Final Fantasy Hacktics

Christians aren't horrible, some of my best friends are christian. The people themselves aren't ALL bad, though a good portion are. The real villain is the religion itself. Nobody with a brain can actually say with a straight face that the world wouldn't be better without Christianity.

the world would be better off without christianity.

Quote from: "Kill_Bones"Nobody with a brain can actually say with a straight face that the world WOULDN'T be better without Christianity.

-_-

i was agreeing ^.^ i just wanted to show everyone my serious face

You really think without christianity there would be no war or anything?Without religion human life would be viewed as a commodity, don't start this with me. Look at the jews and muslims! Iran X Israel

I was refering to the Dark Ages GS. We would be years more advanced if the church didn't burn people for trying to make scientific advancements that went against "TEH LAWS OF OUR MAGICAL SKY WIZARD!" Oh, and sorry VLord, got a bit confused X.X

oh of course the dark ages were horrible

Christianity was nice when it was NEW, and, it did help the world for a while. were it more "recent" i would be totally fine with, but christianity has not stayed recent with the times, the rest of the world is changing, and the church IS moving forward("oh hey evolution is a thing now") which is nice, but they arent doing it fast enough,  and it cant continue being how it is now if it wishes to continue existing on the scale it does. Its not purely the church itself either, its also its "supporters". having 10million strong who will active beat/harass/lynch anyone who isnt a white,  uptight, church going, heterosexual, geebus praising, cross wearer. Not all christians are like this, obviously. but there are places in the south that i honestly refuse to go near out of the general fear of what may happen.  I dont actively hate christianity, i just think it needs to evolve the same as government, if they arent giving the people what they want, then someone else needs to take over.

The problem is not that all christians are automatically bad, no one here has stated that.

The problem is that the type of mentality that believes in claims such as religious ones (g0d exists, g0d cares about who you have sex with, g0d has a pre-determined plan for you, g0d is all-powerful even though the devil still comes in every now and then and corrupts his creations, this making his omni-potence kinda questionable).

The type of mentality that believes claims like that without any sort of evidence (and there is absolutely ZERO demonstrable evidence for any religious claim) tends to act in completely irrational ways when they choose to be destructive. Using this way of thinking to validate invisible things such as religions and deities, mentalities like these find it easier to justify irrationality in areas that really do impact society (abortion, gay marriage, racism, xenophobia, etc etc), where the effect isn't simply confined to what the person does behind closed doors.

The type of mentality that rejects the reality in front of them only to uphold their own self-wrought religious delusion is a dangerous mentality. And that is what the posters in this thread are getting at.

---Slightly off topic:

This whole morality (or value of human life, as you're putting it) requires religion argument has been proven wrong again and again. IMO it looks like you're another religious type that is going to end up rage-quitting from FFH from the severe levels of ownage that you're going to receive if you press the issue.

QuoteYou really think without christianity there would be no war or anything?Without religion human life would be viewed as a commodity, don't start this with me. Look at the jews and muslims! Iran X Israel

??? You wanna bring up the jews and the Holocaust? OK.


Have fun explaining why Hitler was a catholic and had the blessing of the cardinal when he escaped assassination and mentions his christian g0d all over Mein Kampf.

If you're going to say that religion is responsible for our value of human life, please take responsibility for the destruction of human life it's also caused. (Crusades, burnings, tons of other examples you can google yourself)

fuck catholics, also crusades = dark ages

Religion has a history of failing it's believers. If only the people of Tenochitlan were athiest (+ 100 points if you know what I'm talking about)

Quote from: "Voldemort"IMO it looks like you're another religious type that is going to end up rage-quitting from FFH from the severe levels of ownage that you're going to receive if you press the issue.

>Implying I'm a religious nut.
 I'm not, I simply have my beliefs.

Quote from: "GeneralStrife"fuck catholics, also crusades = dark ages

I'll take a catholic over a protestant any day of the week <3

sola scripturists lack a major degree of understanding, by definition.

QuoteNobody with a brain can actually say with a straight face that the world wouldn't be better without Christianity.

Well, we wouldn't of had Ghandi or Martin Luther King Jr without religion. Whether the pros outweigh the cons when it comes to religion (and/or specifically Christianity) I can't say.

QuoteThe real villain is the religion itself.

I completely disagree with this, though. People use religion as an excuse. Racism, violence, hate, etc would exist without it. People would just use different excuses.

Quote from: "DaveSW"My guess is that GS is suggesting that Atheist = ignorant.  Truth of the matter is that anyone that believes in a higher power is some kind of a fucking moron.  I cannot trust anyone who is willing to believe that magic (or St. Ajora's will) is responsible for any of the natural occurring phenomena in the world.  Everything can be explained, EVERYTHING.

Fundies are scum, plain and simple, and dealing with them is a chore.  I wish they would all just fuck off and die.

Oh, and my high school had 3000 students.  Keller High School, where the VP was proud to proclaim that the school was over 99% white.  There were exactly 4 black kids, and all them were strait A students that dressed preppy, yet were treated like gang-bangers.  I hate Texas, I really wish it would secede so the US can nuke it.

The attitudes of Christians in your community has more to do with them being the dominant majority than with their religious beliefs.  Since Christianity is the pre-requisite for respectability in their community, they place greater importance on the appearance of Christianity, rather than doing Christian things.  Everyone tries to out-Christian each other, and the surest way to ensure your place at the top of the dog pile is to persecute outsiders, or, even better, create outsiders out of anyone who deviates from the norm and persecute them.

In Iran, Shia Muslims are the persecuting majority.  In Dallas, Texas, Fundamentalist Baptist Christians are the persecuting majority.

Now, nobody likes a bully, and everyone is wired to root for the underdog, no matter how much you disagree with them.  This creates a problem when you are a member of the persecuting majority, especially if you are the perceived authority of the majority.  You must give people a reason to justify their persecution of the minorities.  The most effective excuse is to make yourself, and your majority, out as victims of unjust persecution; and to spread fear, especially the fear that your majority is threatened by outsiders who wish to destroy you and everything you believe in.

DaveSW, by making statements such as:
"Fundies are scum, plain and simple, and dealing with them is a chore.  I wish they would all just fuck off and die."
And
"I hate Texas, I really wish it would secede so the US can nuke it."
You are doing exactly what the persecuting majority, and it's authorities, want you to do.  You give them an outsider, a scarecrow, something to whip the majority into a fervor of fear and hate.

Furthermore, we are all here for one reason, and only one reason: to hack FFT.  If your political beliefs - which I share, mostly - get in the way of this goal, then leave them at the door.

In another thread, I proposed that we develop an evolutionary religion, that we create a society where our culture serves us, not one where we exist to serve our culture.  To this end, I assert my right to steal any idea that works.  Here are three such ideas, two from Shia Islam and one from Catholicism, which may serve you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketman
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctrine_o ... eservation

Adapted to your beliefs, it goes something like this:

Long Version
"I am an atheist.  Atheists don't believe in god, so we don't believe in sins, though we do believe that certain acts are evil - things like rape, murder, and theft.  As such, we do not condone or endorse such acts.  However, atheists are not particularly popular.  We are scapegoated for other peoples problems and our lives, well-being, loved ones, and property are threatened by persecuting majorities."

"In nature, every living thing must steal from, murder, and deceive other organisms to survive.  We are living things, we have as much of a right to exist as any other organism, and so we are justified to do whatever we must to survive, even if we consider those things evil."

Short Version
"You are free to do what you must to survive and thrive in your environment."

Respect++ for PGF

Quote from: "Kaijyuu"Respect++ for PGF

Arch, you nearly made me lol at some of your crap. PGF is way more right. Btw, even if you don't believe in G0d, (this isn't aimed only at Arch now), but you sorta understand the idea/fact that G0d is omni-potent and omni-scient, then you should obviously understand that we (as humans) cannot understand or comprehend G0d, otherwise he wouldn't be G0d. So that one comment (the one Arch made about G0d and the devil) is just retarded. But listen, I agree with PGF, why the fuck are we arguing, huh? This is pointless, everyone knows that almost all Atheists are "die-hard" just for the hell of it, whereas most of the hard core Christians described above are die hard as well. No one will change, unless something personal happens, both ways I mean (i.e. Atheist sees a miracle, Christian becomes like Daves way of thinking Atheist, ect.)

So...

Respect ++ for PGF as well

and

Respect -- for Voldemort

My post wasn't meant to earn respect points from you or anyone else, Jon - I just threw out idle examples off the top of my head, my post wasn't meant to delve into the problems with religion, just touch over some of them to counter GS's dumb points about religion = morality

Also, If you use your head, there is some serious flaws with PGF's post, such as this:

Quote"You are free to do what you must to survive and thrive in your environment."

That would cause the same if not more problems than we have now. "Free to do whatever I must to thrive" =
"I can trample over anyone and everything without regards for consequences if it means I get to thrive". Which is, btw, what people do now anyway.

I think what PGF is looking for is this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_humanism
Secular Humanism is a secular philosophy that espouses reason, ethics, and the search for human fulfillment, and specifically rejects supernatural and religious dogma as the basis of morality and decision-making. Secular Humanism is a life stance that focuses on the way human beings can lead happy and functional lives.

Which is very different from "just do what you have to survive, regardless of what that may be", which I don't need to tell you can lead to some fucked up shit happening.

-- comprehension points for Jon

QuotePGF is way more right.

lol?

Haha, its funny that you always react to everything, Arch. I figure I won't write anything else oriented towards you because you will probably get upset and go into another tantrum and erase all of my stuff, like you did to R. Forget, like I already said, no one is going to change. This is so stupid and pointless.