Final Fantasy Hacktics

If the shuriken skill won't phase through walls but will be renaming it with a plural I am fine with.

If it has to phase through walls then a name change would be necessary. Again I know I am adamant about shuriken but my point still stands.

Yes I understand that not everyone likes the current shuriken change because the damage is too low, but I think either giving it speed * 10, removing MP cost, or if it really has to go back to multi hit then it has to be renamed something else

Could we change the formula from SP*X to something else, like (X*SP+Y) or (X*PA+Y)?  This is a cool formula because the Y is not reduced by Defense UP nor Protect.

Quote from: Gaignun on September 07, 2016, 09:12:19 am
Could we change the formula from SP*X to something else, like (X*SP+Y) or (X*PA+Y)?  This is a cool formula because the Y is not reduced by Defense UP nor Protect.

I suppose if it can work i'm cool with that too

Thanks Gaignun for responding. I only have responses on a few things.

Quote from: Gaignun on September 07, 2016, 04:55:49 am

Recover on Squires: I understand the need to keep units out of critical.  I only wish we can create something that isn't a handicapped version of Nurse.  Otherwise, what is stopping us from giving a recover skill to every job?

Since this does nothing except regain HP for a critical unit, it is a combination of a handicapped version of HP Restore and Nurse, but both working in tandem make a viable ability. One of the disadvantages of Nurse is that the AI will use it even on minor injuries (even when Move-HP up or existing Regen will put them back to full in some cases) or as set up even when more prioritized actions could be done. With HP Restore, the unit regains all its HP, but it doesn't trigger every time a unit goes into critical so it is a bit of a gamble. (Because of this, a minor point of mine is to reduce HP Restore's JP cost in the next major release but it's a very minor point so will only mention it briefly here for now.) This skill gives the AI an option where if in critical, it can restore its own HP some, but it must waste a turn in order to do so, (unlike HP Restore) and it won't be spammed.

I figured Basic Skill since Basic Skill has the most "basic" abilities and this ability could be, but may not be, useful depending on RSM, if you have Regen already, etc.

I would argue against putting it on other skillsets because most skillsets either have a better or different way of healing, or are very offensive. With Basic Skill's "mixed" nature, skillsets like Snipe or Black Magic aren't great for this skill.

Finally, I don't think the slippery slope context applies here. We don't need a self healing ability on every skillset simply because more offensive skillsets (which are those without such supports) will need to be gambled with or take a JP hit in order to be viable and consistent. Part of building your team if you want it to be successful is predicting the AI. And this ability being on Basic Skill doesn't give much extra offense power to Squires or Basic Skill users in general.

Quote from: Gaignun on September 07, 2016, 04:55:49 amHaste/Slow: How about swapping the accuracies of only Slow and Slow 2?  The accuracy of Haste 2 isn't really a problem.

I'd rather be consistent here, especially if closing the gap on JP.

Quote from: Gaignun on September 07, 2016, 04:55:49 amScholar equipment: In the event that scholars get shields, I would prefer they lose hat access in order to prevent stacking the MA of Aegis Shield and Holy Miter.

Again, not a fan of Scholars picking up shields taking them away from TM especially if TM becomes very frail. With the recent HP buff, this is why I think hats could go here instead of shields. If they pick up Regen and Poison, I vote that Mad Science moves elsewhere as well.

Quote from: Gaignun on September 07, 2016, 04:55:49 amItem and White Magic: I can't speak for others, but I don't think White Magic is unequivocally better than Item.  As you mentioned, Item can restore Berserk, Undead, and Stop.  However, aside from those ailments, White Magic is unequivocally more potent than Item.  For the significant cost of running a high-faith team, Cure 1 beats X-Potion and Raise 2 beats Phoenix Down hands down.

They really don't. Cure on a Priest's base MA only restores, even with a faith boost, 77 HP. Yes, it's AOE but 77 HP is often counter productive and requires two turns on the AI's part if they live that long. X-Potion is instant but not AOE and requires no faith or stacking. PD is instant and 100% (the only revival ability of its kind in the entire game) but revives with potentially the lowest HP. Raise 2 will miss a significant portion of the time and requires 5 CT which many units can intercept (and the AI puts a high priority on mid-charging that spell in most cases.) However, the potential reward is obviously much greater than PD.

Quote from: Gaignun on September 07, 2016, 04:55:49 amNew skills on Item: Given the versatility of White Magic, which consists of a mixture of offensive and defensive skills, I am reluctant to the idea of putting offensive skills (damage or status) on Item.  A damage skill in particular will likely be overlooked by the AI, as Item users typically have other, more effective means of dealing single-target damage.  I think reducing the JP cost of status healing, and perhaps introducing an improved form of Phoenix Down, will be enough.

If we buff PD, I think we definitely need to merge poison and sap. One of PD's weaknesses is the poison problem. The damage skills are there to be unevadable, single target damaging/debuffing abilities. They have more effective ways depending on equipment and secondaries, and I'm not necessarily totally for putting abilities like this in the game, but it's worth a look if people are truly believing Item needs an offensive ability.

Quote from: Gaignun on September 07, 2016, 04:55:49 amCursed Ring: Cursed Ring was OP in 1.38 precisely because of its SP boost, which has never been nerfed.  Players would make 10~12 SP units with Cursed Ring, so while you attempt to finish off the rest of the team, the Cursed Ring units chew through the countdown clock, auto-revive, and get a free turn.  For this reason, giving Cursed Ring an extra point of SP and/or increasing the revival chance is a step backward in my opinion.  Removing its Fire weakness is OK, though.

Making Raise 2 evadeable: I believe this would also make friendly units evade their own Raise 2.

Edit: Cursed Ring Suggestion: Remove Weak: Fire and Always: Undead. Add Always: Poison and Immune: Regen.  We might as well remove Hyper Wrist from the game at the same time, since this form of Cursed Ring will be superior.  Not sure how popular this suggestion will be.

The thing about Raise 2 is that "dead" status shouldn't be able to evade. This is the only use for Raise 2 outside of a killing undead tool.

Cursed Ring has become a topic of debate in that it is now "too" nerfed. We don't see it much anymore and it is hard to make a mage unit with them because high faith means you're more susceptible to Raise 2. I argued that this was just a fact of Raise 2 and a side effect of using one of the most unique items in the game, but this is the only reason (at least to my understanding) that 99% was suggested for Raise 2 (for undead units.) I argued why this would affect the ability itself in my previous post. Since it doubles as powerful Revival and an undead killing tool, this made it "too" good in some peoples' eyes and was overshadowing other undead tools as well as "double dipping."

That is why I made so many other suggestions.

Just a quick interjection at Phoenix Down... Can we code it to remove both dead and poison?

Quote from: gatebuster202 on September 07, 2016, 02:10:38 pm
Just a quick interjection at Phoenix Down... Can we code it to remove both dead and poison?

Not sure, but I'd rather it not do that (unless we make Poison/Sap the same status in which case I'm still reluctant, but more tolerable of the idea.)

In all honesty I really don't think that it Should remove poison. As that removes the danger of Poison. Poison is good for stripping health. But it's better at holding down units as they are revived by PD an Wish. See Round 1 Elmdore. His team finagled the comeback by holding down the time Mage on map 2. And they did it with poison. Otherwise the tm was a threat, but never recovered due to the inability to cast.

Magic Ring, 108 Gems, Light Robe, P Bag, and an instant cast Regen on white magic, these are all the answers a time/white mage has against poison. You played 139 gatebuster so you should've been aware of how powerful poison was against units that couldn't heal themselves instantly. I didn't see your team or match, but if you did actually make a time mage that didn't have one of the aforementioned solutions to poison and only have phoenix down be your only other form of revival then that's just a match up issue with your team and unit, not a balance issue.

Phoenix down is fine just reviving I would like it be buffed to at most 10% healing though. It wouldn't counter poison, but at least you'd survive wiznibus.

Some brief responses.

Quote from: silentkaster on September 07, 2016, 12:42:29 pm
Since [Recover] does nothing except regain HP for a critical unit, it is a combination of a handicapped version of HP Restore and Nurse, but both working in tandem make a viable ability. One of the disadvantages of Nurse is that the AI will use it even on minor injuries (even when Move-HP up or existing Regen will put them back to full in some cases) or as set up even when more prioritized actions could be done.  This skill gives the AI an option where if in critical, it can restore its own HP some, but it must waste a turn in order to do so, (unlike HP Restore) and it won't be spammed.

I acknowledge the point against Nurse.

Could we at least combine this skill with Yell?  This would feel satisfactory in two ways: (1) It repurposes Yell, which is currently a turn sink. (Yell spends 100 CT to provide a single (sub 12 SP) unit with 96 CT over the following 48 clock ticks. This yields no net positive benefit unless it incidentally cures Slow.) (2) It helps differentiate the skill from Nurse.

Next, regarding Haste/Slow 2...

Quote from: silentkaster on September 07, 2016, 12:42:29 pm
I'd rather be consistent here, especially if closing the gap on JP.

I would hate to nerf Haste 2 out of the meta purely because it and Slow 2 have similar names.  I think we have achieved a nice balance of the relative costs and benefits of Haste and Haste 2.  The even distribution of Haste and Haste 2 in the present tournament (8 units know Haste, 10 units know Haste 2) is evidence of this.

Finally...

Quote from: silentkaster on September 07, 2016, 12:42:29 pm
[White Magic spells] really don't [beat items hands down]. Cure on a Priest's base MA only restores, even with a faith boost, 77 HP. Yes, it's AOE but 77 HP is often counter productive and requires two turns on the AI's part if they live that long.

We need to consider optimized cases.  My 21 MA Bard in Season 5 heals himself for over 160 HP with Cure 1.  If Cure 1 heals for 77 HP, I wouldn't have bothered learning it.  This optimization comes at a cost.  In the case of my Bard, this cost was high Faith and an accessory slot to cover this high Faith.  Of course, it would have been cheaper to drop my Bard to 40 Faith and use X-Potion instead.  I decided that the cost of a more potent Cure was nevertheless worth it. 

It's like Chirijiraden: It hits for only 90 damage at 10 MA, but it would be foolish to balance it on the supposition that it is equal in strength to Cover Fire because you'll never see anyone with less than 15 MA using Chirijiraden.

As for your point about Haste, I'm fine with that. You made a good argument. I'm not a fan of Yell, either so I would be fine with it being combined somehow, though I'm honestly not sure how to do that as I'm not that smart

Quote from: Gaignun on September 08, 2016, 11:20:07 am

We need to consider optimized cases.  My 21 MA Bard in Season 5 heals himself for over 160 HP with Cure 1.  If Cure 1 heals for 77 HP, I wouldn't have bothered learning it.  This optimization comes at a cost.  In the case of my Bard, this cost was high Faith and an accessory slot to cover this high Faith.  Of course, it would have been cheaper to drop my Bard to 40 Faith and use X-Potion instead.  I decided that the cost of a more potent Cure was nevertheless worth it. 

It's like Chirijiraden: It hits for only 90 damage at 10 MA, but it would be foolish to balance it on the supposition that it is equal in strength to Cover Fire because you'll never see anyone with less than 15 MA using Chirijiraden.

Can you expand on this? I might be missing what you're trying to say. Of course you wouldn't have bothered learning that with lowish MA but because you wanted that unit to be stronger, you went with that. But how does this argument propose that the cost of running a high faith team is less than the benefit provided by Cure and Raise 2?

It's pretty tough for me to make definitive statements about that cost/benefit analysis, but I can scrap together a few statements about how much more potent I think White Magic is.

(1) Raise 2 is the most potent way of recovering from a defensive position.  You spend one turn reviving a fallen unit.  If your opponent then spends more than one turn knocking out that revived unit, you run a turn surplus which can be put toward offense or further defense. 

Phoenix Down cannot do this.  Not only will the revived unit require a second turn to be healed, but this unit will be killed in one hit before being healed, and possibly even after if your opponent has heavy hitters. At best you trade a turn with your opponent.  At worst the revived unit gets healed and still dies, dies in an AoE attack which incidentally harms/knocks out other teammates, or dies on its own turn to Poison.  In all cases you run turn-deficits.

Of course the unique downside of Raise 2 is its long CT.

(2) A Cure spell can heal multiple targets.  Heal two targets with a 130 HP Cure and you already run a one-turn surplus over X-Potion.  In addition, Cure, unlike X-Potion, can be used to manage AoE damage.

So, to summarize, optimized White Magic provides:

• Efficient resurrection


• Higher healing


• AoE damage management

For the cost of:

• Slow resurrection


• High faith, requiring Setiemson and/or MEv

I suppose the only way to prove if the benefits outweigh the costs is by running a big analysis on Item and White Magic teams to see which team wins more on average.  Luckily, we are blessed with selfless hosts and many teams with a good mix of Item and White Magic this season.  How about we observe how these teams do?

IN the spirit of investigation @Both Silentkaster and Gaignun, I'd like to do a detailed breakdown of Item vs White Magic. If you both provide a pair of teams or even three teams, that focus on different aspects of WM, Item or Both, I will stream each of your teams (All Six) against the Top 8 teams from Season 5, using Season 5 Maps.

So, I offer, my take on what Arena Shields, Headgear and Armor can be. I did not touch Headbands.

Hats         
Black Hood           110   30   None
Flash Hat           70   40   Half: Earth, Wind, Water
Golden Hairpin   70   40   Half: Dark, Holy
Green Beret           85   20   Move +1, Jump +1
Holy Miter           75   0   MA +2
Twist Headband   75   0   PA +2
Thief Hat           65   0   Speed +1
Triangle Hat           75   10   Boost: Earth, Wind, Water

So the Hats changed a bit. A slight change on HP or we now Halve a new set of elements. This will be expanded upon with Robes, but because all mages have access to both, Hats and Robes they are set up to complement each other. Triangle Hat benefits both mages and ninja's, giving two of their tons a opportunity to receive a boost. Golden Hairpin has changed due to the much heavier prevalence of Holy and Dark in abilities and weapons. This doesn't mean we see Strengthening Dark and Holy go, but instead we redirect it to a Robe.

Clothes         
Brigandine           130   10   None
Black Costume   90   10   Absorb: Dark, Fire
Mirage Vest           90   10   Absorb: Holy, Wind
Rubber Suit           90   10   Absorb: Lighting, Earth
Aqua Suit           90   10   Absorb: Ice, Water
Power Sleeve   85   0   PA +2
Wizard Outfit   85   0   MA +2
Secret Clothes   70   0   Speed +1

Absorb Gear. That's the change. The robes have lost all their absorb properties, and we have rerouted the clothing. Strengthening earth is gone, and everything absorbs as a pair. No pair will nullify two tons. Ice, Lightning, Fire, Holy are all separated. Only thing left is Dark and Fire being potent together. Absorb gear took a small HP drop, but the MA/PA Stat gear compensated up a extra 5 Hp for the 5 they lost on the Hats.
         
Robes         
Silk Robe           90   50   None
Robe of Lords   70   120   None
White Robe    80   50   Half: Fire, Ice, Lightning
Black Robe           65   40   Boost: Fire, Ice, Lightning
Cultist Robe           65   40   Boost: Holy, Dark
Wizard Robe   60   40   MA +2
Priest Cassock   80   40   MA+1, PA +1
Light Robe           75   50   Always: Regen Immune: Poison

Robes. Scrapped Chameleon Robe. Exchanged the Cultist Robe. Linen Robe became the Priest Cassock. Silk Robe and Robe of Lords have a been statistically balanced to Clothes. White Robe is slightly stronger HP/MP wise then they Half Hats. Boosting Robes stand to balance with Hats. You can not Boost everything without a Weapon or 108 Gems. You can't Half everything with these options either. What you can do is both Boost and Half Holy and Dark. Making the elements formidable, but at the cost of low HP, Moderate MP and little elemental and Status Coverage.

Helmets         
Grand Helmet   160   0   None
Cross Helmet   120   50   Immune: Sap
Barbuta           115   15   PA+1
Circlet           115   15   MA+1
Mythril Helmet   110   15   Move +1, Jump +1
Genji Helmet   100   0   Immune: Slow, Innocent
Crystal Helmet   110   0   Boost: Holy, Earth, Fire
Diamond Helmet   110   0   Immune: DA, Initial Reraise
Platina Helmet   110   0   Immune: Poison, Oil, Stop
Gold Helmet           110   0   Immune: Darkness, Frog, Sleep
         
Armor         
Maximillian           160   0   None
Genji Armor           85   0   Speed +1
Carabini Mail   120   10   PA +1
Platina Armor   120   10   MA +1
Reflect Mail           150   0   Initial: Reflect Immune:Faith
Diamond Armor   110   0   Immune: Dead, DS, Petrify, Slow
Gold Armor           110   0   Immune: Berserk, Don't Move, Oil
Crystal Armor   110   0   Immune: Charm, Slow, Undead
         
Shields   P-Ev   M-Ev   Attibutes
Escutcheon II   25   25   None
Aegis Shield           5   25   Immune: Innocent MA+1
Genji Shield           25   5   Immune: Darkness PA +1
Swift Plate           5   5   Speed +1 Immune; Haste, Slow, Stop
Flame Shield   15   10   Absorb: Fire
Gold Shield           15   10   Absorb: Lightning
Ice Shield           10   15   Absorb: Ice
Dewdrop Shield   10   15   Absorb: Water
Diamond Shield   20   5   Absorb: Dark
Platina Shield   20   5   Absorb: Holy
Round Shield   5   20   Absorb: Earth
Wyvern Shield   5   20   Absorb: Wind
Crystal Shield   25   0   Initial: Reflect
Kaiser Plate           15   15   Strengthen: Ice, Dark, Wind
Gaian Shield   10   10   Immune: Oil, MA/PA +1
Severed Head   10   10   Always: Berserk, Initial: Haste

In general I am in favour with shuffling around the elemental properties.  I can take or leave MP bonuses on armor.  (In my opinion, low mana pools ought to be a weakness among heavy armor classes; that's why they have robes.) However, I am noticing a trend among the HP and MP changes.  Let me elaborate:

Among the +XA gear:

• Both +XA hats and clothes receive +5 HP with the exception of Secret Clothes, which is unchanged.


• +XA helmets receive +15 MP


• +XA armor receive +10 MP

Among absorption/strengthening gear:

• Flash Hat and Golden Hairpin receive -10 MP


• Absorption clothes receive -10 HP


• Earth Clothes and Chameleon Robe bite the dust

So, in summary, elemental gear gets nerfed and +XA gear gets buffed?  Are elemental teams currently too strong in the meta?

I am not sure how I feel about the removal of Earth Clothes and Chameleon Robe.  Removing Chameleon Robe will effectively remove Excalibur Grand Cross Paladins from the meta and leave Excalibur stranded.  Removing Earth Clothes will definitely reduce the prevalence of Earth absorb teams.  I never saw a problem with either :/

Next, concerning robes, I notice that a higher premium is being placed on the MP bonuses.

+2 MA gear (Wizard Outfit and Wizard Robe)
1.40: +40 MP costs 15 HP
Proposal: +40 MP costs 25 HP

+1 XA gear (Heavy armor and Priest Cassock)
Proposal: +30 MP costs 40 HP  (The addition of 1 PA/MA is largely inconsequential to all but Geomancy)

+1 MA robes (Linen Robe changing to Priest Cassock)
Proposal: -15 HP (Straight nerf to all but Geomancy)

+0 XA gear (Brigandine and Silk Robe)
1.40: +30 MP costs 15 HP
Proposal: +40 MP costs 40 HP

MP is one of those stats you don't care how much you have as long as you have enough.  On the other hand, HP is a stat that can never be high enough.  Consequently, HP is more valuable than MP.

There was a time several years ago when we thought otherwise, and most robes had far less HP.  Robes back then sucked.  Only recently (patch 1.37? 1.38?) did we give these robes more HP and bring them out of obscurity.   By slashing robes' HP and leaving the likes of Brigandine and Black Hood unchanged, I fear we'll slip back into those dark days.

Last, I like the shield changes, but I wonder if giving Swift Plate both Slow and Stop resistance is a bit overkill.  I personally am fine with just Slow resistance.

At Gaignun, Lets start with the easy one, Swift Plate. It gained an Inability to be hasted in exchange it can't be stopped. It still provides speed.

MP does matter how much you have now, more then the last few patches due to a Balanced version of MP switch. Some People can and will use that excess MP as a second MP Pool, two new weapons hit the MP Pool exclusively. (Mage Masher with Holy Element and Ethereal Spear.)

Elemental Gear saw a slight reduction in HP to compensate for the Offensive Nature of AoE Healing from casters. Admittedly, this would be better if the "Basic Summons" no longer smart targeted. (Shiva, Ramuh, Ifrit.) To allow better synergy. But I am not suggesting that as it isn't thought through.

Stat Boosting Armor sees a bit of a MP boost. This is to allow a few more casting options. You can squeeze two more LoH out of a Paladin or more -tons... It opens up builds. without handing them a second health pool or forcing them to use the MP dedicated Helmet.

Flash Hat and GH Now provide = Amounts of MP Current Flash Hat is 80/20, and New Flash Hat is 70/40. IF you don't want to Halve incoming Dark/Holy but need the MP, grab the Flash Hat. Halving Gear is used for a Defensive Purpose, so you take a small hit to your mostly Offensive Resource. (And they improve your Defense so if someone uses it as a Second HP Pool, they get less milage from both the "extra health" and the extra elemental protection.

I think I covered everything
The only problem we might see is Aqua Suit and Black Costume... Those four elements show up on Wizard's skillset, and would be hard to plan around a team using two of each. (You would still have Bolts.) Otherwise, it should be difficult for a unit to completely nullify every elemental or reduce their elemental damage a significant amount from any class. (And they most certainly won't be doing it with much or any status protection.) (This paragraph can be ignored or omitted, it's strictly musing)

I noticed I failed to talk about chameleon robes and earth clothes. I will correct that here.

Chameleon robe does not "have" to go. However it would use up a spare slot of equipment. What it offered, Dead/DS protection and Holy absorption was geared to Armored users and looks like clothes. (It's the one element clothes didn't absorb.) Earth clothes lost strengthening and I shuffled the elemental absorbs so as to not create a simple way to block -tons. (Every other elemental skill set has easy access to other elements or skillsets that synergize with their first skill set.) So holy absorption went, with all the others to clothes. Did this end GC Paladins? Not nessecarily. It does mean that another holy absorb option must be considered. Or Null:Holy at least. Neither Item is super attractive to a paladin, currently. (Talk of adding MonkeyGrip would allow Platina Shield with Excaliber.)

Earth Clothes lose Strengthen, but Triangle hat now strengthens water, wind and earth. This opens a earth strengthen back up to scholar.

You had asked for my thoughts and here they are.

Quote from: gatebuster202 on September 18, 2016, 11:42:41 pm
So, I offer, my take on what Arena Shields, Headgear and Armor can be. I did not touch Headbands.

Hats         
Black Hood           110   30   None
Flash Hat           70   40   Half: Earth, Wind, Water
Golden Hairpin   70   40   Half: Dark, Holy
Green Beret           85   20   Move +1, Jump +1
Holy Miter           75   0   MA +2
Twist Headband   75   0   PA +2
Thief Hat           65   0   Speed +1
Triangle Hat           75   10   Boost: Earth, Wind, Water

So the Hats changed a bit. A slight change on HP or we now Halve a new set of elements. This will be expanded upon with Robes, but because all mages have access to both, Hats and Robes they are set up to complement each other. Triangle Hat benefits both mages and ninja's, giving two of their tons a opportunity to receive a boost. Golden Hairpin has changed due to the much heavier prevalence of Holy and Dark in abilities and weapons. This doesn't mean we see Strengthening Dark and Holy go, but instead we redirect it to a Robe.

I'd rather leave Golden Hairpin as is and if we feel we need a Half: Dark and Half: Holy item, then add something like the Feather Cap or Leather Hat and have one of those items do that. I like the Triangle Hat as is now, so don't see a need for changing that. Again, if we need a piece of clothing needs to boost these elements, a new item can be introduced. No comment on HP/MP changes.

Quote from: gatebuster202 on September 18, 2016, 11:42:41 pm
Clothes         
Brigandine           130   10   None
Black Costume   90   10   Absorb: Dark, Fire
Mirage Vest           90   10   Absorb: Holy, Wind
Rubber Suit           90   10   Absorb: Lighting, Earth
Aqua Suit           90   10   Absorb: Ice, Water
Power Sleeve   85   0   PA +2
Wizard Outfit   85   0   MA +2
Secret Clothes   70   0   Speed +1

Absorb Gear. That's the change. The robes have lost all their absorb properties, and we have rerouted the clothing. Strengthening earth is gone, and everything absorbs as a pair. No pair will nullify two tons. Ice, Lightning, Fire, Holy are all separated. Only thing left is Dark and Fire being potent together. Absorb gear took a small HP drop, but the MA/PA Stat gear compensated up a extra 5 Hp for the 5 they lost on the Hats.
         
Robes         
Silk Robe           90   50   None
Robe of Lords   70   120   None
White Robe    80   50   Half: Fire, Ice, Lightning
Black Robe           65   40   Boost: Fire, Ice, Lightning
Cultist Robe           65   40   Boost: Holy, Dark
Wizard Robe   60   40   MA +2
Priest Cassock   80   40   MA+1, PA +1
Light Robe           75   50   Always: Regen Immune: Poison

Robes. Scrapped Chameleon Robe. Exchanged the Cultist Robe. Linen Robe became the Priest Cassock. Silk Robe and Robe of Lords have a been statistically balanced to Clothes. White Robe is slightly stronger HP/MP wise then they Half Hats. Boosting Robes stand to balance with Hats. You can not Boost everything without a Weapon or 108 Gems. You can't Half everything with these options either. What you can do is both Boost and Half Holy and Dark. Making the elements formidable, but at the cost of low HP, Moderate MP and little elemental and Status Coverage.

I'm not a fan of Silk Robe as proposed. It's not a piece of equipment we see too often, but it does get some use sometimes, particularly from tanky magic users or Paladins. I believe Robe of Lords should get Sap or Berserk protection, (Berserk definitely if Defense Ring gets changed). For the same reason Gaignun mentioned, I don't believe Chameleon Robe should change. Excalibur is a niche weapon that can only be used naturally by Paladins and without a Robe to absorb, that limits it even further. Unless we'd plan on making Excalibur one handed (which is unlikely) then that weapon would become pretty obsolete (and it's not too popular even now.) The Priest Cassock idea sounds more like a Clothing item to me anyway, and there are clothing slots available (Clothes, Leather Vest, Mythril Vest, Adaman Vest, etc.)

Quote from: gatebuster202 on September 18, 2016, 11:42:41 pm

Helmets         
Grand Helmet   160   0   None
Cross Helmet   120   50   Immune: Sap
Barbuta           115   15   PA+1
Circlet           115   15   MA+1
Mythril Helmet   110   15   Move +1, Jump +1
Genji Helmet   100   0   Immune: Slow, Innocent
Crystal Helmet   110   0   Boost: Holy, Earth, Fire
Diamond Helmet   110   0   Immune: DA, Initial Reraise
Platina Helmet   110   0   Immune: Poison, Oil, Stop
Gold Helmet           110   0   Immune: Darkness, Frog, Sleep
         
Armor         
Maximillian           160   0   None
Genji Armor           85   0   Speed +1
Carabini Mail   120   10   PA +1
Platina Armor   120   10   MA +1
Reflect Mail           150   0   Initial: Reflect Immune:Faith
Diamond Armor   110   0   Immune: Dead, DS, Petrify, Slow
Gold Armor           110   0   Immune: Berserk, Don't Move, Oil
Crystal Armor   110   0   Immune: Charm, Slow, Undead
         
Shields   P-Ev   M-Ev   Attibutes
Escutcheon II   25   25   None
Aegis Shield           5   25   Immune: Innocent MA+1
Genji Shield           25   5   Immune: Darkness PA +1
Swift Plate           5   5   Speed +1 Immune; Haste, Slow, Stop
Flame Shield   15   10   Absorb: Fire
Gold Shield           15   10   Absorb: Lightning
Ice Shield           10   15   Absorb: Ice
Dewdrop Shield   10   15   Absorb: Water
Diamond Shield   20   5   Absorb: Dark
Platina Shield   20   5   Absorb: Holy
Round Shield   5   20   Absorb: Earth
Wyvern Shield   5   20   Absorb: Wind
Crystal Shield   25   0   Initial: Reflect
Kaiser Plate           15   15   Strengthen: Ice, Dark, Wind
Gaian Shield   10   10   Immune: Oil, MA/PA +1
Severed Head   10   10   Always: Berserk, Initial: Haste

Why so many items that remove slow? There would be a shield, two pieces of body armor and a helmet that negate slow. Not to mention accessories and the fact that I believe there is an idea for Platinum Sword to cancel Slow. If anything, I'd probably be interested in seeing current Genji Armor and Reflect Mail combine. A low HP Armor that grants Initial: Reflect and +1 speed. Genji Shield looks like it would be wayyyy strengthened and not sure I like that. Also, don't mind new shield ideas but would rather keep names that were in Vanilla if possible. Just something that gives familiarity to new players even if the properties changed. Also, not a fan of Gaian shield. I think Immunity to Oil is enough. (I could see possibly raising its evade or giving it something like Null: X but not PA and MA + 1)

@ gatebuster

Swift Plate
I was under the impression that Swift Plate is gaining Immune: Haste to penalize SP stacking, and Immune: Slow so that Slow is not incurable.

Robes & MP Switch
What about the robe wearers who don't use MP Switch?   I don't believe that MP Switch is so potent that we need to weaken an entire class of armor to accommodate it. The cost of using MP Switch is the opportunity cost of all other reaction abilities, as well as the real probability of losing turns restoring lost MP, which is far less efficient than restoring lost HP.

Elemental gear & self-absorption
I am of the opinion that element-themed teams trade offensive healing for (1) restricted equipment options, (2) inaccessibility of evasion gear (e.g., you can't absorb friendly Kotetsu well if your M-Ev is through the roof), and (3) vulnerability to elemental defense (e.g., White Robe, clothes, hats, and accessories).

There was a time when Brigandine's HP was only around 10 higher than the absorption clothes. At that time, many players chose the absorption clothes over Brigandine even if they didn't run self-absorption strategies because the security against possible enemy elemental damage was worth the cost of 10 HP. (E.g., In season 2 circa Summer 2013, 37 units equipped one of the 100 HP absorption clothes; meanwhile, only 8 equipped Brigandine).

To make Brigandine more attractive, it received a 20 HP buff.  This buff had the intended effect: In season 5, only 18 units equip one of the 100 HP absorption clothes, whereas 12 equip Brigandine.  The ratio of absorption clothes to Brigandine has swung from 4.6:1 in season 2 to 1.5:1 in season 5.  I would say that this is a nice balance.

Excalibur Grand Cross & Monkey Grip
Monkey Grip carries the opportunity cost of losing Attack UP. In this case, Excalibur can no longer compete with Phoenix Blade or Ice Brand paired with Attack UP.  A Holy absorption accessory would be viable were Holy absorption not on Magic Ring, which is a lackluster choice for PA-based units.

@ silentkaster

You're right about Slow immunity.  I didn't notice that Genji Helm and Diamond Armor gained Slow immunity!

Concerning Genji Shield, the buff is to put it on par with a weakened form of Aegis Shield. I think these two shields could lose even more PEv/MEv, though (e.g., down to 20/0 and 0/20 or somewhere in between).

Ditto on Gaian Shield looking a little strong.  Unless we are ready to welcome 170 damage Carve Models, I suggest we reconsider its PA/MA +1.

Quote from: Gaignun on September 23, 2016, 05:31:48 am

@ silentkaster

Concerning Genji Shield, the buff is to put it on par with a weakened form of Aegis Shield. I think these two shields could lose even more PEv/MEv, though (e.g., down to 20/0 and 0/20 or somewhere in between).

Not so much the evasion percentage, as much as the blind protection. With this, you'll easily get to 15 PA Grand Crosses (20 with Attack Up) and in the case of, say, Phoenix Blade, 16 PA Grand Crosses with Immunity to Don't Act, Don't Move and Initial Reraise! Sure, we could change a bunch of weapons to make this less palpable, but I just feel Null: Blind could be left as Null: Dead or simply add Null: Petrify or something. Just my thoughts.

That's a good point.  I wanted Blind immuniy on a shield so Geomancers and Squires can use GC without depending on Blind immunity from an accessory, but it's true that many GC builds will get a +1 PA buff and some among them will reach 15 PA.  Would the shield be better if it (1) didn't have +1 PA, or (2) didn't have Blind immunity?