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ff5 style swordmage class

Started by Lockeadon, March 05, 2012, 02:19:56 am

Lockeadon

if you remember this class let you cast magic you knew onto your sword and then it would cast that magic after normal attacks until the end of the battle or until over-ridden by a different spell... is it possible to make such a class for this game and if so how?

The Damned

(Hunh. I almost find it odd that no one has answered this even though it's only been around less than 24 hours. Probably just me though, especially since I keep distracting myself from actual work....)

I'm guessing you mean the Mystic Knight/Sorceror class, yes? I'm guessing that you are, but even if you aren't, I would say that you probably couldn't (easily) make it so that the sword (or whatever weapon) would "stay" enchanted. I'm not going to say it's out-and-out impossible, especially since I've yet to mess around with coding and ASM, but I'd imagine it would be rather difficult.

The best you could probably do would probably involve having to overwrite quite a few status effects beyond the three expendables ones of the blank above Crystal, Dark/Evil Looking and, arguably, Wall. You then would have to have the effects become statuses with 0 (read: infinite) duration that existed solely for calling up the spell you're trying to emulate, at least for the spells you're trying to emulate that are direct damage spells rather than a status-inflicting spell. Even if that worked, it would likely eat up a lot of room since beyond the basic Fire, Ice and Lightning spellswords that Mystic Knight/Sorceror had, there was also Bio, Flare, Holy, Osmose and Drain at the very least when it comes to non-repeating (as in tiered, i.e. Fire, Fira/Fire 2, Firaga/Fire 3), direct damage spells. As such, you'd probably have to sacrifice at least three to five more statuses to just to hit the bare minimum depending on how much you want to emulate Mystic Knight.

As such, it doesn't seem worth it, personally, even if you could.

TL;DR - You probably could, but it would take a lot more effort than it would likely be worth. You're better off just going the Beowulf-route and having it be an instant-MP-magical-hit affair, maybe even a weapon-restricted one, rather than trying to doing anything "enchanted". It's also more fair to the magical classes that way since they have enough disadvantages in most instances, at least if we're talking about this being the only change to an instance of what would otherwise be Vanilla/unchanged FFT.
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

philsov

The easy route is making elemental-based swordskills and applying the Weapon Strike fix ASM.  You can have different formulae or stick to a few and just juggle the power boost/MP/additional status effects and such.
Just another rebel plotting rebellion.

Lockeadon

March 06, 2012, 04:33:18 am #3 Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 05:58:34 am by Lockeadon
thanks guys... this raises the question of how to override status effects? and did the original mystic knights hit the element with their sword and then cast the spell or just the spell? and also shouldn't weapon power + ma be the damage before element?

Tea

for the original magic sword:

******************
6.8.6) MAGIC SWORD
******************

Magic Sword effects stack with other attacking commands like BuildUp, Counter,
Aim, Jump, X-Fight, Capture and Sword Dance.

Magic Sword Element overrides current Attack Element
Status effect Magic swords have no Attack Element and will also override
current Attack Element (e.g. Casting Mute Magic Sword with the Air Lancet will
make it lose its Air Attack Element).

Status effect Magic swords (Venom, Mute, Sleep and Break) will successfully
inflict their statuses as long as you successfully hit the target, even if you
only do zero damage (use Aim, X-Fight, Jump or Sword Dance to guarantee a
hit).

For Elemental Magic swords, if the target is not weak vs. specified element
then Magic Sword has no effect on the damage you do to the target.

If the target is Weak vs. Magic Sword Element:

FIRE, ICE, BOLT, VENOM
Defense = 0
Attack = Attack * 2

FIRE2, ICE2, BOLT2
Defense = 0
Attack = Attack * 3

FIRE3, ICE3, BOLT3, BIO, HOLY
Target is killed instantly.
Ignores Dead immunity.
Does not work against Heavy type creatures.
For Heavy types:
Defense = 0
Attack = Attack * 4

If the target is immune to Magic Sword element, attacks will always miss, even
with Aim, X-Fight, Jump or Sword Dance.

If the target absorbs the Magic Sword element, target will be healed instead
of damaged.  Healing amount = normal damage formula, but Defense = 0.

Other Magic Swords:

DRAIN
Use normal formula, caster is healed by the amount of damage inflicted.  If
the target is Undead, target is healed and caster is damaged.

PSYCHE
Use normal formula, if Damage > 0, then drain 1/4 of target's current MP.  If
the target is Undead, then target gains MP and caster loses MP.

FLARE
Damage = (Attack + (0..(Attack/8)) + 100)
Damage = Damage - (Defense/4)
Danage = Damage * M

note: M is the modifier that takes into account critical, row, that sort of thing. It doesn't really matter much. Basically Flare sword adds 100+ attack and ignores defence mostly.


Source: http://www.gamefaqs.com/snes/588331-final-fantasy-v/faqs/30040

The Damned

(Hunh, I was never aware that the status effects took place even if you inflicted 0 damage.)

Yeah, silly me. You'd have to also make sure that you had the Weapon Strike fix ASM, though you could probably make the statuses override them without doing that; no point in making it more difficult on yourself, though.

With regards to override status effects: You're going to have learn to code.  That or ask someone, who will probably be doing something else, to code it for you, which in this case seems...unlikely given how complex it's likely to be for such a small payoff, i.e. class-exclusive status effects. As such, you're probably going to have to do it yourself.

If it was just a status that solely interacted with other statuses and maybe restricted Reactions or CT or something, then you could just toggle stuff around in FFTPatcher for the most part. But otherwise changing status, especially for such complex, specific reasons, is something requires coding.

With regards to Attacking: I'm pretty sure it was a sword/weapon-hit back by magic rather than outright magic, especially since there's no need to obviate spellcasters even more. Still, it's been a while since I've played FFV....

With regards to WP + MA being before element: Not really sure what you're asking, but I don't think so, even before what Tea posted. Then again, how it actually gets converted is up to you...if you're willing to do the work (or capable of getting at least one person who is willing to do it for you).
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"


Lockeadon

so it should be like (PA + WP)*Y if its weak to the element else (PA+WP) for damaging ones... and status ones would be um... (PA + WP) 100% status... not that i know how to code for element check lol

Lockeadon

or more like standard weapon formula times y instead

Tea

I don't think you can check elemental affinity and have your formula change based on that. Not without a lot of ASM, which I don't suppose you can do in a timely manner. Thus, my suggestion:
FIRE, ICE, BOLT: PA*WP. Elemental weakness makes it *2 damage, no?
HOLY: PA*WP+Y. Holy is the strongest magical attack after all.
DRAIN/PSYCHE: like them dark knight skills. Too bad you can't heal for less than you damage tho. Might be good to not include Psyche.
FLARE: PA*WP+Y, non-elemental, more than Holy, since that has weakness-potential.
VENOM: I don't think there is damage and 100% status formula, is there?
Mute, Sleep and Break: 100%. But lots of MP. Maybe 25% for break, since usually petrify is a fate worse than death.

If possible, and somehow I think it is, disable attack for the swordmage, and have every skill require different amounts of MP. If impossible, give them special weapons with normal WP, but a nonsense formula (like 100% status, and no status affliction).

Eternal

The (PA*WP)+X skills all have 100% status, so you could use that for Poison. A lot of these are reminiscent of Celdia's Enchanter job class. Check out her Master Guide for CCP for check it out. :)
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
"You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
  • Discord username: eternal248#1817

The Damned

March 07, 2012, 11:00:15 pm #11 Last Edit: March 08, 2012, 12:45:59 am by The Damned
(You really shouldn't post consecutively if no one has responded yet, Lockeadon, at least on the same day, much less rapidly and within the span of an hour. Just use edit please.)

Yeah, Celdia's Enchanter basically revolves around the status part of this, so looking at what she did could be useful even if it's not historically like Mystic Knight beyond that, especially since Enchanters don't deal with elements at all last I checked.

(MYSTIC EDIT: Having checked immediately after typing this, I see/remember now that she has/had a Mystic Knight class as well that deals almost solely with elements, at least when it comes to attacks. So you'd do well to look at that class as well since the "classic" Mystic Knight is a combination of CCP's Mystic Knight and Enchanter; alternately, it would perhaps be more accurate to say that CCP's Mystic Knight and Enchanter are FFV's Mystic Knight split into two separate classes that focus, respectively, on its elemental and status complements.)

Since you seem adamant about this, I have to ask: Is this supposed to be a generic class replacement? Or a special character's (whether PC or NPC, ally or enemy) class?

I ask partly out of curiosity, but mostly because there are things that are appropriate for special character's class that would be highly overpowered in a generic's class. For instance, IMO the Break Sword arguably existing at all for generics would be a rather bad idea, even at 25%. Sleep is also rather sketchy, at least depending on duration of Sleep status.

Quote from: Tea on March 07, 2012, 07:30:54 pmVENOM: I don't think there is damage and 100% status formula, is there?


Formula 2D does this as Eternal pointed out, though since it's PA*WP, as useful as it arguably has its problems; that it doesn't use MA also potentially hurts in this instance, especially since the only MA-using formula with 100% and damage is the Faith-based one used for Death (read: formula 0E). However, Pride made an ASM a while ago that allows you to make it a percentage of what it would otherwise normally be; it should be noted that ASM affects everything that uses 2D flatly, though.

There's also formula 47--used for Blood Suck--but that has arguably worse problems of being based on maximum HP percentage, the whole "100% drain" issue that I am now reminded of still needs to be "fixed" and the fact that it's completely independent of any stat check/use.
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

Eternal

There's also an ASM (somewhere) that turns ((PA*WP)+X) into ((MA*WP)+X) if you're interested in that. CCP uses that for Swordskills.
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
"You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
  • Discord username: eternal248#1817

Glain

I did an MA * (WP+Y) in my ASM thread... not sure if anyone did something similar. Hopefully we can get a bunch of these hacks together for the next FFTP release.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown

Lockeadon

March 09, 2012, 03:07:07 am #14 Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 03:13:07 am by Lockeadon
thanks everyone and i forgot about edit until it was already double post... and how is the new version of fftp coming?
and this is a special character; if i can get it working anyway... im trying to bring all the missing classes in in some form... i'm working on a blue mage right now as well but thats more or less simple to do... ill prolly be asking about doublecast when i get this sorted...