Riskbreaker Job

[Archael]

discuss

[LastingDawn]

I believe Vanya has that planned as Ramza's final class change. Don't quote me on that though.

[Cheetah]

Yeah I have thought about it a lot and still have an Ashley sprite in the works. That I will hopefully be much more motivated to do now that I am playing Vagrant Story again.

Riskbreaker: Innate Reequip, and needs to be able to equip all weapons and armors (if you wanted to be true to the game he would have like no stat growth at all haha). As far as actual skills I don't know, Ashley can pretty much do anything (because he is a badass) so I guess you would just have to pick and choose. If you could have his special skills use HP instead of MP that would be a good start though.

[Zozma]

i would like to see this riskbreaker too, sounds like a nice idea for a job but im not sure if ill do it for ramza

[Dokurider]

Riskbreaker?

[Zozma]

yeah, that was Ashley Riot's "job" in Vagrant Story

[Dokurider]

Risk Break: 50+PA chance of breaking Risk.

[Archael]

Of course he'd have to be broken as fuck

and equip any weapon

[Vanya]

You are correct LD. My idea is to have Ramza be the original Riskbreaker. I'm going to let him use any equipment, give him some unique innate abilities (that is unique for my patch), and give him skills that I feel are signatures of the job.

[Archael]

the thing is

riskbreaker has 2 types of abilities

spells (cost mp)

and break arts (cost hp)

they would probably have a multi hit move too

heh

so broken

[Vanya]

I was planning to use mostly break arts and certain spells.

[townknave]

No one asked me, but I think Ramza's job in Chapter 4 ought to be Lord, like Denim from Tactics Ogre (or Destin from OB).  I mean, TO is much more similar to FFT than VS is, and he is the actual Lord Beoulve by the end, with his brothers dead...

Unlike Riskbreaker, TO's Lord could actually be well represented in FFT.

Something like 4 move, innate walk on water, innate two swords, a skillset like White-Aid, or maybe a custom set with some white magic spells and some basic Holy Sword stuff...  and stat growth something like

PA: 120/40, MA: Same as squire, Sp: 110/90

[Vanya]

I beg to differ a lot of the skills & spells used by Ashley can be recreated to a reasonable extent in FFT.

Also, since Ramza is branded a heretic and thought to be dead at the end of FFT he is effectively never named Lord of House Beoulve despite the deaths of his brothers.

While you are correct that VS is dissimilar to FFT game play wise, the fact of the matter is that VS is part of Ivalice. The reason for FFT being so similar to TO is that both games were created by essentially the same group.

[Archael]

VS is similar as fuck to FFT

they even talk funny

[townknave]

I do concede that story-wise, FFT is more closely related to VS than TO.  Gameplay-wise, however, no one can deny that FFT is much more similar to TO...  Ashley Riot is a do-everything character, and he simply has too many abilities to be accurately represented in FFT.

First off, he shouldn't be able to equip every weapon:  Just Knives, Swords, Knight Swords, Ninja Blades, katana, Spears, Flails, Axes, and xbows.

He has:  36 break arts (4 each for Dagger, Sword, Great Sword, Polearm, Axe & Mace, Great Axe, Heavy Mace, Crossbow, and Fist).  An FFT character can only have up to 32 skills total, so there's an issue right there.  There's also no way to weapon-limit skills except with swords.

He also has 4 spell sets.
The whole enchanter set can't be implemented because it changes Ashley's elemental properties, which can't be done by any FFT skill.
The warlock set can be implemented in some sense.  It has:
- one single panel attack spell for six elements, plus physical- 7 spells there.  
- one multi-pael attack spell for six elementa, plus physical, each ranging level one to four - 7-28 spells there
- Plus Banish (Death), Drain Heart (Life Drain) and Drain Mind (Spell Absorb) and Exorcism (no way to implement in FFT unless it's also basically Raise 2).  
The shaman set is no problem:
- Heal
- Restoration (cancel don't move/act, Stop)
- Antidote
- Blessing (cures curse, no comparable ailment in FFT)
- Clearance (Esuna)
- Surging Balm (Add: Regen)
Sorceror set:
- Herakles (no real good way to implement a temporary PA increase)
- Degenerate (same problem but with PA decrease)
- Enlighten (same problem but with MA increase)
- Psychodrain (same problem but with MA decrease)
- Invigorate (same problem but with Sp increase)
- Leadbones (same problem but with Sp decrease)
- Prostasia/Tarnish (no real way to make spells affect equips)
- Silence
- Magic Ward (I'd love to hear how this could be implemented in FFT... it's a very important spell for Ashley)
- Stun Cloud/Poison Mist (obvious)
- Curse (would need to create a new status effect)
- Dispel
- Fixate/Unlock (no application to FFT)
- Eureka (no mechanic to make traps visible)
- Analyze (maybe this could make ??? bosses' stats visible?  no mechanic in FFT to do this though...

I'd love to hear how somebody could get Ashley's 50+ abilities into a coherent FFT skillset...

[Vanya]

I don't want to represent Ashley anyway. I'm doing Ramza as the originator of the Riskbreaker job. That in itself gives me a lot of creative liscence. =)

[Archael]

tl;dr

No one here is saying that an Ashley Riot representation in FFT would need to have ALL of his abilities.

You are assuming an awful lot with that post!

He'd probably only need 1 break art per weapon type, and that's just the weapon types in FFT he actually has break arts for, ASM coded to only be use-able with the specific weapon type.

A Riskbreaker job in FFT would obviously be much more simplified than the actual Ashley Riot. No one's pretending he's gonna be a direct copy of the real thing.

That would be ridiculously redundant and unnecessary as far as a FFT job would be concerned...

I thought that would be obvious just from the fact that this post is in a FFT site.

I still fail to see the problem of anyone wanting to re-create Riskbreaker in FFT. It can be represented just fine.


 

There's also no way to weapon-limit skills except with swords.

This is false, ASM.



 

I'd love to hear how somebody could get Ashley's 50+ abilities into a coherent FFT skillset...

You won't be hearing that.

No one here is claiming that they can (actually, I don't think anyone even wants to) reproduce every single break art, along with every single offensive chain, every single defensive chain, every single spell, and EVERY SINGLE LEVEL of spell that ashley has (4 levels each for the offensive ones).

Again, I would have thought this was obvious.

Just like Cloud doesn't have EVERY SINGLE THING he can do in FF7 in his FFT representation, neither would Ashley Riot. Same concept.

[townknave]

Voldemort, I'm not saying nobody should do it.  Go ahead, knock yourself out, it's a cool idea.  I'm simply saying that it isn't clear what exactly a Riskbreaker as a class specializes in- he does everything, and that makes him a challenge to represent in FFT.  I'm not saying Vanya or whoever isn't up to the task, I'm sure they are.  He's designed for a one-character game where the player needs to have access to all the abilities in the game as one character.  He's essentially a special Knight plus an Oracle plus a Priest plus a Wizard and he equips everything...

As for Cloud, every single thing he himself can do in FF7 is in his FFT representation- his limit breaks.  Characters in FF7 are differentiated only by those ability-wise.  Everyone can use materia and Cloud presumably just didn't bring any.

[Asmo X]

This is a shit idea. Ashley is the only character you have so he uses a huge, versatile skillset. This completely antagonises the job system which by definition partitions skills into their own meaningful and distinct sets. And if you try to do that with Riskbreaker, well it isn't a Riskbreaker any more.

Also, its kind of silly to say something is doable because it can be ASM hacked. That presumes an awful lot of Zodiac's ability or desire to do that. Unless someone else is ASM hacking in which case the same thing could be said about them.

[Vanya]

Zodiac was never mentioned, and anyone willing to learn mips can do virtually anything with FFT. The only presumption I'm seeing here is that "Ashley" was being recreated at all. Everything created by man starts somewhere and goes from simple to complex.

Also, I'm seeing a lot of presumption, as to what constitutes a riskbreaker. If, as townknave says, the materia skills are disqualified from Cloud because anyone can learn them, then ALL of the spells Ashley can learn have to be thrown out as well. There is no reason to suspect that the spells that Ashley learns from a tome can't be learned by anyone else. I could say the same about the break arts. From studying Ashley and his skills the thing that really defines a Riskbreaker is the fact that he has to deal with the risk mechanic which is rather similar to the Faith stat in FFT. One could also argue that Ashley's crafting skill could be related to being a riskbreaker, but that'd kind of stretching it. I think what defines a Riskbreaker is the exploitation of 'risk'.

What I am thinking of doing is concentrating on break arts and certain chain skills I feel are unique to Ashley in a broad sense. There are a couple of formulas that cause damage and cost the user HP or rely on the user's HP being low. These will be sufficient to recreate some of Ashley's more unique skills while preserving of the job relying on 'risk' to be more effective. I feel this would make Ramza more interesting while simultaneously creating a tighter bond to VS. =)