Arena battle videos and discussion

[Taichii]

wow famous knights eh?
nice team~~

[Reks]

That chaos was unplanned for, by the way. But it WAS fun to see just how wonky the AI can get.

Magical Melodies will be retuned later when I feel like doing so, so for the moment they're in the repair shop.

Also, if you get to that showcase series of yours, feel free to toss them against SWA or Late to the Party. Somehow, I highly doubt that the Knights would be able to get past Nanten, what with Jump being unevadable, the Bard's vampiric weapon(and he's not as dumb as MM's Bard is), and the breaks from the Chemist.

But if you wanna test them by fire, go ahead.

After the thought edit: Seeing what same-job teams are being put out, it gives me an idea from one of my previous teams (the one Celdia liked). So they'll be resurrected as well.

[Barren]

The match I'm about to upload Reks has your Magical Melodies team in it. I hope you don't mind

[reinoe]

I ran them against every team in the mem card generator they diddn't loose a single one

Wow, that is impressive.  Also which teams are in the mem card generator?  It's exciting that overnight there's suddenly a "top team".  I did notice that oftentimes teams that want durability have to sacrifice attacking power, but DomieV's team did decent damage when they finally got in range.  I just think it's worth reiterating that with unfortunate A.I. Rek's team kept killing themselves.

[Malroth]

Well besides the paladin with time magic they consistently did low damage compared to their opponent but had so much staying power it diddn't matter if the opponent was doing 300 more damage per hit.

[Barren]

FFT Arena 1.38d: Showcase Series reinoe

Stay tuned for 3 extra matches!

[Malroth]

Can anyone confirm if geomancy procs are working in this version?

[Eternal]

I'm more concerned about why Geomancy is procing Counter Magic.

[Barren]

FFT Arena 1.38d - feeldawrath (Team of Graces) vs Zalbaag (Dark Fire)

FFT Arena 1.38d - Dol (Alpha) vs Taichii (Order of The Rose)

FFT Arena 1.38d - Barren (Hero Lancers) vs The Damned (Knife Nuts)

[reinoe]

spoiler: Match one

Match one, I almost hit the floor.  I didn't know there was already an Archer team in play.  It would have seriously killed my enthusiasm to make the team in the first place.  First turn crit gave me all the momentum.

GG. Otabo

spoiler: Match two

Wow I made a team specifically designed to spam quickening and not a single member of my team uses it.  I also expected that paladin to use more ReRaise.  I knew it was over when my Mime ran off to the corner to die.  Actually I knew it was over when my team made a very dedicated effort to not spam Quickening.

GG DomieV

spoiler: Match Three

You know, my biggest concern was having my people get killed mid-charge.  But I figured I could take a chance just this once.  And I was completely wrong.  I knew I lost when my bard went for an attack instead of reviving his allies.  What a slaughter. A loss that bad and I may just scrap the team altogether.  I thought my "Embarrassingly bad teams" phase had ended.

GG Otabo

spoiler: Match Four

It was off to a bad start when Barren pointed out that I left Abandon on my Scholar from a previous version of the team when she had a mantle.  Oh boy, my team building skills were not off to a good start.  Stupid friggin mediator.  Wasting time with Refute to get rid of innocence, an innocence that my very well have saved her life when that Holy proc'ed.  Worse still she could have been spamming quickening like the Monk.  I certainly didn't deserve that win.  On a sidenote, this LLD has serious synergy problems.  On a positive note maybe I should make this team my "generic speed team".

GG Truelight, you should have won if not for the brokenness of charm

spoiler: Match Five

You know, I don't think "Troll Bait" has effectively done his job in a long time.  In a twist of irony, Magical Melodies, does what "HyperFabulous" was supposed to do, which is spam AOE spells repeatedly to overwhelm the enemy.  Once the triple paralyze hit it was over.  As Bowyer from Super Mario RPG would say: Nyot Fair!  That Oracle never used status in the match against DomieV! Oh well.  My entire team had 40 faith to lessen the chance of getting pounded by magical onslaught.

GG Reks

spoiler: Match Six

It must have been Kharma.  I used Lore spam to win on that map, now someone uses lore spam to beat me on it.  My only disappointment was how my team literally ran into the grinder to get killed by the summons. 

GG Avalanche

spoiler: Match Seven

The whole time I kept screaming at my computer, YOUR TELEPORT GEOMANCERS, GET THE EFF OUT OF THE ORACLE'S RANGE.  It's so weird because in the first match that featured this team that's exactly what the Geomancers did.  This time they dabbled on the edge so that they could be hit with paralyze.  I didn't think I'd win when I saw how much sandbag power Eternal was packing.  I was also quite disappointed when I realized the Geomancers were moving forward to use their physical attacks.  I was sure they'd opt for Geomancy, but I guess the only thing that matters to the A.I. is raw damage.

GG Eternal

Overall somewhat disappointed, if only because some ideas continue to not work like how I intended.  Both of my Mime Teams lost, which means those units will be replaced.

As always, thanks Barren.  You're awesome.

[Ahong]

*Just got back*

And i just saw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIYhgI3hl6c&feature=youtu.be and..

spoiler: Match 1

GG Reks, your team is Lightning ele, cool. Someday i want to try element team too

spoiler: Match 2

Umm, well, i forgot to update my 2nd team (ofc you knew with my bard support is short charge in there) and, once my Oracle always cast Raise 2 to my dancer or my bard, the flow change in my team. GG Reks

Anyway, i'll update my 2nd team soon, so take care of it. ^_^

[TrueLight]

spoiler

Charm and DS, my only weakness! I really need to learn to get some status protection. GG reinoe

[Avalanche]

FFT Arena 1.38d: Showcase Series reinoe

Stay tuned for 3 extra matches!

spoiler: my Team "Circulus Terestris", Game 6

When i first saw phöenix Blade my first impression was: "wow this is Imba". And i wanted to make a Team that uses Phoenix blade units as meatshield that can hit very hard themself. Im happy to so that this concept: phoenix blade + move= 0 works a bit even if the Team "circulus terestris" is far away from being perfect designed. And would be happy to see more of this Team

[Barren]

FFT Arena 1.38d - Celdia (My Hat in The Ring) vs Reks (Minds over Muscleheads)

[Barren]

I'm more concerned about why Geomancy is procing Counter Magic.

I think its been that way for a while that geomancy is technically earth magic (if that's the alternative) and its more or less a substitute for counter flood. But yea it is strange that geomancy doesn't consume MP. The only other thing I can think of is elemental has MA in its damage formula.

But if Draw Out can no longer trigger counter magic then what about Elemental?

[Dokurider]

I'm assuming that Draw Out had lost its CM because it weakened the reaction itself too much due to it's self pwnage potential. Otherwise, I don't see why it is CMable.

Why should CM consume MP when proccing Geomancy if Elemental itself doesn't consume MP?

[Barren]

not just that but there's CM draw out healing which is pretty broken to me

[The Damned]

(People are getting interested in making all-four-same-class teams now just cause the usual all-Paladin and all-Lancer teams pop up again? *snorts haughtily*

Quick! Someone make an all-Mime team!)

More seriously, I can't recall if anyone's done an all-Samurai one yet, so you should be "good" reinoe. Off the top of my head, I think about a little more than a third of the classes have already had mono-class teams done with them, not counting possible gender differences: Squire (back when Ultima and their stats were OP), Paladin (probably the most common), Archer (at worst third most common), Geomancer (Otabo's at least), Mediator (recently), Lancer (the other candidate for most common), Dancer (when Wiznaibus was more [?] obnoxious or, at least, MP-less and quicker).

(Mind EDIT: And now that I didn't skip over Celdia and Reks's fight, I see that all-Bards have been done.)

I don't think any mages (if we're not counting Mediators as mages, which we aren't) have ever been done as an all-four-of, unsurprisingly. Maybe a couple, but I can't recall. I was going to make an all-Time-Mage team, but since everyone agrees that class's abilities and weapon choices sucks at present, I'll just wait until 139 since I'm not that masochistic.

****

Anyway, thanks as always, Barren. I'll go backwards and start with our match considering I watched that one earliest:

spoiler: Barren (Hero Lancers) vs. Myself (Knife Nuts)

I'm really not surprised I lost this ultimately, especially considering the Thief was relatively useless here and just had to keep going for Life Drain instead of stabbing people in the damn face for 200+ damage. It also doesn't help that I keep forgetting how Counter works with the direct distance weapons since it's so damn counterintuitive for something so damn basic; this means my Chemist effectively didn't have a reaction. It doesn't really help that he never Hi-Ether'd himself either despite wanting to whore Chivalry as I expected.

In fact, I'm more surprised that I was able to win the second round at all considering how horribly Charm tends to either backfire or not ever really matter for me. I wonder if I would have also won the first round if Peanut Butterfly had managed to stab the Charmed Lancer that was targeted with Jump by all of his three of his allies since he ended up in Critical after that and he would have completely died unless she got a Critical hit that knocked him forward. Still, she was easily the most useful unit between Charm, healing and Spellbreaker.

But, yeah, not surprised I lost between Masamune, your team having longer range revival and way more (passive) healing, three units on my team essentially having no reaction when it comes to Jump, the Dancer being kind of squishy and, last but not least, that annoying loophole that allows for Lancers to be only class with a skillset where all four units can have essentially the same (unavoidable) skill. That last part has bugged me for a while, even if it's a relatively minor issue compared to literally dozens of other things.

Also, I'm not really sure why my Critical Thief just didn't spam the hell out of Quickening or even really use in it that first round at all, even if that probably wouldn't changed things. Sigh. The AI is so weird about what would otherwise be (and arguably still is) a completely busted move.

Meh. Still a good game and informative about some things. So thanks again.

spoiler: Dol (Alpha) vs. Taichii (Order of the Rose)

Nice to see someone use double Murasame finally (?) as I said on Youtube, even if it's with the already proven to be (overly?) powerful Kagesougi. Also nice to see someone finally use Ultima Weapon right after I say that no one's been using the poor thing. It worked well with (innate) Two Hands and Counter.

As much as Taichii's team still needs fine-tuning, he might have actually won or at least stood more of a chance the first round if his Archer were concerned with using Arm Aim on mid-charging units rather than Leg Aim. Leg Aim never did anything for him, really. It was just a relatively slow grind to losing, especially since he got rather unlikely with Quake procs (or lack thereof) in this entire match.

The Priest or the Oracle really do need some MP restoration though, especially considering how pitiful the Samurai's Chakra is on that front. Of course, having MP didn't prevent the Priest from getting screwed over by Throw Stone--nice to see that finally get use--of all things towards the end, but it would still be something.

With regards to weirdness in this match, I've been noticing more and more lately that it seems like Kagesougi, as obnoxious powerful as it already is (at least with Hidden Knife and Concentrate as they are), seems to not be adding status 100% of the time even though it should be doing that under Random since it's not like can pick "nothing". Well, that is unless FFMaster dummied in the first, empty status above Crystal as part of it to try to balance its power a bit. Has anyone else been noticing this?

spoiler: feeldawrath (Team of Graces) vs. Zalbaag (Dark Fire)

Not really anything I can say here that I haven't said with regards to either team before. I pretty much expected Dark Fire win as if the Oracle was able to Silence one or more of Team of Graces's members, which is what ended up happening in that last round. Still much closer than I expected.

As I said on Youtube, I'm getting slightly more and more convinced that Sing at least should be subject to Silence, especially if Talk Skill is. Shrug.

When it comes to "weirdness" here, it was odd how that Critical Ninja just stayed in the corner after everyone on his team died considering how the AI tends to kamikaze itself as soon everyone else goes down on its side. I wonder if that was due to trying to stay out of the Archer's extreme range, even though the AI has walked straight into much dumber things even when healthier. Hmmm....

spoiler: Reinoe showcase

Geez, I think this might be the most matches have vacillated between "curb-stomp battle" and "slow, drawn out affair" when it comes to a series of things.

Also, reinoe's name is pronounced "Reno"? Hunh. I've been mentally pronouncing it like it was Japanese just because of how it was spelled. Good to know.

spoiler: Match 1 - Four Horsemen of Archery vs CT5Holy (Standstill)

This was pretty brutal. I'm still not sure what to think about or how to "fix" Oil plus Spellguns, even though CT5Holy would have lost anyway most likely just because The Four Horsemen were doing even damage before that. This despite the fact that reinoe's Crossbow "Horseman" technically doesn't even work right now since both Bowgun and Shieldrender aren't working in 138 for some reason.

spoiler: Match 2 - Generic Speed Team vs DomieV (Sword Masters)

It seemed pretty obvious that DomieV was going to win here as soon as I saw how little the Mime was hitting for. It just took...a while between Reraise, all the pointless back and forth with Poison (even if that ended up ultimately killing the Paladin & Mime) what with Masamune's Regen and all the pointless Charming that got Healed (yay, Basic Skill). Gimmick teams fighting each other tends to have that happen though.

spoiler: Match 3 - Hyper Fabulous vs Otabo (Neo Geos)

Well...this was a slaughter. Seriously nothing to say here except that it's nice to see Geomancers being more than Draw Out-bots again.

spoiler: Match 4 - Les Liaisons Dangereuses vs TrueLight (Caravan of Memories)

This was actually somewhat even until that Muramasa hit horribly backfired on the Oracle and the Priest decided it would be prudent to Leeroy Jenkins herself to the fullest. The Ninja probably need a better weapon than Short Edge. After that, this was pretty much over, especially with all those Charms hitting for reinoe. Still, it was probably the most even match of this entire series, which makes it appropriate that it was in the middle.

spoiler: Match 5 - Mellow Yellow vs Reks (Magical Melodies)

And we're right back to a brutal curb-stomp since it's not like Reks's team was utterly incompetent to begin with--just open to much improvement--and this map was heavily to his team's advantage. Combine that with Mellow Yellow being faster and all bunching up, Tornado being quite quick, triple Paralyze hitting and Mellow Yellow dodging nothing and...yeah. Chalk outlines blown away by the wind.

spoiler: Match 6 - Piceous vs Avalanche (circlus teretris)

Avalanche's team really, really doesn't seem like it should work. As possibly imbalanced as Phoenix Blade is (and as probably imbalanced as it probably is with Quickening), his Dancers aren't that strong overall compared to how horrifically strong they could be.

*looks at Ahong*

Additionally, both his Scholars become hilariously useless if Silenced and depend on what's theoretically the easiest element to avoid. It also seems to just utterly get its ass kicked by any status that isn't Don't Move or maybe Undead in theory.

...And yet it won so handily because, again, a Priest decided to be utterly stupid and charge forward when she had absolutely no business doing so.

Sigh. Think you know the AI. Be disappointed by the AI. Get killed by everyone.

spoiler: Match 7 - Short Circuit vs Eternal (Jack-of-all-Trades, Masters of None)

I honestly figured this would be a win for reinoe as soon I saw what map it was, which ended up being the case given the Summoner and Paladin literally never got an attack off. If Oracle had Frogged that Geo or managed to kill that Scholar with 79 HP, both said Summoner and Paladin might have been able catch a breather and be do more than just revive or heal themselves, which he means he probably would have won. Eternal also probably would have outright won if the Samurai actually had Bizen Boat as an ability constantly how often she was near the Geomancers. Oh well.

(Mind EDIT: Whoops, I missed Celdia and Reks's fight initially.)

spoiler: Celdia (My Hat in the Ring) vs. Reks (Mind over Muscleheads)

Celdia's team continues to prove that it's stronger than I thought aside from Quickening alongside Phoenix Blade. I wasn't aware that the Monk could full-heal the Squire so easily and so far, she seems to have had far more luck with Salty Rage than I have.

Things ended up being a hell of closer than I expected in every round, especially the first round where I thought that Reks might initially win. So her comeback power is also better than I realized, especially since her Scholar's able to Raise 2 the Samurai at 100% without Faith.

Still, Reks's team of all-Bards--which means I don't have to make one--managed to win, partly because Zodiac's infinite height, of all things, actually mattered, if only at the end. I'm not sure if Orichalcum is really working on that Bard, especially since he attacked when the Ultima Weapon never did, but the extra movement may or may not have got him that crystal at the end, which ultimately allowed for the (quicker) win. The same goes for Fairy Harp. Damn thing can't catch a break since I think it's only ever proc'd Charm twice or thrice...only for those to immediately get broken. I still don't understand why the Bard targeted the Charmed Berserk Samurai with Zodiac when it didn't kill him. Hmm....

Still, well-built teams on your parts.

I ran them against every team in the mem card generator they diddn't loose a single one

"More data is needed."

Starting with, you know, what "every team in the mem card generator" actually means.

Can anyone confirm if geomancy procs are working in this version?

Yes, they're working. Admittedly I can't say they're "proc'ing" as often as they're supposed to at 20% though, but they're working and that's what you asked.

Why do you think they're not working when the procs went off in a couple of reinoe's matches that Barren just posted?

not just that but there's CM draw out healing which is pretty broken to me

Well, it's not like you can't just make Murasame not trigger Counter Magic (this time). Not that I condone making Draw Out subject to Counter Magic again considering how it backs fires enough as it is and it would return to be even more powerful and abusable than it already (still) is due it being instant.

Whether or not Geomancy/Elemental should be subject to Counter Magic is something that should go in the balance thread thought, right?

[Barren]

FFT Arena 1.38d Trifecta Series - DomieV (Famous Knights)

[The Damned]

(Ugh. Damn editing things always taking longer than I expect.)

Hunh. I didn't notice that Eternal got rid of his all "Judge" team until now. Sadface.

Anyway, as I said on Youtube on what was already hours ago, I'll try to be more example what I mean less callously here now that I have the room. I'll "try" and keep this concise though.

spoiler: Trifecta Series - DomieV (Famous Knights)

I'm not really going to bother with individual team spoilers because none of these teams really stood a chance from the beginning, to be "honest". None of these teams had any solid, constant sources of damage or really had any real (magical) evasion, which has been the trend in the four recorded matches with Famous Knights so far. (Given I have no idea what the hell Malroth tested, I can't say there.)

The easiest one to explain is Dokurider's, since "Rebalancing Arena" is easily his iffiest/worst team presently and tries to do what "Famous Knights" does...only a lot worse because every unit besides his Paladin is "squishy". Or, at least, they're squishier than all of DomieV's units, which is already a disadvantageous thing even before the fact that Dokurider's Paladin rarely uses Balance presently, his Ninja keeps being ineffectual if not outright backfiring and DomieV's team tends to hand mages their asses. I'm not sure why he just didn't give the Ninja Concentrate to at least ensure that both Masamune & Muramasa hit, but oh well. The Ninja's not a Ninja anymore now.

Taichii's team I've already talked about and he got also screwed over by the map and the Priest being unnecessarily stupid a lot of the time, even for the AI. His Archer at least was a lot more useful this time despite probably literally at least 50% of her actions being Steal Heart. Too bad it was ultimately to no avail.

Eternal's team might have actually won if his Paladin could hit anything or if the Summoner had an unavoidable summon or both. But they don't, and it didn't exactly help that his team began the end itself with the Samurai's "Screw Allies!" Chirijiraden and that Counter Magic Slow.

So I'm still curious how "Famous Knights" generally fares against teams that set-up gradually or that it can't constantly dodge. With any "luck", I'll be able to record something by tomorrow, so I suppose maybe I'll see then.

Thanks as always, Barren.