throw an explosive at the enemy from your inventory.


JP cost: 70

Suppresion: Immobilizes an enemy with a flurry of shots to Immobilize them. It would be cool if the animation of the suppresion is just the Shin-ra soldier attacking over and over again, even after the unit's turn. So basically it's a repeated animation of attacking until the unit's turn comes around again. If you have a whole bunch of infantrymen using suppresion, you could have a fire fight going on. I don't know if that would work well for the device you are playing on however. Would this be possible?
Description: Launch a flurry of attacks onto an opponent, forcing them to not move. Has a small chance of doing damage.

Reactions: Counter Tackle

Support: JP Boost, Defend, Equip Guns, Beastmaster

Move: Move +1, Accrue JP?, Treasure hunter


Scientist
Ability: Research
Description: Crucial for the deveopment of Shin-ra's products, Scientists are dedicated to the research and evolution of Soldier.


Something to replace the Chemist job. The crucial abilities needed for early game were transferred to the Shin-ra Infantry Man. Stuff like Maiden's kiss and golden needle can be substituted by the white mage/priest's Ensuna.

Stat. Growth
HP: Low
MP: High
Attack: Low
Magic: Moderate


Equip.
Weapons: None
Head: Hat
Body: Clothing

Attacks:
Examine:Any opponent that was examined by the Scientists does 30% less damage to that unit.
Description: Studies the opponent's customs and method of attack, and records kt dwn for future use.
JP Cost: 270   Range 3 Radius: 1

Mako up: Increase Mag. Points by 1. Basically like Focus/Accumalate
Description: Infuse one's self with Mako, boosting the unit's magick power.
JP Cost: 300  Range: self. Radius: 1

Lecture: Similar to the Mimic Darvolon  Orator/talker skill. Has the same animation.
Description: Bore the enemy to sleep with long redundant reports about mako levels.
JP Cost: 300   Rang: 3.  Vertical:   3 Radius:   2.  Effect: Sleep

Incubate: puts a ko'd unit into an incubator. The unit will still be KO'd,  and will hav the KO countdown. Once countdown reaches 0 however, the incubator will disappear and th unit will hve full HP, MP, CT set to 100, and all status effects from equipment restored. Sn imcubtor sprite will have to b mde in rder for this thing to work.
Description: Place a fallen ally in an incubator, slowly reviving them.
JP Cost: 450  MP Cost: 8  Range: 1. Vert.  1.  Radius. 1

Rocket Fall: An attack simlar to Reis's Holy Breath, hitting random tiles. For the animation, I imagine using the Grenade monster's Bomblet attack.

Description: Launch multiple missiles in enemy's direction. Not very accurate.
JP Cost: 700 Range: 4.  Radius.  3.    Vert.   3.

Reaction: Mako Frenzy: Raises Magick power by 1. Same animation as Pa save/adrenaline rush.
Description: Consume an overdose of Mako,  getting stronger  in Magick as th battle wages on.
JP Cost: 750     Trigger: HP loss

Status
Safeguard

Curiousity: Whenever hit by a magick spell, the unit with. Curiousity will temporarily learn the spell, and can use it for the remainder of the battle as long as they meet the MP cost. Special character spells do not trigger Curiousity.
JP Cost: 1500

Move set
Accrue exp

Apologies for all the spelling mistakes you may find here. I have the stupidest auto-correct ever. I will try to send my next post on a different device. I will be busy next couple of days, but will be back to finish this thing off. Until then, have a nice day!
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
I have no experience in hacking, but am glad to be of any assistance

DON'T TREAD ON MY FLOWERS

Aeros

That was my first post by the way. Coming up: The Turks and the Soldiers: 3,2, and 1 class!
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
I have no experience in hacking, but am glad to be of any assistance

DON'T TREAD ON MY FLOWERS

Nyzer

Interesting concepts, but much of what you're proposing isn't possible with what's currently out there. You can't have inventory consuming abilities sharing a skillset with regular abilities, and neither Examine nor Incubate are even close to doable with the ASM hacks currently made.

I'll give you the same suggestion I've given someone else in here:

Quote from: Nyzer on May 13, 2020, 11:45:19 amThe problem is that ideas that cannot be used aren't useful at all. An entire job being impossible isn't a "detail to work out later".

You should spend some time playing with the Patcher to understand what's even possible before proposing a huge list of ideas about remaking Jobs (as, aside from the DK hack, we can't add new Jobs to the wheel; they'd have to be special units or replacement jobs only.)
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
  • Discord username: Nyzer

Aeros

I understand @Nyzer. I've already seen some of the things you've done on here like JOT5, and will look into more of the patches here. Thanks for the feedback!
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
I have no experience in hacking, but am glad to be of any assistance

DON'T TREAD ON MY FLOWERS

Aeros

Hello again. Back with more FF7 ideas. These may or may not work,just saying. I am eager to hear your feedback.

Turk
Spycraft
Prerequisites: 3rd Class Soldier Lv. 2
Infantry man Lv. 2

 Turks can replace Archers, since the Archer Job class sucked anyway..

Stat Growth
Low HP
Moderate MP
Moderate Attack
Moderate Magic
High Speed

Equip.
Weapon: Poles, Flails, Ninja Blades, Axes, Katanas, Guns,  Crossbows
Head: Hat
Body: Clothing



Attacks

Arm Shot, Leg Shot, Seal Evil, Shuriken (Ninja's throw ability),
Stop Bracelet (Celia and Lede's {Lettie's??} attack. Immediate KO, but unlike the Assassin's skill, it's not 100% guaranteed to work. Any Melee weapon required. JP Cost: 450

Hide: (Inspired by JOT5). Grants Invisibility/ Transparent. Basically Snake's attack from JOT5. The Turk's version only affects Self however.
Description: Disappear from an enemy's sight to prepare for  a killing strike.
Range: Self    Radius. 1    Effect:    Invisibility/ Transparent    JP Cost: 200   NOW     MP Cost: 5

Silent Shot: Fire at an enemy without triggering the lost of Invisibility/Transparency. The attack is guaranteed to work, but not guaranteed to let you maintain Invisibility/ Transparent Status.
Description: "Slaughter the enemy's forces from the shadows, picking them off one by one."
JP Cost: 200      NOW    No MP Cost

Smoke Bomb: Invisibility for your troops and blindness to the enemy. Use Reis' Holy Breath animation for the smoke?
Description: Hide one's self in a pillar of smoke, becoming invisible and hiding oneself from the enemy.
JP Cost: 800.  Range:Self.   Radius: 3.   Vert.3 Target:Allies and Enemies
Effect: (Ally) Invisibility.    (Enemy). Blind

Air Strike: Not sure if this one would work, since it would require a custom animation. This is basically a summon of a helicopter, flying around and then leaving. I believe you have to replace a summon to have  a new summon, so maybe get rid of Ilfrit.
Description: Call a helicopter from HQ to shower a barrage of bullets upon the enemy.
JP Cost: 300.  Range: 4. Radius. 3.  Vert.  2.  (Enemies). Mp: 24. Speed.15. 

Reactions:
Bullet Dodge:   Dodge projectiles from Guns, bows, and crossbows.
Trigger:  Guns, bows, crossbows.  JP Cost: 400

Overwatch: Not sure if this one can work....  Fire at an enemy after they've finished moving. Not very accurate.
Must equip: Guns, Crossbows. JP Cost: 400. Trigger: Enemy moves

Status set

Equip Axes, Vanish???, Concentration, Equip Crossbows


Soldier 3rd Class
3rd Tech.
Prerequisites: Infantryman. Lvl. 2
Description: While not the most powerful of Soldiers, the 3rd class is significantly more powerful than the common infantryman.
Stat growth.
High HP
Medium MP
High Attack
Medium Magic
Fairly Low speed

Equip.
Weapons:  Swords, Knight swords
Head: Helmet
Armor: Heavy armor

3rd class soldiers to replace knight. They are the exact same thing, just with more attacks

Attacks: 
All knight attacks
Plus....

Air render: Same as the Monk's Aurablast, just better to use with a sword. Use same animation?
Description:  Strike from a distance with an attack that tears the air.
JP Cost:  300. Range: 3.  Vert. 3.   Radius:   1

Rend Courage: Lowers bravery
Description: Antagonize the enemy with wild swordplay, scaring them off.
JP Cost: 350 Range: Weapon's.  Radius:   1

Rend Reputation: Lowers Faith.
Description: Wield a blade with incredible power, impressing the enemy and lowering their Faith in their masters.
JP cost: 350. Range: Weapon's.   Radius:   1

Rend Blessing: Cancels any positive buffs.
Description: Destroy positive buffs granted to the enemy.

Reactions:  Parry, Reflexes?? (Ninja skill)

Status set
Equip heavy armor
You can give the 3rd class soldier or the dragoon Equip shields, but I prefer giving it to the latter.

That's all for this post. I will try to send Second and First class Soldier proposals soon, and I'm thinking of replacing the Thief, Ninja, and Samurai with Wutai troops (IDK what though.) If you guys have any ideas, please PM me
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
I have no experience in hacking, but am glad to be of any assistance

DON'T TREAD ON MY FLOWERS

Nyzer

Quote from: Arthur Rightous on August 01, 2020, 01:42:38 amShuriken (Ninja's throw ability)

I mentioned before that you can't use inventory-consuming skills along with regular skills. In fact, pretty much anything in a skillset that isn't labeled "Default" in the Action Menus tab of FFTP isn't usable with any other skillset.

You really do need to spend some time seeing what's possible by tinkering with FFTP before you propose big ideas involving skills that do things that were never seen before in FFT. Even some things that normally aren't possible (such as the multi-type weapon restricted skills in JotF) are the result of ASM hacks, which you should never, ever assume might/will be made. I follow that principle strongly enough that when the topic came up, I suggested to Elric to go with reusing Sturdy and Adeptness from JotF for the TLW Dark Knight's Support skills rather than hope that HP Boost and Vehemence might be made. After all, I had no idea how long it might take to make such skills, how difficult it would have been. And he certainly seemed to agree, because that's what he went with.

Skills with totally new functions like checking to see if a self status should not be removed while attacking a different target, or using a trigger that nothing else does such as "enemy unit movement", shouldn't be on the table unless you plan to make those ASM hacks yourself.

I don't want to shit on your creativity here. I just want to see it actually go somewhere feasible, rather than running headfirst into a brick wall.
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
  • Discord username: Nyzer

Aeros

Concerning my earlier post...

Shin-ra infantryman: Suppresion wouldn't work, would it?

Scientist: Definitely throw Examine out the window
Taking back what I said about the Scientists not having the Chemist skills. I think the Scientists should keep that.

Incubate must die!!!! (For now.)

Ok. I'm going to go research some patches now.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
I have no experience in hacking, but am glad to be of any assistance

DON'T TREAD ON MY FLOWERS

Aeros

I understand. I'm going to reserch some more before I post again. No problem with the crit: I need it!

I just want to see it actually go somewhere feasible, rather than running headfirst into a brick wall.

Running headfirst into brick walls: it's what I do best at. (See Uribos)
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
I have no experience in hacking, but am glad to be of any assistance

DON'T TREAD ON MY FLOWERS