Random Square Enix Bashing

[Eternal]

For anyone who says FFXII is a bad game, I implore that they look at XIII and say that again.

[Tigerspike]

For anyone who says FFXII is a bad game, I implore that they look at XIII and say that again.

This is so true.  While it isn't my favorite in the series, at least XII isn't a giant tube, or as I described it to my brother, "a bad movie with some RPG elements tacked on."

[Pickle Girl Fanboy]

Never played it, but I did read that one review, and much rofling was had.

[Shade]

Btw yeah I have looked at XIII, I know how deep shit it goes, and I can see it is worse then the XII, that doesn't mean XII isn't in deep shit either.

Oh yeah I forgot mention that XII is most boring game ever made, because of the game elements that I mentioned.
I will still hate beating that one unit during 5 hours in row to get like equips for two guys of my team.
Btw first Final Fantasy that I own not finished, and not going to be finished.

[Kaijyuu]

For anyone who says FFXII is a bad game, I implore that they look at XIII and say that again.

Not so sound of logic here. How terrible on game is has no bearing on how terrible another game is.

You could say FF12 is good by comparison to FF13, but you could also say FFTA is terrible by comparison to FFT. That doesn't mean FF12 isn't a bad game or that FFTA isn't a good game. It doesn't mean anything at all, other than one is better than another.

[Cheetah]

I love me some FFXII. It is just sad that it's story wasn't fully realized. I love the battle system and believe the gambit system is the greatest RPG invention ever. All it does is speed up battle and reduce the amount of choosing actions. If you think it makes the game boring, then I believe you must get some kind of sick enjoyment out of mashing the X/O button all day.

[Kaijyuu]

From the beginning, the problem with traditional turn based RPG battle systems is they're too simplistic. Reducing the number of decisions you need to make in a battle sounds counter productive.

Granted, mashing X/O/A until stuff falls over is horribly boring, but then again so is watching a cinematic every time you pick a move. There must be something else, no?

IMO, there's really only two ways to go from your average RPG battle system: Action RPG (kingdom hearts, etc), or strategy (FFT, disgaea, etc). Anything else is pretty much a dead end. Either make positioning extremely important and give the time to think about it, or make quick reflexes important and give little time to think.

[Shade]

I love me some FFXII. It is just sad that it's story wasn't fully realized. I love the battle system and believe the gambit system is the greatest RPG invention ever. All it does is speed up battle and reduce the amount of choosing actions. If you think it makes the game boring, then I believe you must get some kind of sick enjoyment out of mashing the X/O button all day.

wasn't gambit system kinda inveted long time ago, it's basicly same as it was KH. Only diffrences are:
1. moar options in XII
2. you need to buy them(mostly) in XII
3. you can control your gambits guys by yourself in XII

Also I believe you get some kind of sick enjoyment out of pushing dirrectional buttons only all day long.

[Dokurider]

From the beginning, the problem with traditional turn based RPG battle systems is they're too simplistic. Reducing the number of decisions you need to make in a battle sounds counter productive.

Granted, mashing X/O/A until stuff falls over is horribly boring, but then again so is watching a cinematic every time you pick a move. There must be something else, no?

I'd would rather watch the AI do all the work for me, then manually entering the same damned inputs over and over again. At least then, my boredom is coming from the fact that the battle itself is boring and unengaging then from pressing the same buttons over and over again.

Don't get decisions confused with formalities. Can you really call the halfheartedly mashing the attack command a decision? With Gambits, you still are making important decisions. You are still in control. It's just you are leaving the boring and minor 'decisions' to the AI.

Gambits becoming a widespread feature for RPGs can only be a good thing. It forces developers to make more interesting and strategic battles because if they just fill the game with simple attack battles, the player is going to notice more often.

Really, Gambits are just an advanced version of Autobattle, which have been a standard inclusion for like, forever.

[Kaijyuu]

I guess I just don't see it as much of an improvement. Auto battle is just a way for you to skip gameplay if you find it boring... I've never liked the concept of auto battle and I think its mere existence is evidence that the gameplay in question is dubiously entertaining.

Don't confuse efficiency with fun. A tedious exercise isn't made less tedious by reducing the amount of effort you have to expend.

I DO see the fun value in strategizing your AI partners, but I only see lasting value in it if you're constantly changing things around. If you get a system that works for everything (I've not played long into FF12 so I don't know if this is the case), it collapses into the game just playing itself. If the game does encourage, if not require, you to change around your AI strategies, I'd probably classify it as a strategy RPG, which I listed as not a dead end.

[Dokurider]

I DO see the fun value in strategizing your AI partners, but I only see lasting value in it if you're constantly changing things around. If you get a system that works for everything (I've not played long into FF12 so I don't know if this is the case), it collapses into the game just playing itself. If the game does encourage, if not require, you to change around your AI strategies, I'd probably classify it as a strategy RPG, which I listed as not a dead end.

That's exactly how it works in FFXII. You only have so many slots (meaning you can only tell your AI to do so much) and you do have to change things around, as the same gambits that helped you before can work against you now. If the AI did just work for everything, it would just devolve into playing itself, as you say. Fortunately, that doesn't happen.

So FFXII = Strategy RPG? I'm fine with that classification.

[VampragonLord]

That's exactly how it works in FFXII. You only have so many slots (meaning you can only tell your AI to do so much) and you do have to change things around, as the same gambits that helped you before can work against you now. If the AI did just work for everything, it would just devolve into playing itself, as you say. Fortunately, that doesn't happen.

So FFXII = Strategy RPG? I'm fine with that classification.

thats true up to a certain extent.....
1) ally -> dead -> revive
2) ally -> below 30% -> curaga
3) ally -> below 60% -> cura
4) enemy -> flying -> magic/telekenisis/etc
5) enemy -> nearest -> attack

Yes i realize it doesnt work against EVERYTHING, but for about 85% of the game, all i really had to do was remedy, the occasional quickening/esper, and hold forward on the directional pad for a large number of hours.
I still enjoyed 12 for the story and such, but the enemies did need to be more complex.

[st4rw4k3r]

I love me some FFXII. It is just sad that it's story wasn't fully realized. I love the battle system and believe the gambit system is the greatest RPG invention ever. All it does is speed up battle and reduce the amount of choosing actions. If you think it makes the game boring, then I believe you must get some kind of sick enjoyment out of mashing the X/O button all day.

Sure you click confirm a lot in Final Fantasy Games, but in FF12, the game gets to the point to where you are only tilting the joy stick forward.

No saying I don't like FF12, its my 2nd favorite FF.
But I like the evaluation there, x/o to joy stick tilt forward.

[Cheetah]

An analog stick has many more potential choices than a simple binary choice of to press X/O or not to.

[Celdia]

Holy hell this thread is still going?