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PW 2.0 Job Rundown/Ideas (Insight/Feedback Welcome!)

Started by Eternal, August 30, 2014, 09:25:01 pm

Eternal

August 30, 2014, 09:25:01 pm Last Edit: August 31, 2014, 01:01:07 am by Eternal
PW 2.0 will feature mostly returning jobs from PW 1.0, although heavily rebalanced and modified. I had a ton of new jobs planned, but it just felt right sticking with most of the jobs from PW 1.0, so I've decided to build off of those. In the meantime, I want to outline the basics of the generic jobs you'll see in PW 2.0:

FREELANCER:

Skillset: Miscellany
Example Skills: Cure, Fire, Blizzard, Thunder, Throw Stone, Steelguard
Equip: Anything
Innate: Re-equip (Equip Change)

Freelancers are jacks-of-all-trades, capable of equipping any item in the game and are able to use a basic skill from most generic jobs in the game. Their stat growth is low, however, meaning that it's best to come back to them after you've gained levels in other jobs (akin to FFV). Although their skill pool makes them very viable early game, it's their wide array of equipment choices that sets them apart end game.


ALCHEMIST:

Skillset: Items
Example Skills: Potion, Ether, Phoenix Down, Malboro Tentacle, Star Curtain
Equip: Books, Rods, Staves, Hats, Clothing
Innate: Item Lore (Throw Items)

Much like Chemists in Vanilla FFT, Alchemists fulfill the function of using Items for an instant effect in battle. Unlike Vanilla FFT, Items are far more varied this time around, being able to instantly (and accurately) afflict Poison, Protect, Regen, Blind, etc. However, although Items are instant, accurate, and have no MP cost, they're expensive to purchase and lack the AoE that the proper spells have. To that end, their use may vary based on your needs- and your wallet.


SENTINEL:

Skillset: Warding
Example Skills: Steelguard, Protect, Shell, Reflect, Veil, Transfusion, Taunt
Equip: Swords, Knightswords, Shields, Helmets, Heavy Armor
Innate: Defend (Support Skill)

Sentinels are masters of unbreakable defenses, much like in PW 1.0. They still focus on defensive buffs such as Protect, Shell, and Reflect, but now also gain Veil, a new spell that inflicts the Veil status, which removes any debuffs and protects the Veil'd unit from being debuffed. It's a potent, but very costly spell that will find heavy use in PW 2.0's very debuff-heavy gameplay. Sentinels also gain a new form of Enmity- now called Taunt- wherein an adjacent foe is afflicted with Berserk and Immobilize, forcing it to engage the Sentinel (assuming the enemy has a melee weapon). Though Sentinels may have a simple role, in PW 2.0 where revival is difficult, an ounce of prevention is well worth a pound of Cure II or Raise.


SNIPER:

Skillset: Aim
Example Skills: Armor Break, Weapon Break, Helmet Break, Shield Break, Aim: Arm, Aim: Leg
Equip: Bows, Crossbows, Hats, Clothing
Innate: Concentrate

Snipers are by nature masters of ranged combat and crippling the enemy before they even draw near. Much like FFT Arena's Archers, Snipers can rend all manner of gear and affix enemies firmly in place while they continue to be assailed by a barrage of further attacks and debuffs. Unlike PW 1.0's Snipers which focused on snares and traps, PW 2.0's Snipers take a much simpler approach to slaying enemies: breaking all of their shit and rendering them utterly helpless.


BERSERKER:

Skillset: Savagery
Example Skills: Fervor, Hibernate, Throw Stone, Scream, Threaten, Infuriate
Equip: Axes, Hats, Clothing

Berserkers are a very simple, effective job: they crush everything that moves. Beyond that, Berserkers manipulate battle by altering Fury (which still replaces Bravery), with their Infuriate and Intimidate skills. Beyond manipulating Fury, they can also tinker with the Berserk status to bolster themselves or their allies or cripple enemy mages. Axes now have the ability to crush gear upon striking, meaning that the more a Berserker attacks in its fervor, the greater the chance of completely overwhelming the foe.


DEVOUT:
Skillset: Divinity
Example Skills: Cure, Dia, Blind, Preach, Faith, Holy
Equip: Staves, Hats, Robes

Dia Magic Gimmick: Dia/Dia II cannot miss or be evaded, unlike spells from other elemental families.

Devouts are the primary healing job of PW 2.0, but they can equally serve as a potent offensive job. Bearing the ability to smite enemies with accurate ease using Dia Magic, Devouts can rapidly switch between an offensive and defensive paradigm on the fly. For more tactical players, using Blind to cripple units is a viable option, as is using Faith for a quick, potent buff to a mage's damage/accuracy, or Preach to slowly (but permanently for the battle) buff a mage's damage/accuracy. Staves are also of note. In PW 2.0, Staves deal no damage at all. Rather, each Stave inflicts a buff or heals an ally. Keep this in mind: without an Equip: X skill or a way to replenish MP, a lone Devout may prove completely unable to deal any sort of damage.


MAGUS:

Skillset: Impiety
Example Skills: Blizzard, Stone, Poison, Enlighten, Atheist, Shadowflare
Equip: Wands, Hats, Robes

Stone Magic Gimmick: Stone/Stone II deal the most damage out of the eight primary elemental spell families, but is prone to the (now very common) Float buff.

Blizzard Magic Gimmick: Blizzard/Blizzard II cannot harm allies.

The "evil" version of Devouts, Magi use spells that use Unfaith to determine damage. This means that, for a change of pace, a unit with low Faith is more optimal in this magic job than a unit with high Faith. To that end, Magi aren't completely useless against units with high Faith: they can utilize Poison to continually harm units (the formula to cast Poison ignores Faith), and they can also use Enlighten and Atheist in the same manner as Devouts can use Preach and Faith, albeit for the opposite effects, and to strengthen their own magick while weakening the enemy's. Fret not, units of Faith! Wands can hit from afar and can cast a spell upon striking, and these spells tend to work based on high Faith, or ignore Faith altogether, meaning that Faithful units may prefer being tankier Magi and striking with physical Wand strikes.


PSION:

Skillset: Psionics
Example Skills: Fire, Confuse, Sleep, Imperil, Float, Gravity, Empathy
Equip: Flails, Hats, Robes
Innate: Float (status), Teleport

Fire Magic Gimmick: Fire/Fire II have high AoE compared to other families of magic.

Psions carry a variety of gimmicks that can be geared towards many different kinds of play. Psions are masters at chaining skills together for deadly effect, and work well with other kinds of mages. Float can be chained with Gravity to crash an enemy to the ground, cancelling the Float effect and dealing massive damage to the enemy. Likewise, Imperil (which replaces Oil and reduces resistance to each element), can be chained with Fire/Fire II for heavy damage. For those preferring debuffs, Sleep and Confuse can easily turn the tides of battle, or earn time for you to heal and revitalize your party. Empathy is a pricy spell that is best used on heavily armored Psions, or vice versa: Empathy deals damage to the enemy based on the caster's lost HP: a risky spell with potentially huge damage potential. Desperate, MP-less Psions will find that the accurate strikes of Flails can save them in dire straits.


SEER:

Skillset: Judgment
Example Skills: Water, Thunder, Regen, Stun, Meditate
Equip: Wands, Staves, Hats, Robes, Clothing
Innate: Waterwalking

Water Magic Gimmick: Water/Water II consumes less MP than spells of other elemental families- better for early game gameplay.

Thunder Magic Gimmick: Thunder/Thunder II takes less time to charge than spells of other elemental families, making them easier to use against speedier enemies found late game.

Seers are a mixed bag with a variety of useful skills/spells that are geared more towards early game battles (Seers are the first mage job unlocked), but their skills prove useful afterwards, as well. Water and Thunder's gimmicks can be used depending on what situation the user is in, and their gimmicks allow them to give physical jobs (and other jobs with low MP) the opportunity to use magic as well. Meditate is the only way to easily restore MP early in the game, and Regen is universally helpful. Being able to equip both Wands and Staves, Seers can take either an offensive or defensive position depending on what the player prefers.


CORSAIR:

Skillset: Gamble
Example Skills: Coin Toss, Felicity, Lucky 777, Jackpot, Fortuna Major, Gamble
Equip: Knives, Guns, Hats, Clothing

Corsairs are a job solely created for those who enjoy the thrill of unpredictable, wild battles. Corsairs rely on skills that focus on, well, luck. Coin Toss and Felicity deal damage and heal (respectively) either the user or an adjacent target, with potentially devastating or wonderful results. Gamble can inflict a random status (positive or negative) onto a unit for free, and as for the others, well...

-Snake Eyes (Poison or Regen on all units)
-Lady Luck (Innocent or Faith on all units)
-Triple 777 (Slow or Haste on all units)
-Fortuna Major (Curse or Veil on all units)

As you can see, the map-wide Gamble skills all can inflict one of two opposing statuses: basically, you can keep rerolling for the other status, but chances are, the numerical outcome will be the same. Fortuna Major is the exception, in that it's the end-all-be-all of Gamble skills. If Veil lands, every roll from there on is guaranteed to buff the Veil'd unit or do nothing- likewise, if Curse lands, the unit is guaranteed to be debuffed or do nothing.


SCHOLAR:

Skillset: Lore
Example Skills: Aero, Bio, Esuna, Dispel, Frog
Equip: Books, Hats, Robes, Clothing

Aero Magic Gimmick: Aero/Aero II have higher Range than spells of other elemental families.

Bio Magic Gimmick: Bio/Bio II will continually sap an enemy's HP over time, dealing Dark damage over a period of time with a chance to inflict Poison.

Scholars, much like in PW 1.0, are regulators of status effects. Esuna and Dispel are extremely useful and accurate, and their AoE effects will definitely be of use against enemies and crippled allies. Also like PW 1.0, Scholars focus on Aero and Bio magic: Aero being their primary offensive magic, and Bio to steadily cripple an enemy. Unlike PW 1.0, Scholars can be utilized to snipe enemies more effectively from afar, and are less about turning foes into Chickens. Aero is great for AoE sniping needs, whereas Bio is better for single-target, inescapable and potentially lifesappingly devasting sniping. Books now have the potential to boost a Scholar's capabilities and are geared to their abilities, such as granting a boost to Wind magic.


NECROMANCER:

Skillset: Blood Magic
Example Skills: Dark, Doom, Zombify, Death, Raise, Osmose, Blood Oath, Turning, Putrify
Equip: Knives, Hats, Robes

Dark Magic Gimmick: Dark/Dark II cannot be Reflected or Counter Magic'd, unlike spells from other elemental families.

Ah, Necromancer. How many revisions has it taken to get me to like you? Necromancers are masters of life and death- in PW 2.0, not only can they take it away, they can also give it! That's right, Necromancers now have the Raise spell, meaning that it takes a joint effort between Necromancers and Devouts to properly raise and heal the dead. Ironic, no? Anyhow, Necromancers can fill a variety of roles depending on how you play. Knives each can inflict various debuffs, and when combined with the Zombify spell, enemies can become crippled quite quickly. That said, Zombify doesn't have to be a debuff. Zombifying an ally can allow you to use Blood Oath (which greatly buffs an Undead unit) or Putrify (to fully heal it). Likewise, Zombifying an enemy will allow you to Turn it, making it be a temporary ally. Should that fail, of course, you can always blast it with Dark/Dark II or flat out Doom or Death it to, well, death.


GEOMANCER:

Skillset: Gaia's Wrath
Example Skills: Sand Tomb, Tailwind, Hellflame's Gate, Forest's Curse
Equip: Poles, Hats, Robes, Clothing
Innate: Swim, Lavawalking, Ignore Weather

Geomancers are likely the most advanced class in PW 2.0, requiring a firm grasp of each map's individual tiles and height differences. In fact, that's entirely what Geomancers focus on: map and height gimmicks. Geomancers provide very potent effects that are difficult to use, or can flat out backfire if not used properly. For example, Tailwind grants Haste to all units on the same height as the user- which means you can accidentally end up Hasting the entire enemy party if not used carefully. Likewise, Hellgate's Flame is only one of two player skills that can fully revive the fallen- but the caster can only be on certain terrain to use it, meaning that if a fallen ally is out of the limited range of the terrain, they're out of luck. Think of PW 2.0's Geomancers as a form of Vanilla FFT's Calculators: easy to pick up, incredibly difficult to master, with the potential to screw yourself or decimate the enemy.


HARBINGER:

Skillset: Darkness
Example Skills: Souleater, Dark Wave, Dark Aura, Immobilize, Disable, Break, Stop
Equip: Axes, Swords, Shields, Helmets, Heavy Armor

Harbingers of PW 1.0 were horribly overpowered, capable of decimating entire enemy armies with little thought. PW 2.0 heavily changes that, making Harbingers still powerful (at the cost of one's own HP), but they're more akin to Queens in Chess now. Still powerful, but range and unit position are critical to their being. Harbingers have three primary offensive damaging skills, each with a range gimmick that makes it different from the other two:

-Dark Wave (Deals damage two tiles in front of the user)
-Dark Aura (Deals damage to units immediately surrounding the user)
-Souleater (Deals damage to a single unit within two tiles of the user)

Basically, like Chess pieces, which Darkness skill you'll want to go with (each is very JP pricy) depends on how you want to position your Harbinger. Does the enemy keep moving to inconvenient locations? This is where the Immobilize and Stop spells come in. Harbingers are all about crippling enemies... for their own benefit, and crushing them with their own life force.


PERFORMER:

Skillset: Perform
Example Skills: Sword Dance, Seraph Song, Polka, Heathen Frolick, Requiem
Equip: Swords, Poles, Spears, Hats, Clothing
Immune: Silence, Immobilize

Performers are a blend of Vanilla FFT's Bard and Dancer jobs- except they now have the Samurai's gimmick of requiring items to use. Instruments are obtained by Treasure Hunting throughout various battlefields, and without Instruments, the Performer is unable to, well, perform. The Performer's skills have huge range, meaning that they can safely stay afar while buffing allies, or debuffing enemies. Their immunity to Silence allows them to be potent spellcasters, and their immunity to Immobilize allows them to be capable frontline fighters.


NINJA:

Skillset: Ninjutsu
Example Skills: Fuuton, Meiton, Addle, Envenomate, Aphony, Unspell
Equip: Ninja Blades, Shields, Hats, Clothing
Innate: Kite (Fly)

Ninja in PW 2.0 are a vastly different sort than the kind found in Vanilla FFT. They can't inherently Dual Wield, and they aren't meant for direct damage. Rather, Ninja are meant to be something akin to sacrificial pawns: each Ninja Blade boosts Move and Jump by 1, and this allows Ninja to rush in and get killed. That's bad, right? Not quite. PW 2.0's Ninja is meant to charge into enemies, evade their inevitable blows, get surrounded... and then release lethal debuffs to surrounding units. Ninja can get surrounded by foes, and unleash Addle to Confuse each surrounding unit, and then use their inherent Fly to fly back out of danger. Once they're out of direct danger, they can contribute to direct damage using their -ton Ninjutsu spells, which deal damage based on both MA and PA.


SAGE:

Skillset: Magnum Opus
Example Skills: Comet, Meteor, Quick, Delay, Haste, Slow
Equip: Staves, Rods, Books, Hats, Robes

Comet Magic Gimmick: Comet deals non-elemental damage to a single enemy that hits harder than other elemental spell families, including Stone.

Sages are... eccentric. They're basically Vanilla Time Mages on steroids. Their spells focus on meddling with time to create huge, battle altering effects. Quick raises the CT of all units to 100, Delay reduces the CT of all units to 0, etc... if they hit. Likewise, Meteor damages all units on the field, making it a risky maneuver that can pay off if one's party is defensive, and can undo the damage. Like all Time Mages proper, they can use Haste and Slow to further meddle with time.


TEMPLAR:

Skillset: Witchhunting
Example Skills: Jump, Recruit, Mind Ruin, Soulstrike, Exorcise, Syphon
Equip: Swords, Spears, Shields, Helmets, Heavy Armor

Templars, much like in PW 1.0, focus on slaying mages. If a spear to the head isn't enough, Soulstrike to deal weapon damage to MP surely is. Likewise, Templars can Jump to damage from afar, and Recruit to Charm opposite gender enemies temporarily. Templars are Male exclusive.


VALKYRIE:

Skillset: Slaying
Example Skills: Jump, Recruit, Power Ruin, Heartstrike, Dragonslayer, Lancet
Equip: Swords, Spears, Shields, Helmets, Heavy Armor

See Templars, except Valkyries focus more on demolishing HP and PA than MP and MA. Like Templars, they can Jump and Recruit, but Valkyries are Female exclusive.


Well, that's all for generic jobs. Any feedback is welcome... I'm mostly posting this here as notes for myself, lol.

EDIT:

Not listed above, the new statuses:

Curse: A unit has all of its buffs dispelled, and cannot be buffed again.

Veil: A unit has all of its debuffs dispelled, and cannot be debuffed again.

Imperil: A unit is weak to all elements.

Gossip: A Gossip'd unit cannot attack, and can only use 1 of 16 random Talk Skills against random units.

Skills that could be used through Gossip:

-Gossip (Spreads Gossip to another unit)
-Insult (Add: Berserk)
-Preach (+4 Faith)
-Enlighten (-4 Faith)
-Intimidate (Add: Immobilize)
-Condemn (Add: Doom)
-Mimic Daravon (Add: Sleep)
-Entice (Add: Charm)
-Stall (Add: Stop)
-Praise (Add: Regen)
-Beg (Cancel: Charging/Defending/Performing)
-Infuriate (+4 Fury)
-Threaten (-4 Fury)
-Yell (Add: Haste)
-Encourage (Restores HP)
-Suggestion (Damages HP)

  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
"You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
  • Discord username: eternal248#1817

Vaan

Doubts:
1-How will the Bio sapping and poisoning work, is the sapping very weak or is the chance to poison very low? cuz otherwise its very overpowered.
2-Is all the corsair status inflicting skills 50/50, is there any diferent chance percentages patterns like positive 35/65? does the targets' evasion and the caster's accuracy change any of that?
3-What would be the 16 Talk Skills be and their chances of happening? (if decided)

Suggestions
That ninja skillset sounds nice but as i know ninjas they re more about stealth and backstabbing. Perhaps that ninja skillset should become another class and ninja should be a stealthy class with hide, instant kill skill with low accuracy etc, blinding the enemy, something like Solid Snake from Jot5, but with throw, idk. Also they maybe should have knives too.
"    One of these days I'll fly an airship of my own. I'll be a sky pirate, free to go where I will.    ,,
   ~ Vaan

Eternal

Quote from: Vaan on August 30, 2014, 11:18:56 pm
Doubts:
1-How will the Bio sapping and poisoning work, is the sapping very weak or is the chance to poison very low? cuz otherwise its very overpowered.
2-Is all the corsair status inflicting skills 50/50, is there any diferent chance percentages patterns like positive 35/65? does the targets' evasion and the caster's accuracy change any of that?
3-What would be the 16 Talk Skills be and their chances of happening? (if decided)

Suggestions
That ninja skillset sounds nice but as i know ninjas they re more about stealth and backstabbing. Perhaps that ninja skillset should become another class and ninja should be a stealthy class with hide, instant kill skill with low accuracy etc, blinding the enemy, something like Solid Snake from Jot5, but with throw, idk. Also they maybe should have knives too.


1) Bio will deal 10% damage to an enemy each time it goes off, with a 20% chance of inflicting Poison. It'll go off every 4 CT or so (I have yet to work out the exact numbers for it), whereas Bio II will probably do 20% damage each time it goes off, with a 20% chance of Poison.

2) Corsair skills will be a flat 50/50 rate. It won't be modified by evasion or accuracy.

3) It'd likely be 1/16 chance of each Talk Skill. Again, I haven't decided on the exact numbers, but that's what I'm feeling comfortable with.

4) In regards to Ninja, I wanted to make them different from how others perceive them. I noticed in FFT Arena that every time someone makes a unit with high Move, the unit charges forward, gets surrounded, and dies. I was inspired by that idea and decided to apply it to a job, albeit a job that wouldn't die. Ninja are all about stealth and sabotage, and by being able to easily dodge attacks and counter with mass debuffing, I believe it fits the bill rather nicely. :)

Throw will be in PW 2.0 as Gil Toss, and a special character will be getting it.
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
"You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
  • Discord username: eternal248#1817

Xander


skiploom188

I like the new buffs, sounds fun. I remember back in 1.0 I kept using the Devout. The memories...

That Corsair job is risky stuff. I'm not the type of person who tries to play with luck, but I can now think of ways to tip odds to my favor. Like using Snake Eyes, I'll make sure all my units cancel poison so I'll be all good :))

Oh right the Elements are scattered to many jobs. Let me try to remember where they're put with my memory: Fire is with Psion, Holy on Devout, Dark on... Necromancers! and Lightning on Magus I think. The rest I forgot ow sorry.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
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I evolved... into a stick figure. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj-yTyoVpYIdcdIPw8SP5rw
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Pokemon Fantasy Tactics - A treat for FFT fans! http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=10984.msg207542
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Vaan

I'd say Sentinels would fit that "getting surrounded" strategy best, but i guess high evasion works too. Seems a good idea.
So the Gossip skills arent decided yet?
Another thing i forgot, because i was so sleepy as you may remember, as much as Freelancers are supposed to be powerful in the end, i feel that if they had the Fire, Thunder and Blizzard skills they would be a bit too powerful in the beggining maybe? i feel it would be better to have a skill that has the same AoE, without any element, like ultima, but not as strong as if was a "baby version". I know you might say it wouldnt  be strong in the beggining since the low stat growth but i still feel that.
"    One of these days I'll fly an airship of my own. I'll be a sky pirate, free to go where I will.    ,,
   ~ Vaan

Eternal

Skills that'd be useable via Gossip are listed in the first post now.

Freelancer skills are as of yet still fairly undecided, so they'll be being played around with a lot between now and release.
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
"You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
  • Discord username: eternal248#1817

The Damned

September 02, 2014, 11:04:22 am #7 Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 10:24:25 pm by The Damned
(It's great to see you working on this again, Eternal.)

This even if I never got around to playing the original like with most other people's hacks unfortunately. I really need to fix that situation....

Still, it's always nice to see someone around here getting things done, especially given that I never can seem to do so myself. I'll skip the usual solipsistic pity party though as I've quite a lot of questions to ask and long-winded comments to make as per usual.

Prepare for trouble. And make it...dry. (This got so long I'm going to have make spoilers for my own paragraphs. Great.)


Quote from: Eternal on August 30, 2014, 09:25:01 pm
FREELANCER:

Skillset: Miscellany
Example Skills: Cure, Fire, Blizzard, Thunder, Throw Stone, Steelguard
Equip: Anything
Innate: Re-equip (Equip Change)

Freelancers are jacks-of-all-trades, capable of equipping any item in the game and are able to use a basic skill from most generic jobs in the game. Their stat growth is low, however, meaning that it's best to come back to them after you've gained levels in other jobs (akin to FFV). Although their skill pool makes them very viable early game, it's their wide array of equipment choices that sets them apart end game.


1. Ah, I was just thinking about FFV's "Bare" class for various reasons, so it's amusing to see this, especially with innate Re-equip. This seems fine given my own dealings with Squire/Soldier in Embargo, though that's as only flexible as it is partly for story and space reasons and it still can't equip everything, so....

2. At present, my only question about this is with regards to the Innate Re-equip, which I'm admittedly a bit wary of due to the A.I.'s seeming inability to use Equip Change: Are you using or planning to use the hack that makes Equip Change use up Move instead of Act? Or does using Equip Change still use up Act? Unfortunately, due to the aforementioned presumably still existent issue with the A.I., using up Act may be more balanced/"fair". Of course, it's up to you, which is why I'm asking.



Quote from: Eternal on August 30, 2014, 09:25:01 pm
ALCHEMIST:

Skillset: Items
Example Skills: Potion, Ether, Phoenix Down, Malboro Tentacle, Star Curtain
Equip: Books, Rods, Staves, Hats, Clothing
Innate: Item Lore (Throw Items)

Much like Chemists in Vanilla FFT, Alchemists fulfill the function of using Items for an instant effect in battle. Unlike Vanilla FFT, Items are far more varied this time around, being able to instantly (and accurately) afflict Poison, Protect, Regen, Blind, etc. However, although Items are instant, accurate, and have no MP cost, they're expensive to purchase and lack the AoE that the proper spells have. To that end, their use may vary based on your needs- and your wallet.


1. I'm admittedly still...quite weary of (Al)Chemists being able to instantly inflict anything, positive or negative, especially if it's a status that doesn't have a finite duration like Blind. I think that I expressed the same thing when Celdia was working on her patch (that I also still need to get around to playing) since I pointed out that it seems like it would be quite annoying to fight against when the A.I. has unlimited Items. While it wouldn't be as annoying as the unlimited Elixirs that got thrown around so causally in 1.3, it does seem like it would be rather quite annoying, especially given how common Item "has" to be for the sake of revival. (Unless, of course, you also still have Elixirs around, then it might actually be even more annoying. You might even say it would be quit--okay, I'm done abusing that word.)

That said, it's not like I haven't thought about it myself between looking at past Final Fantasies for inspiration, especially FFV and FFXII. I'd be a lot more comfortable with the idea if there was some way to make it so that there was at least a chance of dodging the deletrious items rather than them being at 100% accuracy like any healing item. Even then, though, there's still the issue of the positive status-inflicting items outpacing non-item methods of adding them, especially if those methods are magical or single-target or both. Hmmmm....

To this end, I have to ask: What (negative) statuses can current Alchemist inflict if you don't mind listing all of them?



Quote from: Eternal on August 30, 2014, 09:25:01 pm
SENTINEL:

Skillset: Warding
Example Skills: Steelguard, Protect, Shell, Reflect, Veil, Transfusion, Taunt
Equip: Swords, Knightswords, Shields, Helmets, Heavy Armor
Innate: Defend (Support Skill)

Sentinels are masters of unbreakable defenses, much like in PW 1.0. They still focus on defensive buffs such as Protect, Shell, and Reflect, but now also gain Veil, a new spell that inflicts the Veil status, which removes any debuffs and protects the Veil'd unit from being debuffed. It's a potent, but very costly spell that will find heavy use in PW 2.0's very debuff-heavy gameplay. Sentinels also gain a new form of Enmity- now called Taunt- wherein an adjacent foe is afflicted with Berserk and Immobilize, forcing it to engage the Sentinel (assuming the enemy has a melee weapon). Though Sentinels may have a simple role, in PW 2.0 where revival is difficult, an ounce of prevention is well worth a pound of Cure II or Raise.


1. I'm also a bit wary of Innate Defend, though "ironically" it's for the exact opposite reason I'm wary of Innate Equip Change: the A.I. has the tendency to use Defend a bit too much, even when it could be doing other things or at least saving its CT. Still, I can see why it's there.

2. Are Protect, Shell and Reflect spells that no longer go by Faith? Or is Sentinel more magical than it seems given it's a heavy armor class that gets access to neither Robes nor magical weapons and thus seems unlikely to have all that high MP or MA innately?

3. Speaking of weapons, do Knightswords have any particular type of focus? I'm guessing Swords don't, but Knightswords...usually have some vague focus, even if it's only "better, exclusive Swords with higher evasion and Forced Two Hands".

4. I still really want to like Taunt/Enmity, but Berserk & Immobilize still seems...kinda broken when you can just walk away yourself and when Berserk is presumably still infinite in duration. Not much you can really do about that though I guess, especially when it might arguably still be overpowered even if you made Berserk finite....



Quote from: Eternal on August 30, 2014, 09:25:01 pm
SNIPER:

Skillset: Aim
Example Skills: Armor Break, Weapon Break, Helmet Break, Shield Break, Aim: Arm, Aim: Leg
Equip: Bows, Crossbows, Hats, Clothing
Innate: Concentrate

Snipers are by nature masters of ranged combat and crippling the enemy before they even draw near. Much like FFT Arena's Archers, Snipers can rend all manner of gear and affix enemies firmly in place while they continue to be assailed by a barrage of further attacks and debuffs. Unlike PW 1.0's Snipers which focused on snares and traps, PW 2.0's Snipers take a much simpler approach to slaying enemies: breaking all of their shit and rendering them utterly helpless.


1. I...don't really like Innate Concentrate to be honest, but I can see why it's there I guess. It just seems a good bit overkill though, especially on a class with all the equipment breaks. To me, Innate Concentrate's only really justified (in terms of power) on Mime since they don't--well, can't--really get anything else and even then....

2. How do Bows and Crossbows differ from each other in Parted Ways, especially if Snipers can't innately use Shields now? (Not that it ever really made sense to able to use most, if any, Crossbows with a Shield, but meh.)



Quote from: Eternal on August 30, 2014, 09:25:01 pm
BERSERKER:

Skillset: Savagery
Example Skills: Fervor, Hibernate, Throw Stone, Scream, Threaten, Infuriate
Equip: Axes, Hats, Clothing

Berserkers are a very simple, effective job: they crush everything that moves. Beyond that, Berserkers manipulate battle by altering Fury (which still replaces Bravery), with their Infuriate and Intimidate skills. Beyond manipulating Fury, they can also tinker with the Berserk status to bolster themselves or their allies or cripple enemy mages. Axes now have the ability to crush gear upon striking, meaning that the more a Berserker attacks in its fervor, the greater the chance of completely overwhelming the foe.


1. This seems fine for the most part, though I'm not really sure I'd ever want to use Intimidate Threaten given everything else this class focuses on. Berserker having Intimidate Threaten makes sense, especially given Berserker's history and "flavor", but giving the opponent more Fury is only really beneficial to Berserker and giving them less Fury thus seems anathema. I guess decreasing Fury might work with Berserk status, but even then.... Intimidate Threaten might be better off on Sentinel, honestly, especially since you broke up Preach and Solution between Devout and Magus respectively since they could make better use of them individually.

2. I'm going to assume that Scream adds like Haste or something rather than retaining its vanilla brokenness. At its potential strongest incarnation, it's at best only a renamed Accumulate rather than something that still outright permanently adds Speed, right?



Quote from: Eternal on August 30, 2014, 09:25:01 pm
DEVOUT:
Skillset: Divinity
Example Skills: Cure, Dia, Blind, Preach, Faith, Holy
Equip: Staves, Hats, Robes

Dia Magic Gimmick: Dia/Dia II cannot miss or be evaded, unlike spells from other elemental families.

Devouts are the primary healing job of PW 2.0, but they can equally serve as a potent offensive job. Bearing the ability to smite enemies with accurate ease using Dia Magic, Devouts can rapidly switch between an offensive and defensive paradigm on the fly. For more tactical players, using Blind to cripple units is a viable option, as is using Faith for a quick, potent buff to a mage's damage/accuracy, or Preach to slowly (but permanently for the battle) buff a mage's damage/accuracy. Staves are also of note. In PW 2.0, Staves deal no damage at all. Rather, each Stave inflicts a buff or heals an ally. Keep this in mind: without an Equip: X skill or a way to replenish MP, a lone Devout may prove completely unable to deal any sort of damage.


1. This seems mostly fine, though I have to wonder if the increased amount of offensive spells might be problematic for the healing focus. I mean, even with just Holy, Priests could be rather...inattentive with healing for the sake of offense or even just being obtuse and trying to heal with Holy on units that absorb Holy element. Guess we'll see how it goes given here; it's just something I worry about given both of my Priests have at least three offensive spells as well.

2. Staves sound like a neat idea, though I automatically wondered if the A.I. would use them correctly. By "buff or heal", do you mean that the ones buff do 0 damage then given that the default healing formula for weapons can't inflict statuses? Has the A.I. been shown to actually use that since it still interprets 0 damage as, well, damage?



Quote from: Eternal on August 30, 2014, 09:25:01 pm
MAGUS:

Skillset: Impiety
Example Skills: Blizzard, Stone, Poison, Enlighten, Atheist, Shadowflare
Equip: Wands, Hats, Robes

Stone Magic Gimmick: Stone/Stone II deal the most damage out of the eight primary elemental spell families, but is prone to the (now very common) Float buff.

Blizzard Magic Gimmick: Blizzard/Blizzard II cannot harm allies.

The "evil" version of Devouts, Magi use spells that use Unfaith to determine damage. This means that, for a change of pace, a unit with low Faith is more optimal in this magic job than a unit with high Faith. To that end, Magi aren't completely useless against units with high Faith: they can utilize Poison to continually harm units (the formula to cast Poison ignores Faith), and they can also use Enlighten and Atheist in the same manner as Devouts can use Preach and Faith, albeit for the opposite effects, and to strengthen their own magick while weakening the enemy's. Fret not, units of Faith! Wands can hit from afar and can cast a spell upon striking, and these spells tend to work based on high Faith, or ignore Faith altogether, meaning that Faithful units may prefer being tankier Magi and striking with physical Wand strikes.


1. I quite rather like this class just from the description between it being a magical class based on low Faith rather than high Faith, Solution being called Enlighten now and Rods Wands being distance weapons now. The last one was something I decided to do a while ago for at least one patch, so it's good to see it being used somewhere else. Do Rods Wands still go by PA*WP though? (I'm personally fine with that depending on their WP.)



Quote from: Eternal on August 30, 2014, 09:25:01 pm
PSION:

Skillset: Psionics
Example Skills: Fire, Confuse, Sleep, Imperil, Float, Gravity, Empathy
Equip: Flails, Hats, Robes
Innate: Float (status), Teleport

Fire Magic Gimmick: Fire/Fire II have high AoE compared to other families of magic.

Psions carry a variety of gimmicks that can be geared towards many different kinds of play. Psions are masters at chaining skills together for deadly effect, and work well with other kinds of mages. Float can be chained with Gravity to crash an enemy to the ground, cancelling the Float effect and dealing massive damage to the enemy. Likewise, Imperil (which replaces Oil and reduces resistance to each element), can be chained with Fire/Fire II for heavy damage. For those preferring debuffs, Sleep and Confuse can easily turn the tides of battle, or earn time for you to heal and revitalize your party. Empathy is a pricy spell that is best used on heavily armored Psions, or vice versa: Empathy deals damage to the enemy based on the caster's lost HP: a risky spell with potentially huge damage potential. Desperate, MP-less Psions will find that the accurate strikes of Flails can save them in dire straits.


1. This is easily the weirdest class for me, just from a conceptual standpoint. I don't mean that on an ability level, since it's actually rather neat to have abilities that directly link into each other as well as making sense. It's just weird to see a psychic and something blatantly with that name in a medieval-ish fantasy setting, even if divination arguably falls under psychic abilities and that constantly shows up in such settings. I guess it's even weirder because if you expected one of the mage classes to not go by Faith, then this would be it rather than Magus, but whatever works. Shrug.

2. From Flails' description, it sounds like their "gimmick" is being close-range unevadeable weapons (and thus probably going by WP*WP). Is this a correct assessment?

3. Almost forgot to comment on innate Teleport. I can't say that I really like it, but as long as you can no longer Teleport beyond your actual move, then it should be fine I guess. It seems a bit much to have innate Float alongside it too though, even if this class shows up later. Still, I guess it might work, though it's really dependent upon how powerful innate Teleport (still) is.



Quote from: Eternal on August 30, 2014, 09:25:01 pm
SEER:

Skillset: Judgment
Example Skills: Water, Thunder, Regen, Stun, Meditate
Equip: Wands, Staves, Hats, Robes, Clothing
Innate: Waterwalking

Water Magic Gimmick: Water/Water II consumes less MP than spells of other elemental families- better for early game gameplay.

Thunder Magic Gimmick: Thunder/Thunder II takes less time to charge than spells of other elemental families, making them easier to use against speedier enemies found late game.

Seers are a mixed bag with a variety of useful skills/spells that are geared more towards early game battles (Seers are the first mage job unlocked), but their skills prove useful afterwards, as well. Water and Thunder's gimmicks can be used depending on what situation the user is in, and their gimmicks allow them to give physical jobs (and other jobs with low MP) the opportunity to use magic as well. Meditate is the only way to easily restore MP early in the game, and Regen is universally helpful. Being able to equip both Wands and Staves, Seers can take either an offensive or defensive position depending on what the player prefers.


1. And speaking of psychics masquerading as magicians, Seers are weird to me as well name-wise. Here, however, it's a lot more because this seems quite similar to the rare Viking class, which has nothing to do with Seer. Well, that and Seer makes me think of something more akin to a status mage like, well, Oracle. Again, whatever works.

2. Does Stun add some type of status? Or does it "just" reduce CT?



Quote from: Eternal on August 30, 2014, 09:25:01 pm
CORSAIR:

Skillset: Gamble
Example Skills: Coin Toss, Felicity, Lucky 777, Jackpot, Fortuna Major, Gamble
Equip: Knives, Guns, Hats, Clothing

Corsairs are a job solely created for those who enjoy the thrill of unpredictable, wild battles. Corsairs rely on skills that focus on, well, luck. Coin Toss and Felicity deal damage and heal (respectively) either the user or an adjacent target, with potentially devastating or wonderful results. Gamble can inflict a random status (positive or negative) onto a unit for free, and as for the others, well...

-Snake Eyes (Poison or Regen on all units)
-Lady Luck (Innocent or Faith on all units)
-Triple 777 (Slow or Haste on all units)
-Fortuna Major (Curse or Veil on all units)

As you can see, the map-wide Gamble skills all can inflict one of two opposing statuses: basically, you can keep rerolling for the other status, but chances are, the numerical outcome will be the same. Fortuna Major is the exception, in that it's the end-all-be-all of Gamble skills. If Veil lands, every roll from there on is guaranteed to buff the Veil'd unit or do nothing- likewise, if Curse lands, the unit is guaranteed to be debuffed or do nothing.


1. This seems rather interesting. It's nice to see anyone using a version of Gambler, even if Gadgeteer-like abilities are the way one would have to go for a lot of its abilities; it's nice to see someone making use of that linear thing I never ended using after we discovered it years ago. Still, Gadgeteer largely sucked because those map-wide statuses were all they had. As long Gambler/Corsair has other options, which it looks like it does including Guns, then it should be at least significantly more interesting and less annoying to use than poor, nigh useless Gadgeeter.

2. With regards to the abilities listed, I'm assuming that Triple 777 and Lucky 777 are actually the same thing, correct? The same goes for Snake Eyes and Jackpot, correct? Or are there are more "Gamble" skills than the four listed? It's a bit confusing since Gamble itself is seemingly listed as a skill and yet it seems more like it's just a subgroup.

3. I'm guessing that Coin Toss doesn't use actual Gil, right?

4. Do Knives have any particular focus?

5. Do Guns have any focus that actually differs from vanilla, which it seems still influences Guns in basically all patches?



Quote from: Eternal on August 30, 2014, 09:25:01 pm
SCHOLAR:

Skillset: Lore
Example Skills: Aero, Bio, Esuna, Dispel, Frog
Equip: Books, Hats, Robes, Clothing

Aero Magic Gimmick: Aero/Aero II have higher Range than spells of other elemental families.

Bio Magic Gimmick: Bio/Bio II will continually sap an enemy's HP over time, dealing Dark damage over a period of time with a chance to inflict Poison.

Scholars, much like in PW 1.0, are regulators of status effects. Esuna and Dispel are extremely useful and accurate, and their AoE effects will definitely be of use against enemies and crippled allies. Also like PW 1.0, Scholars focus on Aero and Bio magic: Aero being their primary offensive magic, and Bio to steadily cripple an enemy. Unlike PW 1.0, Scholars can be utilized to snipe enemies more effectively from afar, and are less about turning foes into Chickens. Aero is great for AoE sniping needs, whereas Bio is better for single-target, inescapable and potentially lifesappingly devasting sniping. Books now have the potential to boost a Scholar's capabilities and are geared to their abilities, such as granting a boost to Wind magic.


1. Lore seems interesting enough, though the Bio spells seem like they'd be even more difficult to balance than most abilities given the Bio spells are repeating. Guess we'll see how that works.

2. Oh, so Devout doesn't have Esuna? I actually approve of that quite a bit.



Quote from: Eternal on August 30, 2014, 09:25:01 pm
NECROMANCER:

Skillset: Blood Magic
Example Skills: Dark, Doom, Zombify, Death, Raise, Osmose, Blood Oath, Turning, Putrify
Equip: Knives, Hats, Robes

Dark Magic Gimmick: Dark/Dark II cannot be Reflected or Counter Magic'd, unlike spells from other elemental families.

Ah, Necromancer. How many revisions has it taken to get me to like you? Necromancers are masters of life and death- in PW 2.0, not only can they take it away, they can also give it! That's right, Necromancers now have the Raise spell, meaning that it takes a joint effort between Necromancers and Devouts to properly raise and heal the dead. Ironic, no? Anyhow, Necromancers can fill a variety of roles depending on how you play. Knives each can inflict various debuffs, and when combined with the Zombify spell, enemies can become crippled quite quickly. That said, Zombify doesn't have to be a debuff. Zombifying an ally can allow you to use Blood Oath (which greatly buffs an Undead unit) or Putrify (to fully heal it). Likewise, Zombifying an enemy will allow you to Turn it, making it be a temporary ally. Should that fail, of course, you can always blast it with Dark/Dark II or flat out Doom or Death it to, well, death.


1. Another class that sounds rather interesting just from the concept and abilities given despite it probably being the second most common class for people to try to add into patches of classes that weren't actually in vanilla; I'd imagine it's second after Blue Mage, of course. Not focusing on only the Undead helps a lot though and as with losing Esuna, I approve of Devout losing Raise as well.



Quote from: Eternal on August 30, 2014, 09:25:01 pm
GEOMANCER:

Skillset: Gaia's Wrath
Example Skills: Sand Tomb, Tailwind, Hellflame's Gate, Forest's Curse
Equip: Poles, Hats, Robes, Clothing
Innate: Swim, Lavawalking, Ignore Weather

Geomancers are likely the most advanced class in PW 2.0, requiring a firm grasp of each map's individual tiles and height differences. In fact, that's entirely what Geomancers focus on: map and height gimmicks. Geomancers provide very potent effects that are difficult to use, or can flat out backfire if not used properly. For example, Tailwind grants Haste to all units on the same height as the user- which means you can accidentally end up Hasting the entire enemy party if not used carefully. Likewise, Hellgate's Flame is only one of two player skills that can fully revive the fallen- but the caster can only be on certain terrain to use it, meaning that if a fallen ally is out of the limited range of the terrain, they're out of luck. Think of PW 2.0's Geomancers as a form of Vanilla FFT's Calculators: easy to pick up, incredibly difficult to master, with the potential to screw yourself or decimate the enemy.


1. The new Geomancer easily sounds like the most peculiar class of the bunch given it seems like it's more of a support pseudo-mage now than an attacking one. As such, I'm guessing that Counter Flood/Gaia's Revenge no longer exists, correct? I'm personally quite fine with that.

2. Given I've been nagging about weapons at every turn, I "have" to ask if Poles have any particular focus at present. So...do they?



Quote from: Eternal on August 30, 2014, 09:25:01 pm
HARBINGER:

Skillset: Darkness
Example Skills: Souleater, Dark Wave, Dark Aura, Immobilize, Disable, Break, Stop
Equip: Axes, Swords, Shields, Helmets, Heavy Armor

Harbingers of PW 1.0 were horribly overpowered, capable of decimating entire enemy armies with little thought. PW 2.0 heavily changes that, making Harbingers still powerful (at the cost of one's own HP), but they're more akin to Queens in Chess now. Still powerful, but range and unit position are critical to their being. Harbingers have three primary offensive damaging skills, each with a range gimmick that makes it different from the other two:

-Dark Wave (Deals damage two tiles in front of the user)
-Dark Aura (Deals damage to units immediately surrounding the user)
-Souleater (Deals damage to a single unit within two tiles of the user)

Basically, like Chess pieces, which Darkness skill you'll want to go with (each is very JP pricy) depends on how you want to position your Harbinger. Does the enemy keep moving to inconvenient locations? This is where the Immobilize and Stop spells come in. Harbingers are all about crippling enemies... for their own benefit, and crushing them with their own life force.


1. This class also sounds rather peculiar, though that may just be because it sounds almost  as particular about positioning as Geomancer does. It still seems interesting though. I'm guessing that like the Dark Knight skills they're named and styled after, Dark Wave, Dark Aura and Souleater--not to be confused with Soul Eater--are actually Dark element, correct?

2. That said, all their jockeying for position seems like it may be undermined by access to Break provided Break is straight-out attempt to Petrify rather than a mere chance to Petrify while doing (Earth) damage. Then again, I'm one to talk about that since I vaguely remember giving Gafgarion some form of Break years ago, so meh.



Quote from: Eternal on August 30, 2014, 09:25:01 pm
PERFORMER:

Skillset: Perform
Example Skills: Sword Dance, Seraph Song, Polka, Heathen Frolick, Requiem
Equip: Swords, Poles, Spears, Hats, Clothing
Immune: Silence, Immobilize

Performers are a blend of Vanilla FFT's Bard and Dancer jobs- except they now have the Samurai's gimmick of requiring items to use. Instruments are obtained by Treasure Hunting throughout various battlefields, and without Instruments, the Performer is unable to, well, perform. The Performer's skills have huge range, meaning that they can safely stay afar while buffing allies, or debuffing enemies. Their immunity to Silence allows them to be potent spellcasters, and their immunity to Immobilize allows them to be capable frontline fighters.


1. Ah, so you combined the two and made them unisex as well as the replacement for Samurai with status immunities to boot. Easily the most interesting class to me, especially since I just realized that you could rather easily use Thief's sprite since you don't have a Thief class--itself quite interesting--among your generics and they'd still fit Performer more than decently. So that means that isn't "actually" a sprite problem with their being no female sprite for Bards or male sprite for Dancers (currently).

2. If Performers use of Instruments are modeled after Katana for Draw Out, then do you plan to have Instruments being capable of breaking/becoming "unstrung"?

3. Similarly, I just noticed something else about Instruments: you don't have them as an equip for Performer (or anyone else, including presumably Freelancer). So are Instruments now only instruments harnessed for magical murder rather than actual...instruments of regular murder? I'm...mostly fine with that actually; it's just going to take a bit of getting used to, especially if they're still in-game as relative fodder for Perform.

4. [Insert requisite question about "do Spears have a focus currently?" here.]



Quote from: Eternal on August 30, 2014, 09:25:01 pm
NINJA:

Skillset: Ninjutsu
Example Skills: Fuuton, Meiton, Addle, Envenomate, Aphony, Unspell
Equip: Ninja Blades, Shields, Hats, Clothing
Innate: Kite (Fly)

Ninja in PW 2.0 are a vastly different sort than the kind found in Vanilla FFT. They can't inherently Dual Wield, and they aren't meant for direct damage. Rather, Ninja are meant to be something akin to sacrificial pawns: each Ninja Blade boosts Move and Jump by 1, and this allows Ninja to rush in and get killed. That's bad, right? Not quite. PW 2.0's Ninja is meant to charge into enemies, evade their inevitable blows, get surrounded... and then release lethal debuffs to surrounding units. Ninja can get surrounded by foes, and unleash Addle to Confuse each surrounding unit, and then use their inherent Fly to fly back out of danger. Once they're out of direct danger, they can contribute to direct damage using their -ton Ninjutsu spells, which deal damage based on both MA and PA.


1. Despite Vaan's understandable misgivings about our pajama-wearing friends here, I actually think I like this class the most of all the ones presented so just because it's the most interesting take on Ninja I've seen and because it takes the A.I.'s tendencies (read: flaws) into account. Given that actual Ninja were less about the oxymoron of "visible stealth" and slinking around in the night clad in black than they were just people with seemingly normal jobs who were essentially just spies or even assassins when the time came, I'm more than fine with this variation. Ninja's constant need to be masters of nitoryuu in Final Fantasy has always been a bit tiresome and fictional fantasy ninja tend to be paradoxically really "loud" characters whether in personality or just visually; never thought I'd be seemingly arguing positively along lines that would also work for Naruto given how much I've come to loathe that franchise, but there you have it. So the kamikaze "please look at and try to kill me!" focus works, even if Shields seem a bit...weird despite still making sense with the theme.

That said, I really also like innate Fly on them rather than innate Waterwalking even if the whole Wuxia, wire-fighting thing is a Chinese thing rather than a Japanese one.

2. I'm kind of a bit surprised that you didn't give them a Shock-like or Self-Destruct-like ability as such, though I'm completely fine with that given that I don't really like such abilities for the most part.

3. Speaking of abilities, why "Envenomate" and "Aphony" instead of "Envenom" and "Aphonia"?

4. [Insert comment here about how one hopes that Addle's Confuse-adding isn't actually adding Confusion.]



Quote from: Eternal on August 30, 2014, 09:25:01 pm
SAGE:

Skillset: Magnum Opus
Example Skills: Comet, Meteor, Quick, Delay, Haste, Slow
Equip: Staves, Rods, Books, Hats, Robes

Comet Magic Gimmick: Comet deals non-elemental damage to a single enemy that hits harder than other elemental spell families, including Stone.

Sages are... eccentric. They're basically Vanilla Time Mages on steroids. Their spells focus on meddling with time to create huge, battle altering effects. Quick raises the CT of all units to 100, Delay reduces the CT of all units to 0, etc... if they hit. Likewise, Meteor damages all units on the field, making it a risky maneuver that can pay off if one's party is defensive, and can undo the damage. Like all Time Mages proper, they can use Haste and Slow to further meddle with time.


1. Time Mage on steroids? I'm sold. [/actually concise comment]

2. Unlike ARENA, is Parted Way's version of Comet avoidable and/or Reflectable?



Quote from: Eternal on August 30, 2014, 09:25:01 pm
TEMPLAR:

Skillset: Witchhunting
Example Skills: Jump, Recruit, Mind Ruin, Soulstrike, Exorcise, Syphon
Equip: Swords, Spears, Shields, Helmets, Heavy Armor

Templars, much like in PW 1.0, focus on slaying mages. If a spear to the head isn't enough, Soulstrike to deal weapon damage to MP surely is. Likewise, Templars can Jump to damage from afar, and Recruit to Charm opposite gender enemies temporarily. Templars are Male exclusive.


VALKYRIE:

Skillset: Slaying
Example Skills: Jump, Recruit, Power Ruin, Heartstrike, Dragonslayer, Lancet
Equip: Swords, Spears, Shields, Helmets, Heavy Armor

See Templars, except Valkyries focus more on demolishing HP and PA than MP and MA. Like Templars, they can Jump and Recruit, but Valkyries are Female exclusive.


1. I might as well do these together since they're gendered--well, sexed--analogs. I think splitting up Lancer-esque classes is actually a rather neat idea, especially since it means you'll be able to split up the Lancet skill that we can't otherwise make currently between the two of them. Having Templar this far up also makes the game a lot easier on poor mages; the same goes for Seal Evil with regards to Undead units and presumably Dragonslayer with regards to Draconic units. Finally, splitting up Steal Heart along gender lines also makes quite a bit of sense as well with the benefit of being able to just use the same ability in both classes.

2. That said, I'm a bit confused as to what Heartstrike does if it's the opposite of Soulstrike and how it would differ from just any regular Spear (or Sword) strike.

3. Is this Jump a pseudo-analog of the "real" Jump? Or did you find some way to allow the use of the "real" Jump within a skill set that isn't composed of just Jump? (Jump jump. [Slide slide.])



Quote from: Eternal on August 30, 2014, 09:25:01 pm
EDIT:

Not listed above, the new statuses:

Curse: A unit has all of its buffs dispelled, and cannot be buffed again.

Veil: A unit has all of its debuffs dispelled, and cannot be debuffed again.

Imperil: A unit is weak to all elements.

Gossip: A Gossip'd unit cannot attack, and can only use 1 of 16 random Talk Skills against random units.

Skills that could be used through Gossip:

-Gossip (Spreads Gossip to another unit)
-Insult (Add: Berserk)
-Preach (+4 Faith)
-Enlighten (-4 Faith)
-Intimidate (Add: Immobilize)
-Condemn (Add: Doom)
-Mimic Daravon (Add: Sleep)
-Entice (Add: Charm)
-Stall (Add: Stop)
-Praise (Add: Regen)
-Beg (Cancel: Charging/Defending/Performing)
-Infuriate (+4 Fury)
-Threaten (-4 Fury)
-Yell (Add: Haste)
-Encourage (Restores HP)
-Suggestion (Damages HP)




1. Oh, so Threaten, rather than Intimidate, is what lowers Brave Fury. I suppose that makes sense given the name is unchanged from vanilla. I just got confused with my own patches for a bit. Regardless, I've gone back and slightly amended my commentary under Berserker with regards to what was actually Threaten, not Intimidate.

2. I originally had this question under Sentinel, but I figure that I'll move it down here given that this is the status section: "I like that you're still calling the buff-enabling status Veil. I'm still not decided on whether I want to call it that or Blessed or Astra or something else, so it's nice to see someone else decided upon it. Although I'm pretty sure I already know the answer, I figure I might as well ask: Neither Cursed nor Veil wear off normally do they? And, outside of dying, the only things that cancel them are each other, correct? That could be...problematic, especially if Veil is easily accessible."

3. Similarly, this was under feedback on Psion originally: "Interesting to note that Imperil outright places Oil status here. That would certainly be the easier way to handle those two statuses though...."

4. This was also similarly under feedback for Psion originally: "Please tell me that Confuse doesn't actually add Confusion status. Or are you making Confuse finite or at least making it so that the A.I. can't be abused by a Loss 'strategy'?"

5. Seeing Blood Suck status get made into another status that's actually still somewhat similar to it is interesting, especially since I doubt Gossip counts as a KO status. This is a rather welcome change given seemingly everyone else, myself included, replaces Blood Suck if it even gets touched at all. It's also rather amusing to think that if it is Blood Suck's replacement, then this means that Elmdor is officially a Gossip-y bitch instead of just looking like a stereotypical male one in all his Bishonen, sparkling vampire splendor.

(Please tell me Gossip status turns you hot pink instead of purple. Like...offensively pink. To, you know, reference Mediator/Orator. [/blatant lies])

That said, I can't help but wonder if you're perhaps giving the Gossip-statused A.I. a few too many options under the status, especially looking at situational things like Beg. Then again, I'm not really sure how cognizant the A.I. will act if it's not only stuck with one (suicidal) action and...this just made me realize I could so easily use Blood Suck's space for something I wanted to do and far more easily than what I had planned. Figures.

Anyway, I never did get around to testing skill set A7, assuming that's one that regulates abilities under Blood Suck status, so I have to ask: You have checked to make sure that a Gossip-inflicted unit has access to (read: will use) all those abilities, correct?

6. Also related to Gossip, if it is the Blood Suck replacement, then is it correct to assume that it's not going to be a status that generics can cause? This especially since Mediator seemingly no longer exists.

7. This is my final Dandy question (for now): Does Reraise status still exist? I would be so comfortable with it being dead actually, especially since you're trying to build Parted Ways more around preventative measures rather than "sandbagging" and Reraise's very existence seems like it would go against that even if it's "preventing" death--well, crystallization--arguably. I haven't seen any mention of it, so I figured I "should" ask.



Too long feedback over, I have to say it's a bit weird to realize belatedly that in addition to the usual patch casualties of Charge, Throw and Math Skill, you also completely got rid of Monk, Thief, Mediator, Samurai, Mime and Summoner. Pretty much every other patch on FFH so far has kept some version of at least one of those for generic use, so seeing them all gone already makes this rather different from other patches. Conceptually, things look much more well-defined than the initial version as far as classes and statuses go. That's hardly surprising given the first (umpteenth) draft(s) of anything tends to be mediocre at best.

*points to own threads*

Good luck with all this. I'm sure I'll bother you again later after your eyes have recovered from this hideous abuse of them (if they ever do).
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

Eternal

Quote from: The Damned on September 02, 2014, 11:04:22 am
(It's great to see you working on this again, Eternal.)

This even if I never got around to playing the original like with most other people's hacks unfortunately. I really need to fix that situation....

Still, it's always nice to see someone around here getting things done, especially given that I never can seem to do so myself. I'll skip the usual solipsistic pity party though as I've quite a lot of questions to ask and long-winded comments to make as per usual.

Prepare for trouble. And make it...dry. (This got so long I'm going to have make spoilers for my own paragraphs. Great.)


1. Ah, I was just thinking about FFV's "Bare" class for various reasons, so it's amusing to see this, especially with innate Re-equip. This seems fine given my own dealings with Squire/Soldier in Embargo, though that's as only flexible as it is partly for story and space reasons and it still can't equip everything, so....

2. At present, my only question about this is with regards to the Innate Re-equip, which I'm admittedly a bit wary of due to the A.I.'s seeming inability to use Equip Change: Are you using or planning to use the hack that makes Equip Change use up Move instead of Act? Or does using Equip Change still use up Act? Unfortunately, due to the aforementioned presumably still existent issue with the A.I., using up Act may be more balanced/"fair". Of course, it's up to you, which is why I'm asking.



1. I'm admittedly still...quite weary of (Al)Chemists being able to instantly inflict anything, positive or negative, especially if it's a status that doesn't have a finite duration like Blind. I think that I expressed the same thing when Celdia was working on her patch (that I also still need to get around to playing) since I pointed out that it seems like it would be quite annoying to fight against when the A.I. has unlimited Items. While it wouldn't be as annoying as the unlimited Elixirs that got thrown around so causally in 1.3, it does seem like it would be rather quite annoying, especially given how common Item "has" to be for the sake of revival. (Unless, of course, you also still have Elixirs around, then it might actually be even more annoying. You might even say it would be quit--okay, I'm done abusing that word.)

That said, it's not like I haven't thought about it myself between looking at past Final Fantasies for inspiration, especially FFV and FFXII. I'd be a lot more comfortable with the idea if there was some way to make it so that there was at least a chance of dodging the deletrious items rather than them being at 100% accuracy like any healing item. Even then, though, there's still the issue of the positive status-inflicting items outpacing non-item methods of adding them, especially if those methods are magical or single-target or both. Hmmmm....

To this end, I have to ask: What (negative) statuses can current Alchemist inflict if you don't mind listing all of them?



1. I'm also a bit wary of Innate Defend, though "ironically" it's for the exact opposite reason I'm wary of Innate Equip Change: the A.I. has the tendency to use Defend a bit too much, even when it could be doing other things or at least saving its CT. Still, I can see why it's there.

2. Are Protect, Shell and Reflect spells that no longer go by Faith? Or is Sentinel more magical than it seems given it's a heavy armor class that gets access to neither Robes nor magical weapons and thus seems unlikely to have all that high MP or MA innately?

3. Speaking of weapons, do Knightswords have any particular type of focus? I'm guessing Swords don't, but Knightswords...usually have some vague focus, even if it's only "better, exclusive Swords with higher evasion and Forced Two Hands".

4. I still really want to like Taunt/Enmity, but Berserk & Immobilize still seems...kinda broken when you can just walk away yourself and when Berserk is presumably still infinite in duration. Not much you can really do about that though I guess, especially when it might arguably still be overpowered even if you made Berserk finite....



1. I...don't really like Innate Concentrate to be honest, but I can see why it's there I guess. It just seems a good bit overkill though, especially on a class with all the equipment breaks. To me, Innate Concentrate's only really justified (in terms of power) on Mime since they don't--well, can't--really get anything else and even then....

2. How do Bows and Crossbows differ from each other in Parted Ways, especially if Snipers can't innately use Shields now? (Not that it ever really made sense to able to use most, if any, Crossbows with a Shield, but meh.)



1. This seems fine for the most part, though I'm not really sure I'd ever want to use Intimidate Threaten given everything else this class focuses on. Berserker having Intimidate Threaten makes sense, especially given Berserker's history and "flavor", but giving the opponent more Fury is only really beneficial to Berserker and giving them less Fury thus seems anathema. I guess decreasing Fury might work with Berserk status, but even then.... Intimidate Threaten might be better off on Sentinel, honestly, especially since you broke up Preach and Solution between Devout and Magus respectively since they could make better use of them individually.

2. I'm going to assume that Scream adds like Haste or something rather than retaining its vanilla brokenness. At its potential strongest incarnation, it's at best only a renamed Accumulate rather than something that still outright permanently adds Speed still, right?



1. This seems mostly fine, though I have to wonder if the increased amount of offensive spells might be problematic for the healing focus. I mean, even with just Holy, Priests could be rather...inattentive with healing for the sake of offense or even just being obtuse and trying to heal with Holy on units that absorbed Holy element. Guess we'll see how it goes given here; it's just something I worry about given both of my Priests have at least three offensive elements as well.

2. Staves sound like an neat idea, though I automatically wondered if the A.I. would use them correctly. By "buff or heal", do you mean that the ones buff do 0 damage then given that the default healing formula for weapons can't inflict statuses? Has the A.I. been shown to actually use that since it still interprets 0 damage as, well, damage?



1. I quite rather like this class just from the description between it being a magical class based on low Faith rather than high Faith, Solution being called Enlighten now and Rods Wands being distance weapons now. The last one was something I decided to do a while ago for at least one patch, so it's good to see it being used somewhere else. Do Rods Wands still go by PA*WP though? (I'm personally fine with that depending on their WP.)



1. This is easily the weirdest class for me, just from a conceptual standpoint. I don't mean that on an ability level, since it's actually rather neat to have abilities that directly link into each other as well as making sense. It's just weird to see a psychic and something blatantly with that name in a medieval-ish fantasy setting, even if divination arguably falls under psychic abilities and that constantly shows up in such settings. I guess it's even weirder because if you expected one of the mage classes to not go by Faith, then this would be it rather than Magus, but whatever works. Shrug.

2. From Flails' description, it sounds like their "gimmick" is being close-range unevadeable weapons (and thus probably going by WP*WP). Is this a correct assessment?

3. Almost forgot comment on innate Teleport. I can't say that I really like it, but as long as you can no longer Teleport beyond your actual move, then it should be fine I guess. It seems a bit much to have innate Float alongside it too though, even if this class shows up later. Still, I guess it might work, though it's really dependent upon how powerful innate Teleport (still) is.



1. And speaking of psychics masquerading as magicians, Seers are weird to me as well name-wise. Here, however, it's a lot more because this seems quite similar to the rare Viking class, which has nothing to do with Seer. Well, that and Seer makes me think of something more akin to a status mage like, well, Oracle. Again, whatever works.

2. Does Stun add some type of status? Or does it "just" reduce CT?



1. This seems rather interesting. It's nice to see anyone using a version of Gambler, even if Gadgeeter-like abilities are the way one would have to go for a lot of its abilities; it's nice to see someone making use of that linear thing I never ended using after we discovered it years ago. Still, Gadgeeter largely sucked because those map-wide statuses were all they had. As long Gambler/Corsair has other options, which it looks like it does including Guns, then it should be at least significantly more interesting and less annoying to use than poor, nigh useless Gadgeeter.

2. With regards to the abilities listed, I'm assuming that Triple 777 and Lucky 777 are actually the same thing, correct? The same goes for Snake Eyes and Jackpot, correct? Or are there are more "Gamble" skills than the four listed? It's a bit confusing since Gamble itself is seemingly listed as a skill and yet it seems more like it's just a subgroup.

3. I'm guessing that Coin Toss doesn't use actual Gil, right?

4. Do Knives have any particular focus?

5. Do Guns have any focus that actually differs from vanilla, which it seems still influences Guns in basically all patches?



1. Lore seems interesting enough, though the Bio spells seem like they'd be even more difficult to balance than most abilities given the Bio spells are repeating. Guess we'll see how that works.

2. Oh, so Devout doesn't have Esuna? I actually approve of that quite a bit.



1. Another class that sounds rather interesting just from the concept and abilities given despite it probably being the second most common class for people to try to add into patches of classes that weren't actually in vanilla; I'd imagine it's second after Blue Mage, of course. Not focusing on only the Undead helps a lot though and as with losing Esuna, I approve of Devout losing Raise as well.



1. The new Geomancer easily sounds like the most peculiar class of the bunch given it seems like it's more of a support pseudo-mage now than attacking one. As such, I'm guessing that Counter Flood/Gaia's Revenge no longer exists, correct? I'm personally quite fine with that.

2. Given I've been nagging about weapons at every turn, I "have" to ask if Poles have any particular focus at present. So...do they?



1. This class also sounds rather peculiar, though that may just be because it sounds almost particular about positioning as Geomancer does. It still seems interesting though. I'm guessing that like the Dark Knight skills they're named and styled after, Dark Wave, Dark Aura and Souleater--not to be confused with Soul Eater--are actually Dark element, correct?

2. That said, all their jockeying for position seems like it may be undermined by access to Break provided Break is straight-out attempt to Petrify rather than a mere chance to Petrify while doing (Earth) damage. Then again, I'm one to talk about that since I vaguely remember giving Gafgarion some form of Break years ago, so meh.



1. Ah, so you combined the two and made them unisex as well as the replacement for Samurai with status immunities to boot. Easily the most interesting class to me, especially since I just realized that you could rather easily use Thief's sprite since you don't have a Thief class--itself quite interesting--among your generics and they'd still fit Performer more than decently. So that means that isn't "actually" a sprite problem with their being no female sprite for Bards or male sprite for Dancers (currently).

2. If Performers use of Instruments are modeled after Katana for Draw Out, then do you plan to have Instruments being capable of breaking/becoming "unstrung"?

3. Similarly, I just noticed something else about Instruments: you don't have them as an equip for Performer (or anyone else, including presumably Freelancer). So are Instruments now only instruments harnessed for magical murder rather than actual...instruments of regular murder? I'm...mostly fine with that actually; it's just going to take a bit of getting used to, especially if they're still in-game as relative fodder for Perform.

4. [Insert requisite question about "do Spears have a focus currently?" here.]



1. Despite Vaan's understandable misgivings about our pajama-wearing friends here, I actually think I like this class the most of all the ones presented so just because it's the most interesting take on Ninja I've seen and because it takes the A.I.'s tendencies (read: flaws) into account. Given that actual Ninja were less about the oxymoron of "visible stealth" and slinking around in the night clad in black than they were just people with seemingly normal jobs who were essentially just spies or even assassins when the time came, I'm more than fine with this variation. Ninja's constant need to be masters of nitoryuu in Final Fantasy has always been a bit tiresome and fictional fantasy ninja tend to be paradoxically really "loud" characters whether in personality or  justvisually; never thought I'd be seemingly arguing positively along lines that would also also work for Naruto given how much I've come to loathe that franchise, but there you have it. So the kamikaze, "please look at and try to kill me!" focus works, even if Shields seem a bit...weird despite still making sense with the theme.

That said, I really also like innate Fly on them rather than innate Waterwalking even if the whole Wuxia, wire-fighting thing is a Chinese thing rather than a Japanese one.

2. I'm kind of a bit surprised that you didn't give them a Shock-like or Self-Destruct-like ability as such, though I'm completely fine with that given that I don't really like such abilities for the most part.

3. Speaking of abilities, why "Envenomate" and "Aphony" instead of "Envenom" and "Aphonia"?

4. [Insert comment here about how one hopes that Addle's Confuse-adding isn't actually adding Confusion.]



1. Time Mage on steroids? I'm sold. [/actually concise comment]

2. Unlike ARENA, is Parted Way's version of Comet avoidable and/or Reflectable?



1. I might as well do these together since they're gendered--well, sexed--analogs. I think splitting up Lancer-esque classes is actually a rather neat idea, especially since it means you'll be able to split up the Lancet skill that we can't otherwise make currently among other things. Having Templar this far up also makes it the game a lot easier on poor mages; the same goes for Seal Evil & Undead units and presumably Dragonslayer & Dragon units. Finally, splitting up Steal Heart along gender lines also makes quite a bit of sense as well with the benefit of being able to just use the same ability in both classes.

2. That said, I'm a bit confused as to what Heartstrike does if it's opposite of Soulstrike and how it would differ from just any regular Spear (or Sword) strike.

3. Is this Jump a pseudo-analog of the "real" Jump? Or did you find some way to allow the use of the "real" Jump within a skill set that isn't composed of Jump? (Jump jump. [Slide slide.])



1. Oh, so Threaten, rather than Intimidate, is what loses Brave Fury. I suppose that makes sense given the name is unchanged from vanilla. I just got confused with my own patches for a bit. Regardless, I've gone back and slightly amended my commentary under Berserker with regards to what was actually Threaten, not Intimidate.

2. I originally had this question under Sentinel, but I figure that I'll move it down here given that this is the status section: "I like that you're still calling the buff-enabling status Veil. I'm still not decided on whether I want to call it that or Blessed or Astra or something else, so it's nice to see someone else decided upon it. Although I'm pretty sure I already know the answer, I figure I might as well ask: Neither Cursed nor Veil wear off normally do they? And, outside of dying, the only things that cancel them are each other, correct? That could be...problematic, especially if Veil is easily accessible."

3. Similarly, this was under feedback on Psion originally: "Interesting to note that Imperil outright places Oil status here. That would certainly be the easier way to handle those two statuses though...."

4. This was also similarly under feedback for Psion originally: "Please tell me that Confuse doesn't actually add Confusion status. Or are you making Confuse finite or at least making it so that the A.I. can't be abused by a Loss 'strategy'?"

5. Seeing Blood Suck status get made into another status that's actually still somewhat similar to it is interesting, especially since I doubt Gossip counts as a KO status. This is a rather welcome change given seemingly everyone else, myself included, replaces Blood Suck if it even gets touched at all. It's also rather amusing to think that if it is Blood Suck's replacement, then this means that Elmdor is officially a Gossip-y bitch instead of just looking like a stereotypical male one in all his Bishonen, sparkling vampire splendor.

(Please tell me Gossip status turns you hot pink instead of purple. Like...offensively pink. To, you know, reference Mediator/Orator. [/blatant lies])

That said, I can't help but wonder if you're perhaps giving the Gossip-statused AI a few too many options under the status, especially looking at situational things like Beg. Then again, I'm not really sure how cognizant the A.I. will act if it's not only stuck with one (suicidal) action and...this just made me realize I could so easily use Blood Suck's space for something I wanted to do and far more easily than what I had planned. Figures.

Anyway, I never did get around to testing skill set A7, assuming that's one that regulates abilities under Blood Suck status, so I have to ask: You have checked to make sure that a Gossip-inflicted unit has access to (read: will use) all those abilities, correct?

6. Also related to Gossip, if it is the Blood Suck replacement, then is it correct to assume that it's not going to be a status that generics can cause? This especially since Mediator seemingly no longer exists.

7. This is my final Dandy question (for now): Does Reraise status still exist? I would be so comfortable with it being dead actually, especially since you're trying to build Parted Ways more around preventative measures rather than "sandbagging" and Reraise's very existences seems like it would go against that even if it's "preventing" death--well, crystallization--arguably. I haven't seen any mention of it, so I figured I "should" ask.



Too long feedback over, I have to say it's a bit weird to realize belatedly that in addition to the usual patch casualties of Charge, Throw and Math Skill, you also completely got rid of Monk, Thief, Mediator, Samurai, Mime and Summoner. Pretty much every other patch on FFH so far has kept some version of at least one of those for generic use, so seeing them all gone already makes this rather different from other patches. Conceptually, things look much more well-defined than the initial version as far as classes and statuses go. That's hardly surprising given the first (umpteenth) draft of anything tends to be mediocre at best.

*points to own threads*

Good luck with all this. I'm sure I'll bother you again later after your eyes have recovered from this hideous abuse of them (if they ever do).


FREELANCERS:

I don't ever have any intention of making the AI controlled units change gear. It's mostly intended as a player-only gimmick, and it's not like you'll be fighting many Freelancers throughout the game, anyways. Well, except for that one fight against 11 of them.


ALCHEMISTS:

I wouldn't worry too much about Alchemists. They're not like their CCP counterparts which can inflict Charm, Confuse, and other such effects. The Alchemists in PW 2.0 can inflict Poison, Blind, Slow, Haste, Protect, Shell, Regen, and Reflect, with Slow, Poison, and Haste requiring items that can only be Poached, and the Reflect item being only available late-game.


SENTINELS:

Sentinels using Defend is a lot more dangerous than Defend ever was in Vanilla or Arena, simply because Sentinels are so much tankier than anything Vanilla had to offer. The best comparison I can make is to Tactics Ogre PSP's Knights using Phalanx. It's not deadly, but it sure puts a dent in potential damage that unit could take.

Protect, Shell, Veil, and Reflect are all based off of Faith and MA. I did this for a reason: before, there was almost no reason to ever have a 70 Faith unit become a warrior. Although buffs and debuffs are far more accurate now, this may make a player think twice before making a 40 Faith unit. Simply put, most jobs have Faith-based abilities now, meaning warrior units will find need for a high Faith, although this puts them at risk of being less tanky. It's all about decisions, really.

Taunt was tricky for me. The initial plan was to name it Duel or Brawl and make it affect both the user and an adjacent enemy. I figured nobody would want to use it in that case (or they'd just slap on Berserk or Immobilize immunity) and it'd be a wasted skill. Think of it like this- if it was an enemy you'd just walk away from to begin with, wouldn't the turn spent attempting to Taunt it be better spent sticking it with a sword?


SNIPERS:

Innate Concentrate is very much a test run. It will likely come off if I find that it's just too good for it's own, well, good. Regardless, that's what I -want- as far as the Aim skills go. I want Sniper to be feared and prepared for. Any job can break shit, I want the Sniper to be seen as the king of breaking shit. And I don't mean controllers (though that will likely be the case).

Longbows have more range, better targetting (arc) and some nifty effects, such as Add: Immobilize and Rapid Fire. Crossbows have less range, can only shoot forward (which I'd argue is a benefit at times), but have more power, and the procs are deadlier (they can break Shields and Weapons), but they lack the unique features Longbows have. I, personally, feel Crossbows are far better at this point, so a lot of rebalancing is going to need to be done, but Longbows are certainly far better than their Vanilla brethren even at present.


BERSERKERS:

I'm not sure we're on the same page as far as the Fury reducing skill is concerned. It's mostly meant to be used defensively on mages and other squishy -allies- to protect them from being midcharged and other such funsies.

Scream is basically Accumulate but with a high MP cost, but on a job that can use it very effectively. Think Jot5's version of it.


DEVOUT:

It's important to look at Devout as something different than a healer- it effectively only has Cure, Cure II, and Heal (party-wide healing) as its healing skills. Blind, Dia, Dia II, Holy, Silence, etc. all make it an effective attacker/debuffer as well. So it will certainly be playing the role of healer (especially early on), it can (and will) do so much more.

Staves have the (100%) formula, meaning it flat out won't do damage. It'll either inflict the status or Miss, meaning it won't knock out of Confuse/Sleep/etc. There's the Cadeuceus staff which heals on hit (like Healing Staff) and the Pure Staff, which cancels debuffs on hit. That's as far as non-buffing Staves go.


MAGI:

Wands will do MA*WP damage, since Staves no longer deal damage (though the Cadeuceus will still heal MA*WP damage).


PSIONS:

In regards to Faith... a wizard did it.

Your assumption about Flails is correct... they are indeed WP*WP. One Flail in particular has 2 Range to compensate for lack of weapon range otherwise.

Teleport will have a flat 50% fail rate if you attempt to move outside of your Move. Psions have 2 Move. Feeling lucky, punk? That said, I may up their Move to 3 and make Teleport flat out fail outside of Move range. It all depends on how pricy I make it for other jobs to use. As far as Float goes, it'll make you weak to Wind in this patch, so they're easy pickings for Scholars (especially since Aero magic has +2 Range compared to other magic families).


SEERS:

Cutting the Viking job was very hard for me, since I love their concept, I loved their skillset, and I love their sprites (which will be appearing elsewhere in PW 2.0- Lijj and the others did an amazing job on them and I don't want them to go to waste!), but I needed an early-game mage job to replace Scholars since Scholars are, quite frankly, very powerful. To that end, I decided to cut Vikings and make Seers, and make Water useful early-game, with Thunder being useful late-game.

Stun is going to deal minor damage and Cancel: Charging/Defending/Performing, but will have some CT (like Arena's Sinkhole) and will fail against units immune to Death, unlike other Cancel: Charging abilities.


CORSAIRS:

Lucky/Triple 777 was just a typo. It'll be Triple 777 in-game. Snake Eyes/Jackpot's names are correct. Gamble is both the name of the skillset and a skill. The Gamble skill inflicts a completely random buff or debuff on a unit. It's free, but very risky.

Coin Toss/Coin Flip hits randomly, dealing damage to either the user or an adjacent foe, with 50/50 odds. The damage is quite high so it, too, can be tricky. Felicity will work the same way, albeit with full HP restoration instead of damage. I just need to remember how to flag their targetting in the Patcher like I did before to get their targetting to work! :P

Knives have a very deadly focus: each Knife can inflict a debuff. Poison, Silence, Undead, Death, etc. They're not as strong as other weapons, but their debuffs can change the flow of battle if you're lucky.

Guns go pew and things die. That is their focus.


SCHOLARS:

Yes, I'm dreading balancing Bio... all that damage stacks up fast!

Scholars have been and will always be the status regulators of PW, thus why they have Esuna and Dispel. Although Esuna and Dispel are now only single-target, Esuna and Dispel heal and damage (respectively) if they can successfully land their effect. Given that buffs and debuffs are just so prevalent in PW, Esuna and Dispel will save your ass. Scholars have yet another trick I will show off, and it's something that no other patch has done before, but I want to test it extensively first before I show it off.


NECROMANCERS:

To blend a later question of yours into the discussion, Reraise exists still and it's on Necromancers. Reraise comes at a cost, however. I hope you're willing to sacrifice half of your unit's Max HP to give them a second chance at life. And that's ignoring the MP cost and CT attached to it.


GEOMANCER:

Counter Flood -at present- does not exist, but once I figure out how to change what skill the Reaction points to (which I vaguely recall was possible), it'll be becoming something else, I'm just not sure what yet. Quite possibly a Reaction that damages an enemy's MP when they strike you with magic.

Poles don't have a focus aside from having weird effects. One casts Prism, a proc-only spell that deals all-elemental damage and inflicts one of eight random debuffs. The ultimate Pole is Initial: Protect/Shell, while another inflicts Atheist. Pretty random effects, but each is geared towards a different playstyle.


HARBINGER:

Truthfully, despite them being named as such, I'm not sure how I feel about them being Dark Elemental. Granted, thematically it'd fit, not being able to harm Undead, but that also means they can be boosted/absorbed/blah blah blah, and I really don't like that aspect of it. For now, I think they'll be dark in name (and deception) only.

Break was always a concern of mine, but it's mitigated by a few factors. Namely, Harbinger is near the top of the Warrior job chain. Most people won't have a Harbinger with high Faith, MA, or MP to have good luck with Break. Break was created on Harbingers allllllll the way back in PW 1.0 as a way to give female Harbingers a chance to shine. This applies to Immobilize, Disable, and Stop to a lesser extent, as they're more accurate spells by nature. So, basically, although Break is an option, it's not the -best- option as far as they're concerned.


PERFORMERS:

Given that all Instruments are uniquely found via Move-Find Item now, they won't break. Finding the Instruments is a struggle enough, imagine them breaking on you! :P

Instruments cannot be equipped any longer, as they're used solely for Perform skills. The old Harps/Carpets are being turned into Throw-only items for, well, you'll see.

Spears give +2 Jump each, and many have deadly procs.


NINJA:

I was tempted to give them a Self-Destruct skill, simply because the thought of Ninja guts everywhere amused me. I showed some restraint though. As far as the skill names, I'm not sure. I guess I just liked how they sounded better?

And yes, Confuse is still a thing. I don't care much if people attempt to abuse Loss strats. There are a billion ways to break open FFT, and I'm sure there are two billion ways to break open PW 2.0. I don't care if there are some leaks. :P


SAGES:

Undecided on Comet. Likely answer is going to be "No, it's not Reflectable", but if it gets too abusive, that'll likely be changed.


TEMPLARS/VALKYRIES:

Heartstrike will be a more damaging version of a physical attack, but it'll be at the cost of MP and CT. Basically, it leaves you wide open and if you don't aim it properly, you're left whiffing the attack and down valuable MP. It's basically Charge, but with more impaling.

Jump is basically a fancy Wave Fist now. But with more impaling.


STATUSES:

The names Veil, Curse, and Imperil all come from FFXIII- a game that I know is hotly debated, but it did statuses right, so I decided to honor that here. Veil and Curse won't wear off until the unit dies, but they're easily dispelled/cured, and they consume a lot of MP to inflict (unless you're a Templar). To note, Imperil IS Oil... albeit Arena's form of Oil, with a fancy new name to go with it.

In regards to Reraise and Confuse, see Necromancer's and Psion's sections respectively.

Gossip still has to be heavily tested. For all I know, it might not work at all! It's been ages since I've done anything with Blood Suck so I'm going off of very old memories and faint knowledge of the mechanics. I'll keep you in the loop though!
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
"You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
  • Discord username: eternal248#1817

Selius

most of these skillsets sound pretty thought out, however i'm gonna reserve my judgment until the stat spread is laid out.

i'm a min maxer and so i value a job for its growths and how easily i can abuse the skill set of another class :)

Eternal

I'm waiting to see how many people will abuse Sentinels with Ninjutsu secondary. :P
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Selius

Do you have any changes planned for Agrias?

She's my favorite character.

The Damned

September 06, 2014, 12:35:23 pm #12 Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 03:43:32 am by The Damned
(I think I'll avoid using Sentinel with Ninjutsu secondary when [read: if] I get around to playing this just to be contrary. Speaking of being contrary, I'll probably try to use female Harbingers with high magical aspects just to due to your response there regarding Break and Break accessories. Well, that and the vague chess motif. Dark Queen, ahoy!

Similarly, I'll also probably try to use Corsair a lot despite my luck normally being horrible just because, as utterly terrible a class as it was, I found Gadgeeter a type of masochistic fun.)

Damn it. I had wanted to respond to this as soon as I saw it, but obviously my lazy ass didn't get around to doing that. As such, I'll make this a point-by-point reply instead of trying (and likely failing) to be "concise".

Regardless, I appreciate the quick response given all that I threw at you.

I see. I'm still not really sure that makes me feel much better, but if Equip Change/Re-equip still takes up an Act, then I guess it's going to be fine.

Wait. I should have asked something that's more important with regards to that actually: Can Re-equip still change out all equipment? Or are you going to limit to just weapons? If it's the latter, then I'm (probably) completely fine with it being Innate.


I see. I suppose that's a good way of doing it, though I'm pretty sure that the A.I. will still have or at least easily can have access to Poach-only Items. We'll see how it goes, though, yes, CCP style of Items was what I worried about even though I've yet to play that patch unfortunately. Still, even just Blind and Poison could be really damn annoying depending on how actively the A.I. uses it; you already know how much the A.I. obsesses over using Slow and Haste, so that's a potential issue too.


1. Oh, I'm not saying that Defend can't be useful; in fact, I think it's rather opposite even when you reduce the evasion as is necessary to account for Innate Weapon Guard. I was just stating it might be a problem given how overfond the A.I. is of using it when it could be using on other, potentially more appropriate actions. It doesn't get used in ARENA for a variety of reasons, but I would argue that people thinking it's weak isn't one of them. (Also, I've never really played a Tactics Orge game save a bit of some PSX one I've still never finished despite owning it, so I don't get that reference.)

2. I see with regards to Veil and spells on heavy armor units in general. That's a good idea. I sort of want to do the same thing for at least Embargo, but you too know how...difficult it is to try to balance that even if you're actively pushing for Faith to be actually useful unlike in vanilla.

3. I can see where you're coming from with regards to Taunt, especially on why you didn't make it simultaneously target the user. My biggest worry, however, comes from a combination of wondering how accurate is, assuming that Berserk is still infinite and the changes to some mage weapons. I mean, you ask why wouldn't I just stab something I'm going to walk away from instead and I can easily give you at least a couple of reasons: low Fury targets and distance weapons.

If Brave works like Fury now, then the lower the Fury, the more incentive to use Taunt over "stabby stabby" to me since "stabby stabby" does less damage. Hell, to me, there is extra incentive to use a low Fury (high-Faith) Sentinel, especially since you brought up the Ninjutsu Sentinel above, as Taunt units. There's even more incentive if Berserk is still infinite as presumably little-to-nothing save for Dead still cures it and with Staves at least doing no actual damage now. I mean, I get free buffs due to Berserk from an entire weapon line? Yes please.

Obviously, I'm not asking you to remake Staves or anything--unless you want to give them all Immune: Berserk, then feel free. My biggest issue with Taunt is actually Berserk still presumably being infinite, even if Taunt is close-range only and generally hits less than 50% of the time.

Shrug.

Regardless, you've my sympathies in trying to balance it.


1. Okay. So Innate Concentrate is a test. That's...fine I guess. Still discomforting, but fine. We'll see it how goes.

*looks at ARENA Hidden Knife*

At least you don't expect it to go well, so I have to give you credit for still wanting to try it out.

2. I see with regards to Longbows vs. Crossbows. Yeah, Longbows are annoying to try to balance, though at least you don't have as many as I tried to have. Ironically, I had--well, have--more of a problem with Crossbows just because they're so easy to make so very...plain even after getting rid of Guns unless you go way out of there with their procs or something.

Speaking of which, I can't say I really like Equipment Breaks being procs on them--or anything, really. That said, I have to ask two more things: How did you get that to work when it doesn't work in ARENA with Bow Gun? And doesn't that kinda step on Axes' feet?


1. Shrug. I guess that could work with Threaten and I'll admit that I didn't think of that potential use, just because I still wouldn't really use it for that most likely. Now that you bring it up, though, I have to ask: The mid-charge damage bonus is still around then?

2. I see with regards to Scream. I figured as much. I just wanted to be sure.


1. So Devout is far less about healing than I thought. Interesting even though now I vaguely recall this not being exactly new when comparing it to PW 1.0. I guess I'm just used to anything that's in White Mage's spot being the "magical healer class with a side order of Holy element nuke".

2. Staves sound...interesting. Sort of like I was trying to do with some of the Books to mimic the Measures from FFXII that the A.I. wouldn't use on allies if they did actual damage. I thought the whole 100% formula on weapons acted...wonky though. Then again, I legitimately can't recall ever getting around to testing that either and even if I did, it would be at least a few years ago by this point.


That makes sense about Wands. It's what I did as well. (Yes, I needed an entire spoiler just for these two sentences. Shut up.)


1. How long were you waiting to use that pun?

2. Okay. Good to hear. Most people seem to have them act like Whips if they change them at all, so I'm not surprised there's a 2-range one. Kinda of the opposite, really.

3. Oh, right. I forgot Psion has horrible Move. I still...don't like that you can outright skip across the map potentially though, especially now that you'll now be more successful trying to move +5 spaces beyond your initial Move. I honestly think that you should lock Teleport into Move range only and increase Psion's Move back to 3 since Teleport's already one of the best Movements in the game even when you can't miracle-Move. I'm fine with having it tested out as it is now though I suppose.

4. Good to know about Float, though I still don't understand why people tend to want to nerf that status even if said nerf actually makes sense in a realistic--well, magical realism--way. Shrug. That said, now I'm not sure how I feel about any generic (non-monster) class being always weak to an element and always immune to another, but we'll see....


1. I'll be honest: I completely forgot you had actually had Viking in PW 1.0. I was just making the comparison because that's where I got the ideas for some skills for Berserker in Embargo and because apparently Viking tends to have a Water & Lightning focus the few times it shows up.

Now that I've remembered though, I have to ask this, not to insult Lijj and whoever else worked on the sprite (if anyone did): Did you (or someone else) ever figure out what was wrong with their arms? Was it just a sprite Type problem like what's going with Thief (and Scholar) in ARENA currently?

2. I see with regards to Stun. That's good, especially that bosses are immune to it. That that isn't normally the case is part of what makes me...wary of Cancel: Charging & Performing abilities as a whole regardless of the patch, including my own.


1. I see with regards to Lucky Triple 777, even though I'll admit that I liked Lucky 777 better between it not being as redundant and being a (closer) reference to one of Zidane's skills from FFIX. I can see why you might want Triple 777 since you have another skill called "Lady Luck" and might feel like that would be Luck-overload otherwise, but I just like Lucky 777 better.

2. I'll also admit that I still don't really understand if Snake Eyes and Jackpot are actually the same skill or separate skills. Given the way you phrased it, I'm guessing they're separate skills, but it's difficult for me to tell.

3. I'll also (also) admit that the revelation of "Gamble" being both the name of the entire skill set and a skill within that same skill set is actually...even more confusing than what I was initially actually asking. Given I didn't notice the skill set name, the way you had typed it made me think that you meant Gamble was the overall name for the only subgroup of Gadgeteer-inspired abilities, not for everything within the skill set including a specific ability called "Gamble". If I had seen Inception, then this is probably where I would make one of those tired, Xzibit-ytmnd-esque meme jokes related to it. Wouldn't it be (a lot) less confusing if you just named the skill set as whole "Risk" (or something else)?

4. That said, Gamble (the skill) sounds quite interesting. It makes me wonder if the A.I. will use it though....

5. So I guess that's a "no" to Coin Toss/Flip using Gil. Good, I guess. Nice to know it's pretty strong regardless. That said, I really don't like the idea of Felicity restoring full HP, especially if that restoration would damage the Undead. We'll see how it goes though I suppose.

6. As far as getting targeting to work, it's been years since I tested--sigh--and I'd have to find my notes which may...take a while if I even wrote it down, but in looking at FFPatcher's toggles just now, I think I remember what worked: Just make sure that "Auto", "Target Self", "Hit Enemies", "Hit Allies", "Random Fire", "Linear Attack",  "Hit Caster" and "Targeting" are checked off in the bottom box. I think everything else is incidental, though it doesn't hurt to have "Follow Target" checked off I guess.

As far as A.I. Behavior, I vaguely remember checking off "Target Enemies" and "Linear Attack" being enough to work for Coin Toss/Flip-like ability I had, though that used "Add Status", not "HP". I mean, you don't really want the A.I. to know something is actually "Random Hits" in most cases since then it won't really use it all that often, but if you want to be honest with it, then maybe it will work even though they have Guns, which may take priority anyway given their range and ignoring evasion. Felicity would obviously work better with the "Target Allies" checked off instead though and the Gadgeteer-inspired abilities would be best off with "Ignore Range?" and probably "Target Allies" instead of "Target Enemies".

Well, actually, in thinking about it a bit more, "Triple/Lucky 777" and "Lady Luck" would probably be better off as "Target Allies" whereas "Snake Eyes" and "Fortuna Major" would probably better as "Target Enemies". Shrug.

7. I see with regards to Knives and Guns. They don't seem to have changed from PW 1.0 then, as is the case with most weapon types I explicitly asked about I suppose. Not too surprising though, even if Guns are vaguely disappointing, though I mean that in general rather than with regards to just your patch.


1. I suppose it's rather fitting after commenting so heavily on Corsair that the first thing I say after it is "Good luck" with regards to balancing Bio and Bio II.

2. So Esuna and Dispel heal and damage respectively now? Interesting, especially since the A.I. didn't really need to be incentivized to use them like it does with Protect or Shell, though I doubt that's why they heal and damage now anyway.

3. As far as mysterious abilities go, that's a tall order if no one has done it yet, which itself seems a bit weird even with as few patches actually get completed around here--I'm including myself here on the "not completed" side. I'll just say that I'd like to think the amount of effort going into it will end up worth it, especially since I can probably guess what it is going by the fact that this is Scholar. Ergo I imagine that...display issues are part of the problem and have to wonder if it will need its own status. Regardless, good luck with that.


1. I see with regards to Reraise and approve of the limitation, though, again, I have to wonder if the A.I. even will use it if causes (so much) damage despite the buff. Then again, on this issue, it's not nearly as important (to me) if the A.I. is capable of using it; just that player is rather limited in abusing it. I'm guessing this means that Dragon Spirit is dead or, at least, doesn't add Reraise anymore?

2. I've only thought to ask this now after commenting on your reply to Psion, even though I figured that this is something you would have pointed out if this was the case: Necromancer isn't innately Always: Undead, is it?


1. I see with regards to Counter Flood. Given he did the workbook for it, Raven probably knows the definite answer to where it looks to and how to change that location, but I've been trying not to bother him since Jot5 started, so meh.

2. I see with regards to Poles. Those sound vaguely familiar from PW 1.0, so it fits with what I said above under Corsair about most overall weapon focuses not changing all that much since then.

That said, you may need to redesign Prism since I'm almost certain that procs that do damage can't also cause statuses (and vice versa). That's part of the reason Coral Sword should be changing in ARENA since the Water Ball on that thing is never going to add Frog. So, unfortunately, I don't think any of those debuffs are going to work after Prism's damage (or absorption) is done.

Of course, I could be wrong (yet again) because, yet again, I haven't tested things in years. Also, you could well have tested it to be sure that wasn't happening, but I think Prism not working as you intended is the case if you haven't tested it.

Still, the idea of it is appreciated, especially since the vanilla version of Octagon Rod/Pole never made any damn sense. Even the vanilla version of White Staff made more sense than a weapon that outright sabotages the only class that can ever use it and White Staff wasn't working as intended. I guess Gokuu Rod/Pole had the same issue given it inflicted Innocent/Atheist/Doubtful even in vanilla and only Oracle could use it, but at least that wasn't actively curing your enemies of debuffs.

Meh. I'm rambling like always.


1. I see with regards to the Dark Knight-inspired moves not necessarily being Dark element. I've had a similar problem, so I can understand the reticence.

2. With regards to Break, I suppose we shall see.


1. Oh, so Instruments are Move-Find-only items? That's quite interesting. Good to know they won't break either.

2. I see with regards to Harps & Cloths' spaces becoming fodder for Throw or something like it, that's also rather interesting. I suppose it's not that surprising unlike the above given you're obviously using Katana's space for the now ten Instruments.

Anyway, I've noted now that you're insistent on calling Instruments "Instruments" instead of "Harps". So does that mean you're going to try to have more than Harps as "Instruments" even though there's unfortunately no real sprites to do that with?

3. I see with regards to Spears. That also doesn't seem to have changed.


1. Well, I for one am personally glad you resisted the doubtless strong temptation of giving your version of Ninja a Self-Destruct skill despite their kamikaze nature. It's ever so awkward to have to clean up three sets of ribcages and skulls from only one's person exploded body. Ivalice's janitors--or, I suppose, Flanitors seeing your latest thread--appreciate your discretion.

2. With regards to the names, as with everything in your patch, it's up to you (and Pride?) ultimately. I was merely wondering.

3. *pouts at Confuse still existing* Fine. I just find the Loss strategy inane, even with as many SCCs and SSCCs as I did.


I see with regards to Comet. I personally think that being subject to Reflect would be fine and it's probably something I'll bug FFMaster about in ARENA should he (ever) return. Here, though, as I just said with Ninja's Ninjutsu names--try to say that three times fast--above, it's up to you.


1. I see with regards to Heartstrike. I really should have suspected it was a Charge analog given Charge is otherwise dead and gone and you hadn't mentioned it. I suppose I thought either it was completely gone or was still on Sniper or had gone to Berserker instead of being this far up.

Regardless, there's just the problem of the A.I. (or some player) accidentally canceling it by moving if it's a Charge-esque attack, even though I know there's some hack that should be able to prevent that. (Oh, right. It's one of FFMaster's hacks, though it's not listed on the front page of his thread and I don't think he or anyone ever fully tested it. Shrug.)

2. "Jump is basically a fancy Wave Fist now. But with more impaling." Aw. Profound sadness. Why must you still be out of grasp of replication despite having an entire separate status, "real" Jump?

Anyway, I "have" to ask: does said pseudo-Jump actually factor into the amount of Jump stat you have into the attack, hence the +2 Jump on Spears? Or did you just do that to give Spears an identity sort of like how they all have +1 Speed (at least) in ARENA currently?


1. Good to know FFXIII was good for something besides "Blinded By The Light" then. I already knew where the names had come, however, despite never playing FFXIII (and never having the intention of doing so) given my extensive status research for the sake of Embargo. I was merely commenting that it was nice to see someone else decided upon it given my usual indecisiveness.

2. As for "easily dispelled/cured" with regards to Veil and Cursed, then I'm guessing that means that Dispel and Esuna--among other things--get rid of them respectively then, correct?

3. With regards to Oil being Imperil, I was also already aware of that. I was merely commenting that making them the same thing seems a lot easier than my attempt to have them both be separate statuses (in theory).

That said, ARENA's version of Oil doesn't make the afflicted unit weak to Holy or Dark elements (thankfully), so that's a difference you have from ARENA. I hope that works out for you, especially if Demi is still around and a percentage attack, though I suppose you could easily avoid abuse there by not making it Dark.

4. I see with regards to Gossip. Provided I can get things to work as well as finishing up what I'm currently working on, then I wouldn't mind trying to test it for you. As said, I've been meaning to test out Blood Suck status for a while and this feels like a stupid oversight on my part given some other things.

Regardless, thanks for offering to keep me in the loop.
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

Aiolon

Alchemists huh, im worried about this:

QuoteALCHEMISTS:


I wouldn't worry too much about Alchemists. They're not like their CCP counterparts which can inflict Charm, Confuse, and other such effects. The Alchemists in PW 2.0 can inflict Poison, Blind, Slow, Haste, Protect, Shell, Regen, and Reflect, with Slow, Poison, and Haste requiring [highlight=yellow]items that can only be Poached, and the Reflect item being only available late-game.[/highlight]


makes me think you need to poach a lot to make them actually useful unless all you want are Potions, Eters and P.Downs.


Suggestion for an item:

Aoe Items (Potions,buff items)

considering the changes made on how to obtain items i suggest to give them stronger version of Potions and making an AOE effect Potion or skill that makes items aoe it would be awesome but to overpowered i think, specially for items such as Elixirs  :roll:
Alchemist its a very good class as long as you have the items they need.
having the items on shop its fantastic but with the changes mentioned starting to think i won't be using them until i unlock fur shop or maybe i misunderstood something.

Quote
Do you have any changes planned for Agrias?

She's my favorite character.



YES PLEASE! need more Love for Lady Agrias the +Holy Knight+ adding more skills to her awesome skill set, Stasis sword is awesome but she needs more badass skills (grand cross, Holy, random skills idk but if posible make her stronger just not like Orlandu the Chuck Norris of the game)
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Wizzard: yes.

Eternal

Quote from: The Damned on September 06, 2014, 12:35:23 pm
(I think I'll avoid using Sentinel with Ninjutsu secondary when [read: if] I get around to playing this just to be contrary. Speaking of being contrary, I'll probably try to use female Harbingers with high magical aspects just to due to your response there regarding Break and Break accessories. Well, that and the vague chess motif. Dark Queen, ahoy!

Similarly, I'll also probably try to use Corsair a lot despite my luck normally being horrible just because, as utterly terrible a class as it was, I found Gadgeeter a type of masochistic fun.)

Damn it. I had wanted to respond to this as soon as I saw it, but obviously my lazy ass didn't get around to doing that. As such, I'll make this a point-by-point reply instead of trying (and likely failing) to be "concise".

Regardless, I appreciate the quick response given all that I threw at you.

I see. I'm still not really sure that makes me feel much better, but if Equip Change/Re-equip still takes up an Act, then I guess it's going to be fine.

Wait. I should have asked something that's more important with regards to that actually: Can Re-equip still change out all equipment? Or are you going to limit to just weapons? If it's the latter, then I'm (probably) completely fine with it being Innate.


I see. I suppose that's a good way of doing it, though I'm pretty sure that the A.I. will still have or at least easily can have access to Poach-only Items. We'll see how it goes, though, yes, CCP style of Items was what I worried about even though I've yet to play that patch unfortunately. Still, even just Blind and Poison could be really damn annoying depending on how actively the A.I. uses it; you already know how much the A.I. obsesses over using Slow and Haste, so that's a potential issue too.


1. Oh, I'm not saying that Defend can't be useful; in fact, I think it's rather opposite even when you reduce the evasion as is necessary with Innate Weapon Guard.. I was just stating it might be a problem given how overfond the A.I. is of using it when it could be using on other, potentially more appropriate actions. It doesn't get used in ARENA for a variety of reasons, but I would argue that people thinking it's weak isn't one of them. (Also, I've never really played a Tactics Orge gane save a bit of some PSX one I've still never finished despite owning it, so I don't get that reference.)

2. I see with regards to Veil and spells on heavy armor units in general. That's a good idea. I sort of want to do the same thing for at least Embargo, but you too know how...difficult it is to try to balance that even if you're actively pushing for Faith to be actually useful unlike in vanilla.

3. I can see where you're coming from with regards to Taunt, especially on why you didn't make it simultaneously target the user. My biggest worry, however, comes from a combination of wondering how accurate is, assuming that Berserk is still infinite and the changes to some mage weapons. I mean, you ask why wouldn't I just stab something I'm going to walk away from instead and I can easily give you at least a couple of reasons: low Fury targets and distance weapons.

If Brave works like Fury now, then the lower the Fury, the more incentive to use Taunt over "stabby stabby" to me since "stabby stabby" does less damage. Hell, to me, there is extra incentive to use a low Fury (high-Faith) Sentinel, especially since you brought up the Ninjutsu Sentinel above, as Taunt units. There's even more incentive if Berserk is still infinite, presumably little-to-nothing save for Dead still cures it and with Staves at least doing no actual damage now. I mean, I get free buffs due to Berserk from an entire weapon line? Yes please.

Obviously, I'm not asking you to remake Staves or anything--unless you want to give them all Immune: Berserk, then feel free. My biggest issue with Taunt is actually Berserk still presumably being infinite, even if Taunt is close-range only and generally hits less than 50% of the time.

Shrug.

Regardless, you've my sympathies in trying to balance it.


1. Okay. So Innate Concentrate is a test. That's...fine I guess. Still discomforting, but fine. We'll see it how goes.

*looks at ARENA Hidden Knife*

At least you don't expect it to go well, so I have to give you credit for still wanting to try it out.

2. I see with regards to Longbows vs. Crossbows. Yeah, Longbows are annoying to try to balance, though at least you don't have as many as I tried to have. Ironically, I had--well, have--more of a problem with Crossbows just because they're so easy to make s1o very...plain even after getting rid of Guns unless you go way out of there with their procs or something.

Speaking of which, I can't say I really like Equipment Breaks being procs on them--or anything, really. That said, I have to ask two more things: How did you get that to work when it doesn't work in ARENA with [Crossbow]? And doesn't that kinda step on Axes's feet?


1. Shrug. I guess that could work with Threaten and I'll admit that I didn't think of that potential use, just because I still wouldn't really use it for that most likely. Now that you bring it up, though, I have to ask: The midcharge damage bonus is still around then?

2. I see with regards to Scream. I figured as much. I just wanted to be sure.


1. So Devout is far less about healing than I thought. Interesting even though now I vaguely recall this not being exactly new compared 1.0 PW. I guess I'm just used to anything that's in White Mage's spot being the "magical healer class with a side order of Holy nuke".

2. Staves sound...interesting. Sort of like I was trying to do with some of the Books to mimic the Measures from FFXII that the A.I. wouldn't use on allies if they did actual damage. I thought the whole 100% formula on weapons acted...wonky though. Then again, I legitimately can't recall ever getting around to testing that either and even if I did, it would be at least a few years ago by this point.


That makes sense about Wands. It's what I did as well. (Yes, I needed an entire spoiler just for these two sentences. Shut up.)


1. How long were you waiting to use that pun?

2. Okay. Good to hear. Most people seem to have them act like Whips if they change them at all, so I'm not surprised there's a 2-range one. Kinda of the opposite, really.

3. Oh, right. I forgot Psion has horrible Move. I still...don't like that you can outright skip across the map potentially though, especially now that you'll now be more successful trying to move +5 spaces beyond your initial Move. I honestly think that you should lock Teleport into Move range only and increase Psion's Move back to 3 since Teleport's already one of the best Movements in the game even when you can't miracle Move. I'm fine with having it tested out as it is now though I suppose.

4. Good to know about Float, though I still don't understand why people tend to want to nerf that status even it said nerf actually makes sense in realism--magical realism--way. Shrug. That said, now I'm not sure how I feel about any generic (non-monster) class being always weak to an element and always immune to another, but we'll see....


1. I'll be honest: I completely forgot you had actually had Viking in 1.0 PW. I was just making the comparison because that's where I got the ideas for some skills for Berserker in Embargo and because apparently Viking tends to have a Water & Lightning focus the few times it shows up.

Now that I've remembered though, I have to ask this, not to insult Lijj and whoever else worked on the sprite (if anyone did): Did you (or someone else) ever figure out what was wrong with their arms? Was it just a sprite Type problem like what's going with Thief in ARENA currently?

2. I see with regards to Stun. That's good, especially that bosses are immune to it. That that isn't normally the case is part of what makes me...wary of Cancel: Charging & Performing abilities as a whole regardless of the patch, including my own.


1. I see with regards to Lucky Triple 777, even though I'll admit that I liked Lucky 777 better between it not being as redundant and being a (closer) reference to one of Zidane's skills from FFIX. I can see why you might want Triple 777 since you have another skill called "Lady Luck" and might feel like that would be Luck-overload otherwise, but I just like Lucky 777 better.

2. I'll also admit that I still don't really understand if Snake Eyes and Jackpot are actually the same skill or separate skills. Given the way you phrased it, I'm guessing they're separate skills, but it's difficult for me to tell.

3. I'll also (also) admit that the revelation of "Gamble" being both the name of the entire skill set and a skill within that same skill set is actually...even more confusing than what I was initially actually asking. Given I didn't notice the skill set name, the way you had typed it made me think that you meant Gamble was the overall name for the only subgroup of Gadgeeter-inspired abilities, not for everything within the skill set including an ability called "Gamble". If I had seen Inception, then this is probably where I would make one of those tired, Xzibit-ytmnd-esque meme jokes related to it. Wouldn't it be (a lot) less confusing if you just named the skill set as whole "Risk"?

4. That said, Gamble (the skill) sounds quite interesting. It makes me wonder if the A.I. will use it though....

5. So I guess that's a "no" to Coin Toss/Flip using Gil. Good, I guess. Nice to know it's pretty strong regardless. That said, I really don't like the idea of Felicity restoring full HP, especially if that restoration would damage the Undead. We'll see how it goes though I suppose.

6. As far as getting targetting to work, it's been years since I tested--sigh--and I'd have to find my notes which may...take a while if I even wrote it down, but in looking at FFPatcher's toggles just now, I think I remember what worked: Just make sure that "Auto", "Target Self", "Hit Enemies", "Hit Allies", "Random Fire", "Linear Attack",  "Hit Caster" and "Targeting" are checked off in the bottom box. I think everything else is incidental, though it doesn't hurt to have "Follow Target" checked off I guess.

As far as A.I. Behavior, I vaguely remember checking off "Target Enemies" and "Linear Attack" being enough to work for Coin Toss/Flip-like ability I had, though that used "Add Status", not "HP". I mean, you don't really want the A.I. to know something is actually "Random Hits" in most cases since then it won't really use it all that often, but if you want to be honest with it, then maybe it will work even though they have Guns, which may take priority anyway given their range and ignoring evasion. Felicity would obviously work better with the "Target Allies" checked off instead though and the Gadgeeter-inspired abilities would be best off with "Ignore Range?" and probably "Target Allies" instead of "Target Enemies".

Well, actually, in thinking about it a bit more, "Triple/Lucky 777" and "Lady Luck" would probably better off as "Target Allies" whereas "Snake Eyes" and "Fortuna Major" would probably better as "Target Enemies". Shrug.

7. I see with regards to Knives and Guns. They don't seem to have changed from PW 1.0 then, as is the case with most weapon types I explicitly asked about I suppose. Not to surprising though, even if Guns are vaguely disappointing, though I mean that in general rather than just with regards to your patch.


1. I suppose it's rather fitting after commenting so heavily on Corsair that the first thing I say after it is "Good luck" with regards to balancing Bio and Bio II.

2. So Esuna and Dispel heal and damage respectively now? Interesting, especially since the A.I. didn't really need to be incentivized to use them like it does with Protect or Shell, though I doubt that's why they heal and damage now anyway.

3. As far as mysterious abilities go, that's a tall order if no one has done it yet, which itself seems a bit weird even with as few patches actually get completed around here--I'm including myself here on the "not completed" side. I'll just say that I'd like to think the amount of effort going into it will end up worth it, especially since I can probably guess what it is going by the fact that this is Scholar. Ergo I imagine that...display issues are part of the problem and have to wonder if it will need its status. Regardless, good luck with that.


1. I see with regards to Reraise and approve of the limitation, though, again, I have to wonder if the A.I. even will use it if causes (so much) damage despite the buff. Then again, on this issue, it's not nearly as important (to me) if the A.I. is capable of using it; just that player is rather limited in abusing it. I'm guessing this means that Dragon Spirit is dead or, at least, doesn't add Reraise anymore?

2. I've only thought to ask this now after commenting on your reply to Psion, even though I figured that this is something you would have pointed out if this was the case: Necromancer isn't innately Always: Undead, is it?


1. I see with regards to Counter Flood. Given he did the workbook for it, Raven probably knows the definite answer to where it looks to and how to change that location, but I've been trying not to bother him since Jot5 started, so meh.

2. I see with regards to Poles. Those sound vaguely familiar from 1.0 PW, so it fits with what I said above under Corsair about most overall weapon focuses not changing all that much since then.

That said, you may need to redesign Prism since I'm almost certain that procs that do damage can't also cause statuses (and vice versa). That's part of the reason Coral Sword should be changing in ARENA since the Water Ball on that thing is never going to add Frog. So, unfortunately, I don't think any of those debuffs are going to work after Prism's damage (or absorption) is done.

Of course, I could be wrong (yet again) because, yet again, I haven't tested things in years. Also, you could well have tested it to be sure that wasn't happening, but I think Prism not working as you intended is the case if you haven't tested it.

Still, the idea of it is appreciated, especially since the vanilla version of Octagon Rod/Pole never made any damn sense. Even the vanilla version of White Staff made more sense than a weapon that outright sabotages the only class that can ever use it and White Staff wasn't working as intended. I guess Gokuu Rod/Pole had the same issue given it inflicted Innocent/Atheist/Doubtful even in vanilla and only Oracle could use it, but at least that wasn't actively debuffing your enemies.

Meh. I'm rambling like always.


1. I see with regards to the Dark Knight-inspired moves not necessarily being Dark element. I've had a similar problem, so I can understand the reticence.

2. With regards to Break, I suppose we shall see.


1. Oh, so Instruments are Move-Find-only items? That's quite interesting. Good to know they won't break either.

2. I see with regards to Harps & Cloths' spaces becoming fodder for Throw or something like it, that's also rather interesting. I suppose it's not that surprising unlike the above given you're obviously using Katana's space for the now ten Instruments.

Anyway, I've noted now that you're insistent on calling Instruments "Instruments" instead of "Harps". So does that mean you're going to try to have more than Harps as "Instruments" even though there's unfortunately no real sprites to do that with?

3. I see with regards to Spears. That also doesn't seem to have changed.


1. Well, I for one am personally glad you resisted the doubtless strong temptation of giving your version of Ninja a Self-Destruct skill despite their kamikaze nature. It's ever so awkward to have to clean up three sets of ribcages and skulls from only one's person exploded body. Ivalice's janitors--or, I suppose, Flanitors seeing your latest thread--appreciate your discretion.

2. With regards to the names, as with everything in your patch, it's up to you (and Pride?) ultimately. I was merely wondering.

3. *pouts at Confuse still existing* Fine. I just find the Loss strategy inane, even with as many SCCs and SSCCs as I did.


I see with regards to Comet. I personally think that being subject to Reflect would be fine and it's probably something I'll bug FFMaster about in ARENA should he (ever) return. Here, though, as I just said with Ninja's Ninjutsu names--try to say that three times fast--it's up to you.


1. I see with regards to Heartstrike. I really should have suspected it was a Charge analog given Charge is otherwise dead and gone and you hadn't mentioned it. I suppose I thought either it was completely gone or was still on Sniper or had gone to Berserker instead of being this far up.

Regardless, there's just the problem of the A.I. (or some player) accidentally canceling it by moving if it's a Charge-esque attack, even though I know there's some hack that  should be able to prevent that. (Oh, right. It's one of FFMaster's hacks, though it's not listed on the front page of his thread and I don't think he or anyone ever fully tested it. Shrug.)

2. "Jump is basically a fancy Wave Fist now. But with more impaling." Aw. Profound sadness. Why must still be out of grasp of replicating despite having an entire separate status, "real" Jump?

Anyway, I "have" to ask: does said pseudo-Jump actually factor into the amount of Jump stat you have into the attack, hence the +2 Jump on Spears? Or did you just do that to give Spears an identity sort of like how they all have +1 Speed (at least) in ARENA currently?


1. Good to know FFXIII was good for something besides "Blinded By The Light" then. I already knew where the names had come, however, despite not playing FFXIII (and having the intention of never doing so) given my extensive status research for the sake of Embargo. I was merely commenting to see someone else decided upon it given my usual indecisiveness.

2. As for "easily dispelled/cured" with regards to Veil and Cursed, then I'm guessing that means that Dispel and Esuna, among other things, get rid of them then?

3. With regards to Oil being Imperil, I was also already aware of that. I was merely commenting that making them the same thing seems a lot easier than my attempt to have them both be separate statuses (in theory).

That said, ARENA's version of Oil doesn't make the afflicted unit weak to Holy or Dark elements (thankfully), so that's a difference you have from ARENA. I hope that works out for you, especially if Demi is still around and a percentage attack, though I suppose you could easily avoid abuse there by not making it Dark.

4. I see with regards to Gossip. Provided I can things to work as well as finishing up what I'm currently working on, then I wouldn't mind trying to test it for you. As said, I've been meaning to test out Blood Suck status for a while and this feels like a stupid oversight on my part given some other things.

Regardless, thanks for offering to keep me in the loop.



FREELANCERS:

I've been considering asking the ASMers to see if they could make Equip Change consume 30-50 CT instead of a full turn, but I'm worried about how potentially broken it'd be. It'd certainly make it more usable though. And yes, it can change ALL equipment.


ALCHEMISTS:

The AI won't be able to use Elixirs, Chocobo Feathers, or Spider Silks. Period.


SENTINELS:

Phalanx in TO PSP is a Knight skill that doesn't use the user's full turn and makes all damage dealt to it reduced to 1. It's a pain in the ass.

I actually really like the idea of Staves being Immune: Berserk. I think I'll have to consider that for the future (there'll be an Equipment topic sometime in the near future). And Taunt won't be 100%- probably around 50% is more likely, so don't worry too much about that potential aspect of it.


SNIPERS:

In regards to the equipment break procs, Axes proc the Divine Knight skills- Shellbust Stab, Blastar Punch, and Icewolf Bite, which means they deal damage in addition to the break. The Crossbow breaks are Weapon Break and Shield Break, so they don't deal additional damage (unless the enemy lacks one already), and they cover the equipment types that Axes don't.


BERSERKERS:

Yes, the midcharge bonus damage remains, but I'm pushing for a new ASM Support called Combat Casting (that'll be on Devouts or Seers, probably) that'll reduce damage taken while charging.


DEVOUTS:

To clarify the Holy nuking part, Devouts and Magi share a similar skill. Holy (which is evadeable, I might add), deals heavy Holy damage to a single unit and inflicts Faith. The Magus' Shadowflare (which is also evadeable), deals heavy Dark damage to a single unit and inflicts Innocent. The cost of using Holy- or Shadowflare- is that they lack AoE, and using them means not getting the benefits of their Dia/Dark family spells (such as 100% accuracy, or ignoring Counter Magic/Reflect). So nuking is still possible... just not as easy to do (and you'll see why later), and not really advised.


PSIONS:

Maybe I misspoke- the chances to move beyond your Move with Teleport would be -less- than Vanilla's, not greater. Making it greater would just be silly!

Monsters with Innate: Float/Levitate will have Halve: Wind to compensate. Float is actually a decent status- anything that helps with mobility will be nice, given how hard it is to boost Move in PW 2.0. It's just that in Vanilla, you could boost your Move incredibly easily, and Float was fairly inaccurate and didn't have much use when you had a ton of other options.


SEERS:

Vikings were fixed ages ago.


CORSAIRS:

Snake Eyes and Jackpot are two totally different skills. As far as names go, the Corsair's skill and skillset names have changed a lot over just the past month. Don't be surprised if they change again. I have yet to find names that really stick with them.

Guns will be more fun to use in practice than they are in theory. Pew pew.


SCHOLARS:

Bio and Bio II will be fine after a bit of testing, IMO. The big difference between the two is that Bio is faster and costs less MP, but deals less damage and has a lower Poison proc chance. Bio II deals heavier damage, but goes off much slower and consumes a lot more MP, but will always inflict Poison. So whichever you choose depends on the situation. If you need to rapidly finish off a foe, Bio is probably the way to go, whereas against tankier units, Bio II is better.

And no, it's no tall order. In fact, I'd say it's a rather small order...


NECROMANCERS:

Dragon Spirit (Second Chance) will still be around in its original form, but will be greatly limited in its distribution. I'm not sure on the details yet, but it'll likely be monster only.

Necromancers are not Always: Undead.


GEOMANCERS:

Hmm. That information about Prism/Arena Coral Sword is good to know. I'll have to keep that in mind, since it changes some of my weapons. Also, Octagon Rod in Vanilla was designed that way, I believe, to offset its great power and that it could be store bought (I think?)


PERFORMERS:

Attacking someone with an 'Instrument' sounds better than attacking someone with a 'Harp'. That's why I use that verbage- it'll still only be Harps.


VALKYRIES/TEMPLARS:

Spears just grant +2 Jump so that people using them can be Dragoon cosplayers.


STATUSES:

Yes, Veil/Curse can be Dispelled/Esuna'd.

Imperil working on Holy/Dark is completely intended. Demi doesn't exist- normally- as it does in other patches, and all other forms of percentile damage will flat out fail on units immune to Death, or if the status it tries to inflict can't be inflicted.


@Selius: That topic is also coming in the near future. I'll just say this: Beowulf will be your new favorite. :P

@Aiolon: AoE items aren't possible at the moment (at least, without heavy ASM), so that won't be happening, and it steps on the toes of other skills. And Poaching, while useful, is far from necessary. The only Alchemist Items that won't be able to be bought are Chocobo Feathers, Elixirs, Malboro Tentacles, and Spider Silks. Phoenix Downs are very expensive, but can be purchased.
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
"You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
  • Discord username: eternal248#1817

Aiolon

okay i understand the problems of AOE items. kept me wondering why no one did it before guess you just answered that
and yeah it would have an effect over healing / buffing skills. it would be OP

and thanks for the answer about exclusive poaching items guess i will have to murder chocobos more often.  :wark:



  • Modding version: PSX
Wizzard: I have returned once again.
Chocobo: Wark?
Wizzard: yes.

The Damned

September 09, 2014, 01:56:00 am #16 Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 03:46:33 am by The Damned
(This response will be concise for once, so I won't use spoilers.)

With regards to Equip Change/Re-equip: I can't say that I like the idea of it still affecting all equipment, but as long as it still uses up an Act, then that's probably the best thing that can be done to balance it without going overboard. Of course, it's up to you whether you want to ask someone to do the -CT thing (or do it yourself). Alternately, you may decide to use the hack someone made where it uses up Move rather than Act, though I don't know if that was ever tested....

With regards to Alchemist's Items: Well, it's good to know that those three won't be a problem then. Still not sure how having access to Blind and Poison through Item will affect A.I., but I suppose we'll see.

With regards to Staves possibly all getting Immune: Berserk: As I said, feel free to use the idea. I'm currently not using it (I think), but even if I was, I'd probably still suggest it since it seems like it would be helpful to prevent what I said I saw as one of the biggest potential problems with Taunt.

With regards to the mid-charge bonus damage remaining: I'm guessing that means it's still 150% then? Not sure how I feel about oddly, even with "Combat Casting", despite the fact that that is the default damage from vanilla.

With regards to possible Teleport confusion: The "greater" aspect I was talking about was how the fact that it's a flat 50% failure rate basically means that once you get beyond the point where vanilla Teleport would start giving you failure rates of more than 50%, you've unintentionally improved it. So while, yes, the chances are lower within an extra 1-5 Move range, they are now greater within a +5 Move range unless, of course, I'm still misunderstanding.

With regards to Scholar's mystery ability: Well, if it's what I still suspect it is, then that's even better to hear really.

With regards to Octagon Rod in vanilla: I can see why it was designed the way it was in terms of trying to balance it. I just think that said design is stupid and excessive given how little Faith actually matters in vanilla and how it basically undermines pretty much everything Oracle can do in terms of support sans Petrify...when Gokuu Rod already also did that effectively.

With regards to Imperil, Holy & Dark: Much like my Oil vs. Imperil comment, I didn't mean to communicate that I was discomforted by it. I was merely pointing out the chief difference between it and ARENA's version of Oil. Still, it's good to know that about Demi and other percentage-based abilities.

With regards to everything else: I see.


...What? When I said "concise", I meant "concise for me".
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

Feelie

Is the job tree the same for the 2.0 version? When will I be able to play this?

Eternal

The job tree is going to be shifted around a lot, if only because many jobs play a lot differently now. I'm hoping to have something playable out early next year. I work on PW 2.0 a lot when I'm off of work, but sadly that time has been sparse lately. :(
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
"You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
  • Discord username: eternal248#1817

Feelie

I see. Well, thank you for the response. Hopefully you find the time to finish this.