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Which one is the best, and why?

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Dome [Posts: 4890]
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  • [December 05, 2010, 06:02:09 PM]
This topic is a mess
Why? Because it contains ALL FFT: Plus topics/posts created before the final release
I merged them to clean up the section, they are still here because they represent the History of the patch
Will I ever order this topic? No >_>
But you are free to scroll the many pages of this topic if you want to waste some time :-)

- Dome, the spam mod


« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 09:15:31 AM by Dome »
"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"
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Eternal [Posts: 3048]
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  • [December 05, 2010, 06:19:24 PM]
Re: [Old] ALL old topics created before the FULL release (Merged together!)
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2010, 06:19:24 PM »
Here are a few thoughts from a 1.3 newbie.

@1: Ramza is Cadet/Mercenary/Heretic in Newtype and it seems to work fairly well. I think LD gave him the Mercenary job on Mercs. In regards to his skillset, I had come up with a few "Command" skills for Zalbag for Newtype that I had originally created for Ramza. Basically, it was skills that used the Talk Skill formula and affected all allies, and would give them various statii, such as Defend, or PA +1, with a CT/MP Cost. Not sure if that's the flavor you want to go for, but that's my two cents. :P

@2: Totally agree.

@3: I'm iffy about this. The enemy's superior equipment does make things very, very challenging, but the fact that it's so good actually gives use to Steal and Battle Skill. I know you shouldn't base items around a few skillsets, but I'm just iffy about nerfing the potential of enemy equipment.

@4: Disagree. Random battles with just monsters get terribly old, and this just reduces the need for Thieves even more.

@5: Agreed. That's what I did for Newtype (sorry to keep bringing it up, but a lot of it ties into this), and a few battles I had were rematches against the Lucavi, or battles against T.G. Cid or Wiegraf and the Death Corps.

@6: I also agree with this, but I think there was some issue with monsters having human skillsets or something. I don't recall the exact issue, but I think there was something stopping it from being done.

"You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
Dome [Posts: 4890]
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  • [December 05, 2010, 06:38:28 PM]
Re: [Old] ALL old topics created before the FULL release (Merged together!)
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2010, 06:38:28 PM »
I'm glad someone likes my idea/s :-)
About 4)
I'm suggesting monsters-only randoms in order to remove the possibility for players to get uberequipment after the first half of chapter 1
We can make randoms with humans with fixed equipment as well, or immortal enemies with the maintenance ability
Also, each spot of the map should have a special, hard battle (Not as hard as DD, but still challenging) with elixir as a war trophy that can be triggered only in chapter 4

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"
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Eternal [Posts: 3048]
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  • [December 05, 2010, 06:42:25 PM]
Re: [Old] ALL old topics created before the FULL release (Merged together!)
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2010, 06:42:25 PM »
I suppose that'd be fine. Just removing humans from random battles seems a little unnecessary when you can just set fixed gear. And the Elixir idea isn't too bad either, unless the battle is so hard in which just getting an Elixir would be a ripoff. :P

"You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
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Otabo [Posts: 818]
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  • [December 05, 2010, 06:44:36 PM]
Re: [Old] ALL old topics created before the FULL release (Merged together!)
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2010, 06:44:36 PM »
1. Agreed. Ubersquire stats could use a buff, even if it's only slight. Also think that something else should be done to Scream (does anyone use Scream, or at least find it remotely useful?).

2. Agreed.

3. Agreed with Eternal on this one.

4. Nah. Enemy generics give more flavor to battles, IMO. We could use more enemy generics in battles, though.

5. Agreed. I say take out the impossible battles in END (they are impossible now, especially since Golem is gone), or at least make them really hard, but beatable. Also, I think we should lighten up on those certain battles that require status + Demi to win them; there's too many of those in there. Tone down Valkyries White Knights a bit or at least put them on a lower floor like Horror or Voyage, change or at least seriously buff battles like Voyage Behemoths, Delta Earth Squad, Delta Holy Dragons, Tiger Performers, etc. Battles like Horror Lune Knights, Arc Knights, Valkyries Knight Blades, etc are fine as they are, IMO. I also like Eternal's suggestion and putting in Lucavi or special characters - I think LFT did something like this for each floor of DD.

6. Undecided on this one, but if it works, then I'm all for it.
Dome [Posts: 4890]
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  • [December 05, 2010, 06:46:01 PM]
Re: [Old] ALL old topics created before the FULL release (Merged together!)
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2010, 06:46:01 PM »
Quote from: "Eternal248"
I suppose that'd be fine. Just removing humans from random battles seems a little unnecessary when you can just set fixed gear. And the Elixir idea isn't too bad either, unless the battle is so hard in which just getting an Elixir would be a ripoff. :P
My idea is that only DD battles are HARD AS FUCK
Random-special battle should be something on par with the 11 monks in grog hill
Quote from: "Otabo"
(does anyone use Scream, or at least find it remotely useful?)
IMHO it sucks hard

Anyway, yeah, a lot of entd work is required, IMHO
« Last Edit: December 05, 2010, 07:32:50 PM by Dome »
"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"
Dome [Posts: 4890]
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  • [December 05, 2010, 07:03:18 PM]
Re: [Old] ALL old topics created before the FULL release (Merged together!)
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2010, 07:03:18 PM »
Added some new idea

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dinosaur [Posts: 453]
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  • [December 05, 2010, 07:49:03 PM]
SilvasRuin [Posts: 1405]
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  • [December 05, 2010, 08:01:24 PM]
Re: [Old] ALL old topics created before the FULL release (Merged together!)
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2010, 08:01:24 PM »
Since Mimes can do anything, I would propose that they should need a few levels in at least all the basic jobs.  They can do anything, so they should have dabbled in everything, so to speak.  Besides, time spent getting a couple levels in each job feels much less tedius than maxing out the two starter jobs.
Dome [Posts: 4890]
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  • [December 05, 2010, 08:03:32 PM]
Re: [Old] ALL old topics created before the FULL release (Merged together!)
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2010, 08:03:32 PM »
Quote from: "SilvasRuin"
Since Mimes can do anything, I would propose that they should need a few levels in at least all the basic jobs.  They can do anything, so they should have dabbled in everything, so to speak.  Besides, time spent getting a couple levels in each job feels much less tedius than maxing out the two starter jobs.
So..you are suggesting 2 of every job?
And if not every...which one?

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Eternal [Posts: 3048]
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  • [December 05, 2010, 08:11:28 PM]
Re: [Old] ALL old topics created before the FULL release (Merged together!)
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2010, 08:11:28 PM »
2 in each job is what I did for Newtype, at least. Seems to work fairly well.

"You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
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philsov [Posts: 4598]
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  • [December 05, 2010, 08:11:40 PM]
Re: [Old] ALL old topics created before the FULL release (Merged together!)
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2010, 08:11:40 PM »
1) Yes, Ramza needs to be at least on par with normal squires for stats and abilities.  He only goes through 3 total classes though, and "Heavenly Knight" makes me throw up a little in my mouth.
2) Easytype does this
3) Easytype does this
4) A twist fitting to what other FF's offer, but I like having humans around for the spice
5) Most of DD is fine, and doesn't need a facelift like what you're suggesting - doesn't seem to fitting imo.  I much more prefer brand new encounters and monsters than rehashed ones.
6) In order to swing that we would need to sacrifice another job class slot like Apanda or Ultima Demon or something.  So no, imo.
7) Meh, sure
8- This is already the case?
9) So they just drop off the poaching list?  That makes things harder, not easier.
10) Easytype does this
11) Please be more exact
12) Meh, possibly.  
13) Perhaps level 3 geomancer, lancer, mediator, and summoner?  They need to go through all the others as prereqs, but this avoids the level 6 everything and level 8 squire/chemist
14) Huh?

All in all, Easytype already tackles a lot of the difficulty curve.  If we want to call easytype "normal" and the true 1.3 "hard" that's a matter of semantics/marketting.  But I can certainly bring some of these changes into the fold for the next easytype version np.

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SilvasRuin [Posts: 1405]
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  • [December 05, 2010, 08:16:40 PM]
Re: [Old] ALL old topics created before the FULL release (Merged together!)
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2010, 08:16:40 PM »
14 was my proposal and the idea is to keep bosses' initial difficulty about the same, but allow the player to grow in strength faster and grind to the point they can topple the boss.  This feature would be for more casual gamers who want to play but... suck.  Alternatively, if you want casual players to be able to beat it too, the whole game could be made easier.  But I REALLY don't like that alternative.  I'd prefer to just make bosses able to be beaten by sucky players via grinding.
Dome [Posts: 4890]
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  • [December 05, 2010, 08:18:08 PM]
Re: [Old] ALL old topics created before the FULL release (Merged together!)
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2010, 08:18:08 PM »
Quote from: "philsov"
1) Yes, Ramza needs to be at least on par with normal squires for stats and abilities.  He only goes through 3 total classes though, and "Heavenly Knight" makes me throw up a little in my mouth.
Isn't it the same rank of his father? just a matter of name, my idea is not a LOLSWORDSKLILL PATCH
Quote from: "philsov"
4) A twist fitting to what other FF's offer, but I like having humans around for the spice
I just want to make impossible for players to get endgame equipment during the first half of chapter 1
Quote from: "philsov"
5) Most of DD is fine, and doesn't need a facelift like what you're suggesting - doesn't seem to fitting imo.  I much more prefer brand new encounters and monsters than rehashed ones.
I like the idea of the rematch...Maybe it's just a matter of opinion xD
Quote from: "philsov"
6) In order to swing that we would need to sacrifice another job class slot like Apanda or Ultima Demon or something.  So no, imo.
Ultima demon and Archaich demon are almost the same, And I'm sure there is some class that can be remove with little to no problem at all
Quote from: "philsov"
9) So they just drop off the poaching list?  That makes things harder, not easier.
My idea is not to make 1.4 uber easy xD Enemies can't spam elixirs, like you can't
Quote from: "philsov"
11) Please be more exact
Give me some time and I will make a guide to 1.3 monsters with my suggestions
Quote from: "philsov"
13) Perhaps level 3 geomancer, lancer, mediator, and summoner?  They need to go through all the others as prereqs, but this avoids the level 6 everything and level 8 squire/chemist
Looks good
Quote from: "philsov"
14) Huh?
Read silvas response

Quote from: "philsov"
All in all, Easytype already tackles a lot of the difficulty curve.  If we want to call easytype "normal" and the true 1.3 "hard" that's a matter of semantics/marketting.  But I can certainly bring some of these changes into the fold for the next easytype version np.
My goal/idea is to make 1 patch, that is definitive, that's why "1.4"
No more Easy/hard/normal, just one patch that should be the definitive version
(That's just my idea, ofc)
« Last Edit: December 05, 2010, 08:27:15 PM by Dome »
"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"
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philsov [Posts: 4598]
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  • [December 05, 2010, 08:22:58 PM]
Re: [Old] ALL old topics created before the FULL release (Merged together!)
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2010, 08:22:58 PM »
imo the gap between the masters and the casuals is too great to be held to a single difficulty setting without making someone disappointed.

Just another rebel plotting rebellion.
Gotwald [Posts: 224]
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  • [December 05, 2010, 08:27:22 PM]
Re: [Old] ALL old topics created before the FULL release (Merged together!)
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2010, 08:27:22 PM »
1. Ramza could have better growths (a little) better multipliers (again, a little) and the regular squire stats, possible a change to the useless scream, but she should not become some special class. He is a squire. Remember, calculater would be really hard to balance, so it was replace by sage. Ramza doesn't need to be a special swordkiller because he is ramza; the only reason he could have better growths and equipment is because he actually grows in the plot and story, it would make sense.

2. This is a fantastic idea, enemies 10 levels higher than you at barius hill is stupid.

3. No, this adds difficulty and would make steal completely useless (except for charm). Besides, if the enemies are your level, you shouldn't be level 50 in chapter 1.

4.Why should we stop someone from doing  a super duper amount of grinding just to make chapters 1 and 2 easy, and then lose in chapter 3 and 4 when they start having set equips? Just because you can do it does not mean a player WILL do it.

5. No comment.

6. Sure, why not.

7. Special characters should have a special growth specific to their class. This would make them more specific to their own niche, but less versatile, meaning generics won't be completely outclassed. Malak doesn't have to be a ninja; why can't he be some kind of mage type like rafa? He could be a faster mage while rafa could be a stronger (have more PA) mage?

Edit: Nobody uses Malak and claims his untruth sucks. Yet everyone has trouble at Riovanes castle hell knights. Malak does not need a change, people just don't use him right.

8. No Comment.

9. Don't care, it hasn't seemed to be necessary.

10. I am in support of this.

11. Never used monsters, no comment.

12. Unless they add a large amount (+20ish) it really would not be worth while to waste a turn raising brave or faith, especially when you have faith rod. <3 Faith rod.

13. That means MORE grinding on Malak and rafa and orlandu and anyone you get after, meaning more time not having fun. Do not support.

14. If the stats stay the same, why does it matter if it is growth or multiplier?

-- Attention Citizens, this is the Computer. 2 + 2 now equals 3.9999238849009985. Please recalibrate your equipment.

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Dome [Posts: 4890]
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  • [December 05, 2010, 08:30:18 PM]
Re: [Old] ALL old topics created before the FULL release (Merged together!)
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2010, 08:30:18 PM »
Quote from: "philsov"
imo the gap between the masters and the casuals is too great to be held to a single difficulty setting without making someone disappointed.
Maybe you are right, but my goal still stays the same...no more double patches for 1.3
Anyway, that's my idea about difficult (Rated from 1 to 5)

Story fights 3/5
"Normal" randoms 1/5
"Special" randoms 4/5
DD fights 5/5
« Last Edit: December 05, 2010, 08:31:58 PM by Dome »
"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"
SilvasRuin [Posts: 1405]
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  • [December 05, 2010, 08:31:35 PM]
Re: [Old] ALL old topics created before the FULL release (Merged together!)
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2010, 08:31:35 PM »
The INITIAL stats would be made to stay the same.  Lower growths means that they don't gain as much power from levels, allowing players to catch up in power.
Dome [Posts: 4890]
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  • [December 05, 2010, 08:39:25 PM]
Re: [Old] ALL old topics created before the FULL release (Merged together!)
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2010, 08:39:25 PM »
@ Gotwald
1) In my opinion, Ramza IS a special (Not a broken one, ofc)...but he isn't a squire, at all (Maybe at the beginning)
3) Why this adds difficulty? Please explain
4) In my opinion disabling this option just makes you want to play the game without grinding, which is better...just my opinion, ofc
7) IMHO, they should be the same as others if used in different classes from they're base one...
P.s: Never said that Malak sucks...I used him a lot, expecially for DD
12) I agree, they should add-remove something in the range of 20
13) Yeah, more grinding will be necessary...but I'd like to make mime easier to unlock ..

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"
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  • [December 05, 2010, 08:42:42 PM]
Re: [Old] ALL old topics created before the FULL release (Merged together!)
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2010, 08:42:42 PM »
1) I agree; it's pretty sad that Squires have better stat growths than "uber"Squire. I'd say leave chapter 1 Squire as is (with slightly buffed growths, like 9/9/95/45/45), and throw him into something completely new in chapter 2 - maybe something that plays off the fact that he's equally good at fighting and casting magic? One thing I've always wanted to see done was a black magic variant of Beowulf's skillset: single target, no CT sword spells, but I'm not sure it would fit Ramza too well. Another idea would be to simply one-up the Squire abilities: Heal removes more statuses, Dash has a 100% chance to interrupt spellcasting, Wish is 100%, Accumulate loses CT, stuff like that.

2) I agree.

3) I don't really mind, frankly. It's pretty fun to have access - via steal - to equipment that widens your options that normally wouldn't be buyable.

4) Nah. Stealing is fun; why make it useless?

5) Add more variety, maybe? I haven't even tried, yet.

6) Don't really care. Boco's sole purpose is to breed a Red Chocobo and/or cast Chicken when I'm trying to grind JP.

7) Nah, I think they're fine with unique growths: gives them more characterization.

8 ) That would be pretty cool

9) Sure, though I'm not sure how rare they are right now.

10) Seriously; especially Elixirs.

11) Can't really comment; I only used monsters in chapter 1 and part of chapter 2.

12) Sure, though I wonder how hard that would be to hack. On the topic of brave, it would be cool to add a flag to some battles (end-of-chapter battles?) that buffs the brave of your entire team, like Mandalia Plains and Save Mustadio. If it's at all possible, of course.

13) Yeah for sure. Maybe they'd actually be useful then.

14) Definitely agree. The primary downside of FFT1.3, imho, is that some bosses can become nearly mathematically unbeatable if you level up too much.  That's what you get for...trying to enjoy the game?
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