• Welcome to Final Fantasy Hacktics. Please login or sign up.
 
May 28, 2020, 04:27:51 pm

News:

Please use .png instead of .bmp when uploading unfinished sprites to the forum!


Introducing "Proper" — "The Proper Way to play FFT" (v1.10 released 10/28/17!)

Started by johnmyster, August 15, 2017, 02:49:03 am

Angel

I definitely would like to, it's mostly a matter of free time at this point. If I'm not at work, I'm sleeping, pretty much. Hopefully should change in the near future so I can be intimately reminded of what free time is. :v
  • Modding version: PSX
* Angel should quit being a lazy bitch
<@Elric> I agree to that as well

nyanyame nyanyajuu nyanyado no nyarabide nyakunyaku inyanyaku nyanyahan nyanyadai nyannyaku nyarabete nyaganyagame
At the end of the day, are we not all trapped inside lemons?

Lionheart537

Quote from: Angel on August 20, 2017, 01:44:46 pm
Well, and that you've made previously unavoidable attacks avoidable - I'm the queen of missing 90+% hits 12 consecutive times until game over, so those are my only crutch. :p

Hehe you probably shouldn't play the XCOM series then Angel. They're infamous for missing high accuracy attacks.

But to make this post relevant
Quote from: johnmyster on August 20, 2017, 08:00:12 pm
Thief and Lancer have innate concentrate, and most chances to hit are actually very much improved. Late game shields and mantles are also weaker. :p
-johnmyster

I support this. Stacking evasion can be a real problem. I'm not a big fan of handing out combat related innates to player characters; such as concentrate or the defense ups. In my hack I was hoping to give them less useful innates to free up space for better ones. For instance giving Thief innate move-find item. Knight innate defend. Archer innate poach. Etc, etc. Alternatively give them a starting status for battles like invisible on Ninjas, or Slow to balance a very powerful enemy unit (think of Regigigas' slow start from pokemon). Don't mean to patronize just my preference and a friendly suggestion. Besides that I didn't notice it listed, but perhaps include FFM's asm to prevent katanas breaking. http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=5658.msg118891#msg118891

I look forward to playing this when I have time either way! Cheers!
  • Modding version: PSX
It's not much yet but check out my spriting thread!
http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11772.0
Here's a look at my vanilla mod thread, progressing one step at a time!
http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11785.0

johnmyster

Quote from: Angel on August 21, 2017, 01:24:50 am
I definitely would like to, it's mostly a matter of free time at this point. If I'm not at work, I'm sleeping, pretty much. Hopefully should change in the near future so I can be intimately reminded of what free time is. :v


Best of luck to you at that.

Quote from: Lionheart537 on August 21, 2017, 02:08:05 am
Hehe you probably shouldn't play the XCOM series then Angel. They're infamous for missing high accuracy attacks.

But to make this post relevantI support this. Stacking evasion can be a real problem. I'm not a big fan of handing out combat related innates to player characters; such as concentrate or the defense ups. In my hack I was hoping to give them less useful innates to free up space for better ones. For instance giving Thief innate move-find item. Knight innate defend. Archer innate poach. Etc, etc. Alternatively give them a starting status for battles like invisible on Ninjas, or Slow to balance a very powerful enemy unit (think of Regigigas' slow start from pokemon). Don't mean to patronize just my preference and a friendly suggestion. Besides that I didn't notice it listed, but perhaps include FFM's asm to prevent katanas breaking. http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=5658.msg118891#msg118891

I look forward to playing this when I have time either way! Cheers!


Good opinions and suggestions. I'll definitely look into the katana ASM hack as I'm not a huge fan of their breaking mechanic.

Thanks for your interest!
  • Modding version: PSX
FFT Proper v1.10 released 10/28/17!
Proper Rebalances, ramps up difficulty, and adds variety to battles.

Nyzer

QuoteI'll definitely look into the katana ASM hack as I'm not a huge fan of their breaking mechanic.


IIRC, giving them a different formula will also prevent weapons from breaking, at least on WotL.
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
  • Discord username: Nyzer

Bonesy

August 21, 2017, 10:13:53 pm #24 Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 10:59:04 pm by Bonesy
Played up until hitting the world map, probably gonna play more tonight.

Good Things: I like the lowered JP costs and that some of the 0-cost stuff is there.
Bad Things: I had to do the thieves twice because of the fucking bow dude.


If all the stages are as frustrating as the first real one idk if i'm going to have fun especially come Dorter.

EDIT: I did algus intro and it was managable.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
  • Discord username: Bonesy#9386

johnmyster

Quote from: Bonesy on August 21, 2017, 10:13:53 pm
Played up until hitting the world map, probably gonna play more tonight.

Good Things: I like the lowered JP costs and that some of the 0-cost stuff is there.
Bad Things: I had to do the thieves twice because of the fucking bow dude.


If all the stages are as frustrating as the first real one idk if i'm going to have fun especially come Dorter.

EDIT: I did algus intro and it was managable.


Glad to see you've tried it out.

Yeah, Gariland might be toned down a little. The monsters and ranged attacks can give you a hard time, and the player hasn't even reached their formation screen yet. :P
  • Modding version: PSX
FFT Proper v1.10 released 10/28/17!
Proper Rebalances, ramps up difficulty, and adds variety to battles.

Andre Pratama

Unfortunately that you say is true, i enjoy this patch you made a lot of surprises in chapter 4 especially in beowulf event .. and thanks have made this patch
  • Modding version: PSX

johnmyster

Quote from: Andre Pratama on August 22, 2017, 03:10:27 am
Unfortunately that you say is true, i enjoy this patch you made a lot of surprises in chapter 4 especially in beowulf event .. and thanks have made this patch


What is unfortunate?

And wow, you just might be the furthest player in the game yet. :)

Glad to hear you've enjoyed the patch, as I enjoyed making it as well. <3
  • Modding version: PSX
FFT Proper v1.10 released 10/28/17!
Proper Rebalances, ramps up difficulty, and adds variety to battles.

johnmyster

Quote from: nyzer on August 21, 2017, 11:48:16 am
IIRC, giving them a different formula will also prevent weapons from breaking, at least on WotL.


This is confirmed by me not to work for the psx version. Katanas will still break, it just won't show the breaking text.

-------------------------------

Proper v1.01 released!

Changes:
Gariland fight made slightly easier: Crossbow squire is now naked and some enemies should have less brave.

Meteor nerfed: MP Cost 56 >> 60
          CT 6 >> 7
          Damage F(MA*45) >> F(MA*40)

Rafa's Space Storage is now properly set to hit 100% of the time, regardless of Faith -- giving 25% chance per buff (like a reverse Grand Cross).

Text Changes:
Restore MP, Monster Talk, Maintenance, Equip Katana, all the Charge+x's, and Blade Grasp Descriptions Fixed
(note: Not all vanilla text is meant to be fixed in Proper, unless they give false information. Some text is fixed for consistency or easier reading.)

ASMs:
Katana break ASM implemented. Break chance is set to 0, but they will still break, though seemingly less often.
Katana prices raised a bit to reflect this.

Still not sure if it was in v1.00, but Historical Level Down Growth Rates is for sure not in v1.01. It's not the intended way to play Proper, but Level Up/Down if you wish.
  • Modding version: PSX
FFT Proper v1.10 released 10/28/17!
Proper Rebalances, ramps up difficulty, and adds variety to battles.

Lionheart537

 :more: nice response time mate! Staying active definitely draws attention. I'll give this a proper try after I get home from the gym.
  • Modding version: PSX
It's not much yet but check out my spriting thread!
http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11772.0
Here's a look at my vanilla mod thread, progressing one step at a time!
http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11785.0

johnmyster

  • Modding version: PSX
FFT Proper v1.10 released 10/28/17!
Proper Rebalances, ramps up difficulty, and adds variety to battles.

Lionheart537

Just got past Dorter slums earlier today, didn't have too much trouble there. At first I wasn't super sure about the 0 jp idea but after seeing it in practice I heartily approve. I might steal use this for my hack. I also notice that jobs unlock very quickly. Which isn't bad really, especially since jp costs are low enough you still pick up a couple abilities first. Also your Gil rewards and costs are spot on so far. There's only a few nitpicks I have so far. There are a lot of wandering Calculators about, they aren't a big problem just kinda odd seeing them at lv3-ish. Black Gob's turn punch has enlarged aoe, it isn't that strong though but i found it odd. Knights are the best early class, hands-down. They are superbly tanky (which is the point i imagine). Monk's repeating fist usually 1-shots anything I've met so far (besides Knight). Maybe tone it down or edit bare-handed damage; they do seem to be physical glass cannons though so if it's intentional to wreck faces then pump up it's mp cost? Besides that i'd encourage increasing status' Ct so they last longer and/or aren't canceled by dying. That would make managing friend and foe status more worthwhile. Especially glad for 0 jp with Lancer lol. Liking it so far but Monks scare me

EDIT: Oh also the changes to Undead monsters. I personally like the reverse healing and constant reraise and there's hacks to limit the phoenix down abuse on them. But you do you, it still works as you have it.

EDIT: Just finished ch.1 I have to say somehow Charge seems better than vanilla, which would be good in my book. That Algus fight took me awhile to work through, nice work. Mostly those mages and the enemies' next-tier equipment. 5 seems a good limit to Jump's range. Really enjoying it man.
  • Modding version: PSX
It's not much yet but check out my spriting thread!
http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11772.0
Here's a look at my vanilla mod thread, progressing one step at a time!
http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11785.0

johnmyster

Quote from: Lionheart537 on August 25, 2017, 01:31:33 am
Just got past Dorter slums earlier today, didn't have too much trouble there. At first I wasn't super sure about the 0 jp idea but after seeing it in practice I heartily approve. I might steal use this for my hack. I also notice that jobs unlock very quickly. Which isn't bad really, especially since jp costs are low enough you still pick up a couple abilities first. Also your Gil rewards and costs are spot on so far. There's only a few nitpicks I have so far. There are a lot of wandering Calculators about, they aren't a big problem just kinda odd seeing them at lv3-ish. Black Gob's turn punch has enlarged aoe, it isn't that strong though but i found it odd. Knights are the best early class, hands-down. They are superbly tanky (which is the point i imagine). Monk's repeating fist usually 1-shots anything I've met so far (besides Knight). Maybe tone it down or edit bare-handed damage; they do seem to be physical glass cannons though so if it's intentional to wreck faces then pump up it's mp cost? Besides that i'd encourage increasing status' Ct so they last longer and/or aren't canceled by dying. That would make managing friend and foe status more worthwhile. Especially glad for 0 jp with Lancer lol. Liking it so far but Monks scare me

EDIT: Oh also the changes to Undead monsters. I personally like the reverse healing and constant reraise and there's hacks to limit the phoenix down abuse on them. But you do you, it still works as you have it.

EDIT: Just finished ch.1 I have to say somehow Charge seems better than vanilla, which would be good in my book. That Algus fight took me awhile to work through, nice work. Mostly those mages and the enemies' next-tier equipment. 5 seems a good limit to Jump's range. Really enjoying it man.


Glad you like! Feel free to borrow some ideas like the 0 jp you mentioned. :P

There's maybe a couple more battles with calcs than vanilla, rng seems to favor (or disfavor) you. Lenalia Plateau in particular has a multi-calc battle in vanilla. Goblin Punch having range is for balance purposes, if you still don't find it strong then the range buff was definitely needed. It's kind of like Wave Fist.

Knights are strong throughout the game, though even in vanilla they were strong in Chapter 1. Repeating Fist only does 1/9 more damage than vanilla (randomized), though it doesn't miss of course which is big.

Once characters get some more speed, statuses may get more viable as more Active Turns will pass before they wear off. Their length is unchanged from vanilla, for good or bad, though changing some up isn't out of the question. As for undead, I don't care for the randomized auto-revival and inability to have them revived manually. Certainly goes against a Final Fantasy staple not having heals hurt them, but it still feels right.

Charge is indeed much strong than vanilla. Also, remember that after Miluda's second defeat shops unlock additional gear.

Thanks for your input, and I look forward to hearing more!

- johnmyster
  • Modding version: PSX
FFT Proper v1.10 released 10/28/17!
Proper Rebalances, ramps up difficulty, and adds variety to battles.

Andre Pratama

No one unfortunate, sorry i am wrong :)
Lol There's an error in status ??? If the item was stolen or destroyed mainly helmet and armor
For example elmdor somehow becomes critical even though hp is still high
  • Modding version: PSX

Hyraldelita

i will comment this cause i think i'm one of those people who got triggered by the mod name :D

If you don't want to trigger people than give the mods "proper" names ^^

I don't call a patch "best patch ever and your sucks" and than i say "that's not what i meant is just a title" XD

Anyway.. as elric said, i also don't like vanilla mod... that's is the real reason why i will not try the mod.

But i do have something positive to say about it, you sure put a lot of effort , even if you didn't have to change sprites, events etc.. i tried and i failed, so i will give you credit for that :)

Lionheart537

Made good progress into Ch.2, just got Agrias. So update on my thoughts. I notice it's more of a damage race, like in the vanilla. One question I have is are enemies preset with level and equipment or did you set them to scale with the party? I ask because for awhile now every enemy has been 5-7 levels higher than mine. At the execution grounds the enemy average is 21 and my party's is 16 (excluding Agrias who comes in as 22). Static enemy levels encourage grinding to make them easier, but with very low jp costs grinding seems less necessary or appealing. Wondering if I should grind to catch up or if that will only raise difficulty as the ai scale with and get better gear.
  • Modding version: PSX
It's not much yet but check out my spriting thread!
http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11772.0
Here's a look at my vanilla mod thread, progressing one step at a time!
http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11785.0

johnmyster

Quote from: Andre Pratama on August 25, 2017, 03:04:14 pm
No one unfortunate, sorry i am wrong :)
Lol There's an error in status ??? If the item was stolen or destroyed mainly helmet and armor
For example elmdor somehow becomes critical even though hp is still high


Not sure how to fix that if it is indeed a bug, but thanks for letting me know.

Quote from: Hyraldelita on August 29, 2017, 10:12:10 am
I don't call a patch "best patch ever and your sucks" and than i say "that's not what i meant is just a title" XD

But i do have something positive to say about it, you sure put a lot of effort , even if you didn't have to change sprites, events etc.. i tried and i failed, so i will give you credit for that :)


I never meant to criticize other patches -- in fact, many small aspects of Proper are inspired by other patches, as I note in my main post. Tone is sometimes hard to convey over the internet. Anyways, enough about that...

Thanks for the bit of positivity as well. :)

Quote from: Lionheart537 on August 29, 2017, 08:31:29 pm
Made good progress into Ch.2, just got Agrias. So update on my thoughts. I notice it's more of a damage race, like in the vanilla. One question I have is are enemies preset with level and equipment or did you set them to scale with the party? I ask because for awhile now every enemy has been 5-7 levels higher than mine. At the execution grounds the enemy average is 21 and my party's is 16 (excluding Agrias who comes in as 22). Static enemy levels encourage grinding to make them easier, but with very low jp costs grinding seems less necessary or appealing. Wondering if I should grind to catch up or if that will only raise difficulty as the ai scale with and get better gear.


For story battles, the vast majority of AI are at a fixed level. Exceptions may include those that also scaled with the party in vanilla -- monsters and quasi-undead class variations. In addition, maybe one or two extra enemies throughout all of the story battles are set to scale with the party.

I'll also quote part of my main post,
"To promote a sense of progress and player control over the game, I let most enemies in story battles remain at a fixed level. This level, however, is usually higher and the gap between vanilla and Proper enemy levels increases as the game goes on. Chapter 1 story battle generics top out at around level 10. Chapter 2, 23. Chapter 3, 44. Chapter 4, 88 (67 before the final Orbonne battles). For an optimum experience, I recommend playing through the story battles until you get a bit stuck before grinding for a couple levels / 250 JP or whatever and then trying again. Of course, you can play however you like."


For Golgorand, I would at least level to 16-18 for the first speed point if you're having trouble. In general, "catching up" to the enemy's level isn't really needed to beat most of the game, though it can help. In Chapter 3 your opponents' levels, equipment, and ability combos really start to ramp up, but by that time you should have a strong team composition that is able to adapt to different situations.

Even if you're 5+ levels behind the AI in Chapter 3, once you've discovered some strong setups the game's difficulty curve shouldn't ramp up too fast, and may even get easier at times. The sweet spot that Proper aims for is 3-4 tries for a battle, leaning towards less attempts needed to not overly frustrate the player. Of course, experiences will vary widely depending on your strategy and tactics.

You'll get more experience against foes who are a higher level than you as well. Due to the linear growth of stats and the importance of equipment, individual level-ups start to matter less as the game goes on -- especially for humans.


May the RNG be with you,

- johnmyster
  • Modding version: PSX
FFT Proper v1.10 released 10/28/17!
Proper Rebalances, ramps up difficulty, and adds variety to battles.

wuwuwu

  FFT Proper v1.01 has Speed Save and non-charge and Accumulate! They are Too strong!
  • Modding version: PSX

Lionheart537

Well speed save costs a ton of jp to learn. Accumulate has a mp cost and charge time now. And I noticed half charge but most spells cast faster now so it isn't as strong anymore. But I guess if John wanted he could tack on the pa/ma/sp min/max hack to limit their abuse. Not that I find myself able to abuse them or Yell with the charge time and mp costs.

EDIT: unless by noncharge you are referring to Calculators math skills. To which I can say I'm pretty sure less spells can be cast via mathematics, only weaker ones. I will say that enemy mages keep nuking me with Fire 4 and reflect doesn't stop it but *shrugs* what can you do. Not a big issue imo
  • Modding version: PSX
It's not much yet but check out my spriting thread!
http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11772.0
Here's a look at my vanilla mod thread, progressing one step at a time!
http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11785.0

wuwuwu

  FFT Proper v1.01:Spin Fist can't miss and Lancer Innate Ignore Height and Concentrate are Too strong! Axes and Flails should no longer random damage!
  • Modding version: PSX