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Started by thechancellor, October 13, 2013, 05:02:38 pm
Quote from: Toshiko on October 13, 2013, 06:55:56 pmMy single biggest complaint about any game that uses it: MP. Get rid of it. If you already have charge time penalties, or cool downs, or delayed next action, or any other such thing, MP better not exist. You already have all the penalty you need for balancing ability use, especially if you have more than one of the aforementioned mechanics in place. The only way I would ever excuse MP use is if it had auto-regen. FFTA flirted with this, but did it wrong by setting it to 5 MP per turn universally. A set percentage per turn would make it not bullshit, but I'd still vastly prefer MP never ever ever be used again in any game ever. EVER.
QuoteAlso, given that positioning isn't a factor, wouldn't this really be FFX with no FFT whatsoever? Unless you mean that you're including jobs and sword skills and such, which would still be better described as FFX + FFV, but that's just me being pedantic. Either way, X had my favorite battle system of any game in the franchise, so I'm totally in support of the project.
Quote from: Zotis on October 13, 2013, 09:36:52 pmBut... but... you can't have an RPG without MP... it--it's tradition!
Quote from: Toshiko on October 13, 2013, 08:47:05 pmCharging is a justifiable mechanic, as is delaying next turn after a suitably strong ability. Use both, and you have every bit of penalty you would ever need. If you disagree, give the stronger abilities cool down periods as well. But MP is the single worst mechanic ever devised, due to never being used in a way that isn't horrible. Especially early game.FFT gives you several methods of replenishing MP, but how many are available early on? Effectively zero. You can use a spell maybe twice, and then your mage is a worthless little mudskipper who cannot attack, nor survive any amount of damage. And it isn't as though they're glass cannons, either, since Fire doesn't do an appreciable amount of damage more than a physical attack, especially when you consider that the spells have charge times. What MP says to FFT is, "you won't be able to use this job effectively until better jobs are already available to you." The level one spells would have been quite acceptable with their existing CT cost and 0 MP cost, and having both a before (a la FFT) and after (a la FFX) action delay penalty is enough to balance any skill's use that isn't insanely overpowered to start with (which cool down would handle nicely). All of the abilities are balanced from start to finish, at any stat or EXP level. No job is ever useless.If you're dead set on including MP, make it start at 0 and increment 15-20% or so per turn, with a Skies of Arcadia like Focus as an innate skill for all characters to spend your turn raising MP. Or start at 100% and regenerate 5-10% per turn. Not as preferable to abandoning it altogether, but far less grievous a mechanic than the standard method.
Quote from: Toshiko on October 13, 2013, 09:44:58 pmFFVIII and FFXIII say hello. The first Final Fantasy didn't have MP, either. Though XIII is the only one that didn't replace MP with a worse system. Actually, XIII's battle mechanics are fun once you can choose your own party and paradigms.
Quote from: Toshiko on October 13, 2013, 10:40:11 pmI certainly wouldn't have any gripes about primary classes being static; it forces a strategic hand, and makes each character truly unique. I'd especially like this if the secondary jobs weren't universal, either. Would especially be a boon if FFX's mid-battle party change mechanics were incorporated.
Quote from: Zotis on October 14, 2013, 12:17:40 amOn topic though, thechancellor, do you plan on having any character customisation? Hair style, face, etc... for example in FFT when you change class your character completely changes appearance, I'd rather the outfit changed but not the face/hairstyle. And main characters didn't change appearance, but I think they should.The problem with not allowing main characters to change job classes kinda seems like it arbitrarily limits what they are allowed to train in. I don't see why Agrias wouldn't be able to pick up some Mediator skills. At the same time though, it isn't very realistic for her to no longer be able to use the other skills she knows. I know it's for the sake of balancing the gameplay, otherwise characters would be way more overpowered than they already could be. So yeah, I don't know what you intend to do there, will characters only have access to the skills of the class they're currently in?Also... characters should have noses.
Quote from: Philogosten on October 14, 2013, 06:16:54 amWell I would suggest more dark element skills and more variety with weapons for mage types as they tend to just get short changed with a staff. You could expand on that and put in spell books, scythes, wands, tattoos for free hand casting. A customizable main character would be nice too as well as some choices throughout the game to help immersion instead of the player feeling railroaded into stuff. Kind of like what DAO did.
Quote from: Zotis on October 14, 2013, 09:37:25 amWhat about affecting character appearance based on their gear? You change your armor and you see the new armor on your character. That would be something that really appeals to me and just makes sense. If I give my priest equip armor and a carabini mail, why is she still wearing just a robe? And a character's weapon(s) and shield actually being in their hands the whole time instead of appearing out of thin air when they use them.One thing that I think would have really improved the aesthetics of FFT would have been the random generic characters you recruit having unique hairstyles/faces. So you keep shuffling the characters until you get one you like, and while their equipment changes and is visually represented their head stays the same no matter what class/equipment they have. Well, except for their helmet obviously, but if they have long hair it would trickle out.
Quote from: Zotis on October 14, 2013, 10:43:08 amYeah, that's understandable. I know it takes a but load of work to incorporate things like that. On the other hand, the better you make the elements that you do decide to incorporate the more people will likely be interested in your project.
Quote from: Zotis on October 14, 2013, 10:43:08 amI just had an idea for magic, what if the more it drained a character over time to use magic the longer the charge times became?
Quote from: Zotis on October 14, 2013, 10:43:08 amAnother idea: The more damage a person takes the weaker they become. It is kind of unrealistic to have a character with 1 HP still fighting as effectively as when they had full HP.
Quote from: Vanya on October 14, 2013, 11:04:41 amI think the best way to handle "classes" is a style similar to Final Fantasy II (J). Your actions determine how your character progresses. This takes away the problems of having primary and secondary jobs without restricting customizability for the player.Star Ocean had an interesting mechanic in it's talent system. Combining the two ideas, action based skill progression and talent restricted choices would strike a good balance. Character stats would determine what jobs a character has access to.If you want access to a specific job you have to take actions in battle that promote growth in the needed area. You have a mage type, but you want him to be able to access the Knight job? Equip a sword and have him attack to raise strength until he has the base str to do the job of knight. Conversely, a brutish fighter can use spells to raise intelligence and become a full blown mage.Of course you would have to do away with weapon restrictions which don't make much logical sense anyway, but you end up with a much more realistic and versatile system. And as far as accessibility to different types of attacks from the beginning, well a revamped Squire job with a large variety of skills that can be used to increase all the different stats can be made. Call it the Novice job or something. And of course to allow for more customizability to the player you can include a Freelancer job.And on the subject of special jobs, I never liked them much. I don't see any reason why Agrias couldn't have helped trained other characters to be Holy Knights. I think it would be better represent each character's individuality by giving them specific signature moves like the way limit breaks are used throughout the series. Perhaps they can gain specific skills based on their favorite weapon and or their talents. A thief-like character can have special moves associated with daggers and speed. A holy knight character can have moves associated with swords and holy elements. A wizard can have special combination spells. It's all about the creative use of the systems you're borrowing.
Quote from: Philogosten on October 14, 2013, 04:54:48 pmOh I thought of something. What if through certain choices you could go evil in the game? Kind of like how in Growlanser 2 you can end up ditching your team and joining up with the bad guys.
Quote from: Elric on October 14, 2013, 06:20:25 pmSooo many variables...Either way I'd be happy to help out in some way. I've wanted to branch out a bit anyway.
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