Arena battle videos and discussion

Squidgy · July 24, 2011, 04:18:30 am

Quickening Mime sounds scary.
Hax Ninjas are cool.

Thanks much Wiz.

Barren · July 24, 2011, 12:13:53 pm

True Light (Swords of Swords) vs True Light (Mages of Doom)

Dol (Masochism) vs Malroth

CT5Holy (Do Not Disturb) vs Teddirayo

Dol (Healing Death) vs Vigilanti (I Can Hurt You!)

CT5Holy · July 24, 2011, 02:44:35 pm

I forget whether MP Restore triggering even when not in critical was intentional or not, but I like it this way. Will definitely consider using.

Thanks Barren! (and Wiz, but I already told you in chat =P)

Malroth · July 24, 2011, 03:40:31 pm

I was almost out of JP when it came to picking a reaction so I could only choose from the classes I already had so I thought it'd be slightly more handy than MA save

Quote from: CT5Holy on July 24, 2011, 02:44:35 pm
I forget whether MP Restore triggering even when not in critical was intentional or not, but I like it this way. Will definitely consider using.

Thanks Barren! (and Wiz, but I already told you in chat =P)

Barren · July 24, 2011, 11:30:50 pm

Well MA Save and MP Restore are useful for different purposes, your bard's has summon magic so mp restore was a good reaction for him considering that he can keep casting titan or ifrit over and over...so you made some good choices there where as my bard is a DO abuser with MA Save and its instant 100% accuracy attack

I will say Malroth that your dancer could have been better but she can do her job well with her ninjitsu and plus giving fire absorb to your archers neat idea! plus the good compat heal is neat...though i would try best compat if you're going for a fire heal...but thats just me. still good team Malroth, you've been watching some arena matches up until now to try, i can tell

Dol · July 25, 2011, 03:06:48 pm

Some thoughts on my teams and the rest of the matches. Transitioning from vanilla and 1.3 mindsets to Arena is going to take some mental adjusments on my part.

Team was designed around Wind absorption and Tornado spamming.

Scholar: Wanted to see how well Tornado did in practice. Seems ok, not great. Summons seem more cost effective, but cant do the damage + healing. Not a bad unit overall, worked about as I theorycrafted she would.

Ninja: Pretty useless. The damage from the 2 Wind boosted weapons was subpar. Never used it to heal other units either. Pretty disappointed on the utility of the Ninja base class for melee damage for this and other matches. They have to build glass cannony in order to be a threat from what I saw. Could be wrong though. Skillset looks interesting for a secondary.

Oracle: Nowai, my gimmicy unit didnt do a lot! Wanted to test out Dragon Rods. He had to be pretty squishy to do even the minimal damage he did. Bahamut has to proc in order for him to be a threat. Not really worth the effort.

Lancer: Not too shabby. Crappy damage to the mimes, but dealt plenty to the others. Second match was killer for him due to the entire team being able to absorb Holy. I think I'll redo him slightly.

Built to do low damage Lore to proc reactions to buff my team. Didnt work well at all. These matches are hard to really drag out any which ruins the whole premise. Potential for Speed Save/Counter Flood to backfire in a big way.

Squires: Damage wasnt bad. Shield Break really screwed them over. That and 400 damage Flares...

Samurai: Pretty sucktastic. Even with fairly high MA and MAUp her heals were only for 140.

Chemist: Some odd AI behavior when faced with Nameless Dance. He refused to charge when the dance would go off first. He also didnt use Echo Grass on himself when he had the opportunity, kinda different. At least he had the low damage and couldnt move!

Designed to Zombie enemies then Murasame spam to kill them. I screwed around with this team because I love Zombie and wanted to work it in somehow. If I had stuck to my original idea, it would have worked much better. I'll retire this team and work a couple variants on it.

Mimes: They mimed stuff!

Samurai: Even more sucktastic than my other team's Samurai. Never hit anyone for healing with the 2 Murasames. Koutestsu was crap.

Bard: Named him Immortal because I couldnt afford for him to ever die. Guess what, he died. No Ramia Harp charms :(

General thoughts on other matches.

- Charm working on both sexes seems.... odd.

- MP Restore working on any damage rather than on critical status is a great change. Doesnt really help on the glass cannon mages since they will usually die in 1 hit, but it has some really nice utility.

- CT5Holy's Quickening Mime team was just plain fun to watch. Not necessarily the most powerful one, but definitely a fun concept.

- Geomancy/Counter Flood does seem a bit powerful due to being non-evasive. I'd agree with the suggestion to make it M-Ev.

I'm sure I'm missing some random thoughts I've had in watching these. I'll submit more teams/edits to try out different abilities to see if anything might need tweaking in the next patch.

Barren · July 25, 2011, 03:44:34 pm

Dol (Blows) vs Angelus (Angelic)

DomieV (Song and Dance) vs zxpr0jk (Undeath)

I'm in a rush to go to work so i'll post more videos later on tonight

Squidgy · July 25, 2011, 08:52:53 pm

1v1 Wiznaibus can beat a Knight who eats two crystals... questionable. Wiznaibus has ultimate range, consistency, and amazing anti-sandbag going for it. Does it also need to be this powerful? Though I guess you do have to use a Dancer. Maybe it's just the annoyance of watching triple dances between turns.

Malroth · July 25, 2011, 09:05:54 pm

Quote from: Squidgy on July 25, 2011, 08:52:53 pm

1v1 Wiznaibus can beat a Knight who eats two crystals... questionable. Wiznaibus has ultimate range, consistency, and amazing anti-sandbag going for it. Does it also need to be this powerful? Though I guess you do have to use a Dancer. Maybe it's just the annoyance of watching triple dances between turns.

With the help of a damage split and a wavefist each doing 150+ to the knight and the second chrystal was eaten when the knight was at full HP so no benefit was gained and the night simply wasted a turn.

Wizanabus is pretty strong right now, perhaps if its damage was reduced by protect like other physical attacks and it had a chance of triggering counter and counterflood it wouldn't be such a one sided slaughterfest

CT5Holy · July 25, 2011, 09:28:09 pm

Squidgy: It's the annoyance of watching triple dances. Speed Save and HP Restore still trump Wiznaibus. And yeah, the Wave Fist dealt ~200, so it definitely wasn't Wiznaibus alone that took down the Knight 1v1.
Wiznaibus also kinda needs Mimes, otherwise the damage is rather easily shrugged off, and it would only act as anti-sandbag against PD/Wish/Reraise (assuming Reraised unit can't heal self).

Wiz · July 25, 2011, 09:35:49 pm

Barren forgot to put this one up.

Aquilae (Team Shish Kebab) vs Wiz (The Bachelors)

And yeah, for 3x wiznaibus, you have to dedicate at the minimum 1 mime (2 dancers) in order to make that happen. Maps also make a difference considering that up close, they're more easily targeted by the enemy team in w.e. form (Strong Melee, AOE, etc...)

I remodeled my team btw so the Time Mage is spending two turns taking off petrify + hasting the team. Check version 2 of my team in the Team Submission thread for more details <_<

Pride · July 25, 2011, 09:41:32 pm

I thought my matches against CT5 in the last arena tournament showed the wiz spamming team is good but not unbeatable.... Speed Save and HP Restore make it very difficult for those types of teams to thrive and those are some of the best reactions around. The formula is already very weak, there isn't much more of a way to limit it if it was needed.

Squidgy · July 25, 2011, 09:57:06 pm

It could get the same treatment Sage magic got: Slower CT, higher damage. I was referring to the 3x wiznaibus which happened with no Mimes alive... just really annoying to watch.

Barren · July 25, 2011, 11:13:03 pm

Thanks everyone for the feedback so far, i'll upload more tomorrow

Barren · July 26, 2011, 09:48:51 am

Squidgy (Save Me) vs LightningHax (Meow)

Squidgy (Faithless Cowards) vs True Light (Original)

More will be coming soon

Malroth · July 26, 2011, 06:56:48 pm

The Faithless cowards are Unbelieveably Brutal, They don't hit paticularly hard but they're all super fast and incredibly tanky.

Wiz · July 26, 2011, 09:01:44 pm

I agree that they're tough as nails to take down even with those 8 SPD Squires who exploited Geomancy's main property, which is that it's not faith dependent! Considering that it's magical damage, it'd make sense that it uses faith over brave.

Honestly, I think Geomancy's OP Damage-Wise and here's why. I'd argue the same for DO, but I'll hold that off for another time.

Geomancy at 10 PA and 15 MA with Magic Attack UP = 140 Damage Neutral Compat for 0 MP, 0 CT, and approximately a 1/5 chance of getting a status proc off.

E.G. Squidgy's Squire at 335 HP with 4 Move and 8 SPD

Note: Remember, geomancy does not rely on brave or faith from the user and target(s).

Cyclops at 70 Faith, Target 40 Faith, 18 MA with Magic Attack UP = 154 Damage Neutral Compat for 45 MP, 7 CT, and a chance (unknown percentage) to inflict the blind status

E.G. Vigilanti's Summoner at 236 HP with 3 Move and 8 SPD.

The fact that the damage difference (along with the other stats listed) between the two's only 14 HP is more than enough of a reason to overhaul Geomancy.

I propose that it becomes faith dependent so the damage varies and/or possibly reduce the multipliers (PA and MA) of its formula. Your guys' thoughts?

Malroth · July 26, 2011, 09:17:31 pm

Make it all elemental so absorbtion gear works on it, and lower the base accuracy to 75% before M-EV, that way its still a useful and powerful tool but isn't a gauranteed free cyclops equivilent.

Squidgy · July 26, 2011, 09:21:33 pm

I'd say Squires are the OP ones, but I am a fan of assigning most damage skills to Brave or Faith, which is why I made that team. Geomancy gets nerfed and those Squires become Female, Draw Out secondary.

But Geomancy scales in an interesting way. Without the amazing stats of Squires, I'd be using Geomancers, and get 120, with -2 PA which is still probably too much, so I'm for a Faith influence.

25% miss chance sounds way too random. Elemental gear can mess that team up, which is probably the only time I saw them lose. It's also not a Cyclops due to area/vert/ally-target reasons.

Barren · July 26, 2011, 11:25:06 pm

Well when you combine PA and MA Stats plus MA UP on a unit it makes geomancy strong, I also would think that maybe if the damage was faith based maybe the damage would be more balanced, at least though don't take away the effective damage of elemental, otherwise it'll be undesirable.

I am otherwise for the faith based elemental damage

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Arena battle videos and discussion

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