Hey some help on skillsets with fftpatcher

[Oddeye666]

I have some questions about skillsets related to the Dragoon, Geomancer, Samurai, Onion Knight and Chemist.

First off with the Dragoon if I just changed its action menu to default could I replace all of its skills with whatever other skills I wanted to without any issue? Could I do the same thing with the Samurai?

Is there anyway I can edit the Geomancer skillset every attempt I have made has failed.

Is there anyway I can give the Onion Knight skills at all?

Finally in my hack I think I would like to have ALL classes Item could I just give all the classes Item as an innate skill?

Thanks in advance.

[SilvasRuin]

I've been meaning to experiment or clarify just what can be done with Dragoon and Archer for a while now, but I have never gotten around to it.  I don't know about Dragoon.

I think Samurai and Chemist are doable, but I've not even considered changing their ties to items.  (Not that it didn't cross my mind, I just didn't want to.)

Geomancer and Onion Knight are no-gos.  Geomancer's skillset has to be on Geomancer to work from what I've heard, and the ties to terrain cannot be removed.  Onion Knight and Mime are even more locked down.  The only thing that can be done with them is innate abilities, job requirements, and stat multipliers and growths (and what Onion Knight can equip).

I'm pretty sure Item can be made an innate of everyone through an ASM hack, but I'm not sure what options there are for the PSP version.

[Oddeye666]

Oh I know Archer can work I've done that myself.  So I would assume that Samurai and Dragoon would work.  I don't think the Chemist would be in any trouble either, however I wasn't sure if it would work like the Geomancer.  

That sucks with the Onion Knight and Geomancer, but I figured it would be like that.  Anyway thanks for the help.

PS: On the PSP I have the same options as the PSX.

[Vanya]

Samurai, Chemist, Dragoon, & Geomancer are Bugged for generic units.
Fixes are in the works, but likely to arrive very soon.
For now there are only 2 solutions.
1) Don't change those skill sets.
2) Don't have recruitable generics.

[SilvasRuin]

While we're on the subject, I may as well ask.  Do you mean to say that Chemist's ability set can't be moved over to another Job and still function?  Like, hypothetically speaking, I can't give the ability set to Dancer to make Chemists female only?  Or give the ability set to Squire to combine the two into one default starting Job?

[Oddeye666]

That sucks so there's nothing I can do to give a Dragoon some unique abilities or give a Samurai something else?  Thats sucks.

[SilvasRuin]

It's hardly crippling for Draw out to be tied to items.  The abilities should still be rather customizable.  Think of them as more flexible chemists in how you can design them.  Their limitation is a lot easier to work around than Geomancer's.

[Oddeye666]

Well its just that I wanted to create a comprehensive job rehaul of all the jobs in the game.  I also wanted to give every job class items innate which would mean I would have make a new skillset for the Chemist.  

However, now I either have to leave the Dragoon, Ninja, and Samurai as is or take them out all together.

So just to clarify if I wanted to give the Samurai the Rune Knight skillset I can't, or if I wanted to change the Dragoon's job class to a dragoner like Reis I can't do that?

[Vanya]

There is a small work around for samurai. There is data in one of the ASM threads for the 0% chance that the swords will break. You can turn them all to 0% if you want the Samurai skills to be normal or turn them all up to 10% if you want a more flexible chemist.

[Redux]

You could also try giving the lancer a different skillset and fix that. I gave them Dragon from Reis, changed the abilities, made a jump-esque ability (using crush from worker and BAM, Dragoon with abilities.

[Mental_Gear]

Damn, so we can't mod the samurai, geomancer, chemist, dragoon and archer jobs as easily as the other generics?

[Oddeye666]

Well I know Archer works just by changing their action menu to "default" and then just giving it whatever skills you please.

Can you explain exactly step-by-step what you mean to do with the Samurai, and how that relates to the Chemist.  Because what I wanted to do was give the item skillset to every job class innate, and give the Chemist something different.

Also what were you saying about changing the Dragoon?  Please be thorough so I can understand.

Because everytime I try to give a class a different skillset it ends up knowing all of the skils of that class, or only knowing th corresponding skills in the Squire job class.

Thanks again.

[SilvasRuin]

The Samurai skills are tied to very specific items, like Chemist is.  Chemist expends one item to cause an effect specified by the item, the default being healing mp, hp, or a status effect.  Draw Out uses an item but has a chance to not expend it.  It's abilities are like the rest of the Jobs' various abilities in its stats and set up.  You can change the Draw Out abilities however you want, I believe.  The limitation is just that they have to use an item in your inventory.  You can even change the stats and such of those items, but you can't break their ties to the abilities.  I compared the Samurai to more flexible Chemists because both have to use items for their abilities, and Draw Out is easier to manipulate into what you might want.

ASM hacks only work for the PSX version, as far as I can tell.  There may be some exceptions, but I doubt there are very many.  It takes an ASM hack to alter the chance of breaking for the Draw Out abilities.

I'm not sure which it is, but one or the other causes the job to have all the abilities learned.  It's either moving an ability set to another job or putting an ability set from a unique job on to a generic job.  The former is far more limiting and would mean you are stuck with some jobs that are either very much like their vanilla versions or just not using them and having fewer available jobs than vanilla.  The best thing to do is find some creative workaround.

For example, one of the ideas I've had for Samurai is changing them into a Summoner and making it so that you have to defeat the summons in battle before the Summoner can use them.  Basically the idea is to have monsters designed to mimic the summons, and then making the battles award the player whatever you turned one of the Katanas into.  The ability corresponding to that Katana is then changed to use the appropriate stats and animation for that summon.  That's currently the idea I favor for Samurai.

[Oddeye666]

Interesting well then my problem with the Samurai is resolved, Chemist is gonna be a No-Go.  Go into more detail though with replacing the skillset, like maybe I could do what Redux said to do, but if I do that kind of work around then I want it to work properly without any sort of hiccup.  So basically can I make it work like a normal skillset works OR if that's not possible can I make it so all of the skills in that job class are always learned?

Plus thinking about some of the Zodiac monsters in the game have unique skillsets... So let's say I took one of the secondaries filled it with whatever crap I so please and then slapped it on the Dragoon class would it work normal?

[Mental_Gear]

Can ASM hacks stack with each other and / or FFTPatcher / Tactext mods?

[SilvasRuin]

I'm afraid I don't know the answers to those, Oddeye666.

I'm rather sure the ASM hacks can stack, though some of the hacks look like they would interfere with each other.  Don't just try and implement all of them, just the specific ones you want to use.

[Mental_Gear]

yeah, I know very little about ASM at the moment though.

[Vanya]

You could also try giving the lancer a different skillset and fix that. I gave them Dragon from Reis, changed the abilities, made a jump-esque ability (using crush from worker and BAM, Dragoon with abilities.

You tested this with a generic unit?

Because what I wanted to do was give the item skillset to every job class innate, and give the Chemist something different.

There is an ASM hack that does that. Look at the topic marked "Razele's ASM Hacks" in the general FFT hacking forum.

It takes an ASM hack to alter the chance of breaking for the Draw Out abilities.

Actually, no. The Draw Out chances are just a hex edit, not and ASM hack.

Plus thinking about some of the Zodiac monsters in the game have unique skillsets... So let's say I took one of the secondaries filled it with whatever crap I so please and then slapped it on the Dragoon class would it work normal?

No. The glitches happen when you change Chemists', Dragoons', Geomancers', Samurais', or Ninjas' skillsets to anything other than their original vanilla skillset. There is also a second glitch where if you change these jobs' menu types to normal the skills will no longer function even if you give them new ones. And remember, the skill set glitch occurs for generic units only.

Can ASM hacks stack with each other and / or FFTPatcher / Tactext mods?

Yes, they can. And, yes some of them have conflicting effects.

yeah, I know very little about ASM at the moment though.

You don't need to know anything about ASM to use them. All you need to know is how to open your ISO in a Hex editor and change numbers at specified addresses.

[Mental_Gear]

wait, so Hex and ASM are the same thing?

[Vanya]

No. ASM is a programming/compiling language. Hex (aka hexadecimal) is a numbering system used to represent data.

Thus an ASM hack is a modification to the game's code while a Hex edit is simply a modification to values within that code.