FFT Arena: Discussion Thread (12/29/09)

[PX_Timefordeath]

You guys got 1 more day to send in teams. Go go go go go!

[PX_Timefordeath]

Okay guys. Do to some IRL problems, I can't be as active. Therefore, somebody has to take over for now.

spoiler: Dokurider:lf42me91

#1: Queen
Female
Sagittarius
Fury 40
Faith 70
Summoner
Time Magic

Short Charge
Float
White Staff
Golden Hairpin
Light Robe
Salty Rage

Primary Skillset: Moogle, Fairy, Silf, Titan, Odin, Golem, Carbunkle
Secondary Skillset: Haste, Slow, Don't Move, Float

#2: Black Sabbath
Female
Aries
Fury 40
Faith 70
Wizard

Arrow Guard
Magic Attack Up
Jump +1
Faith Rod

Holy Miter
Black Robe
Angel Ring

Primary Skillset: Ice 1, Ice 4,Poison, Frog, Flare

#3: Guns 'n Roses
Female
Leo
Fury 40
Faith 60
Mediator
Sing
Counter Flood
Equip Shield
Walk on Water
Mythril Shield
Platina Shield
Flash Hat
White Robe
Angel Ring

Primary Skillset: Threaten, Preach, Refute, Insult, Mimic Daravon
Secondary Skillset: Angel Song

#4: Led Zepplin
Male
Leo
Fury 70
Faith 60
Oracle
Item
Meatbone Slash
Defense Up

Ivory Rod

Black Hood
Black Costume
Elf Mantle

Primary Skillset: Spell Absorb, Diminish, Zombie, Paralyze
Secondary Skillset: Remedy, Holy Water, Phoenix Down

spoiler: Zaen:lf42me91

Esdra JP Cost: 3330
Summoner
Female
40 Fury
65 Faith
Cancer
---
Summon
Draw Out
Auto Potion
Magic Attack UP
Ignore Height
---
Sage Staff

Holy Miter
Robe of Lords
Wizard Mantle
---
Primary Skills- Odin, Leviathan
Secondary Skills- Asura


Rutherford JP Cost: 3220
Chemist
Male
40 Fury
40 Faith
Aries
---
Item
Elemental
MA Save
Magic Attack UP
Move HP-Up
---
Mythril Gun

Flash Hat
Light Robe
Magic Gauntlet
---
Primary Skills- X-Potion, Phoenix Down
Secondary Skills- All


Lance JP Cost: 3380
Lancer
Male
65 Fury
40 Faith
Libra
---
Jump
Throw
Speed Save
Defense UP
Move +1
---
Mythril Spear
Genji Shield
Leather Helmet
Carabini Mail
Feather Mantle
---
Primary Skills- Jump Level 5, Jump Vert 3
Secondary Skills- Shuriken, Axe, Ball


William Tell JP Cost: 3350
Archer
Male
70 Fury
40 Faith
Capricorn
---
Charge
Item
HP Restore
Two Swords
Fly
---
Hunting Bow
Hunting Bow
Green Beret
Black Costume
Power Wrist
---
Primary Skills- Charge +1, Charge +2, Charge +4, Charge +5
Secondary Skills- X-Potion, Phoenix Down

spoiler: FFMaster:lf42me91

Unit1
Male
Scorpio
40
40
Mime

Unit2
Male
Cancer
40
40
Mime

Unit3
Male
Pisces
70
70
Monk
Summon Magic
HP Restore
Equip Armor
Float


Crystal Helmet
Crystal Armor
Sprint Shoes

Chakra, Hp Restore, Stigma Magic
Moogle, Golem, Fairy

Unit4
Female
Scorpio
70
40
Monk
Dance
Meatbone Slash
Equip Armor
Move-HP Up
FS Bag

Crystal Helmet
Crystal Armor
Power Wrist

Earth Slash, Chakra, Revive, Stigma Magic
Polka Polka

spoiler: logus:lf42me91

Hilda
female
aries
70
40
chemist
battle skill

two swords
move+1

romanda gun
assassin dagger
green beret
secret clothes
setiemson

phoenix down, Hi-Ether, Remedy
weapon break

Sammy

female
aries
40
40
samurai

counter magic
magic attack up
move+2

chirijiraden

circlet
crystal mail
red shoes

kikuichimonji,masamune

Rocketman
male
gemini
70
70
archer
punch art
hp restore
Two Hands
move+2

Arbalist

twist Headband
Power Sleeve
Reflect Ring

charge+5
stigma magic, chakra

raaawwwwwwr
female
sagittarius
40
70
summoner
yin-yang magic
absorb used mp
short charge
move+1

faith rod

flash hat
wizard robe
setiemson

fairy, bahamut
spell absorb, life drain, doubt faith

spoiler: AeroGP:lf42me91

Carmine
male
libra
40
70
chemist
yin-yang magic
regenerator
short charge
move-hp up
romanda gun

flash hat
rubber costume
magic gauntlets
x-potion, hi-ether, phoenix down, blind, spell absorb, pray faith, blind rage
3350
Scarlet
female
sagittarius
40
70
oracle
item
counter
short charge
move-hp up
iron fan

holy miter
light robe
magic ring
x-potion, hi-ether, phoenix down, blind, spell absorb, pray faith, blind rage
3300

Maroon
male
libra
40
40
bard
talk skill
counter
defense up
float
bloody strings

flash hat
light robe
magic gauntlets
threaten, preach, insult, angel song, life song
3400

Rose
female
aries
40
40
mediator
time magic
regenerator
defense up
move+1
romanda gun

holy miter
wizard robe
magic ring
haste, haste2, slow, stop, don't move, threaten, preach, insult, mimic daravon
3320

spoiler: ProRPGGamer:lf42me91

Killa
Male
Virgo
70
55
Ninja
Charge
Counter
Concentrate
Move-HP Up

Short Edge
Black Hood
Judo Outfit
Angel Ring

Shuriken, Ball, Hammer, Ninja Sword, Sword, Spear, Charge+1, Charge+2, Charge+3


Pot Dealer
Male
Virgo
70
55
Chemist
Battle Skill
HP Restore
Concentrate
Move-HP Up

Mythril Gun
Black Hood
Black Costume
Feather Mantle

X-Potion, Hi-Ether, Remedy, Phoenix Down, Weapon Break, Magic Ruin

Caller
Female
Pisces
70
70
Summoner
Time Magic
Counter Magic
Short Charge
Move+1

Faith Rod
Golden Hairpin
Wizard Robe
Magic Ring

Moogle, Fairy, Odin, Haste, Slow

STFU
Male
Virgo
70
55
Mediator
Item
Meatbone Slash
Equip Armor
Move+1

Stone Gun
Crystal Helmet
Crystal Mail
Salty Rage

X-Potion, Ether, Hi-Ether, Phoenix Down, Threaten, Preach, Refute, Insult, Mimic Daravon

spoiler: Smitson:lf42me91

Roger
Lancer
Female
Capricorn
Brave 70
Faith 40
Level Jump 5,Vert Jump 7
Chakra, Stigma Magic
HP Restore
Magic Defend Up
Move HP Up

Mythril Spear
Crystal Shield
Crystal Helm
Crystail Mail
Salty Rage

Smitson
Knight
Male
Cancer
Brave 70
Faith 40
Speed Ruin,
Bizen Boat, Murasame,Kikuichimoji, Masamune
Counter
Defense Up
Move +1

Excalibur
Circlet
Genji Armor
Bracer

Prinny
Summoner
Female
Virgo
Brave 70
Faith 70
Shiva, Ramuh,Fairy,Odin Bahamut
Haste,Slow,
MP Restore
Short Charge
Move + 1

Oak Staff
Holy Miter
Light Robe
Sentiemson

Bob
Mime
Male
Serpentarius
Brave 70
Faith 70

spoiler: degrofm:lf42me91

Mahler
Male
Virgo
70
40
Thief
Punch Art
Speed Save
Equip Crossbow
Move +2
Arbalist

Twisted Headband
Judo Outfit
Angel Ring

Steal Heart
Chakra, Earth Slash, Revive
2940

Brahms
Male
Taurus
60
40
Knight
Item
Speed Save
Throw Item
Move +1
Iron Sword
Crystal Shield
Crystal Helmet
Crystal Mail
Sprint Shoes

Power Ruin, Speed Ruin, Magic Ruin
X Potion, Phoenix Down, Hi-Ether
2780

Serova
Female
Pisces
50
65
Wizard

Counter Flood
Magic Att Up
Move +2
Wizard Rod

Black Hood
Light Robe
108 Gems

Ice 2, Fire 2, Flare

3280

Lucia
Female
Scorpio
50
65
Time Mage
White Magic
Dragon Spirit
Short Charge
Move +1
H Bag

Holy Miter
Robe of Lords
Setiemson

Haste, Slow
Raise, Wall, Cure 3
3140

[FFMaster]

Expect 1-2 videos within 20 hours, if not sooner. Kind of busy right now, but will have plenty of time later.

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRhdFeSm5mE - ProRPGGamer vs. Smitson
EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx76hEAxtkU - AeroGP vs. degrofm

[Otabo]

Damn, I wish I'd have known about this - I would have sent in a team.

[Shade]

Whaat?
No one with faith rod + short charge+status? Ok? No tanks with save the queen, damage split, defense up, regen, move-hp up? Seriusly?

[logus]

@first match: how the hell did the chemist manage 281 damage in one shot with mythril gun (trying to weapon break) ??????
I know it was good compat (virgo and capricorn), but still, mythril gun has only 5 wp! Unless my eyes fooled me, there's something wrong (did you change gun damage calculation?)

And a gunner with concentrate... guns don't miss iirc o_O I don't get it...

[FFMaster]

FFT: Arena - Dokurider vs. FFMaster
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHzepPFGe8I


Due to a massive bug with the formula change to Mythril Gun, we are going to have to change it back to WP*WP.

EDIT:
FFT: Arena - logus vs. Zaen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZUBAIkqPa0

[Dokurider]

FFT: Arena - Dokurider vs. FFMaster
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHzepPFGe8I


Due to a massive bug with the formula change to Mythril Gun, we are going to have to change it back to WP*WP.

EDIT:
FFT: Arena - logus vs. Zaen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZUBAIkqPa0

I didn't catch this until just now, but PX made me change my Mediator to male.

[FFMaster]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTc6C6xda28
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd33YuB_hgQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTVLuM7-mQ4

[logus]

alright so, what I've seen so far(judging my team since it's what I watched the most, will analyze other teams as I watch more carefully):

fury hack:
Seemed to work fine. It made 40/40 DO users good, but DO will get nerfed anyways.

equipment-wise:

arbalest is somewhat strong. My archer was very vulnerable though, and anything with flee would make a joke out of him. We need to see more defensive teams to check out how fury/equipments are.

Blood sword is the obvious exception to the above. 10 wp with 2-hands/2-swords and drain is too good. Heck, you can 108 gems, and no equipment helps you against dark. It's good even as a 1-handed weapon, due to packing a shield and going happy with concentrate/atk up. Solutions:
1. forced 2-hands (less of a tank, no shield, no damage raising except for atk up, and can't have concentrate with that, can we?).
2. Reduce wp to 7 (zodiac suggested 8, but eeh... I'm not sure 8 is low enough)
I still think it should drain hp tho, it's the "thing" of the sword. We just need to balance it.

Stone gun is a very strong weapon. Sure, you have the "problem" of having to heal the guy, but in a large map you get a big advantage since initial actions are expendable. I'm not sure what to suggest on this one. Range down to 4 seems gay, reduction of wp seems meh. The issue is that the gun never misses, doesn't depend on anything to deal awsm damage, so you can use more tanky stuff and still do great. Seems a bit too good compared to the other choices...

Faith Rod: as someone posted, no one really tried status'ing with this, my guess is it would be nice. I have yet to see faith rod as a big vulnerability, as it didn't seem to influentiate a lot (the casters would die with 70 faith or 100 faith, it didn't really matter, but it improved their damage otherwise).

setiemson is STRONG. makes you double turn too easily at the simple expense of your accessory. Give weapons init:haste, but not accessories, imo. Especially perfumes, pulling even more people to females...

vanish mantle: lol, px was on drugs. Always: Vanish (read as Innate Concentrate) shouldn't be there, especially for accessory (maybe some specific clothing/robe with drawbacks?). Too bad I went for reflect ring afraid of magic with my archer. A cool solution would be to make it so that the owner kinda got "sunken state" as a reaction, but that must be impossible to code...

Well, a basic solution would be init:vanish, 25/30 eva, looking like 1.3's... til we find a cooler solution.


Skill:
Masamune is balanced, I thought it would be too good, but damn regen keeps getting in the way so, it looks ok. Didn't use the shell/protect one, but that one should be nice (I'll probably replace masamune with it next time).

But every agressive DO obviously needs a kick in the nuts. As already discussed, faith formula is a solution, but if it is applied, I suggest that we also double the DO constants. Else it will be too weak to be decently used... 40 faith is just going to laugh at you. 70 against 70 will do 49% of the damage, so, barely the same damage(ok, maybe constants* 1.8~). It forced you to go 70 faith(vulnerable to magic) and if the guy got enough meat he will survive. It is also a good way to punish faith rod.

Maybe reduce Kiku range to 4? 5 is a bit more than it needs imo, even with faith formula.

I think oracle's skills need a little lift (5-10% ?) in their formulas. Low faith screws them too much, and they should be able to do status more reliably than a mediator (they have charge times and charging status ffs!). But then again, faith rod is there, we need more testing.

Another thing is charging status. 150% damage = "please, rape me." 120-125% would be fine. And charm/confusion not canceling it would also be good.

And, last but not least, zodiac made some good considerations on using more elemental armors/clothes and stuff. I wish he posted his ideas here.

EDIT: Almost forgot. BUFF SQUIDS!

[Xifanie]

Diamond Shield is 15% P-EV, 20% M-EV, Immune Slow/Stop/Sleep
Diamond Helmet is 80HP, 20MP, Immune Darkness/Confusion/Berserk
Diamond Armor is 120HP, 10MP, Immune Silence/Frog/Poison
Gold Helmet is 90HP, Weak Lightning, Half Earth
Gold Armor is 120HP, Weak Lightning, Half Earth
Black Hood is 120HP, Weak Holy, Immune Darkness (status)

Reduce twisted headband's HP; +2PA is a killer and barely has less HP than the other hats
Silk Robe is 80HP, 25MP, Immune: Petrify, Blood Suck, Undead, Confusion, Frog, Berserk

Lower Helmet's HP by about 25-30%
Buff the Genji Helmet/Armor, 50HP is ridiculous and the +1MA is cool at best in most cases, it will never create a real advantage like the +1PA does. 70HP helmet and 90HP armor would be fine from what I see. Else there's no reason to use them.

[logus]

your silk robe is broken zodiac, it needs less hp for all that stat protection.

Also, the same problem that applies to the genji armor and helmet applies to the gauntlet:

you rarely if ever will need +2 PA AND +2 MA, so the weakness throws the gauntlet to garbage, since you got power wrist for +2PA and no penalty, and magic gauntlet for +2MA and no penalty. I'd say +3 PA/MA and the weaknesses, that should make it usable. perhaps +4, not sure if +1 stat is worth the weakness, but then again, not everyone is out there with elemental stuff to fuck you, so keep it at +3.

Also, mythril sword is Flame Sword: 10 W Fire Elemental

good to give healing ability to knights with team packing black costume,  countered by black costume itself among other stuff. Comments?

[PX_Timefordeath]

     

[Shade]

Question. If I unlock the job with 250jp. Can I use those 250jp get abilties?

[logus]

not that I'm aware of, shade.

Materia Blade/Sword of Might is somewhat useless, no? forced 2-hands, same WP as other 1-handed weapons, +2 pa? I can't really picture an efficient way to use it that would be better than another 1-handed sword with a shield or supportive (2-hands/2-swords).

katanas need to be remodeled. The ones we got now haven't taken in consideration that katana is (br/100)*WP*PA, which will make them always weaker than the other weapons. The bad thing is that only samurai can use them without wasting a support, so I'd say you give them special effects (I really liked kyomori and  chiri) instead of pure fighting power (samurais would be usually doing DO anyways). Doesn't mean we can't have some strong katanas as well, but you'd only need one for whoever tries a physical/hybrid samurai (hybrid since, with faith formula, you can't  smack low faith people down with DO anymore).

orichalcum dagger makes little sense, AI has too much of a hard time with protect/shell (unless we test and it shows otherwise).
Reduce Main Gauche and Assassin Dagger W-EV by 5% (I guess? maybe 10%). 2 swords + abandon = main gauche makes you way too hard to hit keeping a good WP. And you didn't even need an accessory! You could also try limiting one main gauche per character, or just reduce WP to 7.

Nagrarock could be a holy elemental sword. Maybe healing as well? 10 WP anyways, to keep the pattern. I'll edit this post as more ideas come to mind.

[Shade]

btw why is Madlemgen is weaker then Papyrus Plate?
I mean dark holy is weaker then flare.

[Dokurider]

Dark Holy is boost-able.

[Shade]

boost able by only one item in game, then undead drain it and we have n-kai armlet.

Isn't save the queen little bit WAY TOO GOD MODDED!
I mean it has 13wp and always: protect(can't say it right).
To me it seems alot more powerful then other knight swords.

[Zaen]

The others either have tons of EV, ini haste and strengthen holy + holy element + absorb holy, or cast awesome magic.

[Shade]

any spell casted by PA based knight isn't going to do alot of damage with those spells.

those excalibures are pretty bad againts anyone wielding te same weapon, but if enemy doesn't then it's fine weapon.

Defender is alomost good as save the queen, cause of 14wp and 50% evade.

BTW That blood sword should be 8wp at max. Also that the weapon s boost able and even if you would try reduce the damage by equipin n-kai armlet it would not work since the damm weapon's ability is drain hp or something and it avoids all half darkness and crap like that.