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Invoker Job Discussion (Rad/Ramza Skillset Updated!)

Started by Archael, November 16, 2008, 09:26:12 pm

Dormin Jake

December 15, 2008, 09:57:30 pm #60 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Dormin Jake
Quote from: "darthpaul"Thanks <_< >_> I'm i n your space bubble btw.
Whatev.  I'm getting used to that sort of thing.

  :oops:
We are Dormin. Thou art to bring us a tasty beverage.

The Damned

December 16, 2008, 04:53:34 pm #61 Last Edit: January 07, 2009, 09:25:07 pm by The Damned
Quote from: "boomkick"Poison is for balance, but somewhat unfitting for a water element attack.

Poison fits, but why it would fit might be rather esoteric. Just think of poison as the constantly coughing up water (or, rather, trying to before the link happens).

I would actually say that Death Sentence is more fitting, but since I know that Lasting Dawn is currently using Death Sentence for only class (due to how the AI currently reacts to it), Poison will have to do.
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

LastingDawn

January 07, 2009, 06:38:38 pm #62 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
Hmm... well now that this is an actual possibility, I see some glaring miscalculations on my part. The MA * Y values are a bit too low to warrant use at the high levels, visa vi, the same problem Black Magic presented.

Level 5 Invoker will have roughly... 8 MA, 6 + 2 (from Rod) = 8

Now the attack of it's most powerful spell is MA * 6, making their best spell 42 damage at first, that's nothing to scoff at. But as level rises and Rod's MA takes off, their natural MA will probably reach 16, while their most powerful Rod gives them 14 MA. 30 MA in this case, at level 99, their "most powerful skill" will only do 180, of course if we take Elemental Boost into equation that damage would be 225, now 225 for an 8 mp instant of 1 effect area, with 80% chance to hit (not taking ME, into consideration) does that Really sound powerful now to warrant use?

If not we will have to look over all of the MA + and MA * planned for this set, execution is now possible, therefore we should try as hard as we can to keep this class balanced the whole game through.
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!

boomkick

January 07, 2009, 08:13:16 pm #63 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by boomkick
Why not just make a second version of each spell that is much stronger but needs CT. Like Scorch, Statis, and Jolt (or Burn 2, Freeze 2, Shock 2, etc).

LastingDawn

January 07, 2009, 11:04:29 pm #64 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
That was the programmers solution as well, the trouble with that are skills that become invalid over time, which is one thing I do not want to have happen. As it stands CT would completely break the point of the Invoker, it is not the best way to make this plan work.
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!

Dormin Jake

January 08, 2009, 02:56:20 am #65 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Dormin Jake
What about using formula 5F Dmg_[[MA+Y]/2*MA]?  Such quadratic formulas scale much better than linear ones, as MA is always multiplied by itself rather than with a fixed number that can be far surpassed in scale.  One problem with a quadratic formula, however, is that Y value bonuses would have less of an effect later in the game, bringing the "weaker" spells relatively close to the "stronger" ones.

At 8 MA, with Y=0 for Shock and =6 for Burn:
Shock deals 32 damage
Burn deals 56 damage
Burn looks capable of one-shotting, though Shock deals some pretty respectable damage (twice as much as compared to the current MA*2 formula)

At 30 MA, with Y=0 for Shock and =6 for Burn:
Shock deals 450 damage
Burn deals 540 damage
Both are thus capable of some pretty danged decent damage, only Shock also carries a debilitating status ailment with it.

Obviously, stats can be adjusted, though things still might not perfectly match the vision you had for these skills.  But quadratic is the way to go if you want decent scaling.
We are Dormin. Thou art to bring us a tasty beverage.

LastingDawn

January 09, 2009, 03:54:28 pm #66 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
Hmm... I hadn't thought of that, that might be the way to make it work, rest assured though, that the most these are meant to deal is anywhere from 100-350 damage, since they are instant, but I think that formula looks right, but I wonder if Razele will be kind enough to add an MA+X% on this... hmm...
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!

The Damned

January 09, 2009, 04:23:13 pm #67 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by The Damned
Is it not a problem that those formulas aren't faith-based like the other formulas, LastingDawn?
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

LastingDawn

January 09, 2009, 04:40:58 pm #68 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
As much as I would like it to be based on Faith, I wonder if that could actuallly be done, of course if I recall, it is only a single change, I might be wrong though, it probably should be based on faith.
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!

boomkick

February 06, 2009, 12:11:06 pm #69 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by boomkick
Just a question, but do you already have their secret skill?

dwib

February 06, 2009, 09:21:32 pm #70 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by dwib
i believe explosion is the secret skill

LastingDawn

February 07, 2009, 01:40:19 am #71 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
That's not quite it... as of yet I can't think of a special skill for Invoker, feel free to brainstorm though, since my own thoughts really don't work too well.
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!

PX_Timefordeath

February 07, 2009, 01:50:57 am #72 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by PX_Timefordeath
Shadow Flare. 'Nuff said.

LastingDawn

February 07, 2009, 01:53:09 am #73 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
There is a pattern with the Invoker's spells that fits it in  line with Vagrant Story. The spell names and their functions are supposed to be similar to them. If you happen to know of any extremely powerful spells from Vagrant Story, and think up an appropriate FFT effect, feel free.
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!

boomkick

February 07, 2009, 03:35:41 am #74 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by boomkick
Bloody Sin- Grand Cross
Apocalypse- Shock

Archael

February 07, 2009, 12:21:24 pm #75 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Archael
Bloody Sin is a huge non-elemental HP damage AOE spell

Apocalypse is a strong dark elemental HP damage spell

LastingDawn

February 07, 2009, 12:54:40 pm #76 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by LastingDawn
Bloody Sin it is, now what's a fitting effect for such a spell, you fellows think?
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!

Archael

February 07, 2009, 01:36:36 pm #77 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Archael
Bloody Sin is (like many other spells in VS) an attack that attempts to hit many different parts of the target's body, resulting in more than one hit

each hit has it's own chance to hit, and the entire thing hits only one person

not sure how that would translate, but perhaps a 5-hit spell with a very fast animation

of course the ideal would be to have 1 big spell effect call up many different numbers on the same target

but as far as I know, no formula (or method) can do that currently

so you are stuck with having 1 effect fire per hit

Shade

February 07, 2009, 04:03:24 pm #78 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Shade
So it should be a big are spell amd when there is peole inside of it all of them get's five hit's.
Upupupu...

Zetsubou

dwib

February 07, 2009, 06:10:34 pm #79 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by dwib
Use formula 5E with an X value of 4 to get 5 hits based off of MA
it shows the animation 5 times as well

i'm working on finding an animation for this that looks grand while not taking forever