FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread

[CT5Holy]

fdc's used Platinum Swords, and I feel like one other person might've as well. But I know fdc did for sure.

Cancel: Stop, Blind on Mythril Helmet sounds great! I like it.

I'm fine with a helmet getting Strengthen: Wind.

/unhelpful

[Dokurider]

After looking over the weapons list for Dark weapons, I realized the only Dark Weapons in the game already self strengthen, so I had the idea to make Iron Fan Dark elemental at 12 WP. That way, it doesn't compete with Dragon Whisker if Poles gain that PA | MA * WP formula or just become straight up PA * WP.

And finally, I had the best idea ever for Coral Sword, like ever. It loses Strengthen: Water, but gains Add: Reflect @ 50%. This is seriously awesome in that this can seriously mess up Spell teams, but it also has a dual use of adding Reflect to teammates when they absorb Water. Best of all, it has powerful synch with Water spells, because Water spells ignore Reflect! It's absolutely perfect.

[Gaignun]

We should do something about Phoenix Blade.  Playing against Phoenix-Blade teams is like playing a neverending game of whack-a-mole.   During testing, I've encountered 2v2 situations where one team is unable to finish the battle because the other team keeps reviving on the next clock tick.  Currently, the only counter is Weapon Break, and once Maintenance is switched to a movement ability, there won't even be that.  Mind if we scratch Phoenix Blade's Undead resistance?

[Barren]

I think we should do that yes. Especially since if you give the Phoenix Blade unit Jade Armlet which prevents petrify. Couple that with maintenance then that's a very sturdy unit that is a bitch to take out

[The Damned]

(Seemingly no one was using Platinum Sword presently until Torgo yesterday, CT5Holy, and as far as I can tell, even fdc isn't using any either in the teams he hasn't edited in like...nine months. So it would have to either be before 1.38 or something I overlooked.)

Phoenix Blade will probably ultimately just have to die, even if I'm personally (reluctantly) willing to give it one more chance without Quickening around like I said months ago. Even making it vulnerable to Undead isn't going to change much. It's just going to over-centralize the metagame even more towards inflicting, taking advantage of and dealing with Undead status, which is actually pretty difficult to inflict presently since all of two things do that. While seeing more Book and Yin-Yang Magic use (for things other than Paralyze or Petrify) in general would be nice, I doubt it would really change anything since removing Immune: Undead isn't going to make the enemy A.I. any less stupid about dealing with two Phoenix Blades. This in addition to the fact that the Zombie spell at least has to contend with the fact that most Phoenix Blade users have low-end Faith anyway.

That said, no, I don't mind. Again, I'm horribly biased against that sword nowadays though.

Yeah Whale Samurai with open accessory slots are bad news, but more importantly, Water doesn't need the help so much anymore. Coral Sword just needs some help taking off. Said helmet also doesn't need to carry Strengthen: Earth either. In addition to making Kikuichimonji (katana, but both really) really powerful. Plus Earth Clothes are phenomenal for Earth. Only Wind warrants this treatment.

I suppose so. Kikuichimonji, the katana, really requires higher MA and higher Faith though, which armored units tend not to have, on top of being range 1. Still, it probably would be a bit much, even with Float negating its proc and the ability.

I'd be fine with "just" Strengthen: Wind on Genji Helm I guess despite arguably the same argument could be made for Heaven's Cloud with Two Hands becoming "too powerful", even if, yeah, that doesn't have Tornado procs or anything like Kikuichimonji dies.

I don't mind Cancel: Stop, Blind in the slightest. I approve. Anyways, tell us when you're done playing Shell Games with our helmets for the sake making sure the little item graphics make sense with the attributes.

*shrugs*

I was never demanding or even suggesting we switch Cross Helm's stats with whatever helm got Immune: Blind, if anything even did. I was just saying that it would make more "sense" considering what "Cross" is actually supposed to be since I'm kinda like Elric apparently and "OCD" about things like that, especially in my own patch; that's all.

That said, I of course wouldn't be against switching Cross Helm to get Immune: Blind & Stop with Mythril Helm becoming the MP helm, especially since Mythril is supposed to be magickal anyway. It's just not terribly important to me. (Compared to me, say, continuing to tear my hair out over "Ramia Harp" still being misspelled after all these versions, especially when "Oberisk" and other things got fixed.)

I'm not really sure who else you need to speak up for you to call majority, there's only like, three or four people participating in this thread right now. Cursed Ring losing it's Holy immunity and +1 Speed, and nothing else, was considered a good idea by everyone.

I just wanted to make sure, especially considering I feel guilty about talking so much as it is and Gaignun hadn't noted it in the 1.39 changes thread last time I had checked.

Since we're talking about Cursed Ring, I "have" to ask: Are we fine with it still being weak to Fire, even with how easy that is for (current) Cursed Ring users to cover that weakness and it giving an edge to the already powerful Fire element? If it's losing "Null: Holy", then perhaps it gets "Weak: Holy" instead? Especially since White Magick already kicks the Undead's ass and gives the two other classes with anti-Undead techniques a boost against them, especially since Consecration is horrible against Cursed Ring; it would get more people to use Cyclops potentially though, even if surprisingly that's already seeing moderate use.

It's difficult to tell whether "Weak: Holy" instead of "Weak: Fire" would be a buff or a nerf though between Blaze Gun, even with it becoming Nether Fire-firing, and Fire element having the most AoE overall. Shrug.

Too bad I've lost track of what the fuck happened with Heaven's Cloud. Just drop it's Add: Slow proc so it can be readily absorbed and call it a day if nothing else can be agreed on.

I guess. Even with Genji Helm potentially getting "Strengthen: Wind", it just seems like Heaven's Cloud is still going to be...underwhelming, even with the current Slow getting in the way of absorb...on the ability. Slow is still going to get in the way on the katana and Heaven's Cloud the ability will still have to compete with Asura--whatever the hell is actually happening with that--and Koutetsu at the very least.

Giving Crystal Shield statuses protection sounds like the only viable option at this point other than just sending it to the graveyard with Escutcheon I.

Indeed.

We just haven't decided on what statuses would be good yet, especially since Immune: Oil is at least somewhat agreed to not be enough. That also doesn't really have anything to do with what ultimately happens to Rainbow Staff or the elemental neutralizing aspect or three of the others staves. None of us can currently agree on anything with regards to Staves outside of two things: that Gold Staff needs the most evasion & maybe most WP and that Mace of Zeus probably shouldn't change.

After looking over the weapons list for Dark weapons, I realized the only Dark Weapons in the game already self strengthen, so I had the idea to make Iron Fan Dark elemental at 12 WP. That way, it doesn't compete with Dragon Whisker if Poles gain that PA | MA * WP formula or just become straight up PA * WP.

I'd be up for that considering that there's only two Dark type weapons in the ARENA anyway: Koutetsu Knife and Sadist's Whip. Neither of those see much use--Koutetsu Knife sees none, actually, just like Iron Fan currently sees none.

And finally, I had the best idea ever for Coral Sword, like ever. It loses Strengthen: Water, but gains Add: Reflect @ 50%. This is seriously awesome in that this can seriously mess up Spell teams, but it also has a dual use of adding Reflect to teammates when they absorb Water. Best of all, it has powerful synch with Water spells, because Water spells ignore Reflect! It's absolutely perfect.

That's actually...a pretty good idea, even if Water (the spell) can get rid of Reflect.

I'd be all up for that, even if it might mean that Coral Sword might need a bit of an WP buff. It's difficult to tell though, especially since it currently sees basically no use.

[Gaignun]

I wasn't aware of that we wanted Cursed Ring to lose Null:Holy.  It's added now.  Also, I went ahead and made P-Bag heal on hit.  If anyone disagrees with this, please let me know. 

I'm ambivalent toward the Coral Sword change.  50% Add: Reflect is going to destroy teams that use White and Black Magick for support, given that Reflect lasts forever and is viewed as a positive buff.  If we're going to go ahead with this, I recommend making the proc no higher than 33%.  A WP buff is fine, too.

[Barren]

Maybe give Platinum Sword one mroe WP so it'd be a viable choice for two handed or dual wielding?

[Dokurider]

I just wanted to make sure, especially considering I feel guilty about talking so much as it is and Gaignun hadn't noted it in the 1.39 changes thread last time I had checked.

Since we're talking about Cursed Ring, I "have" to ask: Are we fine with it still being weak to Fire, even with how easy that is for (current) Cursed Ring users to cover that weakness and it giving an edge to the already powerful Fire element? If it's losing "Null: Holy", then perhaps it gets "Weak: Holy" instead? Especially since White Magick already kicks the Undead's ass and gives the two other classes with anti-Undead techniques a boost against them, especially since Consecration is horrible against Cursed Ring; it would get more people to use Cyclops potentially though, even if surprisingly that's already seeing moderate use.

It's difficult to tell whether "Weak: Holy" instead of "Weak: Fire" would be a buff or a nerf though between Blaze Gun, even with it becoming Nether Fire-firing, and Fire element having the most AoE overall. Shrug.

Giving it weak:Holy would be worse via redundancy, not better. White Magic already mops the floor with Cursed Ring, and 95% of all White Magic users have Raise/Raise 2. All it would do is power up a check that didn't need the powering up at the cost of screwing everyone else over. That being said perhaps adding an additional weakness would be okay. I would nominate Holy for the next weakness because a) Payback's a bitch. b)It wouldn't cause that big of a paradigm shift because of the sheer lack of Holy weapons and non-White Magic spells. The other candidate I would recommend would be Ice.

Also, I went ahead and made P-Bag heal on hit.  If anyone disagrees with this, please let me know.

No problems here.

I'm ambivalent toward the Coral Sword change.  50% Add: Reflect is going to destroy teams that use White and Black Magick for support, given that Reflect lasts forever and is viewed as a positive buff.  If we're going to go ahead with this, I recommend making the proc no higher than 33%.  A WP buff is fine, too.

Fair enough.

Speaking of adding Positive Buffs, I have another suggestion in the vein. In addition to becoming Dark Elemental, Iron Fan should also also add: Float at 50%. Similarly to adding Reflect, it screws up Earth Absorb teams by removing their ability to absorb and making allies immune to Earth.

Maybe give Platinum Sword one mroe WP so it'd be a viable choice for two handed or dual wielding?

Eh, the last weapon we let be Double handed at 13 WP was Air Knife. Then again, there's a world of difference between Platina Sword and Air Knife.

[The Damned]

(I'm not really sure if Cursed Ring needs another weakness, but it's something to potentially keep in mind I guess. I was just pondering out loud considering I wasn't sure the Null: Holy thing was happening at all until earlier today.)

Yeah...no. Swords already got a shit-load of buffs that like half of them didn't really need. I'd rather slightly nerf Lionheart before buffing Platinum Sword, partly because I have no idea how to buff with it stepping on something else that's already not seeing much use also.

That said, the Air Knife comparison isn't that apt though since current Air Knife can be strengthened beyond Two Hands by both Strengthen: Wind and Oil. Platinum Sword will never have that.

I wasn't aware of that we wanted Cursed Ring to lose Null:Holy.  It's added now.  Also, I went ahead and made P-Bag heal on hit.  If anyone disagrees with this, please let me know.

The Null:Holy thing only came up about a week or two ago, so it's unsurprising you missed it.

As for the P Bag, that's fine with me. The only other real candidate among the bags was  H Bag and that would maybe conflict with what Healing Staff may or may not be getting. Additionally, this gives P Bag a more consistent buff that it arguably "needs", what with Always: Regen being completely nullified by Poison.

That said, I'd still be up for adding another healing item that could, you know, actually heal for decent damage. After all, making P Bag heal basically is just buffing it so that A.I. wouldn't stupidly attack with it like other Bags rather than creating another item that can actually heal.

I'm ambivalent toward the Coral Sword change.  50% Add: Reflect is going to destroy teams that use White and Black Magick for support, given that Reflect lasts forever and is viewed as a positive buff.  If we're going to go ahead with this, I recommend making the proc no higher than 33%.  A WP buff is fine, too.

A legitimate point I guess even if I feel like White Magick could use some type of check as I've said and one entire element of Black Magick is unaffected, with the other having dubious side-effects on absorption anyway.

Still, 33% Add: Reflect and, what, 10 WP for Coral Sword sounds reasonable.

Speaking of adding Positive Buffs, I have another suggestion in the vein. In addition to becoming Dark Elemental, Iron Fan should also also add: Float at 50%. Similarly to adding Reflect, it screws up Earth Absorb teams by removing their ability to absorb and making allies immune to Earth.

I'd also back this additional change to Iron Fan.

[Dokurider]

In vain of this idea I suggested, (Wiznaibus losing the ability to damage altogether in turn for adding Poison and maybe Oil) I had another brainstorm about Singing and Dancing and I came up with a way to buff some unused Songs/Dances.

Nameless Song gains the ability to cancel Berserk, Frog, Undead and Death Sentence @ 40%.  No longer adds statuses.

This way, Nameless Song would act as a Status Protection spell. It would become really handy for protecting units that can't afford status protection. Meanwhile, it's current incarnation has ever been truly helpful.

Last Dance gains 25% of adding Dead.

Yeah CT 00 isn't getting us anywhere, so let's kick it up a notch, huh? Losing turns isn't as strong as gaining turns huh? Then how about losing your life?

I was discussing Life Song with FFM and I came away with the conclusion that Life Song isn't actually weak, but it's held back by it's parity with Wiznaibus and people just lost confidence in it. I think with another (minor) buff, and a little faith on the players' part, I think Life Song can be just as a good healing option as Cure or Item or any other healing spell out there.

Finally, I think the MP costs of the various songs and dances need to be adjusted to reflect their actual usefulness instead of being a flat 5 MP. I know Slow Dance could use an MP increase.

[Dokurider]

Actually scratch that Wiznaibus idea. Instead of fixing Wiznaibus, change Autopotion so that it only triggers on attacks that deal more than it can heal. That way, not only does that fix Wiznaibus' main problem, it also has the additional benefit of making Bags no longer complete and utter liabilities.

[reinoe]

Actually scratch that Wiznaibus idea. Instead of fixing Wiznaibus, change Autopotion so that it only triggers on attacks that deal more than it can heal. That way, not only does that fix Wiznaibus' main problem, it also has the additional benefit of making Bags no longer complete and utter liabilities.

I don't know what flags are available for the triggers for Autopotion but Wiznaibus is almost useless because of that one reaction.  PA/MA saves, and even HP RESTORE can be gotten around with proper team building.  If there was a way that Autopotion wouldn't trigger from Wiznaibus then that would greatly increase that ability's usefulness.

EDIT TO ADD: Does Projectile Guard work while charging?

[Dokurider]

EDIT TO ADD: Does Projectile Guard work while charging?

Yes

[Andante49]

Just a thought, making the Float status weak to wind so you have to "pay" for the immunity to Earth. Also in the same vein giving the elemental clothes a weakness that is hard to cover since the 20 HP price doesn't seem comparable to having two absorbs.

For Example:
Santa Outfit - Absorb: Ice, Wind Weak: Dark
Black Costume - Absorb: Fire, Dark Weak: Earth
Rubber Costume - Absorb Lightning, Water Weak: Fire

/my2cents

[reinoe]

We used to have "Float:weak air" but removed it.  I don't know the specific reasoning but Float is such a marginal status as it is, making it weaker to air would be detrimental to its use.

[Dokurider]

Yeah Float basically exists to counter balance the natural strength of the Earth element. It's strength mainly comes from Kikuimonji and Earth Slash, two abilities that allows Earth users to attack, heal and ultimately control a lot of ground, all in the same action, that makes it truly powerful. Even with Float's existence, Earth teams can still heal each other from across the map, while using other attacks to get around Float. Earth is the most powerful element to absorb in the game and that shouldn't be taken away from them. *hint hint leave Earth Slash as Earth Slash*

[Torgo]

If you insist on using something underused or underappreciated you can create a unit with Black Magic secondary.  I don't think anyone has done that.

spoiler: Opal

Opal
Female
Serpentarius
70
70
Samurai
Black Magic
Counter Magic
Magic Attack UP
Move MP Up
Chirijiraden
Circlet
Linen Robe
Magic Gauntlet

Kikuichimoji, Heaven's Cloud, Murasame, Masamune
Water, Water 2

The talk about Earth and Float is timely, because my original idea was to have her Two Swords it up with Chirijiraden (strengthen: Earth) and Kikuichimoji (33% Quake), than give her either Float or Diamond Armlet. That's a little too points intensive though, leaving little room for proper Black Magic, let alone a reaction or movement ability. In the end the weapon pairing is probably better suited for a Ninja with Equip Katana than a Samurai with Two Swords (which I don't mind saying is an idea I was kicking around when I first started putting my tournament team together).

I'm a little torn on if a Linen Robe is the best option. She's starving for MP and my original choice was Robe of Lords, but the HP boost on it leaves something to be desired and all that MP won't do her any good if she keeps getting knocked out. I tried workshopping a Black Robe and a Kiyomori, focusing more on general elemental damage, but it's middling HP and MP boosts seem to offer the worst of both.

The question remains if the AI will make use of Water, but outside of any proper mage class a female Samurai is the best bet if you want to secondary some Black Magic.

[Dokurider]

Bitch I'll do you one better:

spoiler

Female
40
70
Samurai
Black Magic
Counter
Magic Attack Up
Move MP Up
Muramasa

Circlet
Silk Robe
Defense Ring
Murasame
Ice, Water

Sup?

[Torgo]

Pshh, Heaven's Cloud's already got your Slow proc covered, and more stylishly at that. And that Defense Ring is great... if you're a wiener that's afraid of status effects. And Muramasa? Pfft.

I'll grant that she'd school mine in a 1v1, if only because of the Defense Ring and Faith proc, but in a real fight... hah.

But no seriously the Defense Ring is actually a solid idea. Dat Absorb: Water. And I can feel only having Murasame for Draw Outs... or at least omitting Masamune. I kind of go crazy every time a freshly revived unit goes straight for the Haste buff only to die again right after.

I do like the idea a lot though: A little tankier, countering with a guaranteed Faith proc and falling back with a nuke, presumably laughing the whole way.

[The Damned]

(...Or you could just have them both on the same team given how well they complement each other and given how much reinoe would like to see more people use Black Magic[k] as a secondary apparently. Just saying.)

Hmmmm...this makes me want to try another stab an all-Samurai team (for 1.39a), especially since I realized that much of the problem with the other one that Barren effortlessly kicked the ass of was a) using the currently suicidal Salty Rage and b) trying to rely on Song-boosting yet again. Hell, I was tempted to make an all-Bard team for the tournament just to prove how dumb current Bloody Strings can be given how high Magic Song is and really doesn't need to be.

Alas, I couldn't decide on a fourth unit I liked since I still needed more resurrection & AoE and already had one unit using Item. [/crap no one cares about]

Anyway, I figure I might as well respond to this stuff before I take a walk since I'm not going anywhere today apparently otherwise. As such, I'll probably try to get up the equipment count that I promised a while ago--of course--as well as the ability count since it's not like my neighborhood assholes are going to let me sleep anytime soon this fine fourth of July. (I say this as someone has already been setting off really loud fireworks/explosives even though it's not even dark. [/disdain for humanity and bullshit holidays])

In vain of this idea I suggested, (Wiznaibus losing the ability to damage altogether in turn for adding Poison and maybe Oil) I had another brainstorm about Singing and Dancing and I came up with a way to buff some unused Songs/Dances.

The more I think about it, the more I think that going either with your 66% All or Nothing Poison dance or a 50% Random Poison or Oil dance is better than my initially suggested All or Nothing 50% Poison & Oil dance. Wiznaibus as it stands now really does need to die, but the problem is replacing it with something that a) is actually useful, b) isn't overpowered or broken and c) doesn't step on the toes of anything else.

While a 66% Poison dance in a vacuum would probably be a good idea, it makes the already unused (effectively) Poison spell of Wizard even crappier, which seems..."bad".

Nameless Song gains the ability to cancel Berserk, Frog, Undead and Death Sentence @ 40%.  No longer adds statuses.

This way, Nameless Song would act as a Status Protection spell. It would become really handy for protecting units that can't afford status protection. Meanwhile, it's current incarnation has ever been truly helpful.

I'm...not sure how to feel about this, though I will admit it's not an entirely horrible idea.

I still say that letting Nameless Song have the ability to also add Haste in addition to the other statuses (maybe minus Reflect or Reraise) would a) get the A.I. to actively use it and b) definitely see it getting use.

If your above change were to happen, I would like to see it still be usable if the user is Frogged. There should be a way to do that (that I still haven't tested...).

Last Dance gains 25% of adding Dead.

Yeah CT 00 isn't getting us anywhere, so let's kick it up a notch, huh? Losing turns isn't as strong as gaining turns huh? Then how about losing your life?

Gods, no. By Odin, please no. Especially since Last Dance would probably still be Mimic-able, which would just lead to stupidity even if, yes, quite a few things block Dead. I'd rather not reduce the metagame to "Last Dance: Block it or Die!" even as much that would see it get more use.

Given it and Last Song should have never been that low to begin with, I think boosting it back up should be fine. Especially since it would probably be obnoxious if it was back to 50%.

(Damn. Maybe I should have made a team around Last Dance for the tournament, even if my luck with Dancers, Dance and other things that would make Last Dance "obnoxious" tend to be crap....)

I was discussing Life Song with FFM and I came away with the conclusion that Life Song isn't actually weak, but it's held back by it's parity with Wiznaibus and people just lost confidence in it. I think with another (minor) buff, and a little faith on the players' part, I think Life Song can be just as a good healing option as Cure or Item or any other healing spell out there.

Life Song could still probably use a bit of a boost and possibly stand to get its CT shortened to 5, though, since no one of the curing spells are that slow and everything else heals more. Hell, the Lores can be Short Charged and hit the enemy while also probably curing for more than Life Song with absorb, in addition to also not leaving the unit vulnerable through performing. So...yeah. I know a bunch of people found Life Song annoying when it was CT 4, especially with Mimes, but it could probably stand to be faster than CT 6 too, especially since Mimes aren't reliable.

Finally, I think the MP costs of the various songs and dances need to be adjusted to reflect their actual usefulness instead of being a flat 5 MP. I know Slow Dance could use an MP increase.

I completely agree with this. Slow Dance needs an increase in MP, as do Battle Song & Magic Song, especially if they stay at 66% rate instead of going back to 50% where they were already fine; Polka Polka & Disillusion need to always be cheaper than them though just because those abilities are so much harder to use and "should" always be less accurate anyway.

I'm not sure about the other Songs and Dances though, especially since we're talking about changing them:


1. Wiznaibus: Pretty much everyone agrees its current form needs to die.

2. Witch Hunt: I know I personally thought it could be slower (at CT 5) given people tend to agree that it could stand to cause MP loss. I don't think it needs an MP boost though, given Bizen Boat is free (though I've thought that Bizen Boat could may be nerfed "more" recently....). It also probably doesn't need an MP reduction given Magic Ruin costs 6 MP.

3. Nameless Dance: I still say this should lose Oil and get around to adding Don't Move instead, though that was partly dependent on the changes to Wiznaibus, so....

4. Angel Song: Probably the only Song that doesn't need a boost of ability or any change. Carbunkle only costs 5 MP, so....

5. Cheer Song: This could probably stand to be reduced to CT 8 given the A.I. will stop using it intelligently once the user starts to outspeed the resolution. With CT 10, that means a meager 10 Speed before the user just...keeps resetting the Song most likely. Reducing it to CT 8 (or even 9), would boost that to Speed 13 (or 12), which seems a lot more worthwhile, especially since it would no longer be effortlessly obviated by Quickening. Its MP would definitely have to increase, though, just because +1 Sp is really powerful (as I said when Quickening was first introduced).

6. Nameless Song: The current Nameless Song plus Haste could probably stand to be slightly more expensive than or equal to Protect & Shell in MP costs given those spell sees no real use.

7. Last Song: This could probably stand to be slightly more expensive than Last Dance even with their similar boosts just because, yeah, Quick tends to be a lot stronger than CT 00.


As a whole, Sing could probably be stand to be more MP expensive than Dance, especially if we're not making Sing subject to Silence, given that Sing has access to MP restoration while Dance...doesn't; well, that and I still say Sing is overall more flexible and "better" than Dance. (Hunh. I just now realized that Bards have less MP than Dancer.)

Actually scratch that Wiznaibus idea. Instead of fixing Wiznaibus, change Autopotion so that it only triggers on attacks that deal more than it can heal. That way, not only does that fix Wiznaibus' main problem, it also has the additional benefit of making Bags no longer complete and utter liabilities.

Meh. That seems both like a pain in the ass and unnecessary given that a) Wiznaibus would still suck compared to Lore even with Auto Potion, especially with Mimes becoming able to equip things in 1.39a, and b) Bags deserve to be "liabilities" for their ubiquity and flexibility.

Not that I'd mind the change, really, especially just to know the amount of difficulty it took to get done, but, again, "meh".

Just a thought, making the Float status weak to wind so you have to "pay" for the immunity to Earth.

Again, "meh". For one thing, Float status is viewed a positive status, which is why I've always been hesistant at adding an outright weakness to Wind even if it makes "sense". Besides, Float doesn't make you completely immune to Earth since you can still be smacked in the face by Earth-element weapons for neutral damage. It only makes you immune to Earth element (non-weapon-based?) abilities, which as Dokurider has pointed out, are all pretty damn good (except maybe the current Titan and even that's been shown to be threatening by Jumza).

Also in the same vein giving the elemental clothes a weakness that is hard to cover since the 20 HP price doesn't seem comparable to having two absorbs.

For Example:
Santa Outfit - Absorb: Ice, Wind Weak: Dark
Black Costume - Absorb: Fire, Dark Weak: Earth
Rubber Costume - Absorb Lightning, Water Weak: Fire

/my2cents

I suppose that you have something of a point about 20 HP not being enough, even if ignoring the current state of Oil. Given the fact that I argued that the dual-absorb Clothes "needed" MP and that Oil's severity is likely getting reduced, though, the dual-absorb Clothes could probably stand to 10 more MP even if they don't strengthen at all or self-strengthen like Earth Clothes.

Maybe.

*shrugs*