Final Fantasy Hacktics

Voldemort eat some chill pills. You said you haven't trolled since your boo hoo poor me letter to all, but right now I can see about 3 examples on the previous page alone. Chill. And don't call me delusional! I don't care if you think I'm ignorant, but now you have made me angry! I'm sane, I am not seeing things or talking to little pink squirrels! I am not delusional! Also, I rewatched the video posted way back on page one, and came to realize something that Wizzy pointed out with a video, I believe (I may be wrong here) that you guys don't just hate believing people in general, you hate the same people that we do, the fanatics. I am not a fanatic. I would never ever strap a i.e.d. on myself to kill others, or stand in front of a clinic yelling at people. Please don't think I am fanatic just because I believe in G0d and Jesus. I have nothing more to say at this time besides this because this topic has gotten way off of the subject of abortion.

QuoteYou said you haven't trolled since your boo hoo poor me letter to all, but right now I can see about 3 examples on the previous page alone. Chill. And don't call me delusional! I don't care if you think I'm ignorant, but now you have made me angry!

Name them. (PS: You have a seriously flawed understanding of what an internet troll actually is if you think I've been trolling in this thread, Jon)

QuotePlease don't think I am fanatic just because I believe in G0d and Jesus. I have nothing more to say at this time besides this because this topic has gotten way off of the subject of abortion.

I don't think you are a fanatic because you believe in g0d and jesus.

I think you are a fanatic if your religion causes you to ignore real world evidence that might contradict it.

Quote@Voldemort, I already dropped it and you're basically trolling at this point

Wtf? This is another classic example of: "Shit. Now I have spend time thinking to address his points, so I'll just call him a troll and ignore him" than to admit that someone is seriously debating your opinion. Calling someone a troll at this point in the discussion (when it's so obvious that I've seriously gotten into it, and not just in it to troll which is something I can do with 1 word or sentence instead of actual posts; See: General Strife) is even more dishonest of you.


If you think this is a troll post, you wouldn't know a serious post if it hit you in the head:

Odal:

The reasons why it is "more right" to place your trust in science rather than religion are all around you, and you can verify those reasons with your own senses, without having to trust or put faith in what anyone else tells you.

The computer you're on, the appliances in your house, the medicine in your cabinet, the (preserved) food in your fridge that won't rot in 1 week, the hospital you were born in, the game we are hacking, the microwave you use to make Ramen, the airplane you use to visit grandma, the car you drive, the celphone you own, the softwate we use to run AI tournaments.

All of these and more are the result of scientific processes, and knowledge gathered through evidence, and not people putting faith in g0d. More importantly, they are verifiable, demonstrable evidence that those processes work, and that the observations and evidence used to make them are correct. More correct and real than any fucking religion.

It's undeniable, unless you close your eyes and pretend that every technology and advantage that science has ever given us doesn't exist, or if you belong to some cult (read: religion) that somehow fooled you into thinking that Zeus gave us all of it.

Anyone who thinks science requires faith or even remotely compares it to religion is trying to argue with the very reality that surrounds them and makes their daily life possible. (Especially that morning ride in the car to work!)

Very low and intellectually dishonest of you to even try and put them on a similar level. My opinion of you is diminished.

Quote from: "Jon"I know where we came from, we were all created by G0d, and one day, at the end of our lives we will return back to him.

Also I'm still waiting on your answer to my question:

How do you know this?

You read it somewhere? Somebody told you? It says it in some holy book?

That's really honest, Jon. Way to be honest with yourself.

Thinking you have the answers to life itself is arrogant, ignorant, and delusional, Jon.

You claim to know (the answer to life and death) as fact and then you go off about being HONEST with ourselves? hahahahaha

Alright, obviously this is going to take more time again to explain why I believe what I wrote. Do I have to go about proving that there was a man born roughly between 0-3 AD in a village called Bethlehem called Jesus? If you need hard evidence on this the first step is obviously to read the Bible, then there is a book which was recently translated from old Hebrew called the Dead Sea Scrolls, go read that. It is a 100% fact that Jesus existed, but whether you consider Jesus the savior or not is your business, therefore that is not a fact. I just believe what he said. I still don't see how this is delusional. I am and was completely sane when I wrote/am writing things like your quote on me. I mean lets put it in facts then since atheists love facts over "faith and belief":

Fact: There was a man born in Bethlehem called Jesus. At the time, the King, Herod, decided to wipe out this "potential" savior by exterminating all the new born babies, but failed because they escaped to Egypt.

Not a fact: Jesus did miracles and wonderous things that no one can explain (at least not through science, therefore atheists love to say "prove it")

Fact: Jesus had 12 followers who followed him around as he preached to the masses.

Not a fact: The 12 followers believed what Jesus said and recorded everything he said (that is a fact, but the not a fact here is what Jesus said, again atheists decide not to believe his words)

Fact: Jesus was killed because the High Priest and some priests at the time were more or less jealous of Jesus and wanted to get rid of him asap.

Not a fact: Jesus rose from the dead after 3 days and reappeared to his disciples(again atheists will say "prove it")

Fact: Strangely enough, these now 11 disciples (Judas killed himself) who were mainly made up of simple fishermen suddenly decided to go out and preach, and the Catholic church was founded. Now every normal man who would have been following Jesus around would have turned tail and went home after he was crusified out of fear for his own life. Why in the world would they risk their lives in foreign countries and actually some got killed for it if they knew that this all was some sort of big joke? This is one big reason why I believe in G0d and Jesus, because the disciples did not go home to their wives and children but continued. They continued because they believed. So, now do you see Voldemort why I am not "delusional", or are you going to quote me again out of context in order to make poor attempts at making me look stupid? I was being honest with myself, and I am not delusional. You can say I am ignorant to some things, its true, I don't know everything about every religion like you pretend you do, and I am in real life actually quite humble, never arrogant, I would never ever do things like the 2 ladies in the video nor like I said blow myself up or anything else that would harm others. I want to live and act like a Christian, and all those who destroy things in G0d's name are not acting Christian.

I never said that believing that Jesus (the man) existed is delusional.

I said that claiming to know where we all come from (and where we are going) is, like you did in that post.

You said: "I KNOW" that we were created by g0d.

It is a delusional and ignorant statement to make because you (nor anyone) knows how it all started.

QuoteAlso I'm still waiting on your answer to my questions

Likewise.

QuoteI believe (I may be wrong here) that you guys don't just hate believing people in general, you hate the same people that we do, the fanatics.

Fanatics and zealots more or less perform immoral actions and contradict their own belief system in doing so, making them hypocrites and thus "Christian" or "Islamic" or whatever in name only. But! I also hate people who stick their heads in the sand and go "There's no way I'm changing my outlook, there's no point in talking to me about it" anytime their belief system is questioned -- because they're not ignorant, but stupid. And I hate stupid people.

It's not some black or white hate the fanatics, love the rest of em. It's a massive grey area. For example, a tolerant, forgiving, and moral Christian I like. Because he's tolerant, forgiving, and moral.

Fine Voldemort, I see your point. Thats fine, I just said I know (in the point of view of a believer) that we were all created by G0d, whether you accept this or not is your choice. I think it would be hard to prove because you don't see it from my point of view. If you were a believer, then maybe I could explain something like that to you but you being an atheist wanting only facts, I won't. It would be too overwhelming first to attempt to get you to believe my beliefs, and also like Philsov said "people who stick their heads in the sand" just don't want to change. I don't want to and am not willing to change (this doesn't mean that I won't try to give explanations to your questions) but I am open in a sense and tolerate your belief as an atheist, just like you probably in real life like Philsov said again, like the "tolerant, forgiving and moral" Christians and tolerate me. So you will never get an explaination to that, sorry. But if you have questions like why does G0d do this or why is that a rule (or sin, etc.) I can make an attempt like always. I hope that you weren't trying to refer me as stupid Philsov, I am probably educated to the same level as you guys. I just believe what I do and you believe what you do. Its that simple.

Quote from: "Jon"Fact: Strangely enough, these now 11 disciples (Judas killed himself) who were mainly made up of simple fishermen suddenly decided to go out and preach, and the Catholic church was founded. Now every normal man who would have been following Jesus around would have turned tail and went home after he was crusified out of fear for his own life. Why in the world would they risk their lives in foreign countries and actually some got killed for it if they knew that this all was some sort of big joke? .

Human behaviour is complex and multi-faceted. If you think that the words of a self-purported saviour must be true because people decided to follow him at great risk to themselves, I'm afraid I will have to direct your attention to the entirety of human history. There are thousands of examples of people wandering off on misguided adventures at the behest of propaganda or a charismatic leader.

QuoteI think it would be hard to prove because you don't see it from my point of view.

Of course.  When having the conclusion already made and find then evidence to support it and dismiss evidence to the contrary, it's difficult to prove anything.

QuoteI am probably educated to the same level as you guys. I just believe what I do and you believe what you do. Its that simple.

Sorry, it's not that simple.  At one point Arch and I both just believed as you do.  So stop this trite stuff of never changing, because we are examples of change.  And more importantly we're both willing to change as new evidence and arguments come to light.  You and I are nothing alike.

QuoteBut if you have questions like why does G0d do this or why is that a rule (or sin, etc.) I can make an attempt like always.

I was about to wind up on your "I believe because some other people believed" statement, but this is more fitting I suppose.

How does Jesus' existence prove an all-powerful, all-knowing, and benevolent creator?  Why was Jesus' existence necessary?

ps - wb

QuoteHow does Jesus' existence prove an all-powerful, all-knowing, and benevolent creator? Why was Jesus' existence necessary?

Well if you once were a believer, you probably already know the answer to this question. First because of the predictions. The whole old testament was filled with them. If G0d didn't send a messiah as he promised, then already something would be totally off. Second, the people at the time were failing to see and understand G0d's message and true intention. A hand full of priests and high priests would more or less rule the people, and believed that they more or less were the ones who decided who goes to heaven and who doesn't, who was good and who was evil, who lived and who would (like Jesus) die. Very similar to those people out on the streets shouting, right? His existence was necessary to point us all back onto the correct path, that life is a search for enlightenment and salvation, not to shout at others and make judgemental (snap) decisions. Does this answer your question?

Also, thanks, I feel back. I discovered that my enjoyment on this site comes not from creating sprites but from helping others by making tutorials. Maybe I should stick to that...

Is it possible that someone read the Old Testament and decided to position himself as a messiah? I mean, I could believe that, or I could believe that some space wizard sent a guy to die on a cross, which seems like an abstract solution to the problems of the time.

Quote from: "Jon"Well if you once were a believer, you probably already know the answer to this question. First because of the predictions. The whole old testament was filled with them. If G0d didn't send a messiah as he promised, then already something would be totally off.

Expect Jews still believe that g[s:2egoxhab][/s:2egoxhab]od hasn't sent a messiah yet and are still waiting.

QuoteWell if you once were a believer, you probably already know the answer to this question.

Its one of the reasons I'm not, actually, but I'll expand on that in a moment.

QuoteSecond, the people at the time were failing to see and understand G0d's message and true intention.

Possibly, but a worldwide flood can do that as well  In fact....

Quote"And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them" (Genesis 6:5-7, KJV,

This is not the result of an all-knowing Deity.  It just flat out is not.

QuoteFirst because of the predictions. The whole old testament was filled with them. If G0d didn't send a messiah as he promised, then already something would be totally off.

But why was a messiah necessary?  It wasn't.  An all powerful deity can just snap his mystical fingers and fix everything.  Instantly.  No need to cause your own child to die, quite horribly, at the hand of your other creations in order to fulfill your own prophecy and absolve sin, which you also created.   If that's "just how people are" its because we were made that way.  These are the actions of neither an all-powerful nor a benevolent being.

Again -- evidence to conclusion.

Jon, you keep making the mistake of telling us atheists "that we will continue to BELIEVE what we want"-

Remember, atheism isn't a belief system. We hold no religious beliefs. We LACK them. (We reject religious beliefs, usually on the grounds that there is no evidence to support them.)

Just a reminder, because you keep making the same mistake.

Quote from: "Voldemort"Jon, you keep making the mistake of telling us atheists "that we will continue to BELIEVE what we want"-

Remember, atheism isn't a belief system. We hold no religious beliefs. We LACK them. (We reject religious beliefs, usually on the grounds that there is no evidence to support them.)

Just a reminder, because you keep making the same mistake.

Nope Arch.

Quote from: "Wikipedia"Atheism, in a broad sense, is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.

As you said Atheism isn't belief system, but there are religions that don't believe in god.
Example Jainism doesn't have god so all believers of it are Atheists.
Don't say that Atheists hold no religious beliefs, cause some do.

Ps. Jon got Banhammered AGAIN!

jon got pwned by the hammer

Shade: We're saying exactly the same thing.

Quote from: "Voldemort"Shade: We're saying exactly the same thing.

Almost I am saying that atheists do hold religious beliefs, unless they have to do something with deity(usually god or something).

Oh ok. I was trying to say that the atheists in this thread hold no belief in religious claims, whether they have to do with dieties not.

Quote from: "Voldemort"Oh ok. I was trying to say that the atheists in this thread hold no belief in religious claims, whether they have to do with dieties or not.

oh ok.

Isn't it stupid that Jon is getting pwaned by Zodiac too much so he can't post, again.

he is perma'd shade gone forever