FFT: ASM'D main info/discussion

[iopyud]

Okay, okay how about this:

Make Auto Potion not Brave dependent? Like... fixed at 40%?

[akwikone]

Not possable at this point in time, or possably any.  The only way we can alter reaction abilities is by altering certain skills connected to them, like modifing all of the geomancy and there for having counter flood counter with the altered skills, same with counter tackle, and with auto potion we can only alter the the potion items, we can't change the chances to fire unless we set a standerd brave for every character, and that would screw up part of the beauty of this game, it would also make the fury hack kinda pointless(if we're using it that is)...

[Zaen]

Auto Potion is just too broken for a balancing patch. It's hard to make it balanced without making Item useless.

[SilvasRuin]

That's not true at all.  Imagine throwing a weak rock at an ally to get some quick healing for no mp cost.  Even if Damage Split might heal more against the enemies at the time, triggering it on weak damage can help make up for it.  It doesn't have to be uber to be useful.

[iopyud]

*Glares at Auto Potion*

This isn't over.

[philsov]

Or... eliminate Auto Potion. That forces more strategic reactions...

How is auto potion any more or less strategic than the other reaction abilities?

Isn't there some kind of hack that turns Brave into Fury or something, causing it to act like Faith vs physical attacks?

Yes.  But I have no plans to implement it.  

I admit it's rather cheap that there is no downside to high br (worse move-finds, oh noes), but here's some copy/paste:

The formula added at the end of all calculations is: (40+Caster_Fury)*(40+Target_Fury)*Total_Damage/10000
      Basically 72 BFury will make your hits will be at 112% strength as well as your damage received.

In short, at 60 Br to 60 Br is the same as before.  At 70 to 70, the damage is at 120%.  Heaven forbid TG Cid walking into the picture.  I'd need to rebalance everything, which I have absolutely no desire to do.  It's a pretty cool concept, but too far out in left field for this project.

It's hard to make it balanced without making Item useless

Yeah, it's not like elixirs become farmable once x-potion loses its potency

[Zaen]

Oh.. right. Elixer. Farming.. bleh.

On the fury concept, unarmed Ramza in Mandalia with that 80 Fury is St. Ajoraly, so yeah. Lots of balancing issues with it. Monks become uber, as do Knight Swords and Katanas.

[Skip Sandwich]

yeah, fury doesn't really work with recursive brave values on damage formulas, it's too bad because as a concept, it's pretty awesome

[RavenOfRazgriz]

I admit it's rather cheap that there is no downside to high br (worse move-finds, oh noes), but here's some copy/paste:

The formula added at the end of all calculations is: (40+Caster_Fury)*(40+Target_Fury)*Total_Damage/10000
      Basically 72 BFury will make your hits will be at 112% strength as well as your damage received.

In short, at 60 Br to 60 Br is the same as before.  At 70 to 70, the damage is at 120%.  Heaven forbid TG Cid walking into the picture.  I'd need to rebalance everything, which I have absolutely no desire to do.  It's a pretty cool concept, but too far out in left field for this project.

...Can't you merely alter the 40+ that's used in the formula to something like 30 by altering the hack slightly?

[philsov]

Possibly.  But everything would still need to be rejuggled.  

Seriously:

option 1: Take X damage, have a 70% chance to recover 30% health
option 2: Take 43% less than X damage, have a 40% chance to recover 30% health.

Just waltz in with low brave, defensive setups, and status out the yin-yang (pun intended).

Yes, I'm aware the same situation is present with Faith, but a) from the looks of it, fury stacks WITH faith -- 40 Br and 40 Fa is a turtle and b) the enemy is more stacked towards physical attacks over magic in the first place, so the variation with faith regarding damage taken is less of an issue.

[Skip Sandwich]

yeah, something like having the absolute max varience be +/- 25% for 100 and 0 brave respectively (so 100 on 100 is +50%, and 0 on 0 is -50%). Alternatively, instead of making it all physical attacks, introduce a new ability formula that acts like faith based magic, only working off of PA and relative brave.

[Sephirot24]

Too much hassle for something that we don't need, and most people will never sacrifice 30% chance of some reaction triggering. IMO anyways..

EDIT: OK, how about this: reaction abilities now have (Br+Fa)/2 % chance of triggering. If that were possible, I wouldn't have a problem with this "fury" hack implemented.

Max chance would still be 70 and lowest would still be 40. Still some kind of punishment for using tank units with low Br / Fa, and reward for high Br / Fa ones.

[iopyud]

I know you guys still haven't finished talking about Brave but I have a few items I want to address:

1.) Equip Bow - I heard this will allow you to equip longbows as well? The only reason I use archers is because of their Bow capability. Letting everyone use a Bow will make archers obsolete.

2.) Auto Potion - Yeah, you have a point about that % heal.
How's
Potion = 30 HP
Hi - Pot = 50 HP
X - Pot = 30% HP

A unit with 400 HP will auto pot 120 HP.

3.) Brave - Is it possible to make it "any physical damage + Your own brave value / 2" to punish high Br units instead?
Or maybe you could just give everyone 60 lowest Br and 70 highest Br.

Sorry if my suggestions seem stupid 'cuz I lack FFT coding literacy.

[Aquilae]

Unless you make less reactions Brave-dependent, people are still going to go for high Brave instead of low Brave. The only two reactions that aren't Brave-dependent are Abandon and Weapon Guard, and most of the time they are inferior to the myriad of other reactions based on Brave. Hamedo, Arrow Guard and Auto-Potion are some of the best R-Abilities, and I wouldn't want a 40% activation chanve / evasion bonus.

[Shade]

X-Potion should be able to heal atleast half of hp, that means 50%.
30% is very bad with some that has 300 hp and isn't a armored guy means at the point you are those guys with do 150+ damage to your FACE.

As reaction ability it's ok, but since it would be a normal potion it would suck alot.
Also the fact that most of times you would using the normal auto-potion for the weakest characters, but after that change the weakest characters have to use dragon spirit, hp restore, critical quick, damage split..

so it's seems a kinda bad idea putting 30% only.

[iopyud]

I see.

I was kind of thinking glass cannons wouldn't be so vulnerable since movement has been decreased.

[philsov]

1.) Equip Bow - I heard this will allow you to equip longbows as well? The only reason I use archers is because of their Bow capability. Letting everyone use a Bow will make archers obsolete.

An archer with attack up or concentrate is far better than any other unit with equip bow and a longbow.

30% is very bad with some that has 300 hp and isn't a armored guy means at the point you are those guys with do 150+ damage to your FACE.

You mean you'll actually have to HEAL now?  A reaction ability can't simply NEGATE ALL DAMAGE?!?  It completely dwarves Regenerator and HP restore and that's perfectly fine?!?

No, sorry.  50% is way too good.  If you want that, get damage split.  At least damage split doesn't self-correct.

~

Anyways!  How's about some epic hats?  Armored people get grand helmet and genji, while clothies get black hood, thief hat, and flash hat?  Laaaaame.  Cashua and barette are getting gutted and reshaped~

[RavenOfRazgriz]

You mean you'll actually have to HEAL now?  A reaction ability can't simply NEGATE ALL DAMAGE?!?  It completely dwarves Regenerator and HP restore and that's perfectly fine?!?

I actually think the fact Regenerator and HP Restore exist justifies removing Auto Potion entirely, as instant respectable heal after most attacks is going to dwarf those two in most non-specialized cases, and also dwarf Damage Split a deal of the time as it'll often heal more in situations where HP Restore doesn't get a situational win over Auto Potion anyway.

Does Auto Potion work the way Counter Tackle does in that it references a move (well, in this case, a tree of moves), or is it hard coded to specifically reference Potions or whatever?  If it's the former, I think we have some moves to dick around with.

Anyways!  How's about some epic hats?  Armored people get grand helmet and genji, while clothies get black hood, thief hat, and flash hat?  Laaaaame.  Cashua and barette are getting gutted and reshaped~

Does that mean Ribbons will be easier to get to compensate for lack of Barettes mid-game?

I like the idea.  I've always hated Equips that are just weaker versions of other equips unless they're meant to be early game (Chapter 1-2) items.  Which is why I like how 1.3 addressed later Heavy Armors and Helmets and actually wish they'd gone further down the Armor tree than Circlet / Carabini Mail.  There are many viable clothes, but so few viable armors in comparison unless you count the two rare sets (and even then...).

[philsov]

Does Auto Potion work the way Counter Tackle does in that it references a move (well, in this case, a tree of moves), or is it hard coded to specifically reference Potions or whatever? If it's the former, I think we have some moves to dick around with.

I'm... not seeing a difference between the two.  Warning, completely arbitrary values ahoy.

Counter Tackle is hardcoded towards ability Dash - 5F.  So I make 5F have an AoE ability with spin fist formual (basically, make it spin fist), move 5F from the squire skillset into the monk skillset, and then take the real spin fist (62) to act just like the old dash and no one will know the difference.  When I get around to it and actually input a lot of these changes for pre-lim testing, counter spin fist may still be single target.  I dunno.  But that's the coding process, anyways.

Similarly, auto-potion is hardcoded towards using abilites 78, 79, and 7A (pot, hi pot, x pot), specifically on one's self.  But abilities in that range of code are forced as items, so the wiggle room there is dreadfully small -- I can't just adopt a new ability (cure2 e.g.) and be done with it.  To change the items, that's a function in the Item tab of fftpatcher, where the potions (or any Item) can adopt a new formula, specifically one that can survive with a X or Y value of 0.  I've posted the table twice already in the thread, check it out to so what can be done with Item/auto-potion.

As far as "auto-potion" goes, it can become:

- auto self-heal (x% via asm hack, absolute figure, or 20% via wonky self-wish)
- auto self-status (obviously requires status-inflicting item to be in stock + status-inflicting item is 100% success so can't be something ridiculous or stepping on the toes of other classes.  Auto haste would be cool but a time mage having a consumable reaction?  bleh)

because everything else is either a complete crap shoot (PA% or MA% to do something) or deals damage, neither of which is worthwhile as a reaction.

Does that mean Ribbons will be easier to get to compensate for lack of Barettes mid-game?

What midgame barettes?  The single one the game hands you with alma?  That never got equipped except on a female monk (lol) because monks can't equip a real piece of head armor?  Via poaching, ribbons are available the same time barettes are.

[RavenOfRazgriz]

Similarly, auto-potion is hardcoded towards using abilites 78, 79, and 7A (pot, hi pot, x pot), specifically on one's self.  But abilities in that range of code are forced as items, so the wiggle room there is dreadfully small -- I can't just adopt a new ability (cure2 e.g.) and be done with it.

That's what I was asking, as I don't believe you clarified Auto Potion as being limited to the Item skillset only in terms of switching.

We really need to go beat the shit out of a codemonkey, stuff him in a cave, and make him ASM Auto Potion into something that's not Item-based.

I'd do it myself, but I'm busy enough usually.

What midgame barettes?  The single one the game hands you with alma?  That never got equipped except on a female monk (lol) because monks can't equip a real piece of head armor?  Via poaching, ribbons are available the same time barettes are.

iirc, there's at least one more of them available in 1.3, unless it was removed again for Easytype.  But you're right, it isn't that big a deal,  I suppose.  I never used either of them enough for a loss of a Barette or two to bother me.  But will that mean Alma now comes with a Ribbon, or with one of these new Hats, or some random generic hat?