New spells...

[The Damned]

k, well this doesnt really belong here but...

skillsets A7 and A8
A7 has only the skill "Blood suck" and A8 has only the skill "Frog"

To mimic what Lydyn said and looking over it myself right now on FFTPatcher, they just seem like superfluous code since they're not even named and they're the only statuses that get they're own "skillsets".

A lot of the unnamed skillsets towards the end are just reproductions of skillets from the beginning like Dragoner's or Temple Knight's or a complete version of Fear. It's probably just more stuff that Square left in the game that didn't get used that they didn't delete since no one in his right mind would want to look at the code.  

Finally, considering the Blood Suck that Elmdor uses is doubtless named, meaning it's the 3F one, and considering that the Vampire (Cat) Blood Suck, the only other attack in the game able to cause Blood Suck at all, uses a different Inflict Status code than Elmdor's Blood Suck, Elmdor's cannot be the controller of the Vampire's.

(Besides, the whole separate existence of the Inflict Status codes in FFTPatcher makes this all more certain.)

[Archael]

You are both really slow individuals.

Here's what Zozma was referring to:

A7 might be the skillset that people under Blood Suck Status gain to be able to USE Blood Suck on others.

A8 might be the skillset that people under Frog Status gain to be able to cast the spell Frog if they have Black Magic secondary.

That's what he was getting at. If one of those theories turns out to be true, then it opens up alot of possibilities for skills that let units access a new skillset.

His theory about A7 is wrong because LD uses the real (3F) Blood Suck for a transformation spell (as in the unit gains a new skillset) successfully in Mercenaries.

A8 is untested.

Just because they seem like superfluous code doesn't mean they don't do anything.

For example, the very first skill listed in FFTPatcher looks like Superflous code, it's named <Nothing>, but it certainly does do something, and is used in-game.

The same goes for the two Blank Skills in between Quake and Toad 2.

etc etc

[LastingDawn]

Not quite... Elmdor uses 3F Blood Suck, that A7 is a unique Blood Suck, if it has no other purpose. And he has a good point. Blood Suck uses Blood Suck, and Frog Can use Frog. It's a good possibility and a theory that should be tested!

EDIT: Voldemort, what Balmafula uses is a modified version, the starting point is the Vampire's Blood Suck (Augur Apophis), which turns her into a "new form"and from that "new form" she uses Elmdor's Blood Suck (Coven's Calamity). Now it is a possibility that the Blood Suck is actually using "A7 Blood Suck" since it is the only skillset, I know the initial skill Certainly does not set the move used.

[The Damned]

You are both really slow individuals.

Guilty...as charged.

*Heat Drives Voldemort7*


Anyway, I completely forgot that Blood Sucked people use Blood Suck, probably because I usually try and avoid the status if I can. Same with Frog, of course.

I suppose that's a valid argument, though it seems like it would be rather easy to test out, which is what made me think that it was superfluous alongside the other repeat ones since no one has apparently tested out yet.

(To test it out, all you would have to do is get rid of A7 and A8, apply Blood Suck and Frog respectively, the former to others and the latter to yourself, and then see what happens.)

As for the stuff on the ability page, those are actually bad examples of superfluous code since almost ALL of those are necessary outside of the Crashes Game stuff (maybe). I'm a neophyte at coding, but even I know that a default state (the 00 on all the pages) is necessary.

As for other blanks spots on the ability page, I noticed rather easily the first time opening FFTPatcher that those are actually use for in-game cutscene actions like summoning Demons or Altima or whatever. The animations kind of tell you exactly what they're used for, so those are obviously not superfluous.

If I get the time tonight, I'll try and test out the A7 and A8 things myself since I was going to test out a few other things as well (if I get the time).

I'll see after I get back from the dentist.

[Archael]

you could also just do what LD did to add skillsets

etc

but

yeah

has some

unfinihsedh

[LastingDawn]

I have tested them and it appears to make no visible impact... a good theory, but it didn't seem to go through.

[The Damned]

I have tested them and it appears to make no visible impact... a good theory, but it didn't seem to go through.

So basically the Blood Sucked people can still add Blood Suck to others and Frogged people can still un-Frog themselves with Black Magic even if both A7 and A8 are deleted? That's good to know.

I'm curious, though. Did you use the original Inflicted Status codes in FFTPatcher when testing them? Or did you already make changes and then test them?

I'm just asking to ask since I can't really think of anything that changes since I know the Blood Suck (Blood Suck) has 100% of adding Blood Suck and the Vampire one has only a 25% (IIRC, at least in 1.0), so I'm pretty sure that the former is what Blood Suckers use anyway.

Hmm...that makes me curious, though, about what would happen if you got rid of the human Blood Suck and used only the Vampire Blood Suck.

I guess I should test that out considering that I'm curious about another potential Blood Suck anomaly anyway.

(It's currently looking like I'll have ample time tonight.)

[Zozma]

its good for me to know too, because im hoping to use all the blank skillsets to force some generics to have specific skills learned in some battles. because i might have several copies of each skillset with only specific things learned, i might end up using them all.

[The Damned]

I guess I'll report what I found before I go to bed even though my findings are far from complete with regards to Blood Suck status, even though this technically isn't the correct thread for it.

For my first Test patch, I used human Blood Suck and let all Squires have it as well while being thoughtful enough for once to make Ramza and Ch. 1 guesses innately immune and making 108 Gems available from the start, cost 1 Gil, and give me broken stats. (Thank you Item Attribute.)

It seems like having to access to Blood Suck makes the afflicted act differently, as I vaguely remember in 1.0, on the Elmdor fight (a.k.a. the only time you ever run into Blood Suck in the entire game) that when infected you, your character would Teleport to move even if they didn't have Teleport and would try to attack someone ever turn that they were in range, even if they were on your team and already turned.

Well...with regards to enemies at the very first battle of the game (after the Prologue), they seemed to largely avoid going after each other after the initial bite--one of them bit the other again, but they largely avoided each other--and the Teleport aspect never happened.

It may be just be my faulty memory that those things actually occurred in 1.0, though.

Other than that, the only other Blood Suck thing I got to test was on monsters. I undid Chocobos, Panthers, and Goblins immunity to Blood Suck to see if monsters made immune to Blood Suck because it glitched them somehow...but all three took to Blood Suck and were able to Blood Suck me back, so I'm guessing it was just some throwaway thing that got added in since you never access to Blood Suck unless you have an Invited Vampire (Cat) and are standing next to it with Monster Skill.

Similarly, with Blood Suck being controlled now, battles seem to glitch a bit if you win by having the (remaining) units Blood Sucked as the enemy units don't disappear. This could be potentially hiliarious at Aldramelk and possibly game crashing at Bethla Garrison, but I'm not going to nearly that far.

I'll probably just switch to the Vampire version of Blood Suck next and see if that has any different effects. I'll maybe even try to edit the ENTD so that I have access to all types of monsters at Mandalia, but I doubt it.

(Oh, and since I was bugging Lydyn about it, I tested Item in another class, Squire in this case. It looks like Item is the same as Throw, Jump, and Draw Out: it simply won't work for other classes.

That's rather annoying considering what I wanted to do with my potential patch.)

[BeoulveBlack]

i always thought that those skillsets with blood suck and frog only were for what Zoz said, but i guess not...

perhaps they were used in the testing stages, like that one with all those "broken" techniques packed into one or the complete fear skillset

[Zozma]

yeah, its definately good to know tho. thanks for testing it out.

i dont know what ill do with 2 extra blank skillsets anyway... but if i have like 5 versions of punch art, draw out, other generic sets.. etc i can control exactly what specific enemies will use on you without just relying on their job level and random selection stuff.

[The Damned]

You could also just try to play around with % that A.I. learns things depending on what particular skillset you're using, though I'm sure you already know that.

Hmmm...I'm currently not at my desktop so I guess that isn't anything else to add outside of being more specific about that unfortunate Item instance:


When I tried to use Potion in my generic Squire's menu, it would flash red as if not in stock, even though I had 5~, and say that it had it would take a turn to activate instead of being instant like they are now.


I wonder what part of the code this calls on that we would have to replace/manipulate.


(Also, if anyone didn't know, apparently Panthers use their Cat Kick animations for Reaction animations that aren't physical Counters. [Or at least it did for Speed Save.] It's oddly cute.)

[Skip Sandwich]

Item requires that the unit have a special type of action menu, you can set this in the Action tab of FFTPatcher. So you can't mix and match item type abilities with normal skills (the same goes for throw, charge, calculate, jump and draw out)

[The Damned]

I actually already knew that from what Lydyn had said, but he wasn't sure about Item, so I just decided to check out it for him.

I think I've thought of a way or two to circumvent it, but that takes testing on my (for some reason) sluggish desktop.

***

Normal/<Default> EDIT: Okay, so making Item go to <Default> just causes the same problems for everyone. Maybe I have to make all Items to Normal then too....

***

Normal/Normal EDIT: Damn. It seems like changing Items to Normal doesn't change a thing either. I was expecting it to pseudo-work except that Items wouldn't be taken out of the inventory like they're supposed to be.

***
Normal/Item Inventory EDIT: Okay, so it seems that even if you change them to Normal, Items work normally as long as Item itself has Item Inventory attached to it. It still won't work as part of none Item Skillsets though, so I'm beginning to think the Unknown Boxes have something to do with it if there is anything in FFTPatcher at all.

(I didn't check to see if stock was affected like I should have.)

***

Unknown EDIT: So unchecking that one box didn't work and the two other Unknown boxes near don't do exactly what I thought they would do in and of themselves apparently. Hmm...this will probably take longer than I want to do today since I want to clean my room.

Anyway, the only headway made after that (and before I took a nap) was double-checking Lasting Dawn's test (that Blood Suck can still be spread without A7 and that you can still un-Frog yourself with Frog after A8 has been deleted, even if you're giving Starting Status: Frog--I'm guessing Innate status prevent that though) and then messing around with a bit with the Vampire version of Blood Suck.

Interestingly enough, the Vampire version of Blood Suck isn't evadable like it says. It also doesn't add Blood Suck automatically like the formula says it should (since it uses the same formula as Blood Suck Blood Suck--perhaps I should just say Elmdor Blood Suck) and instance does the 25% chance thing like I remember, which interestingly enough makes it physically counterable.

I didn't check to see if the transmission rate was 100% like with Elmdor's Blood Suck, but I will probably do that tomorrow. (Maybe in another thread by then if so necessary.)

[Zozma]

so Vanya...

you know how if u insert new spells into "fairy" and crap like that largest effect files in the game... the game only freezes instead of showing the inserted effect...

i was thinking that if you changed the amount of bytes assigned to the effects sector to match the size of the effect you're inserting that MAYBE it wont crash...

u know how we can now change the sectors and sector sizes for sprites? i was thinking maybe it can be done for effects too... i wanted to fit a red colored galaxy stop into the file that holds fairy but the game just freezes...

[Vanya]

That's an interesting idea. Can you give me some info about sprite sector stuff?

[Zozma]

sure let me dig around for that tho, i forget where zodiac first told me about it lol...

[Vanya]

Cool. ^_^

[Vanya]

I posted the first 8 Effect files at the wiki. If you need them go get them! I'll be posting more from time to time! ^_^

[Cheetah]

Yay for effect files, keep posting them please Vanya, I could really use them as reference.