Razele's ASM Hacks

[Razele]

However, there was something I had been meaning to ask that no one else has asked that I'm certain that I'm going to use (since I don't want to have to get rid of something ELSE) for generics: If possible, then after you are done with the above requests, could you please try your dedicated hand at nerfing Teleport so that it takes the Jump stat into account as well as the Move stat?

The reason I'm asking for this particular patch is because a)Teleport overshadows both Ignore Height and Fly, especially since the latter two's negation of fall damage applies to so few maps and b)Teleport is thusly vastly, vastly overused.

Also with regards to Teleport, I'm also curious if there's some way to increase the percentage of failure for Teleports outside of the Move and (what I hope is capable soon) Jump radius.

It's logical to include Jump stats into Teleport calculation,
but I don't know where the game store the height for each tiles in the memory.

Code Select Expand

Quote from FFT BMG
(thanks to Goryus on the GameFAQs FFT Message Board for this data)

The 'Teleport' ability from the Time Mage is one of the game's best,
allowing a unit to ignore height differences and pass through walls
and obstacles.  Teleport can fail if you attempt to teleport too far,
however, and the success rate is given by the formula below.

success% = min(100, (100 - 10 * (teleport_distance - move)))

where 'teleport_distance' is the number of squares that you are
teleporting -- note that just as with normal movement, each square
you move diagonally counts as two squares, because you can only move
in four directions (forward, backward, left and right).

'Move' is the Move stat of the person who is teleporting.

This equation essentially means that you are penalized 10% for each
square outside your movement range that you attempt to teleport.  If
you teleport inside your movement range, you are guaranteed success.


I check Teleport's RNG code and Goryus is right.
It's 10% penalty for each square outside your movement range.

I agree that Teleport need a nerf, but nerfing it too much will make it useless.
25% penalty is too much, no one will take a 50% chance to move 2 step ahead.

This is what I think the best, and can be implemented :
1. 10% penalty, can be learned from Crystal only
2. 10% / 15% / 20% penalty, can be learned from Time Mage, 1200 JP cost, move it from Time Mage to Calculator or the highest class available
3. 10% penalty, can be learned from Time Mage, cost X MP / teleport. If the unit doesn't have enough MP, it can't move anywhere (teleport will fail).
4. 10% penalty, can be learned from Time Mage, cost X MP / square outside your movement range. If the unit doesn't have enough MP, it can't move outside the normal movement range.

[VincentCraven]

Well, even without the ability to move past one's movement range, Teleport is essentially the same as Fly, but allows the player to also move to tiles directly above itself with no penalty, right?  It's just that the AI almost never takes the chance of moving further than it's movement range.

Nevertheless, I think that option 3 (edit: 5, see below) is the coolest one.  As for the amount of MP per square... It'll vary from need to need.  For my purposes, 2MP per square might even be enough.

[Vanya]

Vote for option 5. ^_^

Option 5 = option 3 + increase to 20% penalty.

NOTE: There is no penalty for moving within your normal movement range.

If move = 4 & distance = 4, then (100 - 10 * (4 - 4)) = 100 - 10*0 = 100 - 0 = 100.
Therefore, a 20% penalty means that you won't be able to move more than 4 squares beyond your normal range.
If move = 4 & distance = 9, then (100 - 10 * (9 - 4)) = 100 - 10*5 = 100 - 100 = 0.
That plus an MP cost would make it a very reasonable proposition, I think.

Should Teleport 2 be given an MP cost as well?

[VincentCraven]

Option 5 is a pretty cool guy.

Teleport 2 might be usable by the player if it costs a ridiculous amount of MP per square, like 1/10 of a unit's MP per square.  I'd never give Teleport 2 to anyone besides the final boss or Elmdor, but that's just me.

[Vanya]

If it's going to be usable for the player, then maybe it should be something like 30 MP per move instead of per panel. With no MP the unit wouldn't be able to move any more right? Perhaps it should only cost MP if you move beyond your movement range?

[adouchebag]

I have a small request (maybe, it might be ridiculously complicated, what do I know?).  Would it be possible to allow special characters, like Agrias, and maybe even Ramza himself, be able to participate in Bar Propositions?

[Vanya]

That would go great with the Soldier Office Recruitment Disable.

[adouchebag]

Yeah that and renaming all characters is what made me think of it

[The Damned]

Well, even without the ability to move past one's movement range, Teleport is essentially the same as Fly, but allows the player to also move to tiles directly above itself with no penalty, right?  It's just that the AI almost never takes the chance of moving further than it's movement range.

Pretty much.

The only thing that Fly (and Ignore Height) have over Teleport is that they ignore fall damage, but since the game ended up being the "incomplete" version we got, half of the few maps where fall damage matters you can't ever go back to. (Examples include the Zalmo II fight, all three Bethla Garrison areas, both Dorter areas, etc.)


@ Vanya: Uh, those 10s in your post are supposed to be 20s, right?

(P.S. I'm probably going to bug you later on today. Just a heads up.)


@ Razele:  Of the options you provided, I would say that 4 is probably the best.

Then again, I also wouldn't really want the option of moving beyond 4 extra panels, especially if the computer still isn't going to use Teleport. (And, honestly, I probably wouldn't give the computer the first Teleport since Teleport 2 is one of those things that should remain computer only like Non-Charge.)

So, I do agree with Vanya that penalty should increase up to 20%.

Now with that said, I must thank you for giving me the idea of moving Teleport to Calculator/Sage/whatever I end up naming it since it was kind of lacking in R/S/M abilities compared to its opposite, Berserker.

This reminds me of "one more thing": Would it be possible, since you fixed Oil (which I'll have to remind myself to ask you about later), for you to also fix both Reflect and Silent Walk?

[Dokurider]

What should Silent Walk and Reflect do?

[The Damned]

Well, I think Silent Walk is supposed to just ignore traps, which is admittedly a bit weak, though I'm trying to give at least all R/S/Ms outside of the "broken" ones like Two Swords a chance (until I get that demo up far, far in the future at this point).

It should have at least a bit of use early game (for me), and perhaps continued use if I knew about traps in their limitations. It would definitely see sustained use if we could figure out how to affect maps in-battle.

As for Reflect, I think it's just supposed to either automatically add Reflect or perhaps even try to act as an agressive "Reflect" in the sense that would be like a magical Blade Grasp (except that it would be balanced in that it would counter everything under the sun AND it would "counter" beneficial spells as well).

These are just my ideas, though.

[Dokurider]

Well, I think Silent Walk is supposed to just ignore traps, which is admittedly a bit weak, though I'm trying to give at least all R/S/Ms outside of the "broken" ones like Two Swords a chance (until I get that demo up far, far in the future at this point).

It should have at least a bit of use early game (for me), and perhaps continued use if I knew about traps in their limitations. It would definitely see sustained use if we could figure out how to affect maps in-battle.

As for Reflect, I think it's just supposed to either automatically add Reflect or perhaps even try to act as an agressive "Reflect" in the sense that would be like a magical Blade Grasp (except that it would be balanced in that it would counter everything under the sun AND it would "counter" beneficial spells as well).

These are just my ideas, though.

Silent Walk's description always scares me for some reason. I don't know why. So Silent Walk = Poor Man's Move Find Item?

[The Damned]

Hunh. I've never seen Silent Walk's description. I didn't know it or Reflect had descriptions, though I guess since we can actually "use" them in menus via FFTPatcher, it kind of makes sense.

And, yeah, it would be a Poor Man's Move-Find Item, except that I don't think all traps have Items (or am I wrong? I'm probably wrong) and Move-Find Item won't stop you from reactivating the trap if you're stupid enough to move over it again.

[Dokurider]

Hunh. I've never seen Silent Walk's description. I didn't know it or Reflect had descriptions, though I guess since we can actually "use" them in menus via FFTPatcher, it kind of makes sense.

And, yeah, it would be a Poor Man's Move-Find Item, except that I don't think all traps have Items (or am I wrong? I'm probably wrong) and Move-Find Item won't stop you from reactivating the trap if you're stupid enough to move over it again.

I guess that's okay.

I'm looking for the description for Silent Walk now, but I don't remember where I found it.

[VincentCraven]

If it's going to be usable for the player, then maybe it should be something like 30 MP per move instead of per panel. With no MP the unit wouldn't be able to move any more right? Perhaps it should only cost MP if you move beyond your movement range?

Teleport is still the best ability for getting around (aside from Move+X) because it allows units to move through obstacles instead of around them.  So if it only costs MP when moving places within the movement range, Teleport trumps Jump+X, Ignore Height, and Fly.

Even if Teleport only allowed a unit to move within the movement range, I'd still use Teleport on most maps.

[Dokurider]

I think the solution is not to nerf Teleport, but to buff the other Move skills. I think we should just add Move to them, like Fly can get 2 Move or something.

[Vanya]

@ Vanya: Uh, those 10s in your post are supposed to be 20s, right?

(P.S. I'm probably going to bug you later on today. Just a heads up.)

Only after the ASM hack. This was just to illustrate.

Feel free to bug me when ever you wish. ^_^

[Asmo X]

No, teleport should be nerfed. Terrain and position should be important in this game and teleport ruins that, at least for the purpose of getting around. If you buff the other move skills you'll just make terrain and position even less relevant

[VincentCraven]

I have a rather complicated request:


Okay, so I'm having a little issue with the method of selecting secondaries.

Basically how it works out is for some reason, the AI always has the option of choosing nothing as it's secondary skill.  What this means is that if the AI does not have their secondary chosen for them, ~1 or 2 enemies per battle will only have primary skills to choose from, giving the player an extra advantage.  If there was some way to remove that option of selecting nothing, that would be awesome.

This is probably the closest we can get to having effective random setups without having an AI for item/ability allocation (and that would probably add in a large delay when starting the battles too).

The other part is that if a skillset has no skills in it learned, the AI might also be assigned one of those skillsets.  I had hoped the reason for the no-skillset selection was to prevent this, but apparently it is not.  Thus the current method of randomly selecting a secondary can also be improved by disabling any skillset that is empty.  As far as I'm concerned, this part of the request is just icing on the cake if you can do it.

[Gamesoul Master]

In FFTacText Editor...
(PSX):
[ATCHELP.LZW] -> [16 Ability Descriptions] -> [509 Silent Walk] -> "Become invisible, move without being seen.{END}"
(PSP):
[ATCHELP.LZW] -> [16 Ability Descriptions] -> [509 Stealth] -> "Move while transparent and invisible to the enemy.{END}"

I always did like that, and always wanted to give that a shot. People always said it would just let you avoid any damage/effect from traps, but I always thought that sounded weak and pathetic (what, an alternate Float that Ninja can use?).

Had I designed this game, I would've made Silent Walk made to avoid traps and allow (for only the turn on which you moved) Concentrate status for physical attacks (100% damage on any side). And if you don't do a normal attack, it fades as soon as your turn ends. As things stand, something like that sounds a bit complex to do with ASM hacking (making a status ailment occur just from using the "Move" command).

As for the teleport thing, I don't really think it needs to be "nerfed" so much. If anything, I think it should allow movement anyplace, but with a cost of 1/20 MaxMP per square moved total (if we go the v1.3 route of adding MP costs to nearly everything useful), or something like 10-20 MP per square moved outside movement range if we stick to the more vanilla route of MP being reserved for primarily magical abilities. As for penalty, haven't decided on the first example, but for the second one with the static MP cost, I'd say 16-20% per move outside movement range is good.