Final Fantasy Tactics: Redesign Main Discussion [Newest: HUGE GEAR EDITS!]

[RavenOfRazgriz]

True.  I'll need to mess with those bits to get everything sorted properly, but it won't be a big deal.

[RandMuadDib]

well if you can figure out how to get a ranged weapon able to target those first two squares, please let me know.

[RavenOfRazgriz]

I will, I need to muddle about with things for a while when I get around to inputting everything again.

[The Damned]

(Well, it's good to see I didn't miss much while I was gone, at least on this sub-forum.)

"Nice new Axes you have there," he said in a tone that implied he was going to possibly steal them. Wands are also rather a neat idea that I'm guessing are going to completely replace Rods, correct?

Also, a rather handy solution to fixing the problem that comes up with WP*WP, though X as 20 seems a bit...much. You know your own system better than I do, though, especially since you've actually ran the numbers unlike me.

Outside of that, not much to say given that most everything else is a reworking of vanilla items (if it changed at all). I can't say that I'm a fan of the 100% triggers, though I can see why you'd go with that over 25% chance of triggering; we'll see how it works out (and if I'll steal it later if it does).

[RavenOfRazgriz]

Wands replace Rods/Staves as the primary mage weapon for buffing, giving them the range they need to use their Attack Command sometimes without looking like huge derps.

I used * 20 for Guns because it means all the guns in the end have low WP like everything else - meaning they don't become "I'm uber-awesome at Breaking shit!" monsters like they would normally and just fall roughly in line with everything else.

The 100% Procs is a pretty prominent feature of this patch, as I'm pretty sure I said a long time ago.  The weapons, yeah, I retrofitted everything I could from Vanilla.  There's no reason to redo what's already done.  I wouldn't say its as extreme as you say though, since even if I kept names, the weapons themselves are slowing going farther and farther away from Vanilla than I originally intended.

[The Damned]

(Ah, right. I remember you telling me this a while before we both kind of ninja-vanished.)

*yawns again*

Oh, I didn't mean it as a bad thing or anything. There's certainly no reason to be as masochistic like me and try to remake the equipment wheel, especially since you remade the job one already.

What I was trying to get at (and forgive me if in my tired state I didn't get this across) is that the addition of 100% triggers is such a subtle shift in power for most of the old weapons that I'll have to end up seeing it in action for a while before I can say anything about it. I mean, there are a few ones that make me think they're maybe going to be OP already like Zorlin Shape, Short Edge, Hex Wand and Restored Shotgun, but I'm content to wait and see as I've said before. (As long as I'm admitting things, though, I'll admit that I'm surprised the Restored Shotgun isn't a rare item.)

As for Wands, okay, thanks for the confirmation. I don't know why I thought you had Staves up too. I suppose I was thinking of my own given that I was starting to go over my own equipment yesterday for Reliquarian. So that's good to know.

As for Guns, ah, right, I completely forgot that equipment breaks are still going off WP even here. I still think that 20 is a bit much, if only because Restored Shotgun (even with its limited range) and being unable to be evaded, but we'll see.

Regardless, good to see you're back on this.

[RavenOfRazgriz]

I see.  I'm honestly not putting much effort into *new* Rare Items currently unless I have a super idea like with Moonlight.  I'm far more concerned with having a solid pool of buyable goods first.

I used to use Staves instead of Wands, that's probably where the confusion lies.

If Restored Shotgun is too high, I can always just lower the WP.

I'm glad to be working on it again, but I have very few Crossbow/Longbow ideas currently so I'm hitting a bit of a hiccup.

[The Damned]

(Nah. I think I was thinking of my own Staves because I had to fix Oaken Staff and Cursebreaker like right before I posted that.)

Yeah, it's not like Restored Shogun being "too high" can't be fixed easily.

Eh, you can just use some of my Crossbow or Longbow ideas if you want, especially since you can probably modify them into something useful with you having actually worked the numbers. You have my equipment list, even if I've changed a few things since then and am still in the process of changing more. For instance, Auto-Crossbow is basically just a gun now since I needed the space where its iffy "proc" was. (I also realized that Greatbows, if anything, probably need less weapon power or less range so as to not obviate Longbows, but that's neither here nor there.)

Speaking of Moonlight, I'm guess that isn't going to be what's typical of spellblades, correct? It's impossible to tell when that's the only one that's there. So...yeah?

*goes back to fixing up typos and filing books*

[RavenOfRazgriz]

I may or may not have it, I'll need to do inventory on the stuff I salvaged when I had to factory reset again.

No, it's not.   Right now Spellswords honestly don't have a particular "form" to them.  They're easily my least-developed weapon type.

[The Damned]

(I see.)

Ah, right. I can send you those particular weapons again since they'll actually fit in a PM if you want.

[RavenOfRazgriz]

I found it, it's okay.  Working on updating post now.

EDIT: Done, Crossbows and Longbows up, though still very much WIP-like.

[RavenOfRazgriz]

More updates, moved the Weapon into to the opening post under the Equipment tag, added info for Polearms and Poles, removed Ashura and Kotetsu.

Currently going for a 6 common : 2 rare weapon ratio on everything that only appears in Chapter 2 or onward, and something like 7 : 2 or 8 : 2 for the things that appear in all four chapters.  There's obviously going to be exceptions but it seems like a nice starting ratio to aim for.

[The Damned]

(No! A 8:2 ratio is bad! [/contrariness])

Far more seriously, since you're mentioned weapons that appear in Chapter 2 and given the weapons you've posted so far, outside of mechanics I'm guessing you're not going to be changing much else outside of maybe rarity with that spreadsheet you made. Is that correct? (I'm talking about things like where weapons are located and when they open when I ask this.)

Anyway, looking over the weapons you've posted after Crossbows, I've some comments on them--this includes Crossbows:

1. I'm rather surprised that you're still having Crossbows use PA considering your rather elegant solution to the gun "problem". It's not a huge deal and, admittedly, I still need to research crossbows (and general weapon design) more than I have.

2. Not sure how I feel about Gastrephetes having 100% Knockback, even if it fits. At least with the other abilities that had high/100% knockback, pretty much all of them took MP and/or has less range IIRC. (I might not be remembering correctly, though.) However, like I said when I spoke of my weariness with those abilities and I've said with many things, I am content to wait and see how it works out. (Crossbows otherwise seem fine, even if it's a bit weird to see the name "Salem" on something despite vaguely knowing its history.)

3. Silver Bow seems a bit weak, at least considering that it's special unlike Long Bow and thus shouldn't be getting obviated by Yoichi Bow. What are you reducing elemental weaknesses to again? 1.5? 1.25? (Longbows otherwise seem fine.)

4. Looks like half of our lances/polearms are rather similar. I quite like your version of Holy Lance, though. Only other thing to say about Polearms at present is that I really think that Javelin II needs another name besides just "Javelin" in-game. Having to tell it and the greater Escutcheon apart from the non-rare versions by looks and WP was always annoying to me. (That's not pressing though, obviously.)

5. Poles appear to be the area of greatest dislike at present, which even then isn't all that "large", especially given that I know how difficult it is to try to make useful looking poles with things like Iron Fan and Octagon Rod to design for; the weaknesses for Heptagon Rod seems a bit...much, but we'll see. As such, all I'm going to say for now is that it seems extremely weird to have a common weapon carved out of Yggdrasil, even as big as I understand that tree to be. Not a big deal, but, yeah, the designs for poles is getting the least positive response from me at present.


Good luck with Gauntlets.

[RavenOfRazgriz]

@Crossbows:  Keeping the PA*WP aspect because otherwise, they're just evadable pistols, and I may as well either make them Guns or remove the Revolver.  There would be no PA counterpart to Wand either if I used my Gun solution on them.  As for the 100% Knockback stuff, they're mostly Weapon Range.  The point of pretty much all my weapons is that they double as a no-MP cost form of some skill.  I actually live near the Salem in question.

@ Silver Bow:  It's mostly an early weapon I had designed to make the Undead easier for the player to deal with early game.  It's not really a "finished" weapon by any means, though.  I actually need a 7th Longbow, come to think of it.  (I also need a worthwhile Sword-type weapon I can replace Iron Sword with.)  Elemental Weakness is 1.25x now.

@ Javelin II:  I don't really like calling it "Javelin II" because that sounds incredibly tacky.  I actually like calling it "Javelin" from a flavor perspective, as it implies its a very similar weapon of no actual name that the untrained eye would mistake for a Javelin.

@ Poles: The weakness on Heptagon Pole is the same weakness every other Strengthen: Element has.  (Every time you see Strengthen: X, you at least should see a Weak: X to match it.)  Musk Pole is "said to be" carved from Yggdrasil.  Not everything "said to be" is true, you know.  You need a little... blind Faith to believe it.  (See what I did there?)  I probably need a generic MA +2 Pole, but I was wary on doing that on what's supposed to be a higher-end WP MA-based weapon.

@ Gauntlets: I have a few ideas for them, I'm unsure how many there will actually be though.

[The Damned]

(No! I can't do quick responses!

*panics*)

@Crossbows: Fair enough. I guess you can't really do that when you're actually keeping guns around AND available to generics. Not sure where you're going with the Wand with comparison given that it makes "sense" for those to not really care about WP anyway but rather MA, but a weapon not caring about WP seems like it would break things--this is why so many other people's Tonberrians bother the hell out of me, but I hate Shock formulas anyway and this isn't the place.

@Silver Bow: I see. Nice to see that I remembered the weakness rate, especially since it's something else I'm ripping it off you. :p

@Javelin II: Uh, I wasn't saying you should call it Javelin II "in-game". That's indeed even worse than just Javelin in-game. I was merely referring to it as Javelin II to specify which Javelin I meant. That you got confused kinda of proves my point, though you do have a somewhat valid point about in-game people perhaps confusing it. Still, that doesn't mean it can't have a slightly different name in-game that makes it easy to tell them apart.

@Poles: I honestly hadn't noticed that with the strengthen thing, especially since Ashura was devoid it before you nixed it. I'll keep that in mind. As for Musk Pole, I know it's "said to be", but you think that someone would, you know, check if it was such a common weapon. Just saying. It's not a huge deal anyway, just something I found odd like the Salem naming, though in this case moreso because I'm trying to remember where the hell Yggdrasil would be on the map for people to have such access to it.

@Gauntlets: You can always hit me up for ideas since there's only so much you can rip off of Tifa and Devil May Cry; well, actually, you could probably rip-off enough just from those.... With that said, what abilities even use Gauntlets now that I think about it? I vaguely remember it being conspicuously absent from ability descriptions.


Have at you!

[RavenOfRazgriz]

@Crossbows: Wands use MA*WP and have the 3-4 range that Crossbows do.  In terms of Range and Formula, they're direct opposites.  If you hate the idea of weapons that don't use their WP when they attack, you already hate Gauntlets, then.

@Silver Bow: Everyone seems to rip everything off me.  I may not have the clothes off my back for much longer at this rate...

@Javelin(II): I knew what you meant, but I'm saying the confusion is part of its flavor.  I actually liked that when I first learned it existed, it was incredibly clever on their part to rig Javelin/Escutcheon and their Move-Find Item setups the way they did.

@Poles: If Ashura didn't have it, it should've.  I may have also forgot it on Kiki-ichimonji.  I'll need to check later.  I'm not saying people wouldn't check, but I'm imagining dissenters would be shadily executed by the Church or something.  I might rewrite it later, I mostly used that description for the pun with the proc.

@Gauntlets: I already have ideas for some, I more mean I may not have many simply because they're not truly a "weapon."  Rather, they're an item meant to allow Monks access to my Weapon Range PA*WP Skills I'm using so many of as well as general buff/customization access.  They actually still use the Fist formula.

[RavenOfRazgriz]

Today's update is small.  A draft for my initial 4 Gauntlets concepts and a sixth Axe.  I'll probably make a secondary update later tonight when my creative juices are flowing more, but I had some ideas so I wanted to get those ones up before I forgot them.

[The Damned]

(For the record, I don't "hate" weapons that don't use WP [unless they're using the Shock formula]. It's just that a weapon not using WP when that's what WP was made for is just weird.)

I should have suspected that you would just use the Bracer designs for the Gauntlets. It's simple and works...I guess. I'll still need to see if they're worth it as a whole. Or they only getting used for Monks? I'm still at least a little confused on this matter.

Beyond that, as much as like seeing the continued theme of Axes destroying everything in their paths, giving a weapon that does direct damage an aspect of 100% Cancel: Transparent is useless. Unless, of course, you're making it so that Transparent is no longer canceled by damage, in which case it becomes something of a ridiculously beneficial status with its currently infinite CT.

As such, I'm guessing this isn't the case. (Truthfully, on the whole, canceling Defending 100% of the time with direct damage on a weapon is a bit weak as well, though not necessarily as worthless.)

[RavenOfRazgriz]

@WP: I know.  I just except Gauntlets because they're basically a glove and you're still punching a guy in the face.  Like I said, the WP is mostly a quick-fix to make Monks actually have access to skills and such like everyone else does.

@Usability: Currently Squires and Monks only.  I'm looking into a few more classes possibly but they'd be punching people barehanded without innate Martial Arts, so the Gauntlets' main use would be for their buffs.  Its why I'm not worried about having the full set of 6 buyable Gauntlets, unlike other weapons, because they're mostly meant to fill a gap.

@Transparent/Defending: The idea I'm currently toying with is to make it only dispel when you Act, and buff both Accuracy and Evasion by 25%.  The CT would be infinite but it would still be a one-time-use Status.  As for Defending, it's still a 100% Cancel: Abandon, allowing allies to get their hits in easier.  This helps especially well with the few other minor buffs I tossed Defending's way.  The main use, regardless of both of these though, is to obviously Cancel: Float, considering the kind of amazingly gravy-good status I've turned Float into.  As in, I'm considering removing the Feather Boots kind of deal.

[RavenOfRazgriz]

Added Shields, draft 1.

I've been looking them over again and I already hate everything that's below the Elemental Shields but I have no ideas on what to replace them with.  I was thinking of ripping Venetian Shield and Kaiser Plate out to have more common shields then using the Kaiser Plate concept on some buyable ones, but eh.  I have this odd OCD about having all my counterpart items buyable at the same time, so too many counterpart Shields won't pan out well considering I want a rough scaling of 3 Shields per chapter.  (Sans Chapter 1, which I'm fine with only have Escutcheon available during.)

Ideas from anyone in any way to make more Shields that don't suck, greatly appreciated.

Okay, added a few more Daggers, relegating Zorlin Shape to rare.  Made a simple fix for Iron Sword to be a proper Chapter 2+ weapon.  Reorganized Axes so that Crasher is now the strongest at 11 WP.  Added a Wand, so they should be all set.  Fixed a few typos as well.  I think I'm more or less ready to get into Shields.  Weapons aren't done yet, I'd like to get some more Elemental related stuff mixed in and such, but I think they're coming along well enough now that I can let them rest a bit.