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Monk Rehaul Job Discussion (Rad/Ramza Skillset Updated!)

Started by LastingDawn, December 08, 2008, 07:36:29 pm

PX_Timefordeath

December 23, 2008, 09:57:27 pm #40 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by PX_Timefordeath
Damn guys if you want claws look at FFIX FFS!!!! I POSTED PLENTY OF THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STRAIGHT OUT OF THE DAMN STRATEGY GUIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LastingDawn

December 23, 2008, 10:03:03 pm #41 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
Well, FF9's claws didn't really... they weren't that attractive to me, I preferred FF4's way of doing it. Which was, the Claws gave no WP, they may have risen Attack, or Mind, they could status, and had Elements on them, so I'm wondering... should I also give monk's Auto Dual Weild, so they can use the Claws, as they were in FF4?
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!

The Damned

December 23, 2008, 11:41:47 pm #42 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by The Damned
Quote from: "LastingDawn"Well, FF9's claws didn't really... they weren't that attractive to me, I preferred FF4's way of doing it. Which was, the Claws gave no WP, they may have risen Attack, or Mind, they could status, and had Elements on them, so I'm wondering... should I also give monk's Auto Dual Weild, so they can use the Claws, as they were in FF4?

If they can use Claws, then yes, I would say that yes they should use Innate Two Swords/Dual Wield.

HOWEVER, I would only say this should happen IF AND ONLY IF there are two concurrent conditions: Monks lose Martial Arts (and it stays "lost", as in it's not even in their skill set) AND no other weapon can be Dual-Wielded.

Even then, Two Swords is almost as troublesome as Martial Arts when it comes to braindead "broken" set-ups. However, having Claws (good job on the animation there) have 0 WP seems like a set in the right direction and part of Two Swords is broken-ness is that it applies to all weapons that can be Two Swords, not just a class or a specific weapon.

That said, I'm going to suggest five obvious Claws--all of them have 0 WP (if that's possible; otherwise 1 WP shouldn't screw with anything too badly):


  • Poison Claws: Capable of adding Poison.
  • Talons: Claws magically-enchanted by the Wind that Strengthen Wind and knockback at 100%. (If the knockback isn't possible for a weapon, just make it, I don't know, cancel Haste or something.)
  • Aqua Rake: Claws magically-enchanted by the Water to Halve Water that gives the user immunity to Slow.
  • Bony Claws: Claws that attempts to spread the curse of Undeath while making their wearer immune to said curse. (Add: Undead; Immune: Undead.)
  • Santa Claws: Claws magically-enchanted by Ice to absorb Fire that attempt to disarm the opponent. (Has a 25% of casting Steal Weapon.)

...It's funny how that last one started out as a joke until I actually thought about it.

P.S. Those are not meant to be in-game descriptions.
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

LastingDawn

December 24, 2008, 01:30:23 am #43 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
Aqua Rake, heh. Nice throw back, Poison Claws... don't really seem to pack the... power to find true, use, though if it's combined with another Claw, Poison and Undead... how does that even work? Santa Claws would of course be a rare item, haha! Love the concept though. Talons... bah, cursed Knockback working on only two skills... Bony Claws, very creative! I like it.

Well... Monks and Abralist will both have Two Swords, but of course there is no "equip Claw" and there won't be such a skill as "equip crossbow".
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!

boomkick

December 24, 2008, 01:56:20 am #44 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by boomkick
Ok, more claw ideas

Dark Whisper (yes i know)- A claw imbuned (wow how do u spell that...) with dark magic.
WP- 0
WEv- 20
Other- Chance to cast Dark Holy (spell/animation).

Queklin's Bile- A claw taken straight out of his impure belly.
WP- 0
WEv- 20
Other- Inflicts Poison or Death Sentence (100%), Always Poison, Cancels Regen.

(the one above is suicidal)

Velius' Wraith- A claw empowered by Velius' thirst for blood and chaos.
WP- 0
WEv- 20
Other- Chance to cast Poison Frog, Always Berserk.

Zalera's Thirst- A claw cursed with the vampiric capabilities of Elmdor and Zalera.
WP- 0
WEv- 20
Other- Chance to cast Blood Suck (lol), Always Undead.

Ascension- A claw representing the rise of the Bloody Angel.
WP- 0
WEv- 20
Other- Chance to Inflict Faith, Initial Reraise

Chaos- A claw representing the plight of the Arch Angel.
WP- 0
WEv- 20
Other- Chance to Cast Death, Always Protect/Shell.

Are we seriously going to do poles?

The Damned

December 24, 2008, 10:02:09 am #45 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by The Damned
I'm glad you liked my ideas, LastingDawn.

Thinking about it a bit more, if Monks get the ability to equip Claws, then they should perhaps lose the ability to equip Gauntlets (as long as their PA is slightly boosted to compensate stat-wise).

It's just a thought I had right now.

Quote from: "LastingDawn"Aqua Rake, heh. Nice throw back.

Well, we needed it in there somewhere considering I think it's been Blue Magic in like every game and yet neither of our Blue Mages has it.

QuotePoison Claws... don't really seem to pack the... power to find true, use, though if it's combined with another Claw, Poison and Undead... how does that even work?

Well, you could always just make Claw a one-handed weapon.

With regards to Poison Claws, however, they were meant to be the weakest Claw, especially since they're the most obvious design-wise.

QuoteSanta Claws would of course be a rare item, haha! Love the concept though.

But of course. You have to love puns (unless you're a recovering-Dominic Deegan fan).

Thank Star Ocean 2 for existing combined with the fact that I suddenly remembered that hilariously absurd "Manga Claus" from last year at work where he had a katana on the cover. (I never bothered to read it, though).

QuoteTalons... bah, cursed Knockback working on only two skills....

I thought as much. Oh well.

QuoteBony Claws, very creative! I like it.

It's funny due to the fact that I was thinking of Wolverine initially, but yet I didn't end up putting Regen in there somewhere.

QuoteWell... Monks and Abralist will both have Two Swords, but of course there is no "equip Claw" and there won't be such a skill as "equip crossbow".

Oh, this seems like a great idea then.

(I don't know how I forgot that Arbalist has Innate Two Swords already when that's their whole schtick.)

Quote from: "boomkick"Are we seriously going to do poles?

Probably not since Poles would still have to changed to PA formula and Claws seem like they're enough for now.
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

PX_Timefordeath

December 24, 2008, 03:36:08 pm #46 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by PX_Timefordeath
Cat Claws: 0 PA Chance to sleep

Amphibious Claws: Chance to frog

Fire/Ice/Lightning Claws: Yeah...

Adremelk's Wrath: 0 WP, 10% Evasion, 100% chance to cast Thunder 3 on hit, Add Stop[FF XII!]

Claws of Destruction: Claws born from the hide of Zodiark, it's power destroys the user and his enemy. 30WP, 0% evasion, PA+ 10, MA+ 10, Always Haste, Always Death Sentence, Cancels Zombie[Super suicide claw]

Since these claws have WEv, you think monks should get weapon guard?

LastingDawn

December 24, 2008, 03:44:21 pm #47 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
Well Weapon Guard is in the base class, of all classes now, it's also free. So it's not too much of a large change. As for the ideas...

Why would Cat Claws put to sleep? That one is a bit... iffy...

Amphibious Claws is a pretty interesting idea, come to think of it. Frog is a rare status in Mercenaries. With Invoker's not having anything as such... So it's a good possibility that idea will survive.

Fire/Ice/Lightning Claws, is exactly half of Yang's Weaponry in FF4, not sure about this though..

Claws of Destruction is too powerful, one very strong spell and that's it.

Claws of Adramelk is impossible to make.
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!

PX_Timefordeath

December 24, 2008, 07:16:29 pm #48 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by PX_Timefordeath
Well in FFTA Catnip caused berserk so change the cat claws to that

The Damned

December 25, 2008, 12:00:46 am #49 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by The Damned
LastingDawn, whenever you get the time to respond to this, I'm curious: Have you also begun deciding on what ideas to use for Monk's Active Abilities?

Quote from: "PX_Timefordeath"Claws of Destruction: Claws born from the hide of Zodiark, it's power destroys the user and his enemy. 30WP, 0% evasion, PA+ 10, MA+ 10, Always Haste, Always Death Sentence, Cancels Zombie[Super suicide claw]

I'm going to echo a "No way."

Considering it's possible that something blocks Dead will still be around, like an Angel Ring or Judo Outfit, this is literally too good. Even without that, unless you were fighting teleporting archers, at least one person dies on the enemy side and you can always ressurect the claw guy.

Also, Reraise.

QuoteSince these claws have WEv, you think monks should get weapon guard?

They'll have to equip it.

Giving people Innate [Insert Reaction here], unless it's through ASM hacking, makes them unable to equip any other Reactions.
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

boomkick

December 26, 2008, 01:22:48 pm #50 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by boomkick
In reality, the claws are usually very quick weapons, usually around 5-15 pounds at the most. So their active abilities should be based off the claws they use (i would believe so).

Examples:

Furious Blows- Basically a repeating fist, except they do stable damage, yet very slighty random damage.

Reflect- No its not that magic version of reflect, it basically gives Monk defense and makes him hard to hit.

Ghost Strike- Basically a wave fist, except it attacks one's mana and restores his own.

Radiant Claw- Slashes a far away opponent for high damage, CT and high mana cost. Holy Explosion animation would do.

Bloody Strike- Low damage, yet it steals life from the opponent.

Spire- Crush Punch animation, strikes an enemy 3 panels away.

Whirlwind- Basically a turn punch, except it has a chance to add Don't Act.

Secret Strike- Basically secret fist, except in now does minor damage.

Forced Recuperation- Heals user for some hp, but adds one of many negative status on the user.

LastingDawn

December 26, 2008, 03:23:28 pm #51 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
Update on the first post! We have quite a few ideas for Monk skills... which do you fellows think is best? Or which ones is our list missing?
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!

boomkick

December 28, 2008, 04:06:17 am #52 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by boomkick

Archael

December 28, 2008, 11:09:31 am #53 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Archael
Boomkick your suggestions kill off any and all creativity it's not even funny

I don't have time to reply to all of those ATM but I'll just say be more open-minded

the balance here won't be the same as in vanilla or 1.3

remember that when calling something overpowered or too good

boomkick

December 28, 2008, 11:39:43 am #54 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by boomkick
Yeah im sometimes really critical, but to clear it up i think most of those ideas were really cool.

Quote from: "Voldemort7"Boomkick your suggestions kill off any and all creativity it's not even funny...

O could you clarify, i dont know if im defining your comment the way you want.

PX_Timefordeath

December 29, 2008, 01:08:58 pm #55 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by PX_Timefordeath
Since claws do NOT increase damage, either the skills do damage or help the claws effects

Rapid strike: Attacks the enemy 2 times, low damage[allows higher percentage on inflicting status]

Grid: Self protect and defend

Chakra: 1 target, 1 range, 0 vert, heals Hp and Mp, near 50% chance to miss

Blades of Fury: The monk spins around, hacking away at anything near the target but the user loses 25% of his health

Fatal Wound: The monk attempts to hit an organ of the target, 0 vert, 5 turn charge, inaccurate, 10% Addle, Don't Move, Don't Act, Death Sentence, Blind

Wind Scar: The monk strikes the wind at such speeds that it slices his target at a range[3 range, single target, wind damage]

LastingDawn

January 03, 2009, 03:17:31 pm #56 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
Somehow missed this post...


Quote from: "PX_Timefordeath"Since claws do NOT increase damage, either the skills do damage or help the claws effects

That sounds... about right.

QuoteRapid strike: Attacks the enemy 2 times, low damage[allows higher percentage on inflicting status]

Only way to do this is to use one of the MA formulas, which I do not plan to do for Monks.

QuoteGrid: Self protect and defend

I like the idea, but add Shell to it, and we have what Brace is, in FF4, this of course will cost HP, since I don't want them to be using HP.

QuoteChakra: 1 target, 1 range, 0 vert, heals Hp and Mp, near 50% chance to miss

I don't like the idea of That Chakra returning in anyway, How about this... casts Berserk, Regen, and recover's 30% HP?

QuoteBlades of Fury: The monk spins around, hacking away at anything near the target but the user loses 25% of his health

Kind of like a Spin Punch with a cost, eh? Too much like Dark Wave though, unless its just 1 range, around the caster.



QuoteFatal Wound: The monk attempts to hit an organ of the target, 0 vert, 5 turn charge, inaccurate, 10% Addle, Don't Move, Don't Act, Death Sentence, Blind

Set percentages for status aren't possible.

QuoteWind Scar: The monk strikes the wind at such speeds that it slices his target at a range[3 range, single target, wind damage]

So it's Wave Fist with the wind element? Hmm... probably not, in this case. I think I have enough info compiled from you fellows to start working on the actual class abilities, thank you very much! I will update the thread once I bring up the draft of the set.
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!

philsov

January 19, 2009, 09:28:22 am #57 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by philsov
Am I reading this right?

0 WP weaponry inherits the [PA * Br/100] when attacking?  If so, awesome.
Just another rebel plotting rebellion.

LastingDawn

January 19, 2009, 06:41:10 pm #58 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
Hmm... I didn't think of this before but it Has to be that way, I'll need to ask a favor of one of the ASM hackers then.
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!

dwib

January 19, 2009, 07:59:16 pm #59 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by dwib
ok first, boomkick, please reply to ideas you actually have something to say to.
Quote from: "boomkick"
QuoteFire/Ice/Lightning Claws: Yeah...
Yeah...
is such a waste.

anyways, thoughts...
i don't like monks having elemental skills.
Exorcise is a very monk-like skill, although it should crystalize alive undead units as well or else its worthless.
Kick is classic Yang monk, which LD seems to lean towards. definitely a good idea for a range skill.

NEW IDEA : Mantra - monk sacrifices himself to fully heal a teammate