FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread

[Dokurider]

Discussion about Heaven's Cloud was pretty recent, right?  Did we come to an agreement about it?

Unfortunately it hasn't even been discussed at all.

I can't say, myself.  One 1.39 combination that is on my mind is a Paladin with a protect/shell knightsword and a shell/protect perfume for total defense.  This combination is not entirely broken because the Paladin will have very little P-EV and no M-EV.  In this case, Death might serve a purpose.  Assuming the Paladin has 70 Brave for melee damage, switching Death to a nether formula would preclude this application.  It's easier to have 70 Brave than 40 Faith, after all.

Then again, 40-40 units are obnoxious, so I'm on the fence.

Keeping it as a Faith Formula would do little to remedy that anyways aside from Pilgrimage. Those 40-40 unit are precisely the kind of units that Death would excel in killing if turned into a Nether Spell in the first place. 70 Brave units are usually damage dealers and are optimized for offense and thus would be easy pickings for other kinds of strategies in the first place, as opposed to 40-40 units that are optimized for turtling and a lot harder to kill in the first place.

Silence: Increase CT from 0 to 48

This is also a good change as it relaxes Mages' need to be Silence proof, but at the cost of weakening an already weak status. I propose that Silence persist on death, so while a Silenced unit isn't worthless forever, they still have to wait the full 48 CT to be worthwhile again.

[reinoe]

Thinking about ways to get the A.I. to proactively use Protect/Shell.  I came up with an idea that's probably overboard but I figured I'd post it anyway for the sake of discussion.  What if Wall also triggered Defend?  The problem of course is that it might make turtling teams too powerful.  Also the A.I. loves babying itself so another problem might be that it'll spam wall until it runs ouf of MP.

[Reks]

I noticed the AI tends to use both if they're already targeted with something, whether or not they'd survive even if they had it.


A few of my teams did use it near the start(in tests, might have one or two examples on a video from Barren and such here somewhere), but I think that was just to use a turn doing something when they could be reached already, and the units didn't have other abilities that they could use on that turn.

[Gaignun]

Keeping it as a Faith Formula would do little to remedy that anyways aside from Pilgrimage. Those 40-40 unit are precisely the kind of units that Death would excel in killing if turned into a Nether Spell in the first place. 70 Brave units are usually damage dealers and are optimized for offense and thus would be easy pickings for other kinds of strategies in the first place, as opposed to 40-40 units that are optimized for turtling and a lot harder to kill in the first place.

Point taken.

This is also a good change as it relaxes Mages' need to be Silence proof, but at the cost of weakening an already weak status.

Silence is weak on paper, but the AI's refusal to cure it makes it strong.  Furthermore, silence is one of the easiest ailments to inflict.  At present, it is inflicted incidentally (e.g. from Kagesougi, the Bizen Boat katana, or Silencer, all of which deal HP damage as well) rather than intentionally (e.g. from Paralyze or Blackmail).  Lastly, at 48 CT, Silence will last a whopping 4~5 turns.  The same argument applies to Blind.  For these reasons, I don't believe that persistence past death is necessary.

I noticed the AI tends to use both if they're already targeted with something, whether or not they'd survive even if they had it.

Does the AI use it on team members that are being targeted, or only itself?  Either way, 0 CT Wall should complement this observed behaviour.

Before closing, I'd like to issue a proposal.  What would people think if we made Earth elemental attacks tend to ignore evasion?  The reason is clear: the Earth element is unreliable because of the presence of float.  By making Earth attacks tend to ignore evasion, we give them the reliability they need.  Conversely, from the defenders viewpoint, coping with unevadable attacks is a pain.  (Consider, for example, how annoying Hidden Knife and Magic Guns are!)  So, float becomes a much-needed coping mechanism alongside element absorption.  (Granted, not all Earth attacks will ignore evasion.  Quake, for instance, is good enough as it is.)

Anyway, the reason why I propose this now is because Raven's suggestions for Punch Art and Ninjutsu call for Water to become the unevadable element.  How does the following sound, instead?

Punch Art
Repeating Fist Clay Fist: 1 Range, 0 AoE, 0 Vert, 0 CT, 8 MP, Dmg_B(PA*10), Earth Element, Unevadable, Uncounterable, CounterFloodable
Earth Slash Torrent Slash: 6 Range, Linear, 1 Vert, 0 CT, 12 MP, Dmg_B(PA*8), Water Element, Evadable, Counterable, CounterFloodable

Ninjutsu
Suiton Doton: 5 Range, 0 AoE, 0 CT, 10 MP, Dmg_UF(PA*8), Earth Element, Unevadable, Unreflectable, Counterable, CounterFloodable

Coincidentally, the Vanish Mantle+Black Costume combo will no longer be able to stonewall Ninjutsu teams.

[Dokurider]

I'm not sure how everyone feels about my proposal about dropping Ultimus Bow down a WP, perhaps hesitance? I primarily propose it because Ultimus Bow and it's partner in crime, Kagesougi have made Crossbows, especially Gastrafitis go to the wayside. So I came up with an alternate solution: Make Gastrafitis literally Kagesougi: The Weapon.

Gastrafitis: 14 WP - Random Add: Poison, Blind, Silence, Don't Move, Forced Two Hands

(Curious how it's basically combining the other crossbow's procs)
Combined with Kagesougi's MP increase, I think Gastrafitis should see some use again.

Thinking about ways to get the A.I. to proactively use Protect/Shell.  I came up with an idea that's probably overboard but I figured I'd post it anyway for the sake of discussion.  What if Wall also triggered Defend?  The problem of course is that it might make turtling teams too powerful.  Also the A.I. loves babying itself so another problem might be that it'll spam wall until it runs ouf of MP.

Wall's new 0 CT is designed to get the AI to use Wall more by being more capable of intercepting blows. Building your teams understanding this fact will probably net more successful strategies with Wall.

Personally I think any attempt to use Protect/Shell proactively will just end up promoting some overly powerful stall skill. I actually think that using it in Item attributes are it's most balanced application believe it or not.

Maintenance: Change to a movement ability, 0 JP

While I feel that Maintenance is simply not a worthwhile Support, I've been hesitant to support changing it to a Movement, preferring it be switched to being a Reaction. It's been something I haven't been able to put my finger on until recently. The reason I feel that changing Maintenance to a Movement is a bad idea is because it too easy for tanky units to add it on painlessly, especially with such a low cost. Making Maintenance too easy to tack on will phase out Item Breaking strategies. Anti-Items, as annoying and heartbreaking a skills they are, serve a powerful purpose in the game as a way to counter defensive teams, especially Iron Boots and Cursed Ring users, the items that would benefit strongly from Maintenance as a Movement. Meanwhile, Maintenance as a Reaction while having to compete with Auto Potion, Absorb MP, and other popular defensive reactions, would ultimately find itself seeing use on fragile offensive units that can't really use another reaction well because of how easily and quickly they die or 40-40 units who would have bad reactions rates anyways and maybe would prefer not losing their stuff over reactions that only go off less than half the time.

That's my 2 cents on it.

Does the AI use it on team members that are being targeted, or only itself?  Either way, 0 CT Wall should complement this observed behaviour.

Yes, the AI will already use Wall to save their teammates if CT permits it.

My final item for tonight is concerning Genji Armor. Simply put, it's HP is too low. It loses out to Robes + Iron Boots, which alone grants a higher HP total, making the point of giving Genji Armor low HP in the first place moot. I think it needs to be more competitive with Robes by giving it at least 70-80 HP and possibly 10 more MP.

inb4 doku's gone mad

[Dokurider]

Punch Art
Torrent Fist Earth Fist: 1 Range, 0 AoE, 0 Vert, 0 CT, 8 MP, Dmg_B(PA*11), Earth Element, Unevadable, Uncounterable, CounterFloodable
Earth Slash Torrent Slash: 6 Range, Linear, 1 Vert, 0 CT, 12 MP, Dmg_B(PA*8), Water Element, Evadable, Counterable, CounterFloodable

Ninjutsu
Suiton Doton: 5 Range, 0 AoE, 0 CT, 10 MP, Dmg_UF(PA*8), Earth Element, Unevadable, Unreflectable, Counterable, CounterFloodable

Coincidentally, the Vanish Mantle+Black Costume combo will no longer be able to stonewall Ninjutsu teams.

If we did that, my first thought would be that perhaps the changes to Iga and Koga Knife won't be necessary then, since there's skills to actually complement the pairing now, particularly Doton and Fuuton? Otherwise the elemental changes seems reasonable enough.

[Gaignun]

Why are we changing Iga and Koga Knife in the first place?  I thought it was to get around Thief Hats.

Regardless, even if the Ninjatou combo gets changed to Earth+Fire, there is still Spiked Futon for boosting Wind damage.  The odd one out is now Aspergillum.

I added Monk, Ninja, Lancer, and Mediator changes to the proposal summary.  Concerning monks, the changes allow for an optimized monk (FS Bag, Power Sleeve, 108 Gems, and Martial Arts), to push 300 damage on 70-70 Brave.  Keep in mind that many options for reducing Water, Wind, and Earth damage exist, so it's not so bad.

[Dokurider]

We can always just bring the Flame Whip back. Or just make it a Stone Whip.

[CT5Holy]

Wall doesn't need an MP cost increase, does it? I thought people were fine with leaving it at 25 MP.

W-EV nerf to the spears seem unnecessary.

I'm not sure Bloody Strings needs the WP nerf. People aren't using it. Also not 2Hable like Blood Sword, but it does have range. hmm. Actually, the damage output is very comparable to a 2H Blood Sword (15 MA Bard with AUP compared to ~12 PA something with 2H Blood Sword). I dunno, just feels like another unnecessary change, and the WP nerf makes it even more unlikely for it to see use.

I'm fine with the status reshuffling on the headbands, but I think they should give at least 40 HP. I feel Monks would become a bit too squishy - their current HP levels are just about right IMO. Are headbands becoming part of Equip Clothes? Is the lowered HP to compensate for that? Or just simply for their status protection?

I think Counter Flood can stay at 250 JP. The damage isn't great (well, it's (on average) comparable to Damage Split, actually, haha), but it isn't usually going to hit for AoE, and the main draw to CF for me, at least, is the status procs. Assuming 55% proc rate, statuses only occur 11% of the time. On the right unit, the HP gained back from Damage Split can keep said unit alive for another turn/attack, and if they survive a high damage attack like Holy, the recoil can be quite severe.

I'm on the fence about Save the Queen and Raganrok granting Always: Protect/Shell. That feels really powerful.

Were Priests going to receive +1 SP as well? Or was that only in the case where Time Mage goes to 8 Speed? And are Time Mages going to be able to equip Shields? I'd certainly be fine with that.

I more or less agree with the changes I did not comment on.

[reinoe]

I think as we inch closer to 1.39 it might be nice to see if we can do something about staves.  It's a little unfair for something like staves to get no improvements.  But it's also one of those things were just about everyone had an opinion at some point.  Almost all of those opinions seemed balanced.  Since just about every idea seemed to be a fair and balanced one and there were ideas for each individual stave we didn't  even come close to a consensus.

Were Priests going to receive +1 SP as well? Or was that only in the case where Time Mage goes to 8 Speed? And are Time Mages going to be able to equip Shields? I'd certainly be fine with that.

This was one of those things were the forum seemed to be split.  Unlike the "Staves" example, this got split into only two camps.  Either Time mages getting a stat boost while getting shields and going to 8 speed, or Time Mages just getting 10 speed with little or no stat boosts.  Both ideas were good ones.

I don't recall too much discussion about priests because the Time Mage situation was one of those all consuming things.  In fact that Staves discussion was an extension of the Time Mage discussion.


EDIT: There are currently 3 Genji Gauntlets and one Power Wrist currently in play considering all teams in Arena.  I think the evasion on Power Wrist and Genji Gauntlet need to be higher than the currently proposed 25%

[Reks]

Having Time Mages at 10 speed would make it hard to synergize the speed between units. Not true in EVERY sense, but it's not the best of choices in my opinion. Giving them shields opens them up to a bit more evasion and Elemental immunities/Absorbs/weaknesses. They're glass already with their poorer stats, so it should give them a bit more survivability.

As for staves, well.... It depends on how they're used overall. They, in theory, CAN be potentially good for melee. The reason they're overlooked is because the White Staff, Healing Staff (less so from the Holy boost), and Golden Staff primarily rely on their melee procs/effects. There are far better alternatives in the MA field that aren't as risky to use as mages, who are the only ones to really use them effectively, are squishy. The other staves are good as is, potentially 'overpowered' in Mace of Zeus's case, which is because it overshadows the others by a huge degree, aside from the Wizard Staff.

[Gaignun]

Old quotes, but:

Gastrafitis: 14 WP - Random Add: Poison, Blind, Silence, Don't Move, Forced Two Hands

No complaints here.

While I feel that Maintenance is simply not a worthwhile Support, I've been hesitant to support changing it to a Movement, preferring it be switched to being a Reaction.  The reason I feel that changing Maintenance to a Movement is a bad idea is because it too easy for tanky units to add it on painlessly, especially with such a low cost.

Well, that's the point.  If it's not painless to equip, it never will be equipped.  Besides, tanks that use Maintenance (as a movement ability) pass up on Move-HP UP and soon-to-be Speed +1.  If you're still concerned, we could bump up the JP cost from 0 to 100, or even 200.

My final item for tonight is concerning Genji Armor. Simply put, it's HP is too low. It loses out to Robes + Iron Boots, which alone grants a higher HP total, making the point of giving Genji Armor low HP in the first place moot. I think it needs to be more competitive with Robes by giving it at least 70-80 HP and possibly 10 more MP.

Genji Armor is a joke item.  FFMaster threw it in because he didn't have the attribute space to make it unique.

Wall doesn't need an MP cost increase, does it? I thought people were fine with leaving it at 25 MP.

Hard to say.  35 MP is pretty steep, though.  It will be easier to judge how much MP it should cost after seeing how effectively the AI exploits it.

W-EV nerf to the spears seem unnecessary.

I think so, too.

I'm not sure Bloody Strings needs the WP nerf.

Me neither.  Seems like a cop-out for those that refuse to run P-EV gear.

Are headbands becoming part of Equip Clothes? Is the lowered HP to compensate for that? Or just simply for their status protection?

I think that Equip Clothes was the idea when Raven proposed those changes.  I'm not sure what FFMaster's opinion on this is, though.  I believe FFMaster was against including headbands in Equip Clothes in the past.

I think Counter Flood can stay at 250 JP. The damage isn't great (well, it's (on average) comparable to Damage Split, actually, haha), but it isn't usually going to hit for AoE, and the main draw to CF for me, at least, is the status procs.

Damage Split doesn't trigger off of status attacks or dodged attacks, though, whereas Counter Flood does.  Counter Flood is very deadly when used by Geomancers, Bards, and Dancers.  Give it a try!

I'm on the fence about Save the Queen and [Ragnarok] granting Always: Protect/Shell. That feels really powerful.

They'll certainly have growing pains!  Rest assured, Save the Queen and Ragnarok can only be used by Paladins, so their application is limited.

As for staves, well.... There are far better alternatives in the MA field that aren't as risky to use as mages, who are the only ones to really use them effectively, are squishy.

Exactly.  What staves need is a job class that can equip them naturally and that has decent HP and MA - a tank mage class, if you will.  I originally wanted Time Mages to be the tank mages because the idea fits so well with their skill set.  Shortly after my proposal, though, FFMaster announced his Druid class.  Let's wait and see if Druids can fill the niche.

Having Time Mages at 10 speed would make it hard to synergize the speed between units.

Well, there are still other mage classes with 8 SP synergy.  Time Magick fits comfortably on a Priest if you're concerned about its user outpacing the rest of the party.  Again, let's wait for Druids before making our final decision.

[The Damned]

(I'm guessing you already saw my composite list in the 1.39 thread when you did yours, right Gaignun?

Also, wow that last post of mine in here had a few typos, but I guess they worked out even though "saw" was supposed to be "say" and there were other mix-ups & omissions. [/general failure])

Yeah, I'm still not sure about the whole Heaven's Cloud thing. I mean, I'm "sure" it needs some type of change, I'm just not sure what given that Wind Absorb is already kinda "meh" and arguably the "worst" elemental absorb; something has to be after all.

I'll try to come to a decision about it soon though since it would be rather hypocritical to often semi-jokingly complain about always being ignored and then have someone else feel like they were being ignored.

Needless to say, this post is probably going to be long even by my standards. That said, I'll try to compress everything as much as Ultimecia tried. That means I'm thus fated to fail; fucking SeeDs and space-time and Fate.

Given the discussion about Staves again, I'll start by just posting my suggestions for Stave changes again:

spoiler: The Last Iteration I had of Staves

[STAVES]
1. White Staff's WP increases from 7 to 8 and it becomes Holy Elemental. -
Explanation: Basically this makes it having the Dia proc far more useful and Holy Elemental gets another ally since right now, with Holy Lance still sucking, the only (useful) Holy weapons are the rather exclusive Excalibur and Silver Bow.


2. Healing Staff's W-EV increases from 10% to 20% and gains Strengthen: Dark & Speed +1 in addition to Strengthen: Holy. (Possible renames: Chaos Staff, Cosmos Staff, Priest Staff, etc.) -
Explanation: The Speed +1 is there partly because given that we were and still are unsure about Priest and Time Mage's speed and yet everyone agreed that a healer "should" be moving first. Even though Speed +1 is a big deal--and it's nice to see Sprint Shoes get a boost with Immune: Slow--and all, given Murasame has a) Block: Berserk and b) more power due to innate Two Hands, having dual strengthens and that W-EV still seem fair with no WP boost. Having both Strengthen: Dark & Holy means that Staves might actually gets used with Two Swords more outside of Wizard Staves, which are utterly interchangeable with Wizard Rods and, to a degree, C Bags.


3. Rainbow Staff's WP decreases from 10 to 7 and gains Block: Oil & +2 MA. -
Explanation: The severe drop in WP was solely due to adding +2 MA, which itself was solely as a compromise to Raven since I wanted and still want Wizard Staff to be/do something else and not be a carbon of Wizard Rod (or C Bag). That said, however, +2 MA is probably for the best since just Block: Oil doesn't seem like it would cut it very much against Gold Staff, which everyone at least agrees should be the "attack" Staff. So Rainbow Staff becomes the non-healing support staff that has benefit of a) being able to actually attack unlike Healing Staff and b) also boosts general magic instead of just Holy & Dark (which Healing would do more) while c) blocking Oil.


4. Wizard Staff's loses +2 MA, becomes Dark Element, gains the ability to cast at 50% the spell Harm (basically Dark element version of Dia, except with a 20% chance to Silence) and gets renamed Black Staff. -
Explanation: As just said above with Healing Staff, when it came to suggesting Staff re-designs, I tried to think of ones that could actually benefit from the fact that Staves work with Two Swords; the current ones really...can't aside from the current generic as hell Wizard Staff. The current Wizard Staff also has the problem of not really helping the already crappy Time Mage class, the class that's stuck with using only Staves unless they want to use Bags (or Fists), much if at all. The +2 MA does nothing for Comet and basically does very little for everything else Time Mage has, especially Balance. So I figured the new Wizard Staff (or whatever is in it spot, this being "Black Staff") should benefit Time Mage somehow, especially if I was suggesting that White Staff be made more beneficial to Priests and people who want Priests as attackers. So making the opposite of Wizard Staff just seemed to work since Time Mages could just strengthen it alongside their Demis. This especially since there aren't really any Dark element weapons right now anyway; there are literally only two--the almost never used Sadist's Whip and the barely-more used Koutetsu Knife. Even if no one is probably going to be using Black Staff with Chivalry any time soon, there's at least room in the Dark element weapons category for an MA-based weapon if nothing else.


5. Gold Staff's WP increases from 8 to 10 and its W-EV increases from 10% to 15%. -
Explanation: This is the most straightforward explanation: Gold Staff is the only current Staff--since current White Staff is horrible--overtly concerned with actually hitting the opponent. As such, it should be rewarded more for hitting opponents who don't have positive status on them, hence more WP, and it should be made easier for it to "get in" to attack in the first place, hence more W-EV (since giving it Move +1 is both far more "iffy" and subject to the lack of Item Attribute space). I wouldn't be against this getting 20% W-EV and Healing Staff "only" going up to 15% W-EV so long as Healing Staff's evasion increases (since giving it even more WP isn't going to do crap outside of give Kagesougi something else to abuse).


I gave no changes for Mace of Zeus since I've ultimately come to believe that Staff is more or less fine. Besides, with the main problematic user of it, Scholar, dying and formerdeathcorps's team not convincing me it's broken as he seems to think, there's no point in changing what's the only currently good (non-carbon copy) Staff.

With all that typed up, might as respond to Gaignun's lists first before actually quoting anyone. I'll be using the one from Gaignun's thread since he apparently updated on Sunday and I didn't notice until a couple of hours ago.

Assume if I don't comment on something here, that I'm probably more or less fine with it:

spoiler: Weapons List of Gaignun

Knives
1. Yeah, I obviously thought that Dual Cutters does need the attack boost, but I don't recall anyone commenting on it, so thanks for putting that out there (even if you came up with it independently).

2. IIRC, Air Knife is actually getting decreased to 11 WP, not 12, since it will still be the most powerful Knife between Oil and/or Strengthen. It needs to neither beat nor tie with Katar and Orichalcum from the start, even with Thief Hat around halving Wind.

3. You missed people more or less agreeing that Throwing Knife should get more WP since it's...barely whelming right now. [/YJ Robin] I think the consensus (that Raven gave) was 12 WP, even if that might mean its Death Sentence proc may "need" to lessen a bit later.


Ninjatou
1. I can handle Hidden Knife losing both Speed and W-EV. Someone still needs to test whether its Transparent aspect is screwing with Weapon Break though or if my horrible luck just weirdly screwed me over against formerdeathcorps.

2. I'm pretty sure Spell Edge still has its +1 MA. No one had a problem with that combined with 100% Spell Absorb.


Swords
1. No one actually agreed on the Phoenix Blade thing and I know that I at least thought there should be quite a bit of discussion about Immune: Critical if it stays around at all. At the very least, I know I personally said that it needs to lose some W-EV (20%) and one of its immunities if it gets Immune: Critical given its abuse already.


Knight Swords
I'm fine with these.


Axes
1. I still suggest re-naming Decapitate "Maim", but more importantly, I think Giant Axe's W-EV wasn't supposed to drop at all. At least, I'm pretty sure people expressed no problem with it keeping 30% W-EV so long as Slasher was made usable and Battle Axe made not absurd, though perhaps something changed in the past month I've been "gone"....

2. As reinoe pointed out, you missed Slasher's big (suggested) change (by myself and others, though others were initially joking): it becomes Two Swords capable at the "cost" of losing some of its W-EV, going to 20% so as to not obviate the just-boosted Parry Edge.


Staves
See my own list above since no one really agreed on any of these save Gold Staff being the "attack" Staff and Mace of Zeus probably being fine.


Guns
1. Spellguns becoming Nether is wholly necessary, so I agree. I still think they should perhaps be Forced Two Hands as well, but for now them becoming Nether might be enough.

2. As long as -1 Sp can be done without anything becoming...wonky, then I guess the new Stone Gun suggestion might be fine. It might have to take a bit of a WP nerf as well or something though, especially with Speed +1 being existent next version.


Crossbows
The buff to Silencer actually meant a WP decrease for Poison Bow as well, which I still think sort of needs to happen, if only because it forces people to see (even more) how overpowered current Hawk's Eye is. I wouldn't be against buffing Poison Bow's status though depending....


Longbows
Long Bow getting +1 Move is fine. Probably.


Spears
1. Yeah...I'm not really sure the now-elemental--you forgot to mark them as neutral--Spears need W-EV nerfs or even WP anymore, especially if Lancers aren't getting a boost to MA. The Spears could maybe lose their +1 Sp though.

2. I kinda agree with Dokurider's Cyclops suggestion, though I also don't know if this (read: your suggested Holy Spear/Lance) is what FFMaster had in mind when he said he was fixing Holy Breath and Holy Spear.


Harps
10 WP on Bloody Strings is actually 2 WP more than it was agreed upon, at least when fdc and I were pretty much the only ones talking about it. That might be fine, but 8 WP or even 9 WP (as a "compromise") isn't nearly as bad as people think.

spoiler: Armour List of Gaignun

Armour
These are all fine, though I think even I agreed with Raven and the others that the Headbands should have more HP, even if I'm still really uncomfortable with all of the things that Ribbon/Chakra Band now blocks.

spoiler: Crystal Shield of Gaignun

...Yeah, Immune: Oil isn't enough to save this thing most likely. Still, I guess that's better than what I've still (not) come up with.

spoiler: Accessories List of Gaignun

1. I like the Power Wrist and Genji Gauntlet changes since the more I thought about Raven's suggested mantles changes, the more they seemed rather overpowered. Yours might have a tad too much EV though, even Power Wrist if only because of Defending still doubling EV.

2. I approve of this change to Sprint Shoes even if people were already using it apparently.

3. When it comes to Jade Armlet, I'd rather have it block Faith & Innocent instead of Slow between Sprint Shoes getting Immune: Slow, Headbands being part of Equip Clothes still being...unsure and nothing else blocking Faith & Innocent still accessory-wise.

4. I like the change/boost to Defense Armlet since pretty much no one is using that poor thing.

5. I of course approve of Cursed Ring losing +1 Sp. I think I'd even be fine with it losing Null: Holy too like Dokurider suggested or maybe having Null: Holy "only" become Halve: Holy, though the latter might make even more powerful in a way....

spoiler: Skills List of Gaignun

Squire
When it comes to Ultima, outside of the JP drop that I suggested, I'm not sure how I feel about the slight buff to its CT and MP cost. I guess they're probably fine though, I'm just unsure, especially when all the Clothes are suggested to get more MP.


Chemist
1. I agree with the Auto Potion nerf. I'm not sure if anyone else did though.

2. I agree with Maintenance becoming Movement--I can't remember if I said so explicitly. The JP cost might need to be 100 JP though. It's better than the free Jump +1 since, if you're using Maintenance, then it protects your setup and its effect is constant and not map dependent like how Jump +X is. It shouldn't be 200 JP though; 150 JP should likely be the max.


Paladin
1. I still think that Reraise needs more CT and/or needs not to self-target, but I'll compromise at 1 CT as long as it has *some* CT since instant, self-targeting Reraise is obviously bullshit.

2. I approve of the Equip Armor JP decrease even if I don't think it was ever agreed upon as to how much it should decrease or if it should even decrease at all.


Archer
1. I agree with all of the JP decreases. I think someone wanted Leg Aim to be more accurate though and I wouldn't really have a problem with that.

2. Even though your listed MP cost for Hawk's Eye is actually more than my suggested 10, it's still too good at 12 MP as something that adds both Poison and Oil on top of guaranteed damage. It really needs to lose Poison or Oil, preferably the former.

3. Something still needs to be done to make Cover Fire less absurdly swingy, I think people agree; it's just no one suggested how, myself included.


Monk
1. Not really sure why Spin Fist needs an MP cost or why we're reshuffling the proposed elemental changes to the redone Punch Art/Martial Arts, but I'll comment on that the next time I post when I have more time to think over it.

2. Equip Clothes probably needs a higher JP cost, at least if it's for sure getting Headbands as part of it. We need FFMaster to sound off on that still though, so for now I'll skip that too.


Priest
Even as much as I've kvetched about White Magick being strong and only getting stronger, I really don't think Wall needs to cost that much MP, especially with no MP increase on Iron Will, Dispel getting a boost and Save the Queen & Ragnarok getting boosts. For Wall, 20-25 MP should probably be the "max".


Wizard
1. I approve of the undiscussed changes to Frog.

2. I also approve of the changes to Death, though I think that Dokurider has a point about it probably being better off as Nether spell.

3. I was under the impression that people wanted Flare to be less expensive than even that, but personally 40 MP is probably fine with me. Maybe 35 MP would be better though.


Time Mage
1. I'm really not sure that Comet needs to be that quick, especially with the change to Auto Potion.

2. Similarly, I'm not sure that Sinkhole needs to be that cheap JP-wise given how quick and disruptive and ultimately good it is actually is, especially if the other Time Magick spells are becoming cheaper like they (save for the possibly the aforementioned Comet) need to.

3. I'm still unsure how I feel about that Demi change ultimately, but it should be...interesting regardless.


Summoner
1. I approve of that personal change to Titan.

2. I approve of that personal change to Bahamut since, yeah, no one's been using the poor King.


Thief
1. I approve of the change to Bad Tough Luck.

2. I of course approve, literally a hundred times over, of Quickening dying.


Mediator
1. Oh, hey. You used my suggested change for Persuade. I still think it should be renamed "Stall", but it's not like Persuade is that far off name-wise, so....

2. Well, you added a change to Refute in...but I think pretty much everyone agreed with it being split up into two halves: a negative-canceling ability that also canceled Berserk and a positive-canceling ability that also canceled Faith & Innocent but not Charging & Performing. Oh well. The inability to cancel Charging & Performing was the key change really.


Oracle
1. I approve of the relatively undiscussed change to Beguile. Unlike reinoe, I think its accuracy is probably fine; it's difficult to tell given how swingy Charm is though--it either sucks or outright devastates teams in most instances.

2. I approve of Dispel's AoE boost...though now that I think about it, I'm not really sure why the hell it "should" cancel Faith (or Innocent). That's just an "out-loud" musing about a new, general realization though.

3. Good to see the Paralyze thing realized, though I believe its missing the complimentary slight speed nerf to 4 CT or the speed boost that Sleep was supposed to get to 3 CT (between Paralyze and Mimic Daravon kicking its ass). I forget which though.

4. Thanks for backing me up on the "Balance to Oracle" thing since literally no else had said anything else about it until you mentioned it again about a week ago.


Geomancer
1. Yeah, Counter Flood needs to more expensive, especially if Geomancy is getting a bit of power back now with CT5Holy's suggested buff--which you missed, though I can't blame you since I had forgotten about it myself.

2. No one has anything about if Sandstorm should "get fixed" becoming Berserk capable like its supposed or keep its Stop even though Hell Ivy--for reasons I still can't fathom--has Stop now. I figure this should be talked about at some point.


Lancer
Yeah. Ignore Height mostly sucks, so it costing half as much is more than fair.


Samurai
1. With regards to Asura and Heaven's Cloud, like I said to Dokurider, I need yet more time to think about this.

2. I of course approve of the Bizen Boat change.

3. I still think Masamune and/or Murasame (and maybe even Chirijiraden) needs some type of change or slight nerf, but that's apparently just me, so....


Ninja
1. I still think Kagesougi should lose the ability to Poison now as well (or that Shuriken's chance to Poison should be [greatly] improved), but I'll take what I can get here.

2. I approve of Kibaku Fuda (and will try to remember the name for once).

3. I approve of both Mushin and the newer Misogi, though I think both of their JP costs should be (at least) 100 JP. Mushin because Innocent boosts Ninjutsu & greatly lessen most incoming magick. Misogi just because it helps potentially quite a bit, even if it's "only" self-targeting. If I had to pick, though, then I'd go with only the former being 100 JP (or more) since the -ton backed by Innocent status on a unit with above average PA still hit like a (non-Suplexable) train.


Scholar/Druid
I guess I'm fine with those changes to Tornado & Quake even if they're not becoming slower, which is what I cared about the most.


Bard & Dance
1. The Last abilities getting back up in percentage is good, especially since they're not back up to 50%, which I realized could be obnoxious in the Last Dance case if Quickening died as it should. This even if Mimes are unreliable and Last Dance is slow.

2. I approve of the change to Brave Up of course. Let's see if anyone will actually make use of it now, much less good use.

3. I still think that Magic Song & Battle Song need to go back to being only 50% since otherwise Polka Polka & Disillusion are basically worthless. At least Slow Dance & Cheer Song get a boost by Quickening dying in a fire like it should have forever ago. Polka Polka & Disillusion? Not so much.

4. I think everyone pretty much agrees that Wiznaibus needs to die for reasons that CT5Holy pointed out; they just haven't agreed how to "fix" it or what to replace it with. I have my own suggestions, of course, which you've already seen, but people currently still have others. Still, I figure you could at least note that Wiznaibus is basically "removed from the game" by this point.

spoiler: Jobs List of Gaignun

I agree with all of these, especially with Summoners getting more MP and Lancers getting Robes back. I think that Lancers could maybe do with another point of MA, but meh.

I also think there was something else that was forgotten job-wise, but it probably wasn't important....

spoiler: Status Effects

1. I'm fine with these changes to Blind, Silence & Berserk.

2. I also agree with Barren that Regen & Poison could probably stand to last a bit less if they're going to continue to persist after death now.

3. We "should" try to continue discussing the MP Regen (Refresh) & MP Poison thing even if it's unlikely to be in 1.39.

4. Similarly, also if taking notes from Journey of the Five, then we should discuss Poison & Regen and whether they should affect the Undead still.

5. Similarly, I also wouldn't be against discussing if Sleep's CT should become shorter if we're also taking notes from Journey of the Five and if Mimic Daravon still exists as an instant AoE ability.

So...considering that took up much more time than I expected and I wanted to go for a walk, I'll save quoting people to death for next time actually. I'm starting to get a headache anyway.

[Gaignun]

I don't have time to comment on every one of your points, Damned, but:

1. White Staff's WP increases from 7 to 8 and it becomes Holy Elemental.

Hmm.  I kept White Staff at 7 WP because it packs a punch when dual-wielded.  A balanced setup (Golden Hairpin, 2x White Staff, 12 MA, 70 Brave) deals 164~230 damage.  Dia procs once on average, adding an extra 50~99 damage (40-40 Faith and 70-70 Faith, respectively) with a chance of Blind.  All things considered, average damage is around 240~305 with a chance of Blind.  By comparison, 12-PA dual-Platinum Swords deal 226~318 damage with zero chance of Blind.

At 8 WP, dual-White Staff damage rises by around 30 HP on average.  It outperforms Platinum Swords, but is susceptible to elemental resistances.  Are we okay with that?

2. Healing Staff's W-EV increases from 10% to 20% and gains Strengthen: Dark & Speed +1 in addition to Strengthen: Holy. (Possible renames: Chaos Staff, Cosmos Staff, Priest Staff, etc.)

I found this overpowering.  Eldritch Staff is the same, but without the W-EV boost, nor Strengthen: Holy.  It's essentially an H-Bag, but with 10% more W-EV, zero chance of wasting turns smacking enemies, and a small boost to Demi, Lich, and Koutetsu.  The W-EV boost is transferred to Gold Staff, which is in greater need of buffs.

3. Rainbow Staff's WP decreases from 10 to 7 and gains Block: Oil & +2 MA.
4. Wizard Staff's loses +2 MA, becomes Dark Element, gains the ability to cast at 50% the spell Harm (basically Dark element version of Dia, except with a 20% chance to Silence) and gets renamed Black Staff.

I'm with Raven in believing that there is no problem with the current Wizard Staff.  Wizard Staff exists for classes that do not have access to Wizard Rod, and vice versa.  This version of Rainbow Staff will overshadow Wizard Rod.  Thus, I cannot agree with a staff getting both +2 MA and immunity to Oil unless Wizard Rod gets something as well.

I am more inclined to making Rainbow Staff Black Staff and leaving Wizard Staff as is.

5. Gold Staff's WP increases from 8 to 10 and its W-EV increases from 10% to 15%

Gold Staff's W-EV is set to 20% so that magick users fancy it simply for resilience to physical-based offense.  Setting its WP to 10 will make it vastly superior to Parry Edge, though, seeing as how Gold Staff cancels positive statii at 100%.  This is another Masamune-killer weapon.  We simply don't see it because stave wielders as a concept are unpalatable.  I think it is better to make the +2-MA staff the beastly DPS weapon (seeing as how... well... it has +2 MA), and leave Gold Staff for its sinister auxiliary effect.

In other words, how does boosting the +2-MA weapons to 10 WP sound?

Then again, Parry Edge sucks in its own right.  Maybe Gold Staff can be bumped up to 9 WP in spite of all this.

2. IIRC, Air Knife is actually getting decreased to 11 WP, not 12, since it will still be the most powerful Knife between Oil and/or Strengthen. It needs to neither beat nor tie with Katar and Orichalcum from the start, even with Thief Hat around halving Wind.

I must have missed this discussion.  Did we seriously agree with dropping Air Knife's WP all the way to 11?  I understand that it's currently very powerful, but I don't want to nerf it into oblivion.  At 11 WP, Air Knife with 108 Gems will be no stronger than Katar.  However, at least with Katar the accessory slot is free for Cherche and whatnot.

If it's Oil we're afraid of, then we should be fixing Oil.  Oil shouldn't be overriding elemental resistances in my mind.

3. You missed people more or less agreeing that Throwing Knife should get more WP since it's...barely whelming right now. [/YJ Robin] I think the consensus (that Raven gave) was 12 WP, even if that might mean its Death Sentence proc may "need" to lessen a bit later.

I disagreed with this, saying that Throwing Knife is attractive for its Death Sentence proc (particularly on support classes, like Chemists and Mediators, who aren't built for damage to begin with).  Raising its WP and reducing its proc rate turns it into yet another DPS weapon.  That's why I left the change out for now.

2. I'm pretty sure Spell Edge still has its +1 MA. No one had a problem with that combined with 100% Spell Absorb.

I accidentally left this out.  I'll add it back.

1. No one actually agreed on the Phoenix Blade thing and I know that I at least thought there should be quite a bit of discussion about Immune: Critical if it stays around at all.

Okay.  I'll cross it out for now.

Axes

Yeah, I am aware of that.  It's not changed at the moment because I don't have time to dig up the full change description. 

1. Yeah...I'm not really sure the now-elemental--you forgot to mark them as neutral--Spears need W-EV nerfs or even WP anymore, especially if Lancers aren't getting a boost to MA. The Spears could maybe lose their +1 Sp though.

You're the second person to comment on these nerfs, so I'll strike the changes out for now.  You think they really need to lose +1 SP, though?  These weapons don't seem particulary powerful to me to begin with.

These are all fine, though I think even I agreed with Raven and the others that the Headbands should have more HP, even if I'm still really uncomfortable with all of the things that Ribbon/Chakra Band now blocks.[/spoiler]

Any suggestions for how much extra HP they should receive?

1. I like the Power Wrist and Genji Gauntlet changes since the more I thought about Raven's suggested mantles changes, the more they seemed rather overpowered. Yours might have a tad too much EV though, even Power Wrist if only because of Defending still doubling EV.

I'm just trying to make them good.  They're made to compete with Feather and Leather Mantles: either +1 PA/MA or +20 P/M-EV.

1. I agree with the Auto Potion nerf. I'm not sure if anyone else did though.

I'm pretty sure Auto Potion was supposed to be nerfed last patch, but never was.  I'm simply transferring the change to this patch.

2. Even though your listed MP cost for Hawk's Eye is actually more than my suggested 10, it's still too good at 12 MP as something that adds both Poison and Oil on top of guaranteed damage. It really needs to lose Poison or Oil, preferably the former.

Is Hawk's Eye really that much of a problem?  I don't follow the videos thread, so I'm not aware.  Again, I think Oil is overpowered in its own right.  If we could keep Oil from overriding elemental resistances, and if we also reduce Poison's CT, would you still want to see Hawk's Eye nerfed?

3. Something still needs to be done to make Cover Fire less absurdly swingy, I think people agree; it's just no one suggested how, myself included.

We already did, didn't we?  The RNG chooses a value between 1 and 6 now, rather than 1 and 3 as before.  Cover Fire isn't a top-tier skill any more.

Monk
1. Not really sure why Spin Fist needs an MP cost or why we're reshuffling the proposed elemental changes to the redone Punch Art/Martial Arts, but I'll comment on that the next time I post when I have more time to think over it.

The elements give Wind, Water, and Earth some (much needed) representation in skill sets.  The MP cost was a long time coming, I believe.

Even as much as I've kvetched about White Magick being strong and only getting stronger, I really don't think Wall needs to cost that much MP, especially with no MP increase on Iron Will, Dispel getting a boost and Save the Queen & Ragnarok getting boosts. For Wall, 20-25 MP should probably be the "max".

All right.  I'll strike off the MP nerf.

2. I also approve of the changes to Death, though I think that Dokurider has a point about it probably being better off as Nether spell.

I'm liking the Nether formula, too.  Does anyone object to switching the formula?

3. I'm still unsure how I feel about that Demi change ultimately, but it should be...interesting regardless.

It's best to compare it to first-tier Fire.

Demi: faster CT and is relatively independent of caster MA, but costs more JP, can't be boosted by oil, and is less accurate
Fire: costs fewer JP, does more damage on average, can be boosted by oil, applies oil itself, and is more accurate, but has a slower CT, is strongly dependent on caster MA, and doesn't exist on a skill set with support abilities.

I think they more or less complement each other.

3. I approve of both Mushin and the newer Misogi, though I think both of their JP costs should be (at least) 100 JP. Mushin because Innocent boosts Ninjutsu & greatly lessen most incoming magick. Misogi just because it helps potentially quite a bit, even if it's "only" self-targeting. If I had to pick, though, then I'd go with only the former being 100 JP (or more) since the -ton backed by Innocent status on a unit with above average PA still hit like a (non-Suplexable) train.

Mushin is another one of those skills that is good only on paper.  The AI does not use it proactively.  The traditional way of getting the AI to apply Innocent is to put a Scholar on your team, but even then, the AI will only use it on the first turn; once engaged with the enemy, the AI will often choose to attack rather than reapply Innocent.

Misogi could be bumped up to 100 JP, though.

[reinoe]

How would Immune:Critical work?  I'm asking this in all sincerity.  Isn't "status:critical" a condition where your HP gets low?  Would "Immune:Critical" actually keep your HP above a certain threshold?

[Gaignun]

I think it would prevent you from running away when your HP is low.  I could be wrong.

[TrueLight]

I thought it meant that the unit would be immune to critical hits, silly me.

[The Damned]

(Well, that didn't take long. Too bad I've been distracted by something else for the past...four hours.)

I'll respond to Gaignun's response outside of quotations since I figure it will be more concise that way:

spoiler: At Gaignun

1. White Staff: I'm fine with it "only" being 7 WP then.

2. Eldritch Staff/Healing Staff: I can understand being accused of that version being overpowered, but I'm really not understanding why your version ONLY has Strengthen: Dark I guess. Why does it not still have Strengthen: Holy, especially since no other Two Swords-compatible weapon can do that? Also, I'm guessing you came up with "Eldritch Staff", right?

3. Wizard Staff: It's less that Wizard Staff is an active problem and more that it's dead space. Literally the only Staff classes that cannot use Wizard Rod are Priest and Time Mage and both of those, as I already said, can use C Bag. Really, the only thing that losing Wizard Staff would actually mean is that you can't have attack Priests, which really isn't much of a loss since Priests already do too much as it is and they still have the nuke that is Holy as well as Dia; besides, Priests still gets Flails anyway, which almost no one else gets. Meanwhile, even with Secondaries, Time Mage doesn't really care; it's not getting an MA boost as it is, so it's not like it's going to magically start being used with attack mage Secondaries all that much more. I just think that Wizard Staff's space could be much better utilized at present is all rather than me seeing it as a "problem".

4. Gold Staff & +2 MA, 10 WP weapons: I'm fine leaving it with 8 WP or "only" giving it 9 WP, partly because, yeah, Parry Edge "needs" help even if Swords are easily in top three of the most boosted weapon classes, if not at the very top. Giving 10 WP weapons +2 MA as well...doesn't make me all that comfortable; it would be heavily dependent on what else they did as well of course.

5. Air Knife: I'm pretty sure it's "supposed" to be 11 WP, but as you said, the problem lies more with Oil. Too bad that's unlikely to change any time soon though. If it took so long for people to see how broken the obviously busted Quickening was, the way more subtly overpowered Oil is even more contentious. That said, if that's the case, then shouldn't Orichalcum be boosted to 13 WP as well since otherwise it's "inferior" to Katar too, especially when Two Handed.

6. Throwing Knife: Personally, I think even with 12 WP, that its proc probably won't need to be lowered, especially since unlike the other Knives it can't even be used with Counter due to its range. Also personally though, I thought that only boosting it to 11 WP would be fine, but if people want to go with 12 WP, then I doubt anything will end up broken.

7. Elemental Lances/Spears: Oh, I'm not really sure they need to lose +1 SP. I was just musing about it as something that's possible out-loud since people were talking about it.

8. Headband: I could have sworn that Raven had upped the amounts already in the 1.39 changes thread. I'm too lazy/tired to look for it right now, but if it not, then I'll think on it. The MP costs are fine though.

9. Power Wrist & Genji Gauntlet: Understandable. I'm still a bit weary though. Maybe only 25% A-EV then?

10. Auto Potion: That's news to me then. I honestly don't recall. I support it though, so meh.

11. Hawk Eye: It is currently really dumb. It's just being overshadowed by even dumber things like Quickening, Cursed Ring and Spellguns. Once again, the problem is Oil, but as said above, that's probably not changing any time. At present, it's also problematic just because units good at hitting Hawk's Eye easily hit for 150+ HP on top of Poison & Oil. So, even if both those things were nerfed, I'd probably still want Poison to leave, if only because of Poison Bow and my own proposal to replace Wiznaibus.

12. Cover Fire: It's still seems way too swing-y being able to go from 40~ to 240~ on the same unit. I'm really not sure what to do with/about it though. It's not overly problematic like some things, but it seems kinda...dumb. I mean, weren't you the one with the "Patch Me" team? I thought you built that to show off that Cover Fire still needs fine-tuning?

13. Monk skills: No, I meant "why are the elements switched around from what Raven initially suggested?" Or, rather, since I was around for why you changed those things, I should say "I'm still not sure we should be changing these around just as we're giving them elements". This is mostly because we're not sure about Thief Hat still, but also partly because I'm not sure I agree with the distributions even if I'd be all for a Water elemental linear attack "normally". As for Spin Fist, I get why it needs to cost something with that change suppose; I just don't recall seeing it discussed. I actually thought of another proposal with regards to Punch Art/Martial Arts, but that can wait.

14. Mushin & Misogi: I guess we can try Mushin out at only 50 JP then.

Time to quote the hell out of things, though there are fewer I "need" than I thought:

If (and it needs to be done absolutely) Berserk loses it's [sic] infinite duration, then Salty Rage and Genji Helmet needs to become Always: Berserk with a possible Blind Immunity.

Would it be a problem to change Death's Formula to a Nether Formula? That way, it can be used to bust up tanks.

In addition to Balance being changed to Yin Yang Magic, it should also gain additional +CT.

Cursed Ring should also lose Null: Holy, because forcing Holy weapon users to pack Consecrate is a waste. While this isn't too problematic for Excalibur and Silver Bow, Holy Spear has to resort to Jump or their Secondaries to attack Cursed Units.

Lancers need Robes back. Period.

I think the Ultimus Bow (and the Mythril Bow too) could use a single WP point drop so that not only are the other bows a little more viable, but so can the crossbows.

I concur with all of this.

Otherwise, I'm not sure that giving Holy Spear the ability to proc Cyclops would be that much better since Lancers still have piss poor MA. It would definitely better though, so....

I'm not sure how everyone feels about my proposal about dropping Ultimus Bow down a WP, perhaps hesitance? I primarily propose it because Ultimus Bow and it's partner in crime, Kagesougi have made Crossbows, especially Gastrafitis go to the wayside. So I came up with an alternate solution: Make Gastrafitis literally Kagesougi: The Weapon.

Gastrafitis: 14 WP - Random Add: Poison, Blind, Silence, Don't Move, Forced Two Hands

(Curious how it's basically combining the other crossbow's procs)
Combined with Kagesougi's MP increase, I think Gastrafitis should see some use again.

I'd be fine with this. I'm guessing the proc rate would be 50%, correct?

To that end, I have to ask: Are people fine with Poison Bow becoming 10 WP for the sake of Silencer? Because while Silencer does need to become 12 WP, especially if Silence becomes finite, Poison Bow with 10 WP seems...lackluster, especially if Hawk's Eye gets to keep the ability to inflict guaranteed Poison (alongside guaranteed hits and Oil).

My final item for tonight is concerning Genji Armor. Simply put, it's HP is too low. It loses out to Robes + Iron Boots, which alone grants a higher HP total, making the point of giving Genji Armor low HP in the first place moot. I think it needs to be more competitive with Robes by giving it at least 70-80 HP and possibly 10 more MP.

inb4 doku's gone mad

This seems fine since while Genji Armor is obviously filler due to the current extremely limited Item Attribute space, it might as well be made to be at least potentially useful filler, especially since it's competing with a more readily usable item that all classes can equip. I seriously think only like two teams have ever tried to even use Genji Armor in all this time, so it really needs a huge boost, especially if Ragnarok & Save the Queen are becoming additional competition one of the few classes that can use it.

I'm not sure Bloody Strings needs the WP nerf. People aren't using it. Also not 2Hable like Blood Sword, but it does have range. hmm. Actually, the damage output is very comparable to a 2H Blood Sword (15 MA Bard with AUP compared to ~12 PA something with 2H Blood Sword). I dunno, just feels like another unnecessary change, and the WP nerf makes it even more unlikely for it to see use.

It needs it for the sake of the other two Harps actually seeing real use potentially right now it easily out-damages them due to how absorb (stupidly) works. Bloody Strings was being used a lot until people realized how stupid Spellguns still were and then Cursed Ring became really popular as well and it's basically anathema to using Bloody Strings (or Blood Sword), especially since Consecrate and Seal Evil are overly expensive, so....

Also, I'd say Bloody Strings are better than Blood Sword, even a Two-Handed Blood Sword, since you have range, more power from the go and can easily slap on Concentrate to a Bard with Bloody Strings. Meanwhile you have to choose between Concentrate and Two Hands (or Equip Light Blades) with Blood Sword as well as try to get range to even manage to land a hit in the first place.

How would Immune:Critical work?  I'm asking this in all sincerity.  Isn't "status:critical" a condition where your HP gets low?  Would "Immune:Critical" actually keep your HP above a certain threshold?

No to the HP threshold. IIRC, being Immune: Critical would just prevent the A.I. from going into Critical at all even when it hits that HP threshold, meaning they'd continue attacking even when they were on the verge of death. That is why I primarily oppose the Immune: Critical suggestion, because while I can understand what Raven is getting at, dual Phoenix Blade is already too good at being a damage sponge that eats up the enemies turns even when it's just fleeing. So it getting to want to attack every time it gets up as well just seems too much.

(Also, they'd become immune to Execute and that's terrible.)

Of course, I'm still increasingly of the opinion that Phoenix Blade shouldn't even be around, so I'm admittedly biased.

[Gaignun]

Eldritch Staff/Healing Staff: I can understand being accused of that version being overpowered, but I'm really not understanding why your version ONLY has Strengthen: Dark I guess. Why does it not still have Strengthen: Holy, especially since no other Two Swords-compatible weapon can do that? Also, I'm guessing you came up with "Eldritch Staff", right?

To avoid synergy with the spell Holy.  And yes, I came up with the name.  Thought it was fitting, given that it boosts dark, yet heals on hit.

3. Wizard Staff: ... Really, the only thing that losing Wizard Staff would actually mean is that you can't have attack Priests

We could have attack Time Mages as well depending on what we do with them. 

5. Air Knife: ... That said, if that's the case, then shouldn't Orichalcum be boosted to 13 WP as well since otherwise it's "inferior" to Katar too, especially when Two Handed.

Orichalcum is used to boost MA, though.  It's not supposed to compete with Katar.

6. Throwing Knife: Personally, I think even with 12 WP, that its proc probably won't need to be lowered, especially since unlike the other Knives it can't even be used with Counter due to its range. Also personally though, I thought that only boosting it to 11 WP would be fine, but if people want to go with 12 WP, then I doubt anything will end up broken.

Well, as long as the proc rate isn't touched, I won't object.

12. Cover Fire: ... weren't you the one with the "Patch Me" team? I thought you built that to show off that Cover Fire still needs fine-tuning?

Patch Me has... well, been patched.  I published it when Cover Fire was 1~3.  The team is less effective now.

13. Monk skills: No, I meant "why are the elements switched around from what Raven initially suggested?

Ah, naluhodo.  Thief Hat doesn't enter into the decision.  I reason that if an elemental skill ignores evasion, its element should be Earth.  If the change conflicts with equipment for whatever reason, that equipment can be adjusted.

[CT5Holy]

Phoenix Blade should definitely get Immune: Critical! It's a much needed buff IMO, because currently, someone with Phoenix Blade will get up, then run away and do nothing, as per usual of units in Critical. Assuming these units have Move-HP UP/Regen so they are out of Critical -> will re-enter the fray, that's like 2 wasted turns from the Phoenix Blade user, who's turns are precious enough already given Always: Slow. Also, no one is abusing Phoenix Blade in the slightest - I think teams with Phoenix Blade are at a lower win rate than teams without, and teams with 2x Phoenix Blade are doing the worst, contrary to what you think is happening, The Damned.

Crossbows: How about +2 WP to all of them (except Gastrafitis)? So Bow Gun at 10 WP, status proc Xbows at 12 WP, Gastrafitis at 16 WP. Crossbows overall seem rather meh.

Hawk's Eye: no, 12 MP + change to Oil should be more than enough to make it 'fair.' I acknowledge that Hawk's Eye is good, but it's not the problem The Damned is making it out to be. Remember, Poison is not that scary, and since Oil is really what's pushing Hawk's Eye over the top, let's find a way to tone down Oil.
Also remember that Archers have a subpar MP pool, and not all Hats/Clothes are receiving MP boosts. Archers will probably have an average of 10 more MP, which come from the elemental absorb clothes.

Speaking of Oil, is there a way to make it so Oil makes you one 'tier' worse in terms of elemental resistance? So if a unit had Oil and Absorbed an element, that unit would now Null the element, and Null -> Half, Half -> Normal, Normal -> Weak? I agree with Gaignun that Oil overriding elemental weakness is problematic, but if this were possible, then elemental resistance would still be effective, but Oil also wouldn't be completely shafted.

Blocking Faith/Innocent (Damned's proposed change to Jade Armlet) feels unnecessary since only one item applies Faith (Muramasa), and only one item Innocent (Gokuu Rod). Neither of those weapons are used much (certainly not Gokuu Rod, Muramasa is used occasionally). Randomly hosing those strategies seems silly, and Slow is much more relevant than Faith/Innocent.

Bloody Strings nerf to incentivize use of other Harps: How about... raising proc rates of the other harps to 50%? 50% Stop proc sounds pretty awesome to me.
Actually, the real issue is, no one's using Harps in general. Bloody Strings was never used a lot. People are using Bards as spellcasters/Draw Out cause of their awesome MA. All of these builds default to Rune Blade for the extra MA, which frees up at least one equipment slot for survivability purposes. So perhaps in addition to the 50% procs on Ramia and Fairy Harp, Bards can no longer equip swords? (I think at least 50% proc rate should happen though)

Nether formula for Death sounds good.

Crystal Shield: How about we give it some immunity to statuses instead of/in addition to Neutral: All Elements?

Damned: Cover Fire has been fine once it became 1-6, which was a long while ago. It's fine because of how swingy it is. When Cover Fire was 1-3, you consistently had very high damage output, and that was the source of the problem.

Remember, most spears have +1 Speed because Lancers used to have 9 Speed. They got bumped down to 8 SP for Jump, and the best spears for jumping, Dragon Whisker and Oberisk, do not give +1 Speed. This change made people who used Jump happy, while keeping people who liked 9 SP lancers happy. I got sidetracked, this was just meant to say that the spears don't need to lose +1 Speed >_>