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Equipment Discussion

Started by RavenOfRazgriz, June 19, 2010, 02:25:43 am

RavenOfRazgriz

June 19, 2010, 02:25:43 am Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 05:33:54 am by RavenOfRazgriz
Edit: Naming Convention will be updated in the future.



I finally finished putting together some draft notes for four sets of gear (the fifth set is reserved for either an awesome conceptual idea of for elemental toying).

Currently, my equipment notes look like:

[center:t4cfkhne]-Equipment Data-[/center:t4cfkhne]

Hats, Helmets, Clothes, Armors, Robes: Names are based on location of creation and class and spiced up in what ways I could think of.


Igros: MP emphasis, made for Magicians.

Igros Aegis
-P-Ev: 10%
-M-Ev: 20%
-MA: +1

"Mythril shield with a jeweled centerpiece for enhancing and repeling magic."

Igros Circlet
-HP: 95
-MP: 15
-MA: +1

"Ornate Helmet forged of Mythril with a magic stone as its centerpiece."

Igros Armor
-HP: 185
-MP: 30

"Armor forged of Mythril and imported mystic ore."

Gariland Mitre
-HP: 75
-MP: 20

"A gem-laden mitre crafted in Gariland, imbued with mystic properties."

Gariland Robe
-HP: 180
-MP: 50

"Quality robe woven by the sages in Gariland, unmatched in its combination of physical protection and mana focusing."

Gariland Sleeve
-HP: 130
-MP: 30

"A tunic based on the Gariland Robe, trading defense and mana to take on a lighter design."

Lionel: HP emphasis, made for Defense.

Lionel Plate
-P-Ev: 20%
-M-Ev: 20%

"A sturdily crafted plate designed for defense above all else."

Lionel Cross Helm
-HP: 145

"Helmet of reinforced steels fashioned at Lionel, with a protective cross-shaped guard covering the face."

Lionel Platemail
-HP: 255

"Body armor of tightly joined plates, reinforced by Lionel blacksmiths to ensure the greatest protection."

Zaland Headgear
-HP: 100

"Headgear with light plating, protective yet designed for the fast-paced combat of lightly armored units."

Zaland Frock
-HP: 220
-MP: 30

"A thick mage's frock.  Protection from enemy strikes was favored over magical potential in its design."

Zaland Vest
-HP: 185

"A vest containing small metal plates to better protect the body from enemy attacks."

Zeltennia: PA emphasis, made for Fighters.

Zeltennia Hoplon
-P-Ev: 20%
-M-Ev: 5%
-PA: +1

"A small, rounded shield designed for close quarters combat."

Zeltennia Gear
-HP: 100
-PA: +1

"A protective helmet forged in Zeltenna, combines protectiveness with maximizing vision range."

Zeltennia Mail
-HP: 170
-PA: +1

"Forged armor of several metals that proudly bears the crest of Zeltennia.  Some defense removed to allow easier movement of the arms."

Zarghidas Band
-HP: 70
-PA: +1

"A tightly-worn headband meant to aide the wearer's focus in close combat."

Zarghidas Gown
-HP: 140
-MP: 25
-PA: +1
-MA: +1

"An oddly designed robe that helps channel both physical and magical power."

Zarghidas Gi
-HP: 120
-PA: +1

"Loose fitting Gi, designed for optimum mobility in close quarters combat."

Riovanes: Speed and Offense emphasis, made for Assassins.

Riovanes Buckler
-P-Ev: 5%
-M-Ev: 5%
-PA: +1
-MA: +1

"A small buckler, meant to block key blows and strengthen the user.  Viability in extended battle is questionable."

Riovanes Busby
-HP: 60
-PA: +1
-Sp: +1

"A light helmet, seemingly of fur.  Offers little face protection, but inspires power and confidence.  The inside is still plated with metals, however."

Riovanes Plates
-HP: 130
-Sp: +1

"Thin, light plates interconnected by leather meant to prioritize mobility."

Yardow Beret
-HP: 50
-Sp: +1

"An assassin's Beret that offers little protection."

Yardow Cloak
-HP: 100
-MP: 15
-MA: +2

"A flimsy, hooded robe covered in runic symbols.  Offers little protection, but aides in the focusing of arcane powers on one's enemy."

Yardow Costume
-HP: 90
-Sp: +1

"A skin-tight costume designed to allow the wearer to move nimbly."

Lesalia: ?????????? - Reserved for some crazy idea or another that may turn up or some otherwise needed role for balance.

[RESERVED UNTIL SOMEONE GETS AN AWESOME IDEA AND/OR ELEMENTS ARE INCORPORATED INTO ARMOR/HELMETS/SHIELDS]

I raped thesaurus.com for a few of those, bite me.  The names would've been too boring else.  Fairly basic right now, but the restrictions R999 wanted me to work with (no status protection, no elemental properties, few initial status) makes me think they were meant to be that way.  Nonetheless, outside of a bit of number dickery they should be roughly equal to each other because of how the oneshot / twoshot ceiling is designed in IA and such.

Suggestions for slight number shoves to better balance / critiques / ideas for Lesalia's goods / etc welcome.  No weapons at this time because R999 has all that info and I think wants to handle those himself, but I'm unsure.  Shields are included, however, and their current conservative design is mostly so that they can easily be adapted for wide-range use without issue since I don't have the exact specifics of what units can equip them.

Accessories:  No naming scheme besides being freaking awesome.  Includes Gauntlets, Rings, Armlets, Mantles, Shoes.


Gauntlets:

Power Gauntlets
-PA: +2
-Always: Darkness

"Incredibly heavy Gauntlets that increase physical power at the cost of accuracy."

Focus Gloves
-Initial: Haste
-Cancel: Darkness

"Gloves that guide their wearer's hands in combat, allowing them to fight without their eyes and temporarily invigorating them."

Bracers
-PA: +1
-MA: +1

"Simply designed bracers meant to help the wearer communicate with their fists."

Rings:

Cursed Ring
-MA: +4
-Always: Poison
-Cancel: Regen, Protect, Shell, Reraise

"Ring that greatly enhances magic power, but curses and slowly saps the life force of the wearer."

Runic Ring
-Initial: Protect, Shell
-Cancel: Berserk

"Arcane ring whose enchantment temporarily weakens opposing strikes and keeps the mind soothed."

Reflect Ring
-Always: Reflect
-Cancel: Regen, Protect, Shell, Reraise, Haste, Float, (any other Positive Status I somehow missed)

"Warding Ring that fully cancels certain magicks and abilities, but also makes the wearer immune to magical enhancements."

Armlets:

Strength Armlet
-PA: +3
-MA: +3
-Always: Slow

"Channels all the wearer's Chakra into their fists, unleashing untold power... for a price."

Quick Bracelet
-Speed: +1
-Jump: +1

"Channels the wearer's Chakra to the feet, enhancing mobility."

Slick Armband
-Cancel: Don't Move
-Cancel: Don't Act
-Cancel: Slow
-Cancel: Sleep
-Cancel: Berserk

"Rubber armband that makes the wearer's motions fluid and mind clear, protecting them from inhibiting status."

Mantles:

Knight's Cloak
-Initial: Regen
-P-Ev: 15%

"Durable battle cloak with invigorating properties."

Priest's Cloak
-Initial: Reraise
-M-Ev: 15%

"Blessed priest's cloak that wards off evil."

Rogue's Cloak
-P-Ev 15%
-M-Ev 15%

"Flowing black cloak that obscures the wearer's movements."

Shoes:

Swift Boots
-Move +1
-Cancel: Haste, Float

"Enchanted boots that increase mobility, but negate magicks that would normally do the same."

Spring Shoes
-Jump +2

"Shoes with bouncy soles that increase jump height."

Sprint Shoes
-Speed +1

"Gotta run, gotta run, gotta run now!"

Feather Boots
-Always: Float

"Enchanted boots that allow the user to levitate above ground and protect them against several statuses."

I used Always: Status over Initial: Status if a status was meant to be crippling because Initial: Status is almost always incredibly easy to work around and barely a draw back if you're competent... especially since you can like, heal it with a single action from a different unit or even the afflicted unit.  Obviously positive status is always Initial: Status only, except in the cases of Feather Boots.




For those wondering, these are the numbers that were used in the making of these equips (Human max statistics for HP/MP, max allowed equipment HP, etc):


Human Statistics:

Class HP Tiers For Reference:

-Tier 1: 170 (Mult 100)
-Tier 2: 221 (Mult 130)
-Tier 3: 272 (Mult 160)
-Tier 4: 323 (Mult 190)

-Growth Value: 07

Class MP Tiers For Reference:

-Tier 1: 33 (Mult 080)
-Tier 2: 54 (Mult 130)
-Tier 3: 74 (Mult 180)
-Tier 4: 95 (Mult 230)

-Growth Value: 20


Max Physical Damage Output: 290 (435 Midcharge Hit)


Equipment Max Value Boosts:

Hats: 100 HP
Clothes:  185 HP
Robes: 220 HP

Total Boost: 285 / 320 HP

Helmet: 145 HP
Armor: 255 HP

Total Boost: 400 HP


Max HP values:

Tier 1 HP - 455/490/570
Tier 2 HP - 506/541/621
Tier 3 HP - 557/592/672
Tier 4 HP - 608/643/723

Max MP values:

I haven't precisely calculated these yet, but the max MP attainable with anyone character is 165, assuming Tier 4 MP + max MP gear

Notepad file containing this information also attached for convenience's and simplicity's sakes.[center:t4cfkhne][/center:t4cfkhne]

R999

Looks good Raven. I am liking that MP Armor set with HP nerfs. I'll try to put them together in a table for quick comparison. Good play on the words and -- you even went out of your way to add custom quotes!

RavenOfRazgriz

Quote from: "R999"Looks good Raven. I am liking that MP Armor set with HP nerfs. I'll try to put them together in a table for quick comparison. Good play on the words and -- you even went out of your way to add custom quotes!

I'll toss your table together right here:



Note I changed some item names to fit within 16 characters.

R999

Warning: below is a very Rough Draft.

Accessories , they are 6 types.

  • Shoes
    • 1 Move
    • 2 Jump
    • 1 Speed
    • 1 MA + initial Float


  • Armguard/Gauntlet (Fighters exclusive)
    • 1 PA
    • 2 PA + initial Slow
    • 2 PA
    • 1 MA
    • 2 MA + initial Darkness + Slow

  • Ring (Casters exclusive)
    • 1 MA
    • 2 MA + initial Slow
    • 1 PA
    • 2 PA + initial Darkness + Slow

  • Armlet (Barefists ie Monk and Hermit exclusive)
    • 1 Speed + 1 Jump
    • 2 PA + 1 MA
    • 2 PA + Initial Haste
    • 2 MA + Initial Reraise
    • 2 MA + Initial Regen
    • Immune to Don't Act, Don't Move, Slow, Sleep

  • Cloak
    • +20 % P.Evasion
    • +15% P.Evasion + initial Protect
    • +10% P.Evasion + initial Regen
    • +10% P.Evasion + initial Reraise

  • Perfume
    • 1 MA + initial Reraise
    • 1 MA + initial Protect and Shell
    • 1 MA + 1 Speed

RavenOfRazgriz

I'd cut Perfumes entirely.  They're gender specific so unless someone wants to ASM that out they're useless, and they can just as easily be made into Rings or something given those specs.

I don't see why we'd need to entirely force Gauntlets to Phys units and Rings to Magic units.  If we assume each one is spec'd to either boost magic or phys, they can be universal and equipping them on a phys unit could be used to open a skill on your secondary set in trade for a far more relevant stat boost.

I can draw up some accessory ideas as well later, but on the list you've got there I can say the Reraise Cloak is likely OP just by looking here.  Angel Ring in basic FFT / 1.3 is amazing, and that essentially only gives a single Reraise.  Sizable Physical Evasion on top of that seems silly.

R999

Well looks like we just had a heated debate over the naming scheme for Item Sets today.


Isn't this just plain Silly? Whether the item is named Twisted Headband or Zeltennia Bandana, what difference does it make? It's a Generic Item name. In fact, one could argue that Zeltennia has a history of great fighters so it makes sense for the castle to be producing items made for fighters looking for strength. The reason for using a consistent naming scheme is for the sake of minimizing the learning curve (by categorizing them accordingly to their name). Yes, some may argue that this isn't necessary, but how do you propose to name such Generic Items? While trying to keep them as Objective as possible? Do keep in mind that IA isn't a regular RPG where there are a large variety of equipment, most of which get outdated as you progress. In IA, all equipment are designed to be equally balanced from start to finish of the entire game.

I agree the Castle naming scheme [s:2ulh2cd0]maybe[/s:2ulh2cd0] is boring, however, unless we can give better names and or propose another naming scheme that offers more value, while still being as objective as possible, then please by all means, write them here. If some people do not like Castle names, that's fine. But when I ask the question, what should we name these Generic Items?  Most people wouldn't know what to do. And do remember that whether something sounds cool or not, that's also likely a subjective thing. I am not saying Castle names sound cool (most certainly not for me!) but it's a system we could use. Until we can come up with a better system, I am not going to spend a few days thinking about Generic Item names.  

Realistically speaking we are at a point where we don't have even have someone who has time to do some of the most basic things, like ENTD editing / testing. This issue is quite insignificant, unless you disagree? Let's not forget about thinking of cool names for Accessories, Weapons, and Hero items?


@Raven: I think I have overlooked a few things there for sure in the above post. I'll look forward to see what you can come up with.

RavenOfRazgriz

The entire wall at the beginning of your post is laughable for someone who wants to add a very small amount of "flavor value" into the game by shoehorning a barely sensible plot and trying to also make it somewhat canonical on top of it.  Narrow-sightedness at its best.

I'll have something for accessories tonight when I have time to work on them.

R999

I just wanted to comment on Reraise and other buffs in IA.


Reraise is useful in 1.3 mostly because how by late game you will most likely get one shotted, even if you are stacked with defenses. IA changes this aspect because even the lowest HP units cannot be one shotted while charging (assuming they have decent gear). Combine with the fact that Protect and Shell lasts much longer and will certainly keep you alive longer, the value of Reraise is at best equal if not worst than Protect or Shell. In IA, getting back up with low HP is almost as good as dead, unless you are a dedicated healer like a Paladin. Reraise is also much more common in IA, it's one of those things that reduce sandbagging from an overall point of view. Reraise gets you one additional turn after death, Protect and or Shell likely would have lasted you at least one, more if you have good defenses and or healing. Additionally Reraise is cancelled and blocked by the Unholy spell. The only major difference here is that Reraise lasts permanently while Protect/Shell lasts semi-permanently.

I will put more thoughts on this later when I have the time.

Archael

You can add value to protect / shell / defensive spells if they endure after KO

:)

defensive strategies >>> fun

RavenOfRazgriz

Quote from: "Voldemort"You can add value to protect / shell / defensive spells if they endure after KO

:)

defensive strategies >>> fun

Haha, this is a concept I have in my personal notes for another project, actually.

With IA, though, I'm not sure this is the best idea since something actually getting killed is meant to be a huge deal from everything I've seen (highly controlled damage, cost of revive vs cost of heal while alive, etc), so letting them keep the positive status on death may just turn into a means of letting people play sloppily.

Then again, as I said, revival in general does cost a ton here, so it probably wouldn't be too big a deal.

R999

Not exactly a bad idea because how stupid the AI is... wasting turns casting Protect/Shell/Haste as they are about to die again. Like Raven said Resurrection is suppose to be a bigger deal now, but that's because of the high costs for such spells (98 MP for resurrection). This needs testing but I think I'll just go with it and see how it plays out.

RavenOfRazgriz

July 11, 2010, 07:43:34 pm #11 Last Edit: July 15, 2010, 02:41:29 pm by RavenOfRazgriz
Just duly noting the edit at the top of the OP and saying that whether an item is generic or not has no bearing to the flavor value the name contains.  Players ALWAYS want to feel like the fucking epic hero, or the asshole prick villain, whichever, and cool gear is part of that persona.  Regardless, Accessories:

Everything is made under the assumption that everything except for Armlets can be equipped to all classes, but certain skills in each set will open up depending on which item is equipped. (I don't remember if we settled on using Accessories or Weapons for this role, but these should be fine regardless.)

[MOVED TO OP]

I used Always: Status over Initial: Status if a status was meant to be crippling because Initial: Status is almost always incredibly easy to work around and barely a draw back if you're competent... especially since you can like, heal it with a single action from a different unit or even the afflicted unit.  Obviously positive status is always Initial: Status only, except in the cases of Feather Boots.

I'll add them to the OP later.

RavenOfRazgriz

OP updated with accessory data (look there from now on, I'm editing them out of the other post to avoid confusion and needing to keep two posts up to date), accessories mostly are in final or near-final versions.  Only the Reflect Ring and maybe one other may see revision at this point unless my math has gone horribly wrong.

R999

Ok these look pretty good~  From the discussion in chat I felt that the term "Grim" (meaning unrelentingly harsh; merciless or severe) is more suitable for the Riovanes set than Savage (Savage just don't sound very good for describing equipment, imo).

Thanks Voldemort.

Archael


RavenOfRazgriz

I agree with Grim > Savage.

Also, switch around the shield names with Zeltennia and Riovanes, so we have Mighty Guard and Grim Shield imo, just because.  Character limit also lets us go for a full "Mighty Headband" and "Mighty Helmet"... but also means we need to shorten "Guardian Headgear" (to merely "Guardian Gear", IDK?) because its 17 characters, and IIRC the game doesn't like anything over 16.  If I'm wrong, correct me on that.

Otherwise, that's really nice though.  Much better than what we started with, heh, between boring city names and me raping a thesaurus more than Stephenie Meyer.  Holy shit I've just realized how bad that went.

R999

Alternate name for "Guardian"  => Sentinel.  Similar meaning, sounds a lot more catchy.

Archael

use whatever you like but please no town names

that was just terribad

RavenOfRazgriz

Quote from: "Voldemort"use whatever you like but please no town names

that was just terribad

You missed the discussion we had over this back when Asmo X was around here.  Haha.

Anywho, based on what you provided:

Mystic Aegis
Mystic Circlet
Mystic Armor
Mystic Mitre
Mystic Sleeve
Mystic Robe

Sentinel Ward
Sentinel Helmet
Sentinel Plate
Sentinel Gear
Sentinel Vest
Sentinel Frock

Mighty Guard
Mighty Helmet
Mighty Cuirass
Mighty Headband
Mighty Garb
Mighty Gown

Grim Shield
Grim Visor
Grim Chain
Grim Beret
Grim Costume
Grim Cloak

?

(The only huge change I think is Grim Mask = Grim Beret for the sake of being able to have a fitting sprite, unless there is a fitting Mask sprite I don't know about or someone wants to make one.)

If there's no arguments to be had over / improvements to be made to these I'll add them to the OP.  Thanks Voldemort.

R999

Asmo himself couldn't come up with better generic names when I asked. In the end, as long as we have a naming convention for item sets, it serves the same purpose.

We'll just move on from here on.