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Which plot should the main story revolve around?

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Neophyte's Revised Plot

Community Mod  (Read 27018 times)
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Quman [Posts: 34]
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  • [June 05, 2012, 10:52:41 PM]
Re: Community Mod
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2012, 10:52:41 PM »
Why would we need a new set of charge skills? I assume the archer is going to be replaced with something else anyway, so couldn't we just give the archer's old skill set to the Treasure Hunter? Not that it really matters. The only reason I gave the class a skill set at all was because the game already had one that relied so heavily on the equipped weapon.

And the fact that the arsenal would need to replace existing items was part of the reason this class is only intended for late game use. If the Ninja gets removed, that frees up six items for use in the Treasure Hunter's arsenal, which is actually a pretty decent selection.
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Elric (Overseer) [Posts: 4038]
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  • [June 05, 2012, 11:18:02 PM]
Re: Community Mod
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2012, 11:18:02 PM »
Interesting idea, Qumon, but I'm not sure that would be easily implemented. In FFTPatcher, the Charge abilities have their own format, different from other abilities.
*Cough* Existing ASM *Cough*

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    formerdeathcorps [Posts: 1322]
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    • [June 25, 2012, 04:33:59 AM]
    Re: Community Mod
    « Reply #22 on: June 25, 2012, 04:33:59 AM »
    Suggestions:
    1) Give Knight's skillset to Archer.  This was already proven to be the most lethal breaking combination, but breaks are mostly underwhelming.
    2) Give Squire the Charge abilities.  Since this skillset was already underwhelming on Archer, give squire access to all weapons equips and balanced stats [to use them].
    3) Turn monster poaching into souls and turn draw out into Animists that consume souls to deal AoE damage.  Kind of like CCP's torero, but much weaker in effects.

    Quote
    Animist:
    EQ: Bag, Knife, Instrument, Clothes, Hat, Accesories
    INNATE: Secret Hunt

    Feathery Soul      Poach from Chocobo/Juravis, Draw Out Radius +Reflect AND Regen
    Demonic Soul       Poach from Skeleton/Ghost, Draw Out Radius +Undead
    Draconic Soul      Poach from Dragon/Tiamat, Draw Out Radius, MA * 10 Damage
    Horned Soul        Poach from Minotaur/Behemoth, Draw Out Radius, Enemies Only, Fire Elemental, MA * 8 Damage
    Plain Soul         Poach from Goblin/Cuar, Draw Out Radius, Enemies Only, Nature Elmental, MA * 8 Damage
    Sapient Soul       Poach from Squidlarken/Dryad, Draw Out Radius (include Self), MA * 10 Healing
    Abomination Soul   Poach from Murbol/Floatiball, Draw out Radius, +Blind
    Bomb Soul          Poach from Bombs [rare], Draw Out Radius, Kill Self, Deal maxHP - curHP DMG to units in range
    Pig Soul           Poach from Uribo, Draw Out Radius, MA * 5 MP Healing
    Lucavi Soul        Drop from Lucavi, Draw Out Radius, Enemies Only, +Death Sentence

    Auto Potion        Use a potion and heal for Max{LVL, 30} HP, IF NONE, FAIL
    Secret Hunt

    Obviously, as part and parcel to this suggestion, I suggest fusing water and ice element.  They're virtually the same thing.  We can then add in a nature element, which we can say is the element of spells like hell ivy or bio.
    This also removes Katanas as a class of useable weapons.

    My advice to people is to not stint their imaginations.
    1) Limiting classes strictly to support or offense or hybrid seems to go against the idea of FFT, which gave healing spells to summoners, offense to priests, guns to chemists, and so on.  If anything, everything should be a hybrid.
    2) Most mechanics that don't currently exist I can make by ASM.  Trust me, I'm willing to fully support this project.
    « Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 02:22:36 AM by formerdeathcorps »
    The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
    The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.
    ShadowSkyle [Posts: 86]
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    • [June 25, 2012, 06:37:56 AM]
    Re: Community Mod
    « Reply #23 on: June 25, 2012, 06:37:56 AM »
    Very nice ideas, and I appreciate the support and offer to help. I'll add those ideas to the collection.
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    formerdeathcorps [Posts: 1322]
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    • [June 25, 2012, 07:02:37 AM]
    Re: Community Mod
    « Reply #24 on: June 25, 2012, 07:02:37 AM »
    Technically, it's more like Onion Knight with Charge since the intent is to let squires equip everything.

    Also, as a community vote, do we want a fun patch?  One where we change the story and make new events?  A difficulty patch?  A new features patch?  Or is all this still up for decision after we sort out jobs?

    To sort out the community vote (in the future) over patch priorities, I think we should also list what kind of things we'd like to see in a patch and vote by giving priority lists.  Some things off the top of my head that people want out of patches are:
    Fun
    Difficulty
    Re-balance
    New Events/Plot
    New Mechanics
    Sticking to FF(T) Canon/FF(T) characters
    Hosting (AI) tournaments with this patch

    Feel free to add to this list.  Obviously, not all of the options are mutually exclusive, but they're not all simultaneously possible as well.
    The only reason why I bring this up is because FFH has been traditionally split between many different factions favoring different priorities in patches.  If we want a truly communal patch, we'll need to determine these priorities to reduce arguments and infighting.
    « Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 07:14:50 AM by formerdeathcorps »
    The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
    The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.
    Neophyte Ronin [Posts: 144]
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    • [June 25, 2012, 04:05:12 PM]
    Re: Community Mod
    « Reply #25 on: June 25, 2012, 04:05:12 PM »
    Job Name: Ranger
    Job Purpose: Versatile Combatant but lacking in selection: unarmed, bows, crossbows, & knives.  May Dual-Wield with knives or fists.  Known for solid damage output against specific single targets but struggles with crowd control and lacks staying power.  Reasonably agile.  Melee & Ranged, Damage and light Harassment, but no Support or Tank function.  Innate Poach, Dual-Wield, and Reequip.

    Job Description: A skillful wanderer of the wilds who tracks down and slays any creature in any environment.
    Gender Availability: Both
    Skillset Name: Stalk
    Skillset Description: Ranger Class Command.  Strikes down prey with murderous precision and mundane savvy.
    Ability Types: "As Weapon" instant Attack Modifications similar to Art of War/Battle Skill and Snipe/Aimed Shot.  This will require a couple things.  First, you have to be able to flag certain characters and monsters as specific creatures, or being magical, and that this may extend to Classes as well.  Second, the skills will only target these characters.  There will also be a few that work on anybody, just to be nice about it.

    Envenom - Adds Poison to Target.
    Fiery Hit - Modifies hit into a Fire Affinity attack (often to make fire arrows or to ignite blades); supplants a weapon's other effects.
    Goblin Killer - Attempts to score a lethal blow against a Goblin-Type enemy, killing them on success.
    Magislayer - Attempts to score a crippling blow against any magic user, which includes certain monsters and many Classes such as the Black Mage or Summoner.  Character must be flagged as "Magic" as part of their description like how monsters may be flagged as Draconic or Undead.  This will add damage, but does not dish out instant kills.
    Pin Down - Surgically pin an opponent to a position, adding CT 0.  Always hits.  Should be reapplied regularly to hold sucker in position so others can help kill it.  Also cancels Preparation conditions (Defend, Perform, Charge/Cast).
    Dragontear - Surgically damage dragons.  May also affect Dragoon/Lancers (so if Reis has her Dragonkin abilities, it'll affect them), severing the sanctity of the Order of Dragon's covenant with the proud beasts.
    Exorcism - While Seal Evil and Raise 2/Arise are good, this delivers a powerful chastisement upon an Undead creature that adds one of a list of debilitating status effects that would conceivably affect their ability to fight back (so no Poison or Faith, since these don't appear to affect them so much).
    Kill Horror - Deal better damage against Lovecraftian Horrors such as Illithids (the fucking Pisco Demons), Marlboroughs and even late-game freaks like Archaic, Ultimate, and Reaver-type opponents.  This could also overlap with Eye Beasts, assuming they are also flagged as magical.  But this is for those times when you want the creature to die faster.

    Additional Info: The Ranger is an offshoot or hybrid of the Ninja and Archer respectively.  Instead of Throw or Charge/Aim, a new set of abilities comes into place.  Rangers, in Dungeons & Dragons, habitually possess either Dual-Wield or Archery combat mastery, and in the MMO, they get both.  They also acquire camouflage so adding Sunken State to the list of Reaction Abilities seems in good order.  However, you can chuck a few things here and there.  I mean, here's what a Ranger looks like, overall:

    Equip Dagger, Bow, Crossbow, Hat, Outfit, all Accessories; cannot equip shields like the Archer did while using Crossbows
    Innate Dual-Wield (optional), Poach
    Reaction Abilities: Sunken State, Adrenaline, Archer's Bane
    Support Abilities: Equip Crossbow, Concentrate, Poach, Train (cannot teach Dual-Wield if Dual-Wield is featured)
    Movement Abilities: Probably some low-to-mid grade number like Jump + 2 or Move + 2, or Swim, or Terrain-Oriented ones like Any Ground & Any Weather (modified or hybridized with other effects so as to be more attractive to players).

    In all, this one's likely to get thrown out without heavy modification, but feel free to switch things around if you like.  If having to flag creatures as a certain type seems too daunting, it would be best to use something else in its place, only no Aim/Charge.  That just gets dull.
    ShadowSkyle [Posts: 86]
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    • [June 25, 2012, 05:19:40 PM]
    Re: Community Mod
    « Reply #26 on: June 25, 2012, 05:19:40 PM »
    @formerdeathcorps: I think that will be the first poll we take, seeing where everyone wants the patch to go.

    @Neophyte Ronin: I know I've seen several posts in the past about reasons against innate poaching, and flagging each monster and class may or may not be viable. We'll see if the class makes it into the mod and tackle the concept then!
    Bad code, beware! The NOPs are coming to eat you!
    formerdeathcorps [Posts: 1322]
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    • [June 25, 2012, 07:57:16 PM]
    Re: Community Mod
    « Reply #27 on: June 25, 2012, 07:57:16 PM »
    Here's another class edit.

    Quote
    Geomancer
    EQ: Sword, Axe, Instrument, Shield, Clothes, Robe, Hat, Accessories
    INNATE: Move-in Water, Move-on Lava

    Pitfall       Earth Elemental, +19% Don't Move
    Water Ball    Water Elemental, +19% Frog
    Hell Ivy      Nature Elemental, +19% Poison AND Blind
    Carve Model   Earth Elemental, does more damage than the others
    Local Quake   Earth Elemental, +19% Slow
    Kamaitachi    Wind Elemental, +50% Cancel: Protect, Shell, Reflect
    Demon Fire    Fire Elemental, +19% Oil
    Quicksand     Water Elemental, +19% Stop
    Sand Storm    Earth Elemental, +19% Sleep
    Blizzard      Water Elemental, +19% Addle
    Gusty Wind    Wind Elemental, +19% Don't Act
    Lava Ball     Fire Elemental, +19% Dead

    Counter Flood
    Move-in Water
    Move-on Lava

    Again, we assume the fusion of water and ice elemental as well as the conversion of silence to addle (which effectively means making silence affect every skill).
    « Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 08:49:22 PM by formerdeathcorps »
    The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
    The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.
    Quman [Posts: 34]
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    • [June 25, 2012, 09:23:19 PM]
    Re: Community Mod
    « Reply #28 on: June 25, 2012, 09:23:19 PM »
    Would it be a bad idea to scrap the Oracle and give renamed versions of its spells to the Black Mage and White Mage to make them more versatile? The White Mage isn't in any particular need for greater versatility, so I don't care too much about giving it more spells, but the Black Mage's focus on doing damage and almost nothing else makes the move set easily replaceable by any other class that has good damage output.

    The Black Mage could take Blind, Osmose, Drain, Sleep, and Break. The White Mage could take Silence, Berserk, Confuse, and Dispel. You could also give Disable to the Time Mage if it still exists in this hack.
    Bad code, beware! The NOPs are coming to eat you!
    formerdeathcorps [Posts: 1322]
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    • [June 26, 2012, 02:25:15 AM]
    Re: Community Mod
    « Reply #29 on: June 26, 2012, 02:25:15 AM »
    While we're at it, can we please remove Chemist as a class?  It should not require JP to learn how to open a corked bottle and drink the contents.

    The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
    The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.
    ShadowSkyle [Posts: 86]
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    • [June 26, 2012, 03:44:21 AM]
    Re: Community Mod
    « Reply #30 on: June 26, 2012, 03:44:21 AM »
    Lol. Very true. However, what do we do with the item skillset? Without it, you can't use items. With it, you can't add anything to the class (as items require opening the item inventory, limiting the skillset to items only)
    Azamuth [Posts: 1]
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    • [June 26, 2012, 04:23:42 AM]
    Re: Community Mod
    « Reply #31 on: June 26, 2012, 04:23:42 AM »
    I'm quite new in creating these, but I thought up this class for my own mod, but for my current level of skill (which is 0) it is just not plausible. At first I wanted to make one for each sign, but then I didn't know if I could make each class specific for that Zodiac Sign..*sigh* anyways, hope it's a good one. :mrgreen:

    Job Name: Zodiac Knight
    Job Purpose: Damage/Tank
    Job Description: A Knight who was taught some of the abilities of the mythical "Zodiac Braves".
    Gender Availability: Both
    Skillset Name: Zodiac/Zodiark(So the class name and Skillset are not THAT alike)
    Skillset Description: Enables the use of the Zodiac Braves' Abilities.
    Ability Types: I imagine it would be something like Beowulf's abilities, but with elemental for the damages. Ex: Aquarius would be water Elemental, while Pisces non-elemental but based on MA/Faith.
    Additional Info: Since they made up the Serpentarius Sign, there could be something of an Ultimate skill, only learnable after learning the others, or after a certain point in the game. The Zodiac Knight should also have the ability to buff his own defense, or mark himself as a target, so that the other members may heal/prepare themselves.
    Fosil [Posts: 54]
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    • [June 26, 2012, 06:27:52 AM]
    Re: Community Mod
    « Reply #32 on: June 26, 2012, 06:27:52 AM »
    I was honestly toying with the idea of making a mod, myself. However, it is a huge undertaking--not to mention time investment. My idea was to continue the story after The War of the Lions--but around ~20 years later. I have a skeleton of the story ready if shown interest.

    As for the jobs I was envisioning, I was inspired by the Khamja, whose members include the likes of Rapha & Marach, Illua & Ewen among others. (From FFWiki: "The clan is considered incredibly powerful and dangerous, having access to spells, weapons, and Job classes that other clans cannot obtain.")

    My submission:
    Job name: Harbinger
    Job purpose: Support/Harassment
    Job description: Heralds of astrology who warp the dimensions of time and space. Uses Astrology to manipulate fate and sway the course of battle.
    Genders: Both
    Skillset Name: Astrology
    Skillset Description: Harbinger job command. This augur toys with the laws of the universe.
    Ability Types: (General 'Time Magic' spells, but re-purposed and re-envisioned, with more emphasis on "space" or placement.)
    Here is a small sample of possible abilities: (Speed/MP values withheld for the sake of avoiding complexity.)

    Astral Flux - ~100 JP - Hastens the passage of time of those in line with the stars. (Add: Haste. Effects all nearby units in range of 1.)
    Phase Grip - ~250 JP - Halts the passage of time with the pulse of a star, severing the target from time's flow. (Add: Stop. Effects only one unit within a range of 3.
    Dimensional Rift - ~450 JP - Tears holes in the fabric of time. Reduces the HP of units in a large area by 33%. (Range of 2, AoE Effect range of 2 (always effects caster), vertical range of 3)
    Time Reversal - ~550 JP - Rewind the stars, balancing time and even reversing death itself. (Cancels all: Dead, Haste, Slow. Centered on caster, radius of 1.)
    Celestial Stasis - ~650 JP - Halt the course of enemies' guardian stars, rendering them, and yourself, completely unable to act. (Inflicts any: Stop, Don't Act, Don't Move. Centered on caster, radius of 3 or 4, infinite vertical tolerance.)
    Parallel Balance - Hidden ability/Auto-Learned/0 JP - Warps time and space to inflict damage commensurate with the damage the user has endured. (Requires Critical status on caster. Range of 5. Effect of 1.)
    Temporal Boon - Hidden ability/Auto-Learned/0 JP - Voids your existence while gifting a second chance to another. (Cancel: Stop, Sleep, Petrify; Adds: Quick, Haste. Requires Critical or Doom status on caster & kills caster after casting. Range of ~5 (or infinite range?))
    SUPPORT
    Alacrity (Short Charge) - Halves CT of Spells and Abilities

    Additional Info: (Inspired by the "Nightshade" class of FFTA.) As such, and with a job name such as 'Harbinger', I would style them as sword/katana-bearing dimensional warriors that can equip robes for added flavor.)

    As for its abilities, I was trying to go for inter-skill conflict. (Abilities should conflict with one another.) However... use 'Dimensional Rift' three times, and then use 'Parallel Balance' to great effect?

    On the grand scale, I figure each job's skillset will have a couple of auto-learned/invisible abilities that are only useable when Critical/Doomed respectively. (Doom wouldn't be inflictable by the player.)

    Quman [Posts: 34]
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    • [June 26, 2012, 08:05:26 AM]
    Re: Community Mod
    « Reply #33 on: June 26, 2012, 08:05:26 AM »
    I know there's ASM to give every unit the item command (though I'm pretty sure enemies don't actually make use of it.) If you could combine that ASM with some method of making the item command mastered by default then every player-controlled unit would have access to items.
    Bad code, beware! The NOPs are coming to eat you!
    formerdeathcorps [Posts: 1322]
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    • [June 26, 2012, 02:21:16 PM]
    Re: Community Mod
    « Reply #34 on: June 26, 2012, 02:21:16 PM »
    Shadow, we technically have 16 submissions: you forgot to add the Geomancer of mine.

    Quman, the problem with that ASM (even after I removed the bugs) is that a unit would learn three skillsets.  Besides the obvious balance problems, if the primary and secondary skillsets both have 16 attacks, the AI may not learn all the skills in all three skillsets.

    I think the best idea may be to combine the THROW and ITEM skillsets.  In other words, something like this:

    Quote
    Juggler
    EQ: Knife, Sword, Bag, Clothes, Hat, Accessories
    INNATE: Throw Item

    Knife
    Shuriken 
    Ball
    Axe
    Spear
    Item

    Throw Item

    This would require some ASM work, but the effects include:
    1) Throwing anything would always have 1 range, unless you have throw item, which turns 1 range into 4.
    2) Throwing items now follow line of sight, meaning it is now possible to heal unintended targets.  It would no longer be possible to heal units separated from the healer by large height differences.  An example of the latter means that if you are at Zirekile, attempts to use PD on the unit directly above you on the bridge will fail.
    3) There should exist specially designated throwing weapons [i.e. throwing axe, javelin, weighted dagger] and we can even add special effects to throw (like +Critical, +Range, Proc: Spell) and so on if we do some more ASM hacking.

    Consequences:
    Juggler would probably have to be a basic class because it knows Throw: Item.  This may mean that we would need three basic classes rather than two.
    « Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 02:53:20 PM by formerdeathcorps »
    The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
    The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.
    Bad code, beware! The NOPs are coming to eat you!
    formerdeathcorps [Posts: 1322]
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    • [June 26, 2012, 03:08:12 PM]
    Re: Community Mod
    « Reply #35 on: June 26, 2012, 03:08:12 PM »
    Another class to edit with ASM:

    Quote
    Lancer
    EQ: Spear, Axe, Shield, Armor, Robe, Helm, Accessories
    INNATE: JUMP 1v1

    Jump Level +1  (+1 Range/Tolerance)
    Jump Level +1  (+1 Range/Tolerance)
    Jump Level +1  (+1 Range/Tolerance)
    Jump Level +1  (+1 Range/Tolerance)
    Jump Level +1  (+1 Range/Tolerance)

    Equip Spear
    Equip Armor

    The reasons for this edit is to make the player buy all the lancer skills (rather than just Level Jump and Vertical Jump 8).  I admit this skillset is still a bit boring, but lancer's JUMP is a very strong ability between unevadeability [outside of blade grasp], the 1.5x spear damage boost, 8 Range (at vertical tolerance 8), and the invincibility while jumping.  In fact, this edit would make lancer a decent early game class, and if we were going for a balance patch, we could even remove the 1.5x damage boost at no real harm to lancer [who still has the best charged ability in the game].
    « Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 03:24:16 PM by formerdeathcorps »
    The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
    The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.
    ShadowSkyle [Posts: 86]
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    • [June 26, 2012, 05:45:03 PM]
    Re: Community Mod
    « Reply #36 on: June 26, 2012, 05:45:03 PM »
    I like the idea of mixing throw/item. Gives both a little more viability. And it could easily be made a third basic class. We would just branch out in three different ways: Physical, Magic, and Other (support, etc. Whatever it winds up being called)

    I also really like altering the jump skill to make all of them required. Always thought it should have been that way to begin with.
    Bad code, beware! The NOPs are coming to eat you!
    formerdeathcorps [Posts: 1322]
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    • [June 26, 2012, 08:12:15 PM]
    Re: Community Mod
    « Reply #37 on: June 26, 2012, 08:12:15 PM »
    Two more ideas:

    Performer (fuse bard and dancer's skillsets into one; male uses bard sprite, female uses dancer sprite)

    If we're making a balance patch and keeping calculator, here are two mutually exclusive suggestions:
    Quote
    Calculator:
    EQ: Stick, Rod, Staff, Robes, Clothes, Hats, Accessories

    CT3 (If you choose CT, your second parameter is automatically 3)
    LevelPrime (If you choose Level, your second parameter is automatically Prime)
    Height5 (If you choose Height, your second parameter is automatically 5)
    EXP4 (If you choose EXP, your second parameter is automatically 4)

    Calculable Spells:
    The entire vanilla skillset except Holy, Flare, Raise2, Foxbird, Petrify, Stop, Frog, Sleep, Don't Act, Demi2

    Quote
    Red Mage:
    EQ: Sword, Knife, Shield, Robes, Clothes, Hats, Accessories

    Level
    EXP
    Height
    Prime
    5
    4

    Calculable Spells:
    Fire
    Ice
    Bolt
    Cure
    Regen
    Reraise
    Dispel Magic
    Esuna
    Pray Faith  (needs a formula not dependent on faith)
    Doubt Faith (needs a formula not dependent on faith)
    Zombie
    Poison
    Blind
    Don't Move
    Reflect
    Float
    Demi / Life Drain (Either is fine.)

    I personally prefer Red Mage to Calculator (because there isn't a sword-mage in FFT and I like hybrids) and it's more interesting to use.
    « Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 09:45:55 PM by formerdeathcorps »
    The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
    The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.
    ShadowSkyle [Posts: 86]
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    • [June 26, 2012, 08:44:40 PM]
    Re: Community Mod
    « Reply #38 on: June 26, 2012, 08:44:40 PM »
    To keep the class viable, there will likely need to be some more spells added, but that's a simple trial and error process.


    I'm about to start making polls, but I don't want to spam this forum with polls for the mod. Any thoughts? Perhaps the community mod discussion can get it's own spot on the forums where each poll can be posted?
    « Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 01:30:48 AM by ShadowSkyle »
    Bad code, beware! The NOPs are coming to eat you!
    formerdeathcorps [Posts: 1322]
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    • [June 27, 2012, 04:32:08 AM]
    Re: Community Mod
    « Reply #39 on: June 27, 2012, 04:32:08 AM »
    Add the polls in this topic; I'll have Eternal do the advertising on IRC and in the News topic.

    The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
    The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.
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