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Community Mod

Started by ShadowSkyle, May 19, 2012, 10:30:52 pm

Which plot should the main story revolve around?

Initial Contact With Lucavi
Conscript
Neophyte's Revised Plot

ShadowSkyle

The first poll, Mod Difficulty, is up. Vote now!

Neophyte Ronin

I don't know where or why I came up with all this, but I figured I'd share it anyway.  Tear 'em all dead if you like.

Chemists do not suck enough to drop.

"While we're at it, can we please remove Chemist as a class?  It should not require JP to learn how to open a corked bottle and drink the contents."

First of all: nice how everyone intellectualizes the unnerving notion that handling sensitive chemicals is somehow willy-fuggin'-nilly.

Medical Profession Workers Ought to be Offended.

How long does it take to count thirty capsules?  Not long, but you sort of forget everything else that comes with the job.  Did you know your neighborhood pharmacist required six years of medical school?  Apothecaries had written extensive tomes that took just as long to read from top to bottom.  Don't tell me everybody who drinks up and shoots in is a credible practitioner of medicine.  http://www.nuklearpower.com/2001/10/26/episode-090-it-wouldve-been-a-good-idea/  The Black Mage should clue you in on how video games and players really treat medicine, and the profession.


Chemists are Fine.

You could always shuffle them to another slot.  You can't convince me someone made a hack where the Item Command is Innate but enemy units don't bother with it.  That's like those trolls who made a fake preview of a game that resembles an "Ivalice Alliance Compilation" game.  It's just too good to be true, and it is.  It's because either way, it's a big cheat.  Cheaters.  The computer AI should have the same access as the player.  That does cause headaches, but at least it isn't fake easiness.  That's why they retooled Transparent to prevent the AI from disregarding Transparent Units.

(What's Transparent Got to Do With It?)

See, this hack's parameters resemble a familiar double-standard.  I like Transparent, even if FFT+ treats it poorly.  It gives you a chance to strike unhindered by direct evasion, but if another foe's turn comes up and nails you, because it can, you might not trigger Sunken State a second time.  Why the pinhead can actually see you (and gravitate toward you instead of weaker targets) remains unknown.

What?  That goes against the very concept of the Class that learns Sunken State!

If you insist on changing things, have Transparent double direct evasion but negate magic evasion, like Vanish from FFVI.  Foes have a general impression, but their attacks are less than accurate.  The AI gravitates toward Transparent units anyway.  It's fun until a fireball swats you even though you had that Aegis Shield set up for that purpose.

Point being: never remove one function without serious consideration.  If so, consider modifying features to better reflect the spirit of the original concept.

Note: If someone already made a hack that does what I just described, then forget I said anything.  I appreciate that someone thought of this way before I did.


Now, if you wish to make the Item Command Innate, then not everything should be available all at once.  I know the AI too well; if they have Item, they will use Potions and back off.  It's frustrating.  They shouldn't have access to Phoenix Downs off the bat either, let alone items that aren't even sold in stores yet.  These are legitimate concerns.  I can understand why the hacker would incorporate AI non-knowledge of an Innate Item Command upon all characters, no matter how one-sided it really is.

Hence, limit initial character knowledge.  The command is Innate, just not the whole inventory.  Nobody should understand anything about esoteric or tricky products, to prevent the AI from revival sand-bagging unless playing an actual Chemist.  Have simple stuff featured.  Any Innate standard issue options don't need to grace the list of whatever command ability facilitates the licensing.  There would also be options exclusive to the Class' unique Command List, which would not show the Item from the standard Command, perhaps a subset of the original (see below).

To improve viability of medicine, alter the formulas.  It should not be a shitty set number antiquated at Level 99 (Tactics was never play-tested past 60).  Instead, apply percentages (e.g. 25%MaxHP for regular Potions).  This prevents Potions from being used despite a miserable yield later in the game as seen in Vanilla, thus making the AI look intelligent for once.  Battle Number Two goes quicker if the Chemist is the last one standing, let me clue you.  25% won't quite save the little bastard.  If you're unsure about how far 25% goes in the early game, just have it also add Regen, so Potions also stand out next to their big brothers.

I can see, further down the road, a unit quaffing one potion and getting enough health to return to the fray, instead of quaffing six in a row before thinking about it.  There is that threshold where the unit stops trying to recover and returns to the fray, and it can be done in one shot.  25% may not be enough to hit the ground running, yet it prevents one from thinking that potions only take up Inventory Space after Level 40.  Hi-Potions and X-Potions perform the job they are historically known for: halfway to full healing.  They'd be mighty-expensive, or procured from poaching.

Instead of knowing how to apply a Phoenix Down upon a profusely bled-out companion (and try to keep a straight face) while goblins beat on them right from the git-go, units should take up a Chemist Class to learn further tricks and properly handle medicines under undue pressure to save lives on the fly.  Increase the Chemist's ability with Item Throw and "Medicine", which doubles the effect of numerical medicines (e.g. potions curing 50%).  When porting any Chemistry-oriented Support to another Class, you'll have to decide between flexible and immediate long-distance response, or simply staying adjacent to units on standby and doing the job right the first time.

If everyone can use Items but not know everything about Items, then the Chemist's Command List should not be a duplicate Item Command.  Perhaps retool a subset of items for a special Command Ability modeled after FFV, when Chemists' special command was called "Drink" (or something translated better).  It allowed access to useful brews such as Speed Potions, cast upon oneself.  Some of those abilities were far more useful in other classes.  In this case, call it "Homebrew" or something and reconfigure Antidotes, Eyedrops, or other lesser status medicine that Remedy otherwise supplants; each ability is auto-range only and consumes a unique Item.

If this compromise for the Chemist doesn't satisfy anybody, then add a list of abilities that involve firearms, or something else entirely.  Doesn't matter.  Just don't make every Item accessible to all and negate enemy access to it.  That's all.

[/spoiler]

"Innate Commands" inspired a wide variety of suggestions for modifying characters across the board.

Innate Technical Proficiency.

Tactics Rebirth uses this concept by making a Class' Learned Abilities Innate to the Class, an interesting notion that retains balance and adds flavor.  It can be extended to Special Classes to better approximate them to related generics.  Dome homogenizes Classes' equipment options with universal Dagger equip and Defend for all.

Why we Shouldn't Try It.

Dome even put in Treasure-Finder on everybody so we won't need to pick-and-choose Movement Abilities.  Then he gave the incentive of adding Elixirs to battlefields.  However, this created headaches since EVERY enemy unit across the battlefield would happen upon the fucking elixir I was gunning for (soft reset, soft reset, soft reset...).

So watch out with universal Innates, okay?  It can backfire tremendously.  If anybody can use it, anybody can use it.


Assuming a Wizard/Cleric/Fighter relation, we can say that everyone can swing a dagger, but some can gird themselves for attack and a select few among them can parry also.  This prevents players from surrendering a Support or Reaction slot for something the Class should have by virtue of relative deftness.  It promotes flexibility, retains the idioms of characters, and can include non-Morale reactions and oft-overlooked Command Abilities.

If innate Abandon is used, I would recommend that Class not be allowed to equip Cloaks.  That's just pushing it.  (Do Ninjas even wear cloaks?  Wouldn't that cause drag while running around?)

Suggested Branches:

Fighter Branch: Knight, Archer, Dragoon, Samurai, possibly Dancer but never Bard.  Innate Weapon Guard and Defend.

Wizard Branch: Black Mage, Chemist, Time Mage, Mediator, Summoner, Calculator, Bard, Mime.  Despite mastery of esoterica, their instincts omit full battle-readiness and struggle to avoid attacks.  No Innate Weapon Guard or Defend.

Cleric Branch: White Mage, Squire, Monk, Thief, Ninja, Geomancer, Oracle/Onmyoshi, Dancer (if not a Fighter).  They exhibit enough combat readiness to avoid blows--just not with blades.  Innate Defend.


Characters might get Innate Command Abilities to free up paltry Command sets and allow new lists, like the Chemist example.  For instance, the Lancer/Dragoon may learn Jump Range from the Dragonkin Command list, but have innate Jump and grant this to others via the Dragon Spirit Reaction Ability (or Equip Spear, which almost makes sense but would homogenize full Jump power for all in one ability; Lancer/Dragoons should remain unique at some level).  Dragon Spirit also makes a Class besides the Lancer a technical Dragon, in that Dragonkin Abilities, pilfered from Reis, affect that Target.  This lets you ditch Reis in case you wanted an original script that didn't involve her, but keep her abilities.

A more obvious and implementable example is Throw.  Multiple Classes should have this by default.  That's described further below.

Combat and Savvy

You can put these kinds of abilities into a three-by-three grid to determine the flavor of a Unit:

Combat Progression West to East
Savvy Progression North to South
 
              Nothing               Defend      Weapon Guard

Nothing    Probably a Mage   Cleric        Fencer 

Throw      Glass Cannon       Rogue       Ranger

Abandon   Spoony Bard        Ninja         WTF


Reasoning Behind Proficiencies

Now, in D&D 3.5, you had Fighters, Clerics, and Wizards.  The Fighter's Base Attack Bonus was consistent with Level, while Clerics were three of four and Wizards had half; the latter-most could fight, but not as well, at least by 3.5 theory.  Fighters still get shafted overall; very few survive to 20, or 30, considering the official Feat system does not go far enough.

Classes exhibit a similar Base Attack Bonus accrual progression as Fighters, Clerics, and Wizards.  You could introduce fraction formulas for multi-class characters but, for some ungodly reason, everyone who plays a math-centric game sucks at math and ignores that option completely, no matter how it addresses a boatload of problems.

Depressing I'm sure, and fallacious.  But that's beside the point.

The point is that Classes in Tactics exhibit similarities to D&D 3.5 ones.  The Geomancer and Druid, White Mage and Cleric, Black Mage and Wizard (well, several Classes fall under that one), often parallel each other.  Thus, we add martial qualities consistent with the Base Strike Bonus idea: Fighters get a few, Clerics get one, and Wizards get fuggin' squat.  This could be extended to how savvy we think a Character should be, and boom!

Though we cannot incorporate the D20, Celdia did such a marvelous job at making parallels that I wanted to hug her (though, in some cases, they came off as impractical or downright imbalanced).  Adding Innate Abilities to Classes that make sense with their character improves their playability, flavor, and can introduce challenges that do not cross into fake difficulty territory.






Chuck-Wagon

Back in V and VI, Throw was infallible except in extreme circumstances and exhibited a certain bad-ass angle.  It also meant you're wasting a chunk of metal.  Vanilla?  It's based on Speed and Weapon and can be avoided.  The power sucks for what it's worth. Fine.

#1: Reconfigure Throw Stone to have a Range as Move like Throw and include it in the list; an infinite option, or fall-back.
#2: Double damage for weapon throws (it was doubled back then) to make it worth a player's investment.
#3: Characters with Innate Throw: Squire, Archer, Monk, Thief, Ninja, Dancer, and possibly Bard.
#4: Incorporate Innate "Throw:Dagger" directive; it works in tandem with all Classes equipping daggers (again, thank you Dome).
#5: Ninjas can access Shuriken and Ball only via Command Ability List (I like how Dome limited Throw to that, but he did it to prevent abuses related to Throw).
#6: Modify "Equip Merits that nobody cares about" to include the ability to Throw that merit equipment in question, with few exceptions.  Equip Spear should include Sticks for this purpose; ditto Equip Katana and Ninja Blade.  Exclude Knight Sword, Tome, and Flails.  You don't need to equip the ability in question, since it learns two or three abilities in one sitting and updates the list.

Optional: Alter Throw so it does not consume ammunition.  I don't mean "make it infinite"; rather, render items as Broken (read: irretrievable or damaged) 30% of the time.  The player must consider this before letting loose.  This should not supplant Catch/Sticky Fingers in theory (as in, you should still be able to Catch something, even if it is considered "Broken" from the thrower's end).  This removes the old, stupid notion that you could not retrieve ammunition or whole weapons after chucking them, and instead of buying ammo by the boxful, you buy a few expensive stars at a time that may or may not be recovered after the battle.  They may even be retrieved during battle, even if it might not be physically possible (it's a fucking game, all right?), which explains why a single star remains in the inventory even though you just chucked it.  Maybe they're just units of five to ten stars?  Whatever.  The fact that someone got rid of the breakage-from-iaido schtick ought to inspire someone around here.


Now we're in business.  This is closer to what Classes can do in real battle.  Why reserve Throwing to Ninjas anyway?


What Else do Ninjas Do?

Just like Innate Item Commands, universal Chuck-Wagons present a conundrum.  We could reconfigure the Ninja's Abandonment Reaction with the dual-addition of Throw as an optional Command while it is set up.  Call is Ninjutsu and have online help say "Grants insight into the art of invisibility".  That ought to be tons of fun.  That should ensure that other characters can, in fact, Throw stuff even though they aren't part of the agile elite.

Now, while the Ninja may learn Shuriken and Ball through his command ability, they may or may not appear in his NEW Command Ability, based on the Assassin's Subdual Arts as they share a common idiom.  However, it's going to be far less killer by far:

Chokehold (replaces Stop Breath/Suffocate) - Adds Sleep to the Target instead of Dead, provided the creature is generally humanoid.  If flagging characters is possible, of course.  It could check if it's a Dragon or Undead, for instance, and it won't work if the target is immune besides.  Represents what happens when you hold someone's neck long enough to knock them out but not kill them.

Shadowbind - Paralyzes and Numbs one foe in place (probably decrease the range and Success Rate, then make it fallible against Magic Evasion).

Shadowmeld (replaces Seal/Petrify) - Adds Transparent to Self.  Assuming we change Transparent like stated above, this is an honorable directive.

Shuriken - Enables the throwing of Shuriken.
Ball - Enables the throwing of Balls.

Ultima and Allure are unavailable for obvious reasons.

It's not extensive, but a few other options are better than none, and the ones the Ninja does get are grimly efficient.


In short, the above Spoilers suggest the following:

If Innate Item Command is given to all, then it should not be exclusive to the player.  That goes against the spirit of trimming Transparent down.  The player and AI should be on equal footing.

Use the Chemist Class to improve upon an existing Innate Command while possessing its own can Command to facilitate this.

Speaking of Transparent, try modifying the attack-prone version to double direct evasion and negate magic evasion.

Recovery medicine should be altered to be viable and fair at any point in the game and not be skewed between one and the next.

Characters could have gradient Innate Ability packages that reflect their idiom better, such as Defend and Weapon Guard for Knights but not Black Mages.  This scale may be extended to Savvy (Throw, then Abandon) and Magic (Half MP, Short Charge) and arranged upon a grid.

Throw makes an excellent Innate Command, but should reflect a Character's skill and familiarity while being doubled in power to reflect a value in investment.

Characters could learn new Throw licenses by learning "Equip Merits" and the full menu is restricted to logical or balanced entries.  It may be possible to modify Throw to break at certain rates when used on certain types of weapons (e.g. daggers & shuriken may be retrievable, but perhaps not expensive gear).

Ninjas would still have Shuriken and Ball, but their Command list includes Ninja techniques based on altered Assassin Subdual Arts.  Abandon may also grant access to Throw and renamed "Ninjutsu" in addition to its doubled evasion.

Never knock Chemists.

ShadowSkyle

Some very nice concepts, though I'm not sure how much of it is obtainable. For example, the ninja command list including Ball and Shuriken as well as other abilities runs into a menu problem. If you set the menu to access the weapon list so Ball and Shuriken can be used, the other abilities will not work (and vice-versa). This is why jobs in FFT Vanilla whose skillsets included menu-specific abilities (Chemist, Geomancer, Ninja, Samurai, etc) had ability lists comprised of only those types of abilities.

Reworking Throw to be innate, but learning abilities through Equip skills is a wonderful concept, but I believe it would take most of the abilities away from NPCs. How many of them learn equip abilities, especially those outside of their jobs unless they're using that ability.

In my opinion, several items shouldn't even be throwable. (For example: Knight swords are huge. How far could you realistically throw it and what are the odds you hit blade first? Or Sticks...There's no point on them. Throwing a dull object like that might sting a little, but how much damage are you really going to do to someone with it? You'd be more effective throwing a stone, as you can throw it faster and hit more precisely)

"That really hurt! I'm going to have a lump there, you idiot. Who throws a shoe?! Honestly?"  -Austin Powers-

Barren

I got one for you if you wanna try it

Job: Assassin Cross

Purpose: Melee/Status/Harassment

Description: Utilizes stealth and confusion in order to land the perfect killing blow

Gender: Both Male and Female

Skillset Name: Lethal Arts

Skillset Description: Variety of brutal methods to overcome enemies

Equips: Knives, Bows, Ninja Swords, Clothes, Accessories

Innate: Dual Wield

Skills: Meteor Assault (Adds Blind), Reaper (Adds Death), Cloak (Adds Transparent), Grimtooth (similar to Earth Slash Animation but using weapon), Sonic Blow (knock back damage), Venom Splasher (AoE Poison), Allure (Adds Charm), Soul Destroyer (AoE Damage)

  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
You dare cross blades with me?

Reks

Finally got around to remembering my idea from before.

Job: Vanguard

Purpose: Melee and debilitation

Description: Warriors who wield spears to debilitate and overwhelm foes

Gender: Both

Skillset Name: Spearplay

Skillset Discription: Several moves that hinder and damage opponents

Equips: Spears, Clothes, Accessories

Innate: Two-Hands

Skills:
Pin (inflicts half-damage, adds Don't Move)
Forceful Strike (deals lower damage, but is a guaranteed knockback if it hits)
Longinus (An aimed attack that pierces all enemies in the weapon's attack range, requires a spear)
Aimed Blow (strikes at the opponents joints, inflicting Don't Act)
Clobber (a forceful blow with the spear's shaft to the target's head, adding Confuse and lowering MA)
Full Thrust (deals massive damage(maybe 1.5?), but has low accuracy and weakens the user, taking away 1 or 2 PA each use)

Might edit as I think of more abilities. Hmm.....
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
  • Discord username: Reks#0128

formerdeathcorps

June 27, 2012, 08:15:14 pm #45 Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 08:30:38 pm by formerdeathcorps
Ronin, there's a far more basic problem with the Innate: Item hack than just balance/flavor.  If you have 16 moves in your primary and secondary skillset, your tertiary skillset (Item) will not be considered.  Thus, unless we limit the number of moves per class to 9 (or rewrite the AI table), we cannot guarantee that Innate: Item will always be used by the AI.  Until this problem is resolved, that hack shouldn't be used, balance/flavor issues aside.
However, this does not justify keeping Item as an independent skillset.  From a coding perspective, it is always nice to consolidate so I can save space to fit new features.  Since draw out, item, and throw all produce action menus that reference your inventory, it is a good idea to consolidate at least two of the above.  However, from a game and flavor perspective, the decision favors merging item and throw.
1) They have similar sprite animations when the event is used.
2) Draw Out (even after my edits) is a generalized skillset with healing, damage, status, and anti-mage.  It is already "complete".
3) You aren't throwing  a soul to deal damage; you harness the internal spirit.  It makes no sense to pair such abilities under a skillset titled Throw.  (I'm replacing katana because we already have oriental blades covered under ninjato.)
4) Item is purely support.  Throw originally was purely offense.  Both were fairly boring, but the combination would give Juggler more roles to fill.
In other words, my solution to this problem is to make one class that is good at throwing weapons and potions.  It'll take the role of chemist and the throwing role of ninja.  Other classes won't be as good with using potions or throwing weapons because they don't have throw item innate.  This should satisfy your need to make chemists better item users than everyone else while also granting them good offensive options.  As for your idea to create "higher-tier" rare potions that scale to the late-game, elixir (which we can certainly make more common) already does this; we don't need Hi/X-Potion usurping its role.  The AI won't use Elixirs early because each item has an "enemy use level".  If the enemies don't exceed that level, the AI won't use the item, even if they know the skill.  As for Ninja, we can always change Ninja's skillset to something more interesting (like what Barren wrote).

As for throw weapon, most weapons should not be thrown.  From a practical standpoint, most weapons aren't that aerodynamic and ones lacking a sharp point (like books) won't even hurt, even if it somehow managed to hit someone (as ShadowSkyle noted). 
Quote
Now we're in business.  This is closer to what Classes can do in real battle.

Although I appreciate your wish to add realism and give more classes the ability to attack at range, from the standpoint of coding, not only is there the inventory menu compatibility problem ShadowSkyle pointed out, there's also the problem I noted earlier in overloading the AI with too many options.  I don't want something like the PSX version of Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together where the AI has a throw stone option on every unit but never uses it.  From the standpoint of balance, this is blatantly unfair to the already weak classes that specialize in ranged attacks: mages and archers.
This is also why I object to the idea of having Dragon Spirit add Jump as an innate; not only is jump actually powerful, it would incur the same problems.
As for some of your other concerns about throw, every weapon in FFTP has a flag that allows you to control the throwability of it.  In other words, you can have Throw: Knife only allow you to throw ONE knife rather than every knife.  The "enemy use level" also applies here; the AI won't spam OP weapons early.  We can certainly have the throwable flag on non-shuriken/bomb weapons correspond to doubled WP.  We can also have thrown items add status effects or spells with some very simple ASM hacking.

Weighted Dagger (6 WP--so 12 when actually thrown)
Javelin (8 WP--so 16 when actually thrown)
Throwing Axe (9 WP--so 18 when actually thrown)
Shuriken x3
Bombs x3

This creates a balance as the more expensive weapons have higher WP while the shurikens and bombs are weaker but very cheap.  We could even throw Souls (my katana replacement) as bomb variants if people feel Juggler doesn't have enough to work with.  I can also make offensive potions like acid beakers to be thrown, with the damage resembling Seismic Toss from Pokemon (so it scales to your level but ignores target defenses).
Part of the necessary restrictions on throw is that thrown items are one-time use during a battle.  Thus, it makes no sense to throw an item without a decrease in inventory.  However, your point on the gil costs of thrown items is also valid; once we remove rare items from being thrown, we can definitely consider a 70% chance for any thrown item (player or enemy) to end up in the fur shop for the player to buy back at reduced price.

Quote
(Tactics was never play-tested past 60).

If that's the case, then we should cap levels at level 49-60.  If we don't, we would either have to nullify speed growths (which makes speed gear more broken, speed save/critical quick more powerful, and Bows/Ninjato/Throw worthless) or scale Spell CTs to the speed of the caster.  Something like:
new CT = min{old CT, RU[old CT * X / Cas_Speed]}, where RU means rounded up and X is loaded from FFTP on spell formulas.
would then be necessary to balance damage mages with ninjas.

Quote
Fighter Branch: Knight, Archer, Dragoon, Samurai, possibly Dancer but never Bard.  Innate Weapon Guard and Defend.

Wizard Branch: Black Mage, Chemist, Time Mage, Mediator, Summoner, Calculator, Bard, Mime.  Despite mastery of esoterica, their instincts omit full battle-readiness and struggle to avoid attacks.  No Innate Weapon Guard or Defend.

Cleric Branch: White Mage, Squire, Monk, Thief, Ninja, Geomancer, Oracle/Onmyoshi, Dancer (if not a Fighter).  They exhibit enough combat readiness to avoid blows--just not with blades.  Innate Defend.

Why does Cleric have its own branch?  We don't need that many healing/support classes.  I know you're trying to model D&D, but part of what made FFT fun was interbranched job paths and the ability to hybridize your units (hence you had WMs with holy, chemists with guns, monks with golem, wizards with draw out, etc.)  It makes no sense to force-fit a model that doesn't really fit with FFT.  As a side note, the AI is very stupid with Defend; they will always try to use it when they have nothing to do, even if that wastes CT and will sometimes use it over pulling KOs.

My alternative tree is nowhere as detailed, but based off the jobs I've submitted:
Squire => Lancer =(branches into 2)=> (Other Armored Jobs)
Geomancer => Animist =(branches into 2)=> (Other Magical Jobs)
Juggler => Archer =(branches into 2)=> (Other Speedy Jobs)
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.

ShadowSkyle

@formerdeathcorps: Can we merge Throw and Item? They open two different inventory areas (Weapon and Item respectively). When I tried to give the Ball command to Chemist, it wouldn't work. Also, I would definitely hate to see katanas removed from the game. Realistically, there were far more types of katanas than ninjatos, especially since ninjatos originated as shorter versions of the katana in order to deceive samurai into thinking the sheathed weapon would take longer to draw. I'd sooner just make some of the katanas as ninjatos, effectively combining the two types of weapons.

On another note, I'm very excited to see this mod forum taking off. For a while after I started it, it remained silent with but a few submissions. Thanks to everyone for adding their say and allowing this mod to begin it's path to greatness!

ShadowSkyle

Alright, I'll put in one more class.

Job Name: Warlock
Job Purpose: Magic/Harassment
Job Description: Arcane practitioner that focuses in torturing his enemies.
Gender Availability: Both
Skillset Name: Curse
Skillset Description: The Warlock curses his enemies to render them incapable of fighting effectively.
Ability Types: De-buff spells/DoT
Additional Info: Can wear clothing or robes. Low MP/High MA (Used for dealing damage with books. If books remain physical, then the Warlock's PA will increase, while his MA will decrease).

formerdeathcorps

June 28, 2012, 02:45:08 pm #48 Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 05:02:36 pm by formerdeathcorps
Quote from: ShadowSkyle on June 28, 2012, 01:05:33 am
@formerdeathcorps: Can we merge Throw and Item? They open two different inventory areas (Weapon and Item respectively). When I tried to give the Ball command to Chemist, it wouldn't work.


I'm working on the ASM.  This should work.
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00000000



Quote
Also, I would definitely hate to see katanas removed from the game. Realistically, there were far more types of katanas than ninjatos, especially since ninjatos originated as shorter versions of the katana in order to deceive samurai into thinking the sheathed weapon would take longer to draw. I'd sooner just make some of the katanas as ninjatos, effectively combining the two types of weapons.


That was the idea; if katana was to be deleted, we would rename some of the ninjato as katanas.  This is what FFTA did with ninja weapons.
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.

Quman

I guess I may as well throw another class idea out there.

Job Name: Mystic Knight
Job Purpose: Melee/Damage/Harassment
Job Description: Warrior mages who enhance the power of their weapons with magic.
Gender Availability: Both
Skillset Name: Spellblade
Skillset Description: Adds a magical effect to the Mystic Knight's physical attack.
Ability Types: Mostly weapon-range elemental attacks that can also inflict statuses, similar to the Parivir from FFTA2.
Additional Info: Reaction abilities may include SOS Protect or SOS Shell if considered viable and balanced.

Reks

Thought of another Job:

Name: Sorceror

Job Purpose: AoE Magic Damage

Job Description: Mages who devastate their opponents with powerful and forbidden magic

Gender Availability: Both

Skillset Name: Arcana

Skillset Description: Magic powerful and devastating that does not discriminate from friend or foe.

Equipment: Rods, Staves, Books, Robes, Hats, Accessories

Abilities:

Blackout- Dark Elemental damage (AoE of 2, uses Darkness 2's effect)

Whiteout- Holy Elemental damage (AoE of 2, uses a whitened version of Darkness 2's effect)

Rejuvinating Rain- Water Elemental healing (AoE of 3)

Fatal Eclipse- Non Elemental damage (AoE of 3, Range of 0, uses Grand Cross's effect and hits the user)

Crimson Flare- Massive Fire damage (AoE of 2, uses Flare 2's effect)

Animalcule- No damage, inflicts status (Add Darkness, Poison, Silence, Don't Act: AoE of 1)

All abilities have a range of 3

I know this might seem a bit powerful, but all of the skills hit allies as well as enemies. JP costs might be expensive as well. Based off of the Arcana magic from The Last Remnant (though nowhere near as powerful)
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
  • Discord username: Reks#0128

formerdeathcorps

My hack is mostly finished, but phoenix down just refuses to work.
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.

ShadowSkyle

That's not good. Though it would explain why they don't just toss a phoenix down to Teta. lol.

formerdeathcorps

June 29, 2012, 09:28:22 pm #53 Last Edit: June 29, 2012, 09:51:06 pm by formerdeathcorps
All right, the above should be a functional beta.  The above should work except for 3 things:
1) No aftereffect animation
Reason: This does not work because FFTP is coded wrong and doesn't let you edit effect animations for THROW.  This can be hex-edited manually though.
2) Phoenix Down healing/status display
Reason: I don't know, but at least it works now.
3) Triggers Counter/Blade Grasp
Reason: THROW is an offensive skillset and thus triggers a complex of reactions associated with blade grasp and counter (henceforth known as countergrasp).  (NOTE, catch is unrelated; only thrown non-consumables will trigger Catch.)  However, the specific resolution is up for debate (see below).

Some things to consider:
1) This overrides Throw Sword, Ninjato, Katana, Knight Sword.  The reason why I overrode 4 slots is because there are 4 distinct types of potions: Heal HP, Heal MP, Heal HP/MP, and Heal Status.  The AI needs each potion type to be considered separately to understand how to use it.  This means the THROW will have Throw: Medicine, Ether, Elixir, Tincture rather than Throw: Consumable.  I can fix this, but it requires AI hacking (and is currently not worth the effort).
Technically, there should be 5 distinct types because Phoenix Down kills the undead, but the only loss in consolidation with Heal Status is that the AI will never use Phoenix Downs to kill undeads.  I can rewrite the hack to include 5 slots, but I'd rather see the PD + undead combo eliminated altogether.
As a corollary, I strongly urge anyone using this hack to restrict the types of thrown weapons to no more than 7 (including shuriken and ball).
2) THROW Item currently triggers countergraspable reactions.  This is another unintended consequence of tying ITEM to THROW.  This can be fixed, but there are several options
Option A: Have ONLY potions not trigger
Option B: Have all forms of healing not trigger countergrasp.
Option B Alternate: Have all forms of healing not trigger damaging countergrasp reactions.
Option C: Leave it as is.
3) How many of you actually want thrown weapons (not shurikens or bombs) to double their WP when thrown?
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.

ShadowSkyle

Last call for job submission! The winners will be chosen starting Sunday, July 1st (Exact time is unknown) and will be announced as soon as they are all chosen! If you have any jobs you wish to post before the decision is made, do so now!

Celdia

Just threw FDC's Throw+Item hack into an XML if anyone wants to more easily give it a test.  7z'd because the forum hates .xml files.

formerdeathcorps

June 30, 2012, 11:37:12 am #56 Last Edit: June 30, 2012, 11:55:44 am by formerdeathcorps
Blue Mage
Hybrid class capable of swordplay and various monster abilities
EQ: Swords, Rods, Staves, Clothes, Robes, Hats, Accessories
Special Abilities: Can learn monster skills from crystals
I'm thinking we either make monster skill and talk innate on all units or make both innate on blue mage.

Abilities (mostly support, but you have some nice damage skills too):
Choco Esuna
Circle
Beaking
Sleep Touch (You can only learn this through crystals.)
Blood Suck (This is the vampire cat version that only has a 25% chance of adding blood suck.)
Hurricane
Mimic Titan
Odd Soundwave
Look of the Devil
Nose Breath (Best learned through crystals.)
Protect Spirit
Calm Spirit
Sudden Cry
Triple Attack

Things not considered for balance reasons:
Blaster
Blow Up
Bad Breath
Triple Breath
Almagest
Oink
Gather Power

NOTE: The inclusion of Blue Mage necessitates monsters having stats similar to humans or a change of monster damage/status formulas.
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.

MiKeMiTchi

Adopted from Mercenaries:

Job Name: Inquisitor
Job Purpose: Support/Anti-Magic/Annoying
Job Description: Heretic hunting magis' bane
Gender Availability: Both
Skillset Name: Bane Magic
Skillset Description: Archaic form of magic used to obliterate and dismantle magic.
Ability Types: Buff/Negative/Status Spells
*Mana Strip - MP Damage
*Void Bliss - Ranged Dispel (enemy)
*Magic Mockery - Cancel casting, Add berserk
*Mirror Stance - Add Reflect (self)
*Anti-Faith - Reduce faith (self/enemy)
*Charm Crush - Breaks accessory
*Silent Lake - Add silence (all units)

Additional Info:
http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=2187.20
http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=2187.60#msg46275
Jot5 GFX Designer :: Spriter :: Mitchi

mjr2716

July 01, 2012, 10:58:21 am #58 Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 11:15:58 am by mjr2716
Job Name: Druid

Job Purpose: Support/Caster

Job Description: Protector of the wilds, avenger for nature.

Gender Availability: Both

Skillset Name: Nature magic

Skillset Description: Magic that is derived from nature herself. The Druid uses the gift she blessed upon him to protect those who cannot protect themselves, and to harm those who would destroy what is most precious to her, the wonders of nature.

Ability Types:
Geomancy (only the ones on natural terrains like Hell Ivy, Water Ball, Quicksand etc)
Basic white magic (cure 1, protect 1, shell 1, Raise 1)
Basic Black Magic (Bolt 1, Bolt 2, Poison)
Throw stone



Rfh

July 01, 2012, 11:35:09 am #59 Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 11:49:29 am by Rfh
I was think to use my fusilier job in my patch with some changes here:

Fusilier:
Lower stats and 3 move, good speed.

-Stopshot: Weapon damage with 25% add stop

-Potionshot: Recovers HP in weapon range

-Ethershot. Reovers MP in weapon range

-Iceshot: Ice Weapon Damage in weapon range

-Rend Helm: Destroys enemy Helmet in weapon range

-Fire Blast/Mortar: 150% Fire Weapon damage in weapon range, but recoil to caster Damage/3

-Silenceshot: Add silence

-Firecracker: 150% Weapon damage, cost 22MP  (Maybe up the MP or change by another ability, because my game has another MP system)

Reaction:

Interference: Like Arrow guard, but with guns. The hack actually exist.

Support

Equip Guns or concentrate?

The hack for Fire Blast:

<Patch name="Formula 42 (worker) become Dmg(WP+Y)*PA DmgCas((WP+Y)*PA)/3">
<Description>The formula  now apply elemental, has physical evasion, and % to status</Description>
<Location file="BATTLE_BIN" offset="123184">
4421060C
00000000
1B000214
00000000
9717060C
00000000
FF17060C
00000000
7E21060C
00000000
3E19060C
00000000
7B76050C
00000000
B41B060C
00000000
FE1B060C
00000000
1980023C
902D428C
00000000
00004290
00000000
06000210
00000000
3F1C060C
00000000
3021060C
00000000
AD1F060C
00000000
00000000
00000000
</Location>
<Location file="BATTLE_BIN" offset="F69EC">
E8FFBD27
1000BFAF
5A19060C
00000000
1980023C
902D428C
00000000
04004494
00000000
03000534
1A008500
12200000
1980033C
8C2D638C
01000234
000062A0
040064A4
1980023C
902D428C
80000334
250043A0
1980023C
8C2D428C
00000000
250043A0
1000BF8F
1800BD27
0800E003
00000000
</Location>
</Patch>

And for determine the +50% of damage instead of +Y, we can use my multiple formula hack.
  • Modding version: PSX