What I've been trying to say all along

[DarthPaul]

now I'm going to beat the dead horse (((XTIAN RAGE{!!!}}

one of the doctors who was plotting bombing attacks in the UK was a qualified neurosurgeon

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... years.html

so you're going to tell me the problem is education, government, the internet? and not religion?

you can be a very intelligent, well educated individual and still believe in 72 virgins and paradise after death, and act based upon this belief for horrible results

this mode of thought (religion) thrives in an shell of protection - the taboo that is criticizing people's religious beliefs, that is why it's still present in modern day society


haaa haa

Most religions (not all) have a belief in non violence and their gods say not to kill other people for any reason. (Yet we still have executions...WTF?)

Anyway there are free radicals everywhere. The al Queda terrorists are one such group of radicals.

I'm not saying your wrong Voldemort, you not, but the #1 problem with any religion nay any social structure is leaving things up to interpretation.

Al Queda believes that we are infidels because of a prophecy in their religion (*I have a qualm about this I shall mention at the end.) says that the infedels will rise up from nowhere and cause global terror and unrest. They feel that we (the U.S.A to clarify) are those foretold and that we need to be purged.

This kind of interpretation happens everywhere from a local Sunday school all the way to the Supreme Court. People will take action for their beliefs thinking that their beliefs give them the right to so. It's all bullshit really.

*I mentioned a prophecy in the Quran. Well I have read Several translations and even an exact translation of this prophecy. I say this knowing that it is an interpretation in and of itself but here me out. It speaks of a group of people (not a country) that causes death and destruction reasons they believe to be just.
 
There has only been two groups of people in the last hundred years who perfectly fit the description.  

1) Adolf Hitler's Nazi Party (If they are the infidels than al Queda is about 50-60 yeras too late.)

2) Osama Bin Laden's al Queda themselves. (That one is a doozy I know but they fit the qualifications perfectly.)

[Kaijyuu]

so what'd I miss in my couple day absence

[Captain Obvious]

Religion is the damnation of society.

[Captain Obvious]

Damn... Why can't I raise my posts like a fucking jerk?

[Zenko]

Because you're only posting in spam. And if you continue like that you'll get  
Spam isn't the main focus of FFH dammit.

[Mental_Gear]

Also C.O., please learn to explain your argument.

As I'm sure you've heard many times in school: More effort required. Though I wouldn't expect much from somebody named after an uncyclopedia in-joke.

[Quo]

I read ALL EIGHT PAGES and signed up just to reply to this post...

(And never once thought that maybe I could've posted as guest...? -.- It's 4AM, shut up...)

But hopefully (doubtfully) I have something that will support Arch's argument, but go a little smoother with the dissenters... (probably not...)

Removing religion from the world may not make the world a better place... but we DO know that religion BEING in the world HAS made it a hellish place in the past... A LOT...

So why not just get rid of it anyway and try something new? We know that what we have now doesn't work... let's try something else. If that doesn't work, we'll try something else again...

It's called striving for the ever-unreachable perfection. Not doing so would be sloth, which is one of the seven deadly sins...

[Archael]

Removing religion from the world may not make the world a better place... but we DO know that religion BEING in the world HAS made it a hellish place in the past... A LOT...

yeah but some people in this thread were actually arguing that because removing religion from the world *may not* significantly make it a better place (via other shitty systems replacing it), that it's OK for it to stay

... that's like saying we don't need to combat terrorism because some other, more extreme group *MIGHT* take it's place. sure let's leave them alone! after all, something WORSE could be there, right? yeah let's leave em alone. dumbest argument ever

they completely ignore the negative effects of a religious world as we see them today (clinging to the rope of "well how do you know something else wouldn't be worse, arch!?!?"), like I said here:

I understand

but your counterpoints aren't making excuses for the evil caused by religion, not defending religion, and not giving excuses as to why we shouldn't get rid of religion. it's almost as if you consider it to be immune to ideological scrutiny, when it is anything but

or they try to substitute religion in my argument for another, secular system



and the only thing that will do is keep forcing me clarify my stance over and over

religion is pretty damn difficult to defend nowadays, and there's a good reason for that too

[boomkick]

What about Buddhism, that's not a "terrorist" religion is it?

[Archael]

What about Buddhism, that's not a "terrorist" religion is it?

no one is saying it is

seriously, sometimes your posts are   and besides the point

[philsov]

... that's like saying we don't need to combat terrorism because some other, more extreme group *MIGHT* take it's place. sure let's leave them alone! after all, something WORSE could be there, right? yeah let's leave em alone. dumbest argument ever

Horrible analogy.  I'll ask this again because you missed it last time.

Can you name two or three bad events in the past 100 or so years that came specifically from religion?

I'll tell you right now 9/11 and the isreali/palestine conflict is about as religious as the american settlers vs. the cherokees.

[Archael]

... that's like saying we don't need to combat terrorism because some other, more extreme group *MIGHT* take it's place. sure let's leave them alone! after all, something WORSE could be there, right? yeah let's leave em alone. dumbest argument ever

Horrible analogy.  I'll ask this again because you missed it last time.

Can you name two or three bad events in the past 100 or so years that came specifically from religion?

I'll tell you right now 9/11 and the isreali/palestine conflict is about as religious as the american settlers vs. the cherokees.

The willingness of a group of people to completely ignore their survival instinct to fly planes into buildings because of their religious beliefs ISN'T religious?

9/11 is probably the only example I'd ever need to throw at you ( even if it's far from the only one in the last 100 years) and it is VERY religious

[philsov]

The willingness of a group of people to completely ignore their survival instinct to fly planes into buildings are trained soldiers.  WWII, ring a bell?

And what evidence do you have that they did it for religious reasons in the first place?  Remember the message that followed?  Get out of Israel.  It's bleed-over from the creation of Israel and forced removal of people from their homes from 60 years ago.  

Still wanting some examples.

[Asmo X]

Heaven's Gate mass suicide.

[Archael]

The willingness of a group of people to completely ignore their survival instinct to fly planes into buildings are trained soldiers. WWII, ring a bell?

Trained soldiers with religious beliefs

And what evidence do you have that they did it for religious reasons in the first place? Remember the message that followed? Get out of Israel. It's bleed-over from the creation of Israel and forced removal of people from their homes from 60 years ago.

Because these people believe that everything that is not fundamentalist islam is an affront to their religion and their way of life, hence the "get out of israel"

Still wanting some examples.

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009 ... _state.php

^    "The day his son died, Greg Swezey told sheriff's investigators he knew Zakk would die 10 or 15 minutes before the teenager passed away. His condition had gotten much worse about an hour and a half before Zakk died, he told the investigators, and he realized Zakk was exhibiting some of the symptoms of death he'd seen when older church members died.

    He did not consider calling an ambulance, he told them.

Who did he call instead? Elders of his church, who showed up to splash oil on the poor kid and pray."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/3 ... 09504.html




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpy_Z4Au ... re=channel (theists pushing for Creationism to replace evolution with Creation Science in Kansas Schools)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIJ2Rn7-e1I

[philsov]

There we go.  

Now, what are you suggesting we do to remove religion in all forms?

[Archael]

Now, what are you suggesting we do to remove religion in all forms?

through education (based on evidence and the sciences, not superstitions), replace it with something akin to this:

Secular humanism describes a world view with the following elements and principles:

* Need to test beliefs - A conviction that dogmas, ideologies and traditions, whether religious, political or social, must be weighed and tested by each individual and not simply accepted on faith.
* Reason, evidence, scientific method - A commitment to the use of critical reason, factual evidence and scientific methods of inquiry, rather than faith and mysticism, in seeking solutions to human problems and answers to important human questions.
* Fulfillment, growth, creativity - A primary concern with fulfillment, growth and creativity for both the individual and humankind in general.
* Search for truth - A constant search for objective truth, with the understanding that new knowledge and experience constantly alter our imperfect perception of it.
* This life - A concern for this life and a commitment to making it meaningful through better understanding of ourselves, our history, our intellectual and artistic achievements, and the outlooks of those who differ from us.
* Ethics - A search for viable individual, social and political principles of ethical conduct, judging them on their ability to enhance human well-being and individual responsibility.
* Building a better world - A conviction that with reason, an open exchange of ideas, good will, and tolerance, progress can be made in building a better world for ourselves and our children.

^ a world view such as this gives us so much more to aspire to (the common 'purpose' that so many think they wouldn't have without religion) and not the divisive, punishing, and anti humanistic principles of the big 3

just watch the video in the OP again... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60gCWl9_TOs

what's wrong with a false belief?  

[philsov]

by itself absolutely nothing.

What matters are the actions taken.  

I agree with the video, just not your angstheism.

[Archael]

by itself absolutely nothing.

What matters are the actions taken.  

correct

I agree with the video, just not your angstheism.

why? all I have ever said in this topic is that religion and religious belief can be harmful to society (like the examples I presented above), and that we would be better off without it

that is also what the video says

if you agree with the video, you agree with me (I'm the one who posted the video in the OP, remember? the title of this topic says "THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO SAY ALL ALONG!"), meaning, I'm 100% in agreement with the video

 don't worry, agreeing with me won't kill you

[Piercewise]

A question for Arch, if I may:

through education (based on evidence and the sciences, not superstitions), replace it with something akin to this:

Could you be more specific? What means of education would you encourage, particularly on those who are slow to accept secular humanism?