R999 holy place

[Kaijyuu]

:gay: :ban:

EDIT: fail :(

[FFMaster]

The AI is usually very smart about who to Phoenix Down/Raise2, they tend to raise people who will have a turn immediately after. So you'll ultimately have to go and kill these ressurected targets again, possibly after they get another turn (perhaps even Elixir themselves).

No, they aren't smart at all. The enemy try to revive at all costs. To counter PD, use Geomancy. Kills off the revived unit, hits the other, chance of status. For Raise 2, hit them with a physical. Wow, they can't cast it anymore!!!!

But as I have said there are still a lot of Zodiac battles where they are still prone to MP damage

Please, give me an example. A specific one. All I've heard is "Zodiac battles" continuously.

[Aquilae]

It depends on the battle. I don't understand why you would say Damage > MP Damage (normal battle) because there is more HP (former is more than the latter)? Post chapter 2 indeed, most units go down in less than 3 hits if they don't have support. But have you considered that, if you mana burn, sometimes they go down in ONE hit as opposed to 3?

wtf?

The part about the burning Zalmo's MP isn't because you needed it, it's because, if you teleport to him and Osafone him once, the match is already over (Delita should be able to nearly solo the map by himself with some help).

Zalmo has a large pool of MP, meaning that if you Osafune him once it won't deplete his MP fully, he can still casts around 2-3 Raise2s. Zalmo still has Item meaning he can sandbag you to hell even if you repeatedly drain his MP. Besides, Delita can't cope with Zalmo's guys which have lots of sandbag capabilities ensuring that he will go down eventually.

This works not just for this particular battle. On top of my head, the battle with Meliadoul, you wouldn't even need to wear Maintenance. Lure her to walk close to you by waiting (she still out of range), and start off the fight with Osafone + MP Absrob (100% success rate). The match is already over at that point. Yes, it's possible to win these fights by other means of course, but what I am saying here is that MP breaking gives the player an immensively easier playing experience (in fact, a lot of these battles are even easier than Vanilla because Swordskillers require MP).

Or you could steal / break Meliadoul's weapon, the latter of which is much easier than relying on tricky positioning. It simply requires a guy with a Gun and Battle Skill, and a bit of luck, and you've defanged her without needing to Osafune + MP Absorb, the latter of which is very risky considering the Ninjas and Archers running around.

On a personal note about Assasination battles, I always kill the target last whenever possible. I will kill every unit in the map and wait for them to Crystalize, steal all their items, and then finally go rape the MP-less boss. It's just more fun this way. I say MP Damage >= HP Damage depending on context and your goals.

A list of the post C2 Assassination battles (because the earlier ones bar Wiegraf needed you to kill off the team before taking down the target, as you can't really "assassinate" the boss):

Riovanes Rooftop
At the gate of Limberry Castle
Inside of Limberry Castle
Bervenia Free City (Meliadoul)
Outside of the Church (Zalmo)
Bed Desert (Balk I)
Inside of Igros Castle (Dycedarg)
Hall of St. Murond Temple
Chapel of St. Murond Temple (Zombag)
Murond Holy Place x3 (Balk, Kletian, Rofel)

I'm not seeing many worthwhile items to steal. The only bosses which are useless when out of MP are Meliadoul, Dycedarg and Zalbag. Meliadoul can be disabled by easier means, while Dycedarg's guys don't have useful equipment to steal, and Zalbag is running around killing stuff anyway. The Demons don't give you anything in the case of Zalbag, unless you want Remedies and useable items.

All the rest of the bosses still rape you without MP, and it isn't a viable strategy at all to disable them. The only item which is truly unique is the Chaos Blade from Rofel at Murond Temple, in which you can't disable any one of them (700+ damage melee / Swordskills say hi). The Oracle at Balk I has a Whale Whisker, but that is poachable and isn't a useful item either way. Balk I anally rapes most units, making trying to obtain it more trouble than it's worth.

What happens if you can't kill the target, especially when they have so much more HP than MP. Two Sages are charging nukes on you, Oracles firing off Confusion and Sleep. All you have to do is teleport in, and Osafone the mofos, and then they will almost always be permanently screwed, for the rest of the battle. How can you possibly achieve this with an AoE attack that probably need at least 3-4 turns to kill them off?

All you have to do is teleport in, melee the mofos, and you permanently screw them and their Item-happy teammates over. Also, I've never heard of a single battle in 1.3 that is so Magic-heavy. Charging just makes units very vulnerable, and given your description it should be a cakewalk. 4 Ninjas, rush in and one-shot the mofos. They can even pull off a tanky setup due to the relative frailness of the casters, not needing a lot of power to take them down.

This also begs the question: what about the rest of the scrubs? Physical enemies are more common than spellcasting enemies, and it is doubtful whether MP Draining is a viable strategy as it doesn't help with ~60% of the enemies.

FFM already addressed the other stuff.

[Dome]

Also, I've never heard of a single battle in 1.3 that is so Magic-heavy

Velius, but destroying his MA is better than using mp absorb on him
That's why R999 sucks, he doesn't even understand the game

[R999]

Also, I've never heard of a single battle in 1.3 that is so Magic-heavy

Velius, but destroying his MA is better than using mp absorb on him
That's why R999 sucks, he doesn't even understand the game

I never said destroying MP is better than destroying MA. *rolls eyes. When I get the chance to play 1.3 again I'll list the battles out. It does not have to be Magic-heavy. In any fight where there are a few casters, it can make a huge difference in a fight. For instance, do you consider Zalbaag Magic Heavy? It does not have to be that way. Unless you meant to say MP-heavy.


@Aquilae, seems we have come to a disagreement. That's fine I will hold my opinion you hold yours. We are playing the same game. Zalmo is owned after one or two Osafones, or with help of a Spell Absorb. I don't remember on top of my head. So what if he has Item, it didn't matter when I was fighting him. He was trying to use Phoenix Downs and X-Potions throughout the battle more than anything else. Managed to  use Hi-Ether before getting sucked out instantly again. I haven't seen this guy cast Raise2 once. Delita can solo the map with little support.

Riovanes Rooftop
At the gate of Limberry Castle
Inside of Limberry Castle
Bervenia Free City (Meliadoul)
Outside of the Church (Zalmo)
Bed Desert (Balk I)
Inside of Igros Castle (Dycedarg)
Hall of St. Murond Temple
Chapel of St. Murond Temple (Zombag)
Murond Holy Place x3 (Balk, Kletian, Rofel)

Bervenia Free City - How is a little Wait command and initial position = Tricky? I don't even need luck in this fight. As I have said previously, Osafone and Spell Absorbs are 100%  and 85% spells. Weapon Breaking with a gun, is surely a lot more risky.

Outside of Church - If your Samurai/Osafone is weak, or you have bad Zodiac compatibility, you will have a harder time to suck his MP. I certainly did not.

Bed Dessert - There's one oracle here that can be rendered useless with one Osafone. No need MP draining abilities in this fight.

Inside of Igros Castle - There is one or two Knights that can has magic here. And if sometimes they tend to do PA/MA breaks (I hate these) on you or Zalbag. In this fight, I still strip their MP anyway - makes it slightly easier and more fun.

Hall of St. Murond Temple - if this is the fight with the Holy Priest with Swordskills, the same Osafone can rape his mana to 50 MP in one shot. Making this fight significantly easier.



I can assure you that there are a lot more battles in 1.3 where there are situations where using such a strategy will make it significantly easier throughout the game.

All you have to do is teleport in, melee the mofos, and you permanently screw them and their Item-happy teammates over.

The difference here is, if you can't kill them in one turn, their spells will fire off and you will eat it. Even if you can, they will be resurrected with some degree of threat, where if they are killed with no mana, they become even less of a threat.


PS: @FFM, I never said I had trouble with countering PD once. There are a ton of ways to counter that. Short-charge Raise2 or instant-cast Raise2s are more problematic. I also find that Geomancy has poor vertical radius. I prefer using Summons and Lightning Stab/Stasis Sword for these over Geomancy.

[Aquilae]

I never said destroying MP is better than destroying MA. *rolls eyes. When I get the chance to play 1.3 again I'll list the battles out. It does not have to be Magic-heavy. In any fight where there are a few casters, it can make a huge difference in a fight. For instance, do you consider Zalbaag Magic Heavy? It does not have to be that way. Unless you meant to say MP-heavy.

What I meant was battles with a lot of casters. When there are a few casters, midcharging them and targeting them first would make a huge difference. The only battles where you have that much casters in your example are battles with multiple demons, in which case their MP / HP would be too high to care about.

@Aquilae, seems we have come to a disagreement. That's fine I will hold my opinion you hold yours. We are playing the same game. Zalmo is owned after one or two Osafones, or with help of a Spell Absorb. I don't remember on top of my head. So what if he has Item, it didn't matter when I was fighting him. He was trying to use Phoenix Downs and X-Potions throughout the battle more than anything else. Managed to  use Hi-Ether before getting sucked out instantly again. I haven't seen this guy cast Raise2 once. Delita can solo the map with little support.

Contradiction much?

Riovanes Rooftop
At the gate of Limberry Castle
Inside of Limberry Castle
Bervenia Free City (Meliadoul)
Outside of the Church (Zalmo)
Bed Desert (Balk I)
Inside of Igros Castle (Dycedarg)
Hall of St. Murond Temple
Chapel of St. Murond Temple (Zombag)
Murond Holy Place x3 (Balk, Kletian, Rofel)

Bervenia Free City - How is a little Wait command and initial position = Tricky? I don't even need luck in this fight. As I have said previously, Osafone and Spell Absorbs are 100%  and 85% spells. Weapon Breaking with a gun, is surely a lot more risky.

Outside of Church - If your Samurai/Osafone is weak, or you have bad Zodiac compatibility, you will have a harder time to suck his MP. I certainly did not.

Bed Dessert - There's one oracle here that can be rendered useless with one Osafone. No need MP draining abilities in this fight.

Inside of Igros Castle - There is one or two Knights that can has magic here. And if sometimes they tend to do PA/MA breaks (I hate these) on you or Zalbag. In this fight, I still strip their MP anyway - makes it slightly easier and more fun.

Hall of St. Murond Temple - if this is the fight with the Holy Priest with Swordskills, the same Osafone can rape his mana to 50 MP in one shot. Making this fight significantly easier.

Will Meliadoul move up all the time? Will the Archer up top rush forward and snipe your guys? Will the Ninjas run up and Throw stuff at you? Will your Osafune user + Spell Absorb caster be put at unnecessary risk facing those Ninjas? A Weapon Breaking unit doesn't take up two slots, can disable Meliadoul all the same and stay back to support. Meliadoul won't be Swordskilling at all, if her MP is depleted she can still SS with the help of a Hi-Ether.

Zalmo is still dangerous when out of MP, and he has no lack of MP Recovery / other options. Besides, to deal with him you often have to go through his team, which is a challenge in itself. MP Draining will stop Raise2s, and that's it.

Hall of St. Murond is Rofel, Vormav and Kletian.

The point I'm trying to make is that in Assassination Missions, that strategy of yours is not viable at all.

I can assure you that there are a lot more battles in 1.3 where there are situations where using such a strategy will make it significantly easier throughout the game.

What are they?

All you have to do is teleport in, melee the mofos, and you permanently screw them and their Item-happy teammates over.

The difference here is, if you can't kill them in one turn, their spells will fire off and you will eat it. Even if you can, they will be resurrected with some degree of threat, where if they are killed with no mana, they become even less of a threat.

The difference is, if you Osafune them as opposed to killing them, you cannot disable their teammates as well, which will no doubt pose a threat to your guys / restore MP to the casters. If you kill one of them, the enemy team loses two turns, one for the caster and the other for the scrub that attempts rezzing. Also, I think you're overestimating the durability of the casters

PS: @FFM, I never said I had trouble with countering PD once. There are a ton of ways to counter that. Short-charge Raise2 or instant-cast Raise2s are more problematic. I also find that Geomancy has poor vertical radius. I prefer using Summons and Lightning Stab/Stasis Sword for these over Geomancy.

I don't think you understand. His point was countering PD > countering Hi-Ether / a flood of melee guys who aren't forced to rez.

[formerdeathcorps]

R999, I don't exactly see why your strategy is necessary.  If your mission is to KO the boss, the easiest way is to usually bring a super-offensive team and focus fire on the boss.  Your indirect method exposes you to more attacks, especially since a unit with 0 MP can still deal decent damage (unless he's a mage), while a unit with 0 HP can't.

[boomkick]

R999, I don't exactly see why your strategy is necessary.  If your mission is to KO the boss, the easiest way is to usually bring a super-offensive team and focus fire on the boss.  Your indirect method exposes you to more attacks, especially since a unit with 0 MP can still deal decent damage (unless he's a mage), while a unit with 0 HP can't.

Oracles can do massive book damage and stick damage.

[Bloodthirster0]

why are you guys insisting with this,he'll always say that MP Damage is better and blabla and units do not restore MP and blabla,just ignore it.

btw,with his strategy,he has to act more,meaning that he gets more exp,which will occasionally means overlevel,also,units do restore MP with a certain frequency,in a different patch,units often use Elixirs/Hi-Ethers/Chackra for MP purposes,a good example was 1x1 Wiegraf using Chackra to restore MP many times during the battle and he dont even ran out of MP or had low HP,and he used it a few times when full health and about 20% of his MP

[PX_Timefordeath]

[Dome]

He died?

[Dokurider]

MP draining in Chapter 4 is useless you say?

[Dome]

MP draining in Chapter 4 is useless you say?

MP Draining is not useless, but it isn't gamebreaking, at all

[Dome]

Updated
Read the first post

spoiler: "If you are lazy read here":1g74ih4k

He/she started a whole project, only to leave it alone after 7.3 seconds 'cause Arch flamed him/her

[Kaijyuu]

spoiler: My theory:dxomxww8

R999 = Voldemort. You know, like in fight club.

[GeneralStrife]

spoiler: My theory:2j6zwr9o

R999 = Voldemort. You know, like in fight club.

could be