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A Character a Week Keeps the Lucavi Meek! Gretchen Lethro!

Started by Eternal248, July 23, 2009, 10:59:25 pm

SilvasRuin

September 02, 2009, 02:11:01 pm #80 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by SilvasRuin
QuoteHaha! They are in Mercenaries yes, but Aeris is a deceitful "Flower Girl" who enjoys killing people with various poisons and Cloud is her estranged boyfriend who is just as insane as she is.
Wow, you really do hate FFVII.

Hrm...  Beowulf doesn't have a mangled name unless it is his last name, and I don't recall the last name of the original Beowulf of legend.

Cúchulainn's name is butchered in the original translation of FFT, and he was a hero with very humble beginnings in the original legend.  I do recall hearing he spewed some sort of poison cloud when in one of his berserker rages, so the poison tie-in would be plain enough to see.  Oh, and the name is further mangled in that Cúchulainn isn't his name to begin with and everyone knows him by his nickname.  Then again, that would rule out "birthgiven" wouldn't it?

Archael

September 02, 2009, 02:19:03 pm #81 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Archael
I like Queklain because it is a name unique to FFT, where Cúchulainn already has origins elsewhere

the "mis-translated" names in original FFT gave us some very awesome, unique names, names we haven't heard before in previous games, and the PSP WOTL re-translation ruined alot of them because of this

Ramza, Delita, Zalera, Velius, Queklain, Izlude, Vormav (badass sounding), Rofel, are VERY original names found nowhere else in any video game, movie, or book

but then you get a name like Cúchulainn or Belias and it's not unique to FFT at all, and is rather un-original

this is one of the reasons I think the FFT script is better than WOTL's

Skip Sandwich

September 02, 2009, 02:25:13 pm #82 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Skip Sandwich
well, Biggs and Wedge appear as bit characters in many of the FF games, the "legend in thier own right/from humble beginings/They have seen their share of battle" could be reffering to this reappearing role. They already appear in FFT, in "birthgiven name mangled" form, as Viggs and Wezalef, both of which are defeated in the opening battle, in the original story, they simply die there, if they don't in mercinaries, and return again, then they have certianly "changed role". "personae, unfamilliar, forign even", means that they will be written as pretty much original characters, making it even harder to draw the connection between Viggs and Wezalef to Biggs and Wedge, but the "to one of carful observance/they are seen plain as day" hints that there will be sublte alusions to thier other characterizations, that the canny observer could pick up on.
"Dave?  Are you there?"
"Yeah.  I can't get you through the cell now."
"You have to talk through the bratwurst from now on. I'm sorry. I didn't know it would do that."
http://www.johndiesattheend.com

SilvasRuin

September 02, 2009, 02:38:18 pm #83 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by SilvasRuin
It's fine to have original sounding names, but when something is clearly a mistranslation, it's not the same.  Cúchulainn and Belias are VERY obvious mistranslations.  The others were perhaps mistranslated the second time around, or which translation really didn't matter as far as one being "correct" and they could have stayed the same.  Sure, argue in favor of those, but I can't agree with the obvious mistranslations.

Then again, I suppose Belias might be of the latter case sense I don't see how an L would be turned into an S.  Both Belias and Velias might be mistranslations, or Velias was never meant to reference Belial.  Perhaps I'll concede on his name, considering the difference between all three names.  I am still quite convinced that it should be Cúchulainn though, as phonetically the names are identical or close to it.

LastingDawn

September 02, 2009, 02:39:53 pm #84 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
Quote from: "Skip Sandwich"well, Biggs and Wedge appear as bit characters in many of the FF games, the "legend in thier own right/from humble beginings/They have seen their share of battle" could be reffering to this reappearing role. They already appear in FFT, in "birthgiven name mangled" form, as Viggs and Wezalef, both of which are defeated in the opening battle, in the original story, they simply die there, if they don't in mercinaries, and return again, then they have certianly "changed role". "personae, unfamilliar, forign even", means that they will be written as pretty much original characters, making it even harder to draw the connection between Viggs and Wezalef to Biggs and Wedge, but the "to one of carful observance/they are seen plain as day" hints that there will be sublte alusions to thier other characterizations, that the canny observer could pick up on.

Fantastic analysis! You are 100% correct. Biggs and Wedge are going to be main cast characters! Though not in the Vicks and Wezaleff way...

Allow me to fully explain each line...

Quote"Legends in their own right,
from humble beginnings,
they have seen their share of battle.

This was more in reference to FFVI where they show up as two guards escorting Terra to the Esper. Though it can also be an allusion to the beginning of FFT.

QuoteThey each fell in the same place,
Their origins paint their fate, swift.

In both FFVI (and FFVII I believe?) and FFT, Biggs and Wedge both die near the starts of their respective games, this is what is meant by "Thier origins paint their fate, swift" they aren't around for long, hehe.

QuoteTheir birthgiven names mangled,
Now their roles have changed.

Vicks, Wezaleff, are two mistranslations of their names, indeed. This what I had meant by their "birthgiven names" the reference was horrible askewed because of these mistranslations.

QuotePersonae unfamiliar, foreign even.
Though to one of careful observance,
They are seen plain as day."

This one is the most cryptic, but what it means is that they are to become characters that Are in FFT, but were not important in the least, this will expand those characters roles. But until I have the accompanying picture (which should be sometime this week...) I won't be revealing exactly who they are. Great work everyone and thank you for participating! I will have that unique battle scenario sent to you in a weeks time Skip Sandwich.


Also feel free to surmise who those characters are, Hint: It's not the boys at Orbonne Monastery.
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!

SilvasRuin

September 02, 2009, 02:43:40 pm #85 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by SilvasRuin
QuoteIn both FFVI (and FFVII I believe?) and FFT, Biggs and Wedge both die near the starts of their respective games, this is what is meant by "Thier origins paint their fate, swift" they aren't around for long, hehe.
Yes, in FFVII, they are two of I think three "generic" members of the terrorist group Avalanche, and they are killed just before the final sequences in Midgar begin before the party finally leaves town and starts exploring the world.  Did they die in FFVIII?

Eternal

September 02, 2009, 02:45:27 pm #86 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Eternal248
SPOILERS






Also, they die in IV: The After Years, don't they?
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
"You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
  • Discord username: eternal248#1817

LastingDawn

September 02, 2009, 02:50:16 pm #87 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
SPOILERS





That they do, it's actually rather sad in that game though...
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!

SilvasRuin

September 02, 2009, 02:56:17 pm #88 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by SilvasRuin
ALSO SPOILERS, A LOT





Just looked it up.  They live through IV, but die very early in The After Years.  They die very early in VI and fairly early in VII.  They are recurring fights in VIII and never do die.  They are Blitzball players in X and X-2.  They are two incompetent guards in XII, and there's only one chance to see them.  They make an appearance in Chocobo's Mysterious Dungeon 2.  They are shopkeepers in Kingdom Hearts 2.  That is a lot of appearances.

Archael

September 02, 2009, 03:27:11 pm #89 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Archael
Quote from: "SilvasRuin"It's fine to have original sounding names, but when something is clearly a mistranslation, it's not the same.  Cúchulainn and Belias are VERY obvious mistranslations.  

and Queklain and Velius are original names, Cuchi cuchu and Belias are not

Belial / Belias is like ultra ripped off generic insert evil demon here name

QuoteThe others were perhaps mistranslated the second time around, or which translation really didn't matter as far as one being "correct" and they could have stayed the same.  Sure, argue in favor of those, but I can't agree with the obvious mistranslations.

which things were mistranslated in WOTL? (Again?)


QuoteThen again, I suppose Belias might be of the latter case sense I don't see how an L would be turned into an S.  Both Belias and Velias might be mistranslations, or Velias was never meant to reference Belial.  Perhaps I'll concede on his name, considering the difference between all three names.  I am still quite convinced that it should be Cúchulainn though, as phonetically the names are identical or close to it.

it is supposed to be Cúchulainn, no one is arguing otherwise

I am saying that Queklain is an original name and Cúchulainn isn't, like an accidental benefit to the first mistranslation

Skip Sandwich

September 02, 2009, 04:51:48 pm #90 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Skip Sandwich
A winner is me!
"Dave?  Are you there?"
"Yeah.  I can't get you through the cell now."
"You have to talk through the bratwurst from now on. I'm sorry. I didn't know it would do that."
http://www.johndiesattheend.com

mav

September 02, 2009, 04:57:04 pm #91 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by mav
Way to go Skip. You're the master of analysis!

By the way, I had absolutely no idea that Wezaleff was Wedge mistranslated. That's just wacky.

MiKeMiTchi

September 02, 2009, 05:46:20 pm #92 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by MiKeMiTchi
Failure for me.

oh well.. I guess I wasn't meant to get that scenario. :)
Jot5 GFX Designer :: Spriter :: Mitchi

Vanya

September 02, 2009, 06:12:59 pm #93 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Vanya
Quote from: "mav"Way to go Skip. You're the master of analysis!

By the way, I had absolutely no idea that Wezaleff was Wedge mistranslated. That's just wacky.

That was one of the first ones I realized was wrong when I started looking at the Japanese versions. There are a lot of name translations I don't really agree with.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
¯\(°_0)/¯

Archael

September 03, 2009, 01:46:46 pm #94 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Archael

LastingDawn

September 03, 2009, 02:07:01 pm #95 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
This isn't the thread for this, Eternal imitates the WoTL style (which many will agree is very Shakespearean in it's execution) and thus I have no problem with it. Besides your complaint before this was the mistaken translations of the names making "unique" name. Unique or not, they were still translation errors. Also the fellow who translated WoTL was the Same Fellow who translated Vagrant Story and FFXII, you even said that there were a few parts of VS that sounded like WoTL.
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!

Eternal

September 03, 2009, 05:17:35 pm #96 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Eternal248
Although I am trying to imitate the WotL style, it'll be slightly more... comprehensible for those who aren't necessarily fond of the WotL style. Thus, it'll be in that style but not to the extent that it was in WotL... if that makes any sense. For an example of this, compare the Aftermath video to some of the cutscenes in WotL.

BTW, if anyone has any issues with the script they see in any of the videos, feel free to PM me. I don't bite... much. =P
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
"You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
  • Discord username: eternal248#1817

MiKeMiTchi

September 03, 2009, 06:20:57 pm #97 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by MiKeMiTchi
QuoteBTW, if anyone has any issues with the script they see in any of the videos, feel free to PM me. I don't bite... much. =P

Sure thing. Let's see the literariness from the script.
Jot5 GFX Designer :: Spriter :: Mitchi

Vanya

September 03, 2009, 09:41:51 pm #98 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Vanya
Quote from: "Eternal248"I don't bite... much. =P

Says the dude with the giant-fanged avatar! ^_^

But seriously, that sounds like a good idea for a writing style.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
¯\(°_0)/¯

mav

September 03, 2009, 09:49:37 pm #99 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by mav
Mercenaries has a very well-written script. As easy to understand as Vanilla's and more colloquially eloquent than WotL's. WotL was very flowery and it occasionally came off as alienating and trite; Mercenaries manages to come off as polished without appearing cliché.