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I don't understand FFT.

Started by Caesus, December 22, 2009, 06:10:41 pm

Caesus

December 22, 2009, 06:10:41 pm Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Caesus
Even though the story is good for the game, there's just a few things I never understood about it... but maybe one of you could answer.

# Where did the Shrine Knights come from?
# What was their main goal?
# What was their relation to the Church?

Also, something about Delta.

# Did he even use his best friend, Ramza?
# Why did he use everyone?
# What relations did he have to the church / shrine knights to get this power? Or, was he just a pawn being used for a while by the Shrine Knights to achieve their goals?

Dokurider

December 22, 2009, 07:02:58 pm #1 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Dokurider
Oh LastingDawn! You're needed.

Caesus

December 22, 2009, 07:04:48 pm #2 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Caesus
Huh? Why do you say that?

mav

December 22, 2009, 07:37:10 pm #3 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by mav
He's a nice guy, he knows the story very well, and his analysis tends to be spot on. In the meantime, you may wanna check out the Final Fantasy Wiki and look to see if some of your questions are answered there. It's quite user friendly.

Welcome to the board, by the way.

philsov

December 22, 2009, 08:02:06 pm #4 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by philsov
Quote# Where did the Shrine Knights come from?

They are both the sword and shield of the glabados church, figuratively speaking.  Think of them as something akin to the Knights Templar.

Quote# What was their main goal?

Of the organization as a whole, I would assume a military-like partnership with the church.  Since it was the church's goal to ultimately create a theocracy (with the church acting a mediator between the two warring factions who eroded each other down), these guys would be the front runners and enforcers.  See for example the conversation with Izlude:

QuoteIzlude: Then, let's fight together! Our goals are the same!
Listen well, Ramza! The Glabados want a world where all people
are equal! St. Ajora's ideal world, is 'God's world'! You know
people don't trust the royal family or nobility! We must do
something before Ivalice is ruined!!

Ramza: You started this war! Was that the will of God?

Izlude: Certain sacrifices must be made for the revolution!
Decadent royalty and nobles must pay! For the people! Now,
cooperate with us. As Delita did!

However, in the more specific cases of the shrine knights encountered by Ramza, the Shrine Knights due to their both raw power and likely strong measure of faith, made them prime candidates for Holy Stone possession.  Remember, the church was trying to re-enact the brave story, and along the way the not-so-Holy stones made their way to various Shrine Knights and with it the objectives of those individuals changed.

Funeral after all did die, I don't know if he was some mastermind that eventually got killed, or an otherwise semi-blissful ignorant thinking first of the people with a metric asston of corrupt people working under him.

Quote# Did he even use his best friend, Ramza?

Of course.  He banked on him somehow stopping the battle at Beltha, among other things.

Quote# Why did he use everyone?

Machiavelli had a word with him.  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machiavellianism

In short Delita was in the mindset that the ends justified the means.  He loved Ovelia and he wanted to be a hero of the people, for the people.  If it meant several assassinations and a lot of underhanded stuff along the way, whatever, just do it and peacefully rule in the bloody wake.  There is of course a degree of hypocrisy in this mindset and set of actions, which comes to a head at the very end of the game when he loses the one thing he loved as a direct result of his actions.  A lovely piece of poetic justice, imo.

Quote# What relations did he have to the church / shrine knights to get this power? Or, was he just a pawn being used for a while by the Shrine Knights to achieve their goals?

That... is a massive storyline jump and is never fully explained.  How he goes from a commoner, thought to be burned and possibly left for dead, far to the West all the way over several regions East, and in the direct line of command with Goltana.  He went to Goltana first, and from there got in line with the shrine knights, or at least the church, because the church had its hand in many pies.  

Regarding Delita, the "church" is actually show with some inner conflict, as the point in which he kills Zalmo is the same time Balmafula is introduced, so its hardly simply to say exactly what the church's intentions were at that point in the game.
Just another rebel plotting rebellion.

Caesus

December 22, 2009, 08:21:26 pm #5 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Caesus
Finally all of the details, which I thought wasn't explained very good, is explained. Thanks a lot, Philsov

LastingDawn

December 22, 2009, 10:42:37 pm #6 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
Haha, well put Philsov, well put, I have nothing more to add to that.
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!

Caesus

December 23, 2009, 12:19:19 am #7 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Caesus
Another question.

Was Algus correct that Ramza was using Delta at first, then delta used Ramza? If Algus was, why / how did Ramza use Delta?

VampragonLord

December 23, 2009, 02:09:01 am #8 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by VampragonLord
to algus, delita was a meat shield, to ramza, delita was a brother in arms. delita "uses" ramza in the sense of " he wants to end  this war, so ill help him end this war that i want ended"
15:05   slave: consensual slavery is the best thing ever~

ffta707

December 28, 2009, 02:00:29 am #9 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by ffta707
Is this why he got banned?? lol.

Samuraiblackbelt

December 28, 2009, 01:42:30 pm #10 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Samuraiblackbelt
what makes you think this is why he got banned?
<JoZ> I'm not Wiz. Even if I were, I wouldn't be narcissistic enough to go under an alt and comment on my own team.

PGF: "You are ignoring this user. Click to see their post."

ffta707

December 28, 2009, 05:10:25 pm #11 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by ffta707
I don't know.

Kagebunji

December 28, 2009, 08:46:16 pm #12 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Kagebunji
Yeah I would like to know why he got banned too, and while we are at it, why WinterIce got banned as well?
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown

Samuraiblackbelt

December 28, 2009, 08:57:22 pm #13 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Samuraiblackbelt
http://ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3139

WinterICE was banned because he was a Mental_Gear alt, but Zodiac hasn't put that in there yet
<JoZ> I'm not Wiz. Even if I were, I wouldn't be narcissistic enough to go under an alt and comment on my own team.

PGF: "You are ignoring this user. Click to see their post."