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FFT: ASM'D main info/discussion

Started by philsov, October 11, 2009, 04:38:12 pm

Sephirot24

October 13, 2009, 01:04:34 pm #40 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Sephirot24
Quoteguns to 6 and bows to 4 sound good?
Yeah, and late game bows would get 5, right? Also, how are you gonna handle the null range of x-bows, bows and guns? Are Harps and books staying the same? (I don't think they need to change...)

QuoteIt doesn't have to be permanent. That's the point of this poll. We can re-introduce the old skills (maybe alter them to +/- 5 Br/Fa instead of 5 raisings and 20 lowerings) since they'll last only in that battle, but the catch is I don't think there's enough free ability space to re-introduce those old skills AND keep the new ones. But I'll see what I can do about talk skill in general... atm negotiate and death sentence aren't seeing much use.
Kill negotiate and Death Sentence then. Also, if you killed all the status restorative items except Remedy and Holy Water, will that do the trick? You can always make those items into "Hero Drink" (+10 Br)  and "Terror Serum" (-10 Br) or whatever, and use the slots of Death Sentence and Negotiate to re-introduce the Fa modifier skills.

philsov

October 13, 2009, 08:59:43 pm #41 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by philsov
QuoteYeah, and late game bows would get 5, right? Also, how are you gonna handle the null range of x-bows, bows and guns? Are Harps and books staying the same? (I don't think they need to change...)

Not concerned with their null range.  Harps/books are staying the same.  Still undecided on 5 range longbows at late game.

QuoteAlso, if you killed all the status restorative items except Remedy and Holy Water, will that do the trick?

Nope.  Item's basically on its own little table.  I can import a very limited number of formula into item (namely, anything which can stand its X and Y value to be zero), but that would only serve to diversify Item itself... which, might be fun to dick around with, but the sort of thing you're proposing is beyond my current capacity.  

Formulas that actually do work with Item:

01 = 1 * WP damage!
02 = WP*WP damage with 25% chance to cast ability/spell (rigging up potion to cast holy is pretty funny when combined with auto-potion!)
03 = WP*WP damage
04 = weak faith-based ice damage
05 = WP*WP damage, 25% chance to inflict status off status table
06 = drain WP*WP damage
07 = Heal WP*WP
09+ = MA% chance to inflict status/quick/ct00/all health but 1/all MP damage (ew)
14 = Golem (with some pretty funky success #'s)
1E/1F = single-target single-hit with truth or untruth formula (quadratic MA!) damage (440 damage from a mage at level 99)
20 = 0 damage, 25% status proc
24 = elemental formula, [PA / 2] * MA damage + status proc
25 = weapon strike
2D = PA * WP, 100% status
31 = [PA/2] * PA damage
32 = PA*3 damage
33 = PA% chance to inflict (ew)
38 = 100% status infliction
3C = Wish (heal 40%, receive 20% damage)
3E = 100% hp-1 damage (OP!)
43 = Shock (max hp - cur hp damage)
44 = damage HP = current MP (kinda cool, imo, but OP for the player at zodiacs)
45 = Climhazard (targets max - current) damage
52 = self descruct (complete with 100% status) -- imagine auto-potion THEN.
60 = truth formula + 6.25% status
63 = SP*WP damage (throw)

Oh, and while I'm biting off far more than I can chew, I'd like to change Dash, and with it... counter tackle!  What could we warp it into...
Just another rebel plotting rebellion.

SilvasRuin

October 14, 2009, 01:47:04 am #42 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by SilvasRuin
Counter Flare for things like Behemoths and Ahrimans that traditionally have some sort of nasty counter.

FFMaster

October 14, 2009, 02:04:34 am #43 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by FFMaster
I can see Concentrate being the Support ability of choice for this. Well, for the physical attackers anyway.

Brave/Faith modding is really strong at 20. A couple of Threatens = useless unit for 10 rounds... maybe at 10, it would be more manageable...

If people want both old and new skills, you could use some of the blank spots for skills, not need to choose one or the other. Just hex edit the animations you want.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
☢ CAUTION CAUTION ☢ CAUTION CAUTION ☢

philsov

October 14, 2009, 11:51:39 am #44 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by philsov
QuoteIf people want both old and new skills, you could use some of the blank spots for skills, not need to choose one or the other. Just hex edit the animations you want.

Well most of the blanks are used for custom skills as is.  There -might- be two blanks atm, else I'll have to cut something/consolidate.  If negotiate and death sentence are going away, that's all the space we need imo!  Though, yes, I was considering 10 Fa/Br +/- per application.

QuoteCounter Flare for things like Behemoths and Ahrimans that traditionally have some sort of nasty counter.

Hm.  A magical-type counter would be kinda cool... I'd prefer it be basic-level for humans, though.  Counter Poison, perhaps...
Just another rebel plotting rebellion.

Skip Sandwich

October 14, 2009, 01:03:28 pm #45 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Skip Sandwich
ideas

-swap dash and throw stone, buff throw stone to behave more like the lore/blue magic spell (light damage + either berserk or confuse, forget which it inficts right now), a physical damage counter plus status infliction in melee and at medium range

-counter spin, when hit, trigger spin fist, an AoE counter could be pretty cool, alternatively, replace with counter summon, that attempts to non-charge  summon odin at the attacker (a reference to the way the odin summon randomly appears in some games to automatically dispatch enemies without you having to personally summon him)

-magic break, if hit while charging a spell, cancel the charging status on self and heal a large amount of hp (possibly 100%?)
"Dave?  Are you there?"
"Yeah.  I can't get you through the cell now."
"You have to talk through the bratwurst from now on. I'm sorry. I didn't know it would do that."
http://www.johndiesattheend.com

Sephirot24

October 14, 2009, 02:20:51 pm #46 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Sephirot24
Counter summon sounds way OP. Magic break looks like it could be highly abusable. Counter throw stone doesn't sound that bad... but confuse and berserk are too good in most situations. Maaaaaaybe if they were 25% procs, but IDK. Counter spin sounds fine, be it 0 height tolerance (1 at most) and hits enemies and allies too. Not bad Skip.

Skip Sandwich

October 14, 2009, 02:43:49 pm #47 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Skip Sandwich
well, stone is a random proc, and only inficts one status, i just don't remember if that status is berserk or confuse. As for the abuseableness of magic break, you have to use TWO actions to achive what a direct healing abiliy could do in one, and if you try and set it up so that you hit multiple casters with say spin fist, you've still used up many unit actions to basicly cast moogle, I don't see magic break as being abusable.
"Dave?  Are you there?"
"Yeah.  I can't get you through the cell now."
"You have to talk through the bratwurst from now on. I'm sorry. I didn't know it would do that."
http://www.johndiesattheend.com

Wasabi

October 14, 2009, 03:55:13 pm #48 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Wasabi
"Stone" inflicted confuse in FFVI. It was physical damage, but giving it Dash's random damage formula is a nifty proposal.

Counter Summon Odin sounds cool for boss battles. If a Gilgamesh boss sprite were made I can imagine him using it. But that's a different discussion under a seemingly different project of FFT.

MiKeMiTchi

October 14, 2009, 08:28:30 pm #49 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by MiKeMiTchi
QuoteJump increase to 3/2 regardless of weapon equipped
Broken/stolen items can be bought back at the fur shop
Defending reduces physical damage by 25%
Wall reduces all damage to 1
Poison/Regen damage/healing effect capped at 999 health
Soldier office can rename anyone
Undead takes 25% damage from Phoenix Down
Equip Xbow = Equip Xbow or Longbow
Equip Gun = equip guns or Robes
Equip Sword = equip swords or Knight sword
Equip axe = equip axes or flails
Potion family now heals %X health (unknown how high, atm)
Remove permanent effects of Br/Fa modication (see poll) + bring back/buff praise/preach/threaten/foxbird/etc
Weapon Guard evade for all (shields/mantles re-adjusted)
Knight swords become PA*WP (ignoring Br)
Axes/Flails get new formula of ((0 + (1..PA)) + PA) * WP. (WP to be adjusted)
Global Class-evade

Love them!
I guess I have to read the whole post..
Jot5 GFX Designer :: Spriter :: Mitchi

philsov

October 15, 2009, 01:11:32 pm #50 Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 03:15:58 pm by philsov
counter throw stone I feel is stepping on counter flood's toes too much, with the light-med damage and 25% status.  Were status a part of this counter I'd prefer it be 100%, which limits it to the lower statuses like blind and poison.  

counter spin fist sounds really awesome.  I'd need to disable the ally-hit aspect of it to make it less of a liability, not to mention axe  potential rape-box tactics.  but awesome nonetheless.  I'll probably go with it, or something very similar.

counter odin sounds too random for tastes. Br% chance for X% chance to kill?

magic break I doubt would see much use.  A counter that cancels your incoming action?

Edit: Initial post updated to include proposed evasion figures.  Shields lost 5% P.Ev, given 5% M.Ev.  Mantles lost about that much.  Weapons are based on class, with axes scaling slightly.  Class evasion a function of armor type and physical ability.  

Edit2:  Proposed changes to Item skillset:
Potion now heals 30 HP or 30% max health, whichever is more
Hi-Pot now heals 60 HP or 30% max health, whichever is more.
X-Pot now heals 100 HP or 30% max health, whichever is more.  

Status-healing items consolidated, Item actually given something offensive(!) to do.

??? - deals [MA/2] * MA damage, non elemental
??? - inflicts target with Poison and Haste
??? - inflicts target with Blind and Regen
??? - inflicts target with Slow and Protect

Though I have no clue how well the AI can cope with them.  Playtesting will be required.

Edit3:

HOLY HELL.  There's a lot of text to wade through for script/event editing :(.
Just another rebel plotting rebellion.

RavenOfRazgriz

October 15, 2009, 02:33:00 pm #51 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by RavenOfRazgriz
I don't like the one that deals damage.  It's an interesting idea but I still feel it Item is already good enough to not need it.

The other three, even though I was initially opposed to them, seem okay since they're very double-edged.  The first one I would say depends a lot on how you're altering Speed growth, though, since a Haste status means far less on lower speed units in terms of how many extra turns they get... an Item giving haste with current 1.3 Speed potential would be silly imo, but I know you said you're lowering Speeds to some degree.  The question is really "how much?", I suppose.

philsov

October 15, 2009, 03:11:50 pm #52 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by philsov
QuoteThe question is really "how much?", I suppose.

Short charge becomes near vital at... around 9 speed/mid chapter 3, correct?  Then speed growths will be altered to hit 8 Sp at level 70 or so with the 100 SPM classes.  Currently that point is level 35, so growths will be halved, or more specifically altered so their effects are halved.  

Note that some spells' CTRs are balanced under the different speed scheme, so some spells may actually get an increase in CTR.  Suimmon magic, I'm looking at you.
Just another rebel plotting rebellion.

RavenOfRazgriz

October 15, 2009, 03:58:21 pm #53 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by RavenOfRazgriz
Quote from: "philsov"
QuoteThe question is really "how much?", I suppose.

Short charge becomes near vital at... around 9 speed/mid chapter 3, correct?  Then speed growths will be altered to hit 8 Sp at level 70 or so with the 100 SPM classes.  Currently that point is level 35, so growths will be halved, or more specifically altered so their effects are halved.  

Note that some spells' CTRs are balanced under the different speed scheme, so some spells may actually get an increase in CTR.  Suimmon magic, I'm looking at you.

My main question now is, what about Daggers / Thief Hat (I would include Secret Clothes, but those are rare enough to leave at Speed +2 I think)?

I remember having a 15 Speed Thief via Two Swords Daggers / Thief Hat / Sprint Shoes before Level 30, when everyone else was around ~8 Speed.

Since you're halving Speed growths, will the amount of items that give bonus Speed points also be reduced to compensate for stuff like the above?

Namely, I'm looking at Daggers / Sasuke Knives / second Thief Hat Speed Point.  I love them in regular 1.3, but in this version with lowered base Speeds, I'd think they may need to go in trade for something else to still keep them good.

Archael

October 15, 2009, 04:23:03 pm #54 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Archael
counter tackle should be - counter throw

where the user counters any attack with throw stone instead of dash, knocking the character back 100%, trigger-abable from range

yeah there's my idea

philsov

October 15, 2009, 04:48:09 pm #55 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by philsov
QuoteI remember having a 15 Speed Thief via Two Swords Daggers / Thief Hat / Sprint Shoes before Level 30, when everyone else was around ~8 Speed.

Lies.  Pure thief (highest sp growth) gets to 10 Sp at level 33.  :p  And thief hat at level 30?  how the hell did you swing that?

either way, yes, it's something that does need to be addressed.  Probably give daggers a 25% for nasty status effect, and make sure to strip the spell edge from it's Don't Act proc (!).  Or prevent them from being dual-weld, despite thematic wtf-ness.  Thief hat will probably be toned down to 1 sp, with more HP to compensate, maybe even shift it's DA/DM immunity over to black hood.  Sasuke knives don't need to be +sp at all imo.  Secret clothes are rare, 2 speed is fine.

Quotecounter tackle should be - counter throw

where the user counters any attack with throw stone instead of dash, knocking the character back 100%, trigger-abable from range

yeah there's my idea

Nah.  Much like counter tackle back when dash was 100% knockback, all it seemed to do was invite another melee attack >_>.
Just another rebel plotting rebellion.

RavenOfRazgriz

October 15, 2009, 05:11:45 pm #56 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by RavenOfRazgriz
Quote from: "philsov"Lies.  Pure thief (highest sp growth) gets to 10 Sp at level 33.  :p  And thief hat at level 30?  how the hell did you swing that?

Might've been low 30s.  It was around Izlude so I don't remember my exact Level.  Or it might've been 14 Speed.  I did that part of the game a good time ago, and all I know is that I was almost literally twice everything's Speed.

Regular 1.3, the guy at the Goland Coal City fight (Mediator) had a Thief Hat, and one of the Ninjas had a pair of Assassin Daggers.

My eyes glistened, everything went red, and the next thing I knew my Thief was the most OP thing in Chapter 3.

Quote from: "philsov"either way, yes, it's something that does need to be addressed.  Probably give daggers a 25% for nasty status effect, and make sure to strip the spell edge from it's Don't Act proc (!).  Or prevent them from being dual-weld, despite thematic wtf-ness.  Thief hat will probably be toned down to 1 sp, with more HP to compensate, maybe even shift it's DA/DM immunity over to black hood.  Sasuke knives don't need to be +sp at all imo.  Secret clothes are rare, 2 speed is fine.

I think Spell Edge is fine, honestly.

Maybe make Daggers ignore evasion + 25% medium Level proc or something?

1 Speed Point, block Don't Move / Don't Act, high HP (about as much as Flash Hat, at least) Thief Hat seems good IMO.  I always though Black Hood should have some kind of effect to it.   Maybe have it half the three basic Elements (Fire, Ice Lightning) to contrast it to Black Robe?

Sasuke Knives need some kind of Proc unless all Ninja Swords are vanilla.  All Ninja Swords being vanilla would be silly, imo, so give it something.  Just not Speed +1.  No clue what, though.

Sephirot24

October 15, 2009, 05:46:18 pm #57 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Sephirot24
I just read the 1st post. I like :P
I'm not so sure about damaging / status items though... mostly about the one that causes damage. I think it's making an already useful skillset too versatile.

Do you have a tentative release date Phil?

philsov

October 15, 2009, 06:44:55 pm #58 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by philsov
QuoteMaybe have it half the three basic Elements (Fire, Ice Lightning) to contrast it to Black Robe?

That's what white robe is for.  :-P

QuoteDo you have a tentative release date Phil?

Thanksgiving/Christmas time.  The event text is a lot to wade through (4 megs of TEXT) and will require a lot of trial and error at least at first to make sure I don't clip text or have a line be half length or something.  On top of that I'm only so witty so I can't barrel through the spoof lest I do too many clichés.  Mechanics I can roll around in all day, but pure text?  Not so much, I have my limits there.

Still open to anyone's (spoof) scene suggestions, btw.

The storyline battles will need a thorough playthrough regarding unit placement/abilities to cope with the new movement/range paradigm to boot.  But on the plus side I'm aware of the battle difficulty so I can ct5holy debug myself through a lot of the battles after I see how the first few rounds work out.

Edit:  I do plan on breaking the 4th wall a few times, but this asmo quote IS making it into the game:

 "It's a pretty shitty idea dude. Play FFT, but with a bunch of no-names from the internet mary-sueing themselves into the game. WOOOO. I can't contain my excitement!"
Just another rebel plotting rebellion.

RavenOfRazgriz

October 15, 2009, 07:05:09 pm #59 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by RavenOfRazgriz
Quote from: "philsov"Edit:  I do plan on breaking the 4th wall a few times, but this asmo quote IS making it into the game:

 "It's a pretty shitty idea dude. Play FFT, but with a bunch of no-names from the internet mary-sueing themselves into the game. WOOOO. I can't contain my excitement!"

Have Agrias say it during her argument with Gafgarion, and rename the entire Lezales team after FFH members.

For the lulz.

I can probably make that into a mock script if I can ass myself to go find exactly how the convo goes originally.