FFT Arena: Item Discussion Thread

[PX_Timefordeath]

NOTE: Discuss Items ONLY
NOTE2: Cancel: Dead also includes Cancel: Death Sentence


Master Guide

[FFMaster]

I think we can make Ice/Lightning Bow usable, pumping up their WP's to Windslash, and dropping the Ice/Bolt 2 proc.

[philsov]

Too much banned or redundant stuff.

Weapons:  At least 3 weapons in the major classes should be viable, preferably following a scheme of "best WP, no procs", "moderate WP, proc", and "moderate WP, boosted W.Ev".  Or the strongest can have reduced W.Ev.  But, I do like the accross the board reductions.  Either way....

spoiler

Daggers - as a whole, suck right now.  Any class that can equip daggers can also equip guns or ninja swords, either of which are the blatantly better choice.

Ninja Swords:  right now we've got Iga/Koga combo (effective WP of 11), Spell Edge with 10 WP and a proc, so perhaps now Ninja Edge with 9 WP and W.Ev. of 20?  With dual wield this'll really make the ninja hard to hit so 9 WP is reasonable.

Swords:  Strongest WP also has a DM proc?  But looking at the sword users, theres knights, geos, and squires -- the former of which also gets kswords and the latter get axes.  I think 9 WP is too low for rune blade and it bones geos too much, but past that Slasher or Kswords > all swords, so it's really in the same boat as daggers as being a completely dead weapon class atm save rune blade for the MA boost.

Katana: at least make Muramasa better -somehow-.  Move the proc, change the W.Ev, something.

Axes: Giant axe could use a WP boost -- with boost: earth its effective WP is 8, if you're lucky, and a 25% boost to certain elemental tiles is hardly worth using over Rune Blade.  

Rods:  Make wizard rod give only 1 MA.  This'll turn ele rod + magic gauntlet into a better combo than the ubiquitous wizard rod + 108 gems, and forces more choices on the player side.  

Staves:  I actually like their spread.

Flails:  Flame Whip's the only one worth a damn.  You can stat boost on morning star (flails themselves are stat neutral anyways) and include a nasty status proc (poison, blind, silence, don't move -- seperate) on scorpion tail (which would be 8 WP).  Also could use a WP boost, since normal guns are outputing more damage from a better range, W.Ev be damned.

Gun:  Swap the stat boost on romanda and mythril guns.  Boost mythril back to 8 because 49 damage is simply weaksauce, even if its unevadable and at 6 range.  

Xbow:  Crossbow and bowgun suck, but theres plenty of good options, so, whatever

Longbow: Make the ultimatus bow 5 range with lesser WP, and then make ice/lit bow WP 7.

Harps:  Suggest  0 W.Ev for bloody strings through.

books:  so the 25% proc triggers a... 70% chance ability?  Kinda lame.  Make the procs something strong and 100%, at least.

Spear:  Partisan proc, while cool, won't see much use given how little the AI actually (and effectively) uses protect.  Suggest expanded that proc to also cancel defending, shell, and regen.  Mythril spear with MA boost seems rather out of place, but all in all decent spread.

Sticks:  Fine.  Would like to see some W.Ev variance, though.

Bags:  Fine

Clothes: seem borderline OP, I can't wait to revive gretchen

Thrown:  Are unaffected by boost:elements, but I suppose it helps curve off the weakness exploitation bit.

Shields:  Good spread -- suggest adding cancels to diamond and platina though.

Heavy Headgear:  Bring up the bottom, and shift over the sleep cancelation to a helmet that also doesn't have the highest health boost.

Light Headgear:  Good spread, I'm happy to see the speed boosters taking a major HP hit.

Heavy armor:  See heavy headgear.  Needs more options, even if they're shotgunned onto the spread.

Light Armor:  Secret cloths are oddly redundant, and I suppose y'all decided to keep the weak+absorb combos around?

Robes:  Boost silk robe to have good health with moderate MP (something like 75/25) with no other perks.

Accessories - ALL accessories should be viable.  

spoiler

Crap List:
Power Wrist is useless
Genji is banned
Cursed Ring is banned
Small, Leather Mantle are useless
4x perfumes are banned.

Suggestions:
Battle Boots provide no P.Ev
Power Wrist provides P.Ev
Genji Gauntlet required in order to use Muramasa and Masamune
Cursed Ring: Always: undead.  Immune: crystalization and treasure status
Redo the mantles -- the 30 net evasion as seen in the latter 4 is a good scheme; stick with it!  Wizard Mantle at this point is too good, by relation.

Dracula: 0/30
Small: 5/25
Wizard: 10/20
Elf: 15/15
Leather: 20/10
Feather: 25/5
Vanish: 30/0

No stat boosting, no initial status -- just evasion.

As for the perfumes...

Smelling Salts - Initial: Reraise; Cancel: Sleep (very similar to angel ring, but eh.  There -needs- to be an anti-sleep accessory.)
Salty Rage - Always: Berserk.  Hulk Smash!
??? - +1 PA, initial:protect
??? - +1 MA, initial:shell  (initial protective status is rather balanced, imo: you frontload the buff and are really good at the start for being completely useless after the first 3 rounds)

Additionally all genji gear can follow the suit of the genji gloves and be the pre-reqs to one or several draw outs.  Like, in order to draw out Chiri (MA*10) you need to be in the full genji set, which doesn't really excel in health or stat boosts.  You can also utilize the ability requirement hack to enable stronger and otherwise banned abilities only when equip with the odd piece of weak weapon/armor/set which is win-win as it allows for more combinations on both the ability and item front.

[CT5Holy]

On a similar note, we could also bump up Coral Sword's WP.
Power Wrist is outclassed by both Bracer and Battle Boots. Heck, Battle Boots is a bit too good. Extra move, power, and survivability(ish). Maybe give the Boots' 15% evasion to Power Wrist?
We could make one of the useless shields Absorb: Earth, Weak: Lightning to fit that 'cycle.'
Flash Hat having less HP than Cachusha and Barette feels weird. Understandable, just feels weird.
Why is Cursed Ring banned? Being Undead is a pretty harsh drawback...
For some of the currently banned armors, you could just give them crap HP, like Thief Hat/Flash Hat.

[FFMaster]

here is a a test for Ninja Swords.



I need opinions.

[The Damned]

Spell Edge finally doesn't inflict Don't Act anymore? Thank you.

Aside from that, the only thing that jumps out is Hidden Knife and Sasuke Knife, both because of the +1 Speed and because it seems like Hidden Knife almost completely obviates Sasuke Knife.

IMO, if you're going to make it so that Sasuke Knife can't be used with Two Swords or Two Hands (though that wouldn't prevent it from being forced Two Hands if so desired), then you can give it a useful proc (say 25% Add: Slow or even 25% Add: Don't Act) and maybe drop the WP a tad.

[FFMaster]

Hidden Knife is used for Throw Type Ninjas. Ninja is also losing innate 2 swords if this happens. That way, it doesn't stack with Attack UP or Concentrate.

here are some proposed changes to Longbows and Knives.




EDIT: Swords

[The Damned]

Oh, I wasn't aware about that with regards to Two Swords. That's good, then, because I was going to say that Ninjas are pretty much always used with Concentrate in these things.

The Longbows seem fine, though Mythril Bow seems a bit weak. Not really sure what to suggest since I pretty much got rid of it by completely changing it.

Not sure how I feel about the +1 Moves on Knives, though ironically that's more because it's likely to be source of weakness than strength as with +1 Speed. I can't think of anything better to suggest at the moment, so I'm fine.

Two Swording Ancient Sword seems like it'd be kind of OP since Petrify is even more powerful than Don't Act, which took people out all the time. I'm not sure whether just not allowing it to be Duel Wielded would solve the problem or whether you would need to change status proc to something else entirely, though I kind of lean towards the latter.

[FFMaster]

Blood Sword is now 10 WP
Ancient Sword is now 12 WP and cannot be dual wielded or 2 handed

[The Damned]

The Katana look fine, though Bizen Boat may end up being OP'd; I doubt it though, since it isn't Difference on command. Speaking of 100% things, is Murasama 100% either of those statuses or just the standard 25%? Also, are Katana (and KnightSwords) still based on Brave/Fury?

...I feel odd being the only person to respond to this.

[FFMaster]

My bad. Muramasa is 25% for one of the status. Katana are still Brave based, but Knight Swords are retaining their 1.3 formula, which is just PA*WP

[The Damned]

No need to apologize. Just wanted to make sure.

With regards to Katanas still using Brave, isn't that a bit unfair to them considering that Brave is more of a double-edged sword now AND Knight Swords tends to be more powerful as is because they're exclusive to just Knights? I thought that was an ASM to get rid of the Brave in Katanas, though I may be thinking of the wrong thing....

[FFMaster]

[The Damned]

Holy Lance and Oberisk/Obelisk could probably stand lose a point of WP and Javelin could perhaps stand to gain a point of WP; Holy Lance is the only one that should probably be changed a bit weaker due to the Holy proc. Otherwise, it looks good.

[CT5Holy]

Damned: Do keep in mind that Lancer MA is garbage. Holy will add around another ~30 damage. Maybe even less.

[The Damned]

I'm aware of that. I was thinking of people who aren't Lancers, like Samurai.

[FFMaster]

Ok, here is a more finalized list of Weapons. Anything you feel is wrong or should be changed, just post.

[The Damned]

Very well then.

• Knives - Gave my comments on these already.
• Ninja Blades - Gave my comments on these already.
• Swords - Gave my comments on these already.
• Knight Swords - Seem fine. Nice to see Defender actually look useful now.
• Katana - Gave my comments on these already.
• Axes - Is the "Critical Hit" still that Dark-based 85% attack? I never liked that and it seems especially unnecessary since Axes have a less wonky formula. Otherwise fine.
• Rods - Still kind of weary of Dragon Rod, though at least its WP isn't idiotic now. Otherwise fine.
• Staves - Not much to say. They seem better than they were, but can the AI actually take advantage of things like 25% Cast Esuna or Reflect?
• Flails - Nothing to see here.
• Guns - Nice to see Romanda Gun got strengthened, though I'm not sure how feel about consistent 81 damage. I'm also weary to see magical guns, but I'm willing to see how they work out.
• Crossbows - Not sure how I feel about Bowgun being able to be 2-Handed for more damage and 100% status on otherwise moderately powerful weapons with distance, but we'll see how it works out. (This is perhaps hypocritical of me to say.)
• Longbows - Gave my comments on these already, but since more was added, I have to say again that I'm fine with everything except for Mythril Bow, which seems a bit weak to me still. But we'll see.
• Instruments - Bloody Strings could perhaps stand to lose evasion as was said earlier, but otherwise they're fine.
• Books - Battle Dict is an improvement, but I'm really not a fan of the strong spell procs and, really, besides maybe Faith, I don't see why anyone would want to use the Monster Dict over the Papyrus Plate. That said, I also have to ask which of the three Bio 3s is the proc of the last book.
• Spears - Gave my comments on these already.
• Sticks - Look rather powerful as a whole, though Gokuu Rod still blows since there's really no reason that an Oracle would want to inflict someone with Innocent most of the time. Otherwise fine.
• Bags - I still say that the Always Regen items need to be weak to something other than Darkness, but it's fine for now.
• Cloths - Ryozan Silk is OP. Always: Innocent almost completely trumps Always: Shell, especially since Malak and monsters aren't around. Ryozan Silk would be fine with "Always: Reflect" IMO.

[FFMaster]

And here is a more finalized list of armors and accessories. If everyone is happy with the equipment, we can reopen the test tournament.

[philsov]

now... before we get ahead of ourselves...

is there enough -space- for all this stat boosting/stat immunity/starting status?