[Old] ALL old topics created before the FULL release (Merged together!)

[Dome]

Shouldn't be too hard, but I don't know how extreme the damage differences in black magic are.

black magic uses the same formula as before
Y = 17,21,27 (fire)
Y = 12,16,22 (Bolt)
Y = 10,14,20 (Ice)

[RavenOfRazgriz]

Shouldn't be too hard, but I don't know how extreme the damage differences in black magic are.

Note that he also has to balance this next to a unit using the Knight's Break command (or other formula involving WP) in addition to just Fire/Ice/Bolt 3.

It's not as clear cut as you make it sound unless you intentionally make the gun with the weakest pairing magic the weakest Gun or consider a sizable bonus to Break chances with that Gun a design feature for some reason.

E:  He could always do the super-obvious solution though, I guess.

[Dome]

E:  He could always do the super-obvious solution though, I guess.

Reducing the power of the fire gun by 2 and increasing the power of the ice gun by 1?

[RavenOfRazgriz]

Reducing the power of the fire gun by 2 and increasing the power of the ice gun by 1?

No, not editing the original Fire/Bolt/Ice 1-3s, duping them elsewhere, making the changes you want to the dupes, then adding those into the Wizard's skillset.

[Dome]

No, not editing the original Fire/Bolt/Ice 1-3s, duping them elsewhere, making the changes you want to the dupes, then adding those into the Wizard's skillset.

This would require a lot of free skills slot...
What's the problem if I leave everything as it is, or I just fix the WP of the guns?

[RavenOfRazgriz]

9 Skill Slots. Unless you intend to add a boatload, you have the space.

If you leave everything as is, huge disparity between Gun power.

Adjusting WP, doesn't seem as bad as it once looked, but both Glacier and Blast Guns need a WP of 24 and Blaze Gun needs a WP of 19 assuming we use the tier 3 casts as a benchmark.  If we use the tier 1 casts as a benchmark, they suddenly need 28 WP for Glacier Gun, 25 WP for Blast Gun, and 17 WP for Blaze Gun.  So no matter what, you hit inconsistencies with some Guns being too strong or too weak, and if you play to the lowest tier, lol28WPGun+BreakSkills.

Yeah.  Just using "new" skills for Fire/Bolt/Ice seems far simpler.

[Gotwald]

Or, you could have 3 tiers of magic guns available at different times. Like romada and mythril gun, it could be 3 different strengths. Although, the fixed element isn't to nice, but it is a suggestion.

[RavenOfRazgriz]

Or, you could have 3 tiers of magic guns available at different times. Like romada and mythril gun, it could be 3 different strengths. Although, the fixed element isn't to nice, but it is a suggestion.

If you remember Mustadio's dialog very early in the game, Magic Guns are rare relics, unlike the standard Guns which are far more common and easy to restore.  You can't just shove them in a shop due to this, so making "tiers" of them is pointless.

[Dome]

@Raven
Well, -almost- every monster now has an "attack" skill instead of the old one, so yes, we have the space
But I must admit I don't like the idea to sacrifice 9 skill slot just for 3 rare weapons, if I can just reduce/increase the WP of the guns by 1/2 points to solve the problem, because I'd like to use the free space for the new skills that some job will get...

Edit:
Right now, the guns have 20 (Ice gun) 21 (Fire gun) and 22 (Bolt gun) WP
We can just swap them and maybe add/remove one additional point from the WP
For example: 19 (fire) 22 (Bolt) 23 (Ice)
Elemental guns were strong since the beginning, and I don't think 1 WP less or more will change much at all :-)

[RavenOfRazgriz]

@Raven
Well, -almost- every monster now has an "attack" skill instead of the old one, so yes, we have the space
But I must admit I don't like the idea to sacrifice 9 skill slot just for 3 rare weapons, if I can just reduce/increase the WP of the guns by 1/2 points to solve the problem, because I'd like to use the free space for the new skills that some job will get...

I do not think you understand just how many skill slots there are in the game that you can easily make use of, especially if you're merging redundant skill.  9 is like a bucket drop honestly.

Edit:
Right now, the guns have 20 (Ice gun) 21 (Fire gun) and 22 (Bolt gun) WP
We can just swap them and maybe add/remove one additional point from the WP
For example: 19 (fire) 22 (Bolt) 23 (Ice)
Elemental guns were strong since the beginning, and I don't think 1 WP less or more will change much at all :-)

Already gave you all the WPs to match the vanilla/1.3 guns at various cast tiers, bro:

...both Glacier and Blast Guns need a WP of 24 and Blaze Gun needs a WP of 19 assuming we use the tier 3 casts as a benchmark.  If we use the tier 1 casts as a benchmark, they suddenly need 28 WP for Glacier Gun, 25 WP for Blast Gun, and 17 WP for Blaze Gun.  So no matter what, you hit inconsistencies with some Guns being too strong or too weak, and if you play to the lowest tier, lol28WPGun+BreakSkills.

19 / 22 / 23 makes the Blaze Gun retardedly powerful despite it having the lowest WP compared to the other two if you look at the numbers in the quote box directly above here.

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[LightningHax]

Instead of using traditional magic guns, why not get a little creative? I've always wanted a cure gun . You could use Demi Guns, Flare Guns, Holy Guns, the possibilities are insane. So give it a shot! What could possibly go wrong .

[RavenOfRazgriz]

Instead of using traditional magic guns, why not get a little creative? I've always wanted a cure gun . You could use Demi Guns, Flare Guns, Holy Guns, the possibilities are insane. So give it a shot! What could possibly go wrong .

My hope is to turn FFT 1.4 into a big community project, and finally develop the ultimate "FFT: FFhacktics edition"

^ That.  You can't exactly make it a definitive update to the game when you arbitrarily add creative license where it has no place.  Then again... this project already has an unnecessary amount of creative license being shoved around in places it has no need of being outside of "because I want to", so ugh.

[Dome]

19 / 22 / 23 makes the Blaze Gun retardedly powerful despite it having the lowest WP compared to the other two if you look at the numbers in the quote box directly above here.

Even if I do the way you suggest (Creating dupe skills to place in the black mage skillset, etc etc...) guns will never result balanced, because the damage can change depending on the power of the magic, and the WP will always be too high (As it has always been) or too low...I'm wrong?
Also, from the crapload of changes I did, the only thing that bothers you are 3 rare weapons? Nothing to say about the difficult, the battles, the monster changes, the custom skills Ramza has, the whole "enemies are at the same level you are" etc?

Then again... this project already has an unnecessary amount of creative license being shoved around in places it has no need of being outside of "because I want to", so ugh.

Have you played the demo? "Creative license" at the moment are only ideas (That may or may not be implemented), and nothing more

[RavenOfRazgriz]

Even if I do the way you suggest (Creating dupe skills to place in the black mage skillset, etc etc...) guns will never result balanced, because the damage can change depending on the power of the magic, and the WP will always be too high (As it has always been) or too low...I'm wrong?

You're wrong because if you read my posts, my only reference point has been the Guns utilizing the new Black Magic skills vs their original forms, and trying to show you why rescaling the original 3 Black Magic elements is best done using new skill slots unless you intend to have gross power differences between the Guns themselves.  Their actual damage potential is another matter entirely, I'm solely comparing the disparity in power between the same level magic cast by each Gun and the gaps in WP required to level them back out.

Also, from the crapload of changes I did, the only thing that bothers you are 3 rare weapons? Nothing to say about the difficult, the battles, the monster changes, the custom skills Ramza has, the whole "enemies are at the same level you are" etc?

Difficulty I've questioned you on about 5 times and you've made it rather clear what your target is.  I'm unconcerned about it as long as you know what that target is, are consistent about it, and aren't dumb about reaching it.  That's something you smooth out with playtesting once you've decided on a method that's airtight and consistent.

Battle changes can't be qualified on the same level I'm speaking of with the Guns.  You obviously change the enemy generic units that appear in battle when modifying for a difficulty because Vanilla was very haphazard at times.  Again, that's solely a playtesting matter as long as you don't handle it in one of the ways 1.3 flopped in rather hard with the mass-spamming of Story Hell Knights or something that's obviously nigh-impossible to justify.

Monster changes obviously occur, and obviously skills are changed and added, especially when considering Vanilla monsters often only had 1-2 skills each.  They're a question of mostly keeping to their "flavor" over their actual skills, and making sure those actual skills aren't dumb or poorly implemented.  I need to re-look at the monster thread though, I had a big post I was going to make on it but my web browser ate it and I haven't cared since.  I remember there being a lot of questionable stuff there though.

Have you played the demo? "Creative license" at the moment are only ideas (That may or may not be implemented), and nothing more

I'm mostly talking towards the Ramza changes, "let's gut Mustadio and make that Archer!" thing that was being kicked around, the obscure and mostly useless Necromancer.  1.3's Sage was nice and indirectly a faithful replacement, Red Mage would be more faithful, a new class would be fine if it were actually useful beyond obscure uber-niche level and was defined enough to justify taking a job wheel slot, etc.  Half the problem is the seemingly unnecessary bits of creative liberty being taken just because they can be taken and not to actually fix omething, the other half of the problem is that a lot of it honestly feels sub par.  Get a good idea through the wringer, it'll be worth going a bit to the side for, but at least personally it's hard to condone a chunk of ideas not only because they seem to go far more off into "personal patch" / "full mod" over "rebalance and difficulty enhancer", but also because they just feel like the thing you would expect an amateur to toss in because it seemed like a good idea at the time.  I assume you want something quality, so I'm being rather abrupt and harsh in pointing things out, since I'm guessing you don't want the end product of your work to be referred to as "FFT 1.lolpatch" or something, as you're actually trying to make something quality and playable while also not feeling like getting yourself circumsized by shoving your dick into a cheese grater.

[FFMaster]

Really, you only need 6 free slots if you are so worried. Use 3 from the original Fire/Ice/Bolt spells as the base, and remake 6 in the unlabelled spots.

[Zaroua]

I always thought the Archer skill set should be more like Mustadio's but unusable with Guns: Leg Aim/Arm Aim, normal "Charge" and some AoE volley attack that only works with Bows/Xbows. To be honest, the Archer job pales in comparison to what the other classes can do in a battle in terms of damage/survivability/utility.

[RavenOfRazgriz]

...No one's talking about nerfing the Guns.  The discussion itself has not touched upon their power level in relation to anything beyond themselves whatsoever, honestly.  Did you... erm... read? :/

There are also more than enough slots available to do what I said and make a new Job.  A bit of common sense and you can really have tons of space in this game while giving up very little.

[Shade]

Question!!!!

Why did you take away weapon guard and monster skill from their orginal job, and my god why did you gave it to the chemist????

[GeneralStrife]

Weapon guard made more sense as a squire job it's true. Parrying would be one of the first things a new warrior would learn.

[Dome]

Question!!!!

Why did you take away weapon guard and monster skill from their orginal job, and my god why did you gave it to the chemist????

That's just a temporary change, don't worry