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[Old] ALL old topics created before the FULL release (Merged together!)

Started by Dome, December 05, 2010, 02:02:09 pm

Which one is the best, and why?

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Alaris

Hmm, I for one am against this "1.4" concept.  In all complete, and total honesty, both Easytype, and normal 1.3 pretty much cover the types of players that would be interested in a "1.3-esque" experience.  But... that's just me.  People are free to have their own opinions, and create their own mods.
  • Modding version: PSX

Episode 42 is out! Click above to watch!

Dome

Quote from: "Alaris"Hmm, I for one am against this "1.4" concept.  In all complete, and total honesty, both Easytype, and normal 1.3 pretty much cover the types of players that would be interested in a "1.3-esque" experience.  But... that's just me.  People are free to have their own opinions, and create their own mods.
Don't worry, any feedback is always welcome
First of all: I love FFT 1.3, it was like a warm breeze for someone that loved FFT as much as me, and it's seriously one of the best mod I've ever played

But it has it's faults...
Some fault is fixed by FFT 1.3 easytipe, some no
FFT 1.4 is not meant to be a "FFT 1.3 + Easytipe complete edition" or something like that, but an improvement, an upgrade, a step up from 1.3, that's why the "1.4"
It should become the base point for future patches (Regarding difficult, and skill balancing; FFT Complete instead focuses on the story-script-everything else part)
Arch never gave us the chance to change (sorry, bad joke here) some things that he liked, because FFT 1.3, over time, became Arch's project, and not a "Community project" like the intro of this forum says
Also, at the moment, FFT 1.3 is WAY too focused on the "Difficult" part, and sometimes forgets to be fun
I sometimes play metal slug for the lulz...something I could do with Vanilla FFT, but not with FFT 1.3
FFT 1.3 is supposed to be a game, and this is bad...It's something similar to IWBTG:FFT edition
I've completed IWBTG and I'm proud of having completed it, but I'd never play it again...and for a game, this is VERY bad
Also, I don't like the "dual patch" thing
IMHO, a game should be nice to play for beginners and for more skilled players (Story not so hard, option hard battles)
That's why I want to start this project

Anyway, this post is made to explain my opinion, not to change other's mind :-)

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

Dome


"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

Zenius

23. Agree as well.

Attachment: For anyone who is interested in the old Newtype's DD.
I love the part where you can recruit the Lucavi.

Dome

Quote from: "Zenius"23. Agree as well.

Attachment: For anyone who is interested in the old Newtype's DD.
I love the part where you can recruit the Lucavi.
Thanks, I will take a look asap
Anyway, sorry but I don't think I will add recruitable Lucavi in 1.4...but we may change Byblos in a more lulzy monster...

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

Zenius

Yeah that was a fine touch but I honestly don't think it'll fit in 1.3/1.4 xD

Dome

Quote from: "Zenius"Yeah that was a fine touch but I honestly don't think it'll fit in 1.3/1.4 xD
What do you think about changing Byblos in another monster? A "more lulzy" one? xD

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

LightningHax

2) Agreed.
4) Too boring.
7) Same growth, but better multipliers... I like it.
12) If they can be increased/decreased by 20 per hit, then go for it.
13) The more mimes, the merrier.
14) Statistically impossible bosses SUUUUUUUUUUCK, so yes.
15) Throw is fine, Charge needs major buffing.
16) Sure.
17) Sure.
18) Maybe you could give all monsters a weakness, an element they absorb, and a status immunity or 2?
19) Oh dear St. Ajora YES.
20) Sure. And for even more variety, add some Mimes to some Ch.4 Battles.
21) Don't remove him. Send him to END :mrgreen: .
22) Don't make guests appear in your formation screen, just place them directly in the ENTD and give them good setups. You could even make their equipment scale up like the enemies.
23) Making them player controlled won't make them feel like guests. They could definitely use better AI, however.

Dome

Glad you almost agree with me in everything, Lighting hax

Anyway...about point 4
My idea is that normal randoms should contain normal monsters, humans with fixed (Stealable) equipment, humans with very good equipment (Not stealable and not recruitable) special jobs and special monsters
In this way you won't be able to steal BETTER equipment that the one you could steal from storyline battle or the one you can buy in shops
Why do you think it's going to be boring?

And, about point 21...
I had your idea as well...but banish is a useless skill that could be edited and given to jobs that needs better skills, and the battle with Kamba will just be wasted ENTD space: Fun the first time you see it, istant reset every other time
Anyway, we could place him in END, but nerfed (Hard as fuck, but no 100% instant doom move and wall status)
(Maybe something like 30 speed 999 hp 1 mp always protect shell regen D.up MD.up 100 brave 0 faith damage split immune to all statuses)
What do you guys think about this?

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

Dome


"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

Gaffy's stylin mustache

23) Guests should be player controlled, or at least some guest AI should be improved (Agrias at Zirekile falls, Mustadio...I'm looking at you >_>)

Guests can be pretty annoying, but I've come to see them as a powerful story-telling mechanism. If you're going to make them controllable and able to fight in random battles, might as well do away with the concept of guests altogether.

24) We should create some custom skill for wizards (I was thinking about mini flare: a 1 panel low damage ranged instant magic), thieves (Maybe an attack that inflicts a status) and for Archers/Ninjas, that requires a whole new skillsets...Need ideas on this

I don't think Wizards really need much love as they are, but a Magic Missile spell could work. Thieves could have a "backstab" special that can only be used at the enemy's back (not sure if that's possible to program, though) and is a normal attack with a chance to cause: dead.

25) It's possible to make an hack that allows to chose which battle of the DD you will fight, and to go on the lower floor just winning a fight (And not having to search for the exit)?

Yeah looking for the exit is annoying and pretty silly. It might make sense the first time, but afterwards, you'd think the party would look around before raising their hands and leaving.

philsov

1) Ramza sucks right now, he is a nerfed squire: He should get lower multipliers, higher growths (On par with mime), and a unique skillset focused on the fact that he is the leader of a small army (And his class name should be changed to something else...something like Cadet - Mercenary - Heavenly Knight, for example...THIS IS NOT A LOLSWORDSKILL PATCH, just Ramza's class name will change)
2) Storyline battle enemies level should be the same level of your party, and only bosses should be set on "Party level + something"
3) Equipment of storyline battles enemies should be fixed, and just a "tier" upper yours (steal it's still worthy, because you can get things before you can buy them in stores)
4) Random battles should only contain monsters, or immortal humans with maintenance as an ability, or humans with fixed equipment, in this way you can't steal better equipment that the one you can get in stores/storyline battles
5) DD should still be an endgame-area with uberbroken battles, but IMHO they should be changed, for example a rematch with each Zodiac monster or some important enemy killed during the story (Kletian, Algus, Miluda, etc...)...NOT EVERY DD BATTLE should be changed, ofc
6) Boco should be changed to a "Special monster" much like Byblos and Worker 8 (There is an asm that allows you to "Ride" a special job IIRC)
7) Special characters base class should have the same growth of other classes, the one that is the most similar (Example: Holy/dark/divine knights should have the same growths of the knight class, Malak should have ninja one, etc etc...) in this way, they will be special in they're class, but normal in others
8 ) Each spot of the map should have a special, hard battle (Not as hard as DD, but still challenging) with elixir as a war trophy that can be triggered only in chapter 4
9) Elixirs should be rare to get, findable only with move-find item and as a reward for the "special" battles all around the map (the one that are unlockable only in chapter 4) (In this way you won't be able to spam them)
10) Enemies should not be able to spam Chirijaden - Masamune - Elixir (Maybe only some bosses, like Elmdor and Chiri)
11) A lot of changes for monsters (Under the spoiler)
 

12) No brave - Faith permanent modification (They can still be increased - reduced in battle, but everything ends at the end of the fight, no permanent change)
13) Mime needs less requirements in order to be unlocked (3 geomancer, lancer, mediator, and summoner maybe?)
14) Some enemy-only job should see his stats lowered (Increase modifier, lower growths, in this way The INITIAL stats would be made to stay the same. Lower growths means that they don't gain as much power from levels, allowing players to catch up in power)
15) Some skillset should be changed (Archer/ninja?)
16) Almost every story battle should have 1 thing worth stealing (From chapter 1 to 3, pieces of equipment that you can get only much later, and chapter in 4 poachable-only items or very expensive items) in this way stealing will be very useful
17) To counter the fact that lowering mime job will make more grinding required for special characters, maybe we should add some move - reaction - support ability to special jobs
18) There should be a reason to use fire/ice/thunder attacks, because without monsters weak to them there is little to no difference between them (Fire more damage, ice more range, thunder shorter Charge time, maybe?)
19) I'd like to remove the normal/rare poach, because it's just a waste of time (People will just reload until it gets the rare one)
Of course, time when monsters shows up, poaching list and costs for rare items will be upgraded as well
20) What about adding some monster and "monster skill" equipped guys to some story battle?
21) (Even if I like CoK) Kanbabomb battles should be removed
22) Guests should be able to join randoms fight (Zodiac can help with this one)
23) Guests should be player controlled, or at least some guest AI should be improved (Agrias at Zirekile falls, Mustadio...I'm looking at you >_>)
24) We should create some custom skill for wizards (I was thinking about mini flare: a 1 panel low damage ranged instant magic), thieves (Maybe an attack that inflicts a status) and for Archers/Ninjas, that requires a whole new skillsets...Need ideas on this
25) It's possible to make an hack that allows to chose which battle of the DD you will fight, and to go on the lower floor just winning a fight (And not having to search for the exit)?

ASM'd does a lot of what is proposed here.  Imho it's time we as a whole focused less from 1.3 modification and more on creation.  Yes, this is a bit of mini advertising and yes, if I was really really focused it'd be done by now, and, yes, if you're really interested in starting this up yourself dome I'm sorry I'm being an overbearing wetblanket, but!

1) Ramza does gain additional abilities as his squire class\
2) This is the case (for normal)
3) This is somewhat the case (there isn't something steal-worthy in -every- battle)
4) I disagree with this - if the player wants to grind more to get better stuff they should be rewarded thusly.
5) Certaintly.  The ASM'd DD in fact has at least one floor with each of the five party level sizes for different degrees of stuff to do
6) Still on the fence, as it means sacrificing a special job slot - though replacing Undead Oracle shouldn't tip too many scales :)
8- ASM'd does this :)
10) ASM'd does this :) -- I think the current increments are 15.  Mediators have both the Br/Fa altering ablities and the new ones from 1.3, so talk skill is better by proxy as well
13) Yup.
14) Yup.
15) Archer has a new skillset, Ninja is still as-is though.
16) Same as 3
17) That is a wonderful idea!  Let's expand upon this momentarily.
18) That, too, works.  So far in ASM'd many of the wider AoE has been reformed to tri- and linear attacks, but that sort of variance will certainly be a boon to black magic
19) ASM'd does this :) (mind, of course, most of the upper-teir poaching goods are now not poachable to prevent absolutely destroying the gear curve in chapter 3
20) One step ahead of you my friend
21) Well, yeah.  Banish sucks.
22) Eh, maybe.
23) on the fence, but this'll likely happen
24) in ASM'd, thieves gain an add: confuse ability (like steal heart, only this works on all genders) and an ability called "last laugh" which is a deadly combination of status but is only useable while critical.  Meanwhile all mages gain a single target 0 CTR spell.
25) Not without destroying other fights/scene in the process.  It's possible to piggyback off the Season3 or 4 tourney ppf, but those require a savegame that it itself cannot provide.  It'd be an additional patch (ex pac, if you will) -- 1.3 mechanics with battles upon battles but no progression but ideal for endgame saves.

Regarding specials with additional RSM -- default squire currently has weapon guard, monster skill, equip axe, and move +1 in its slots.  If we move monster skill to mediators, we'd down one more.  There's 6 total spaces meaning... 3;  each special can take on one additional reaction, support, and movement.  

imo:

Mustadio: Speed Save, Equip Gun, Concentrate
Agrias: PA Save, Def Up, Move HP Up
Rafa: Abandon, Magic Attack Up, Magic Def Up
Malak: Hamedo, Two Swords, Magic Attack Up
Cid: HP Restore, Def Up, Move MP Up
Meliadoul: Damage Split, Attack Up, Move +2
Beowulf: Counter Magic, Magic Def Up, Move MP Up
Reis: Counter Flood, Magic Attack Up, Move +2
Cloud: Damage Split, Half MP(?), Move +3

Only kicker is that ASM'd also has a decent degree of difference with movement/range reduction, lower speed growth (yay charge time abilities) which... might take some time for people to get used to.  By all means continue this discussion, but ultimately it's better rolled into something newer than what 1.3 simply offers.  Just a thought.
Just another rebel plotting rebellion.

LightningHax

Quote from: "philsov"take on one additional reaction, support, and movement.  

imo:

Mustadio: Speed Save, Equip Gun, Concentrate
Agrias: PA Save, Def Up, Move HP Up
Rafa: Abandon, Magic Attack Up, Magic Def Up
Malak: Hamedo, Two Swords, Magic Attack Up
Cid: HP Restore, Def Up, Move MP Up
Meliadoul: Damage Split, Attack Up, Move +2
Beowulf: Counter Magic, Magic Def Up, Move MP Up
Reis: Counter Flood, Magic Attack Up, Move +2
Cloud: Damage Split, Half MP(?), Move +3


Looks good, but there is something that worries me. Why the movement abilities? I think you could just leave them with Move+1. They don't really need. They'll unlock all the movement skills they need getting other abilities. Also, considering how hard you have to work to unlock Cloud, give Soldier innate Short Charge. Other than that, looks good, Phil.

Dome

- Phil, you don't need to apologize at all
Everyone has the right to say whatever he wants (Of course, without being harsh...spam is the right section for everyone that  wants to be an asshole xD)

- You can advertise whatever you want in this topic, this is not a tyrannical kingdom where I rule supreme (And alone)
I've never followed ASM'd much (Ok, at all), but I'm glad that a lot of the ideas proposed here are the same you already had: It means that are good ideas :-)

- Your suggestions have been added to the main post

- I focus on modifying 1.3 instead of starting from scratch because
1) whoever created 1.3 made a good work
2) I'm not skilled in hacking

- My idea is just to fix what's wrong in 1.3, and destroy the dual thing patch (No offense here, you are doing a wonderful work), because I don't like the idea of a dual patch at all...if 1.3 needs a patch to help the newcomers, it means that it's not well designed, IMHO

- My aim is to create the definitive FFT 1.3 version (That's why 1.4), that should be the starting point for every other patch in terms of gameplay balance and difficult...the new, better and upgraded vanilla version, that 1.3 was meant to be and never become because...well, I already said why

- Of course discussion will continue here, only sharing our opinions/toughts/problems about 1.3 we can reach perfection

My idea is that ASM'd should be an advanced version of 1.4, focused on adding more ASM hacks and reducing movement/speed
1.4 is going to be the starting point...for a lot of things

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

Dome

Quote from: "LightningHax"
Quote from: "philsov"take on one additional reaction, support, and movement.  

imo:

Mustadio: Speed Save, Equip Gun, Concentrate
Agrias: PA Save, Def Up, Move HP Up
Rafa: Abandon, Magic Attack Up, Magic Def Up
Malak: Hamedo, Two Swords, Magic Attack Up
Cid: HP Restore, Def Up, Move MP Up
Meliadoul: Damage Split, Attack Up, Move +2
Beowulf: Counter Magic, Magic Def Up, Move MP Up
Reis: Counter Flood, Magic Attack Up, Move +2
Cloud: Damage Split, Half MP(?), Move +3


Looks good, but there is something that worries me. Why the movement abilities? I think you could just leave them with Move+1. They don't really need. They'll unlock all the movement skills they need getting other abilities. Also, considering how hard you have to work to unlock Cloud, give Soldier innate Short Charge. Other than that, looks good, Phil.
Cloud with innate short charge, IMHO, is broken...but let's listen what others think about this matter

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

Archael2

Quote- My aim is to create the definitive FFT 1.3 version (That's why 1.4), that should be the starting point for every other patch in terms of gameplay balance and difficult...the new, better and upgraded vanilla version, that 1.3 was meant to be and never become because...well, I already said why

Dome, the goals I set for 1.3 were reached.

- Greatly Increased Difficulty
- Mechanics Rebalance
- Spice up Storyline / DD / World Map enemies
- Make monsters and more items more relevant throughout the game

You should state new, separate goals for 1.4 when you make it, and that's cool, but don't think that 1.3 didn't reach it's goals, because it clearly did.

1.4 has NEW goals, which YOU are stating now. But don't try to tell people that YOUR goals for 1.4 were somehow 1.3's original goals which were never realized.

Dome

Quote from: "Voldemort2"
Quote- My aim is to create the definitive FFT 1.3 version (That's why 1.4), that should be the starting point for every other patch in terms of gameplay balance and difficult...the new, better and upgraded vanilla version, that 1.3 was meant to be and never become because...well, I already said why

Dome, the goals I set for 1.3 were reached.

- Greatly Increased Difficulty
- Mechanics Rebalance
- Spice up Storyline / DD / World Map enemies
- Make monsters and more items more relevant throughout the game

You should state new, separate goals for 1.4 when you make it, and that's cool, but don't think that 1.3 didn't reach it's goals, because it clearly did.

1.4 has NEW goals, which YOU are stating now. But don't try to tell people that YOUR goals for 1.4 were 1.3's original goals
QuoteFFT community's effort to create an updated, balanced, and challenging FFT experience
It wasn't a community effort
It wasn't balanced (Too focused on difficult)

My opinion is that 1.3 goals weren't reached (While still being a great mod), because there are still a lot of things that should/can be improved
Now, please stop posting with an alt account; If you must post something, wait for the end of the ban and then return here, like I did
Otherwise you can go to FFH chat

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

Archael2

It was very much a community effort, you just weren't here for when tons of people were working on it at once. I can give you a list of people who worked put in a great deal of work into 1.3 besides myself in it's earlier stages.

As for balance, that's very debatable. 1.3 is balanced to be as difficult as it intended to be, if you balance it to be easier, then that is a new goal for 1.4, but it was never a 1.3 goal for the game to be easier. Are you trying to say that 1.3 isn't more balanced than vanilla? Because if you're not, then 1.3 reached it's goal of increasing balance.

Like I said, you can do whatever you want with your project, including lowering the difficulty, but don't try to tell people that YOUR goals for 1.4 were 1.3's original goals which were never realized. 1.3 was never meant to be any easier than it is currently, it wasn't meant to cater to average FFT players, and it wasn't meant to be like easytype or any other goal you're throwing out now. Those are new, 1.4 goals, not 1.3 goals. And that's fine. But don't try to pass them off as something that they are not.

Dome

Quote from: "Voldemort2"It was very much a community effort, you just weren't here for when tons of people were working on it at once.

As for balance, that's very debatable. 1.3 is balanced to be as difficult as it intended to be, if you balance it to be easier, then that is a new goal for 1.4, but it was never a 1.3 goal for the game to be easier. Are you trying to say that 1.3 isn't more balanced than vanilla? Because if you're not, then 1.3 reached it's goal of increasing balance.

Like I said, you can do whatever you want with your project, including lowering the difficulty, but don't try to tell people that YOUR goals for 1.4 were 1.3's original goals which were never realized.
I will reply to you only once more, because this topic is not for discussing such things
(Also, you shouldn't post with an alt anymore)
- Community? It may have been at the beginning, but not in the later parts, because YOU were the only on that decided what to put in, and nobody else. Your attitude "I am the only one right, if you don't agree with me GTFO" prevented the others to give their feedback about any change
In fact, the last few changes were purely made by you

- Balanced? FFT 1.3 it's focused just on difficult
WAY too focused on the difficult part, even "fake difficult"...and there are still other wrong things in 1.3, IMHO: That's why I say it's not balanced
When I say that FFT 1.3 didn't reach his goals, I mean that it fails to be an upgraded version of FFT, because, as I already said, it's just a difficult patch, while it could have been awesome
^That's my opinion, ofc
You can agree or disagree, but I won't change it

Now, think/say/do whatever you want, but leave this topic to the ones that want to work for FFT 1.4

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"

Archael2

Quote- Community? It may have been at the beginning, but not in the later parts, because YOU were the only on that decided what to put in, and nobody else. Your attitude "I am the only one right, if you don't agree with me GTFO" prevented the others to give their feedback about any change
It was a community project all along, like I said, you just weren't here for 75% of it. You're rather new to FFH, you know. And I never had an attitude like that. I ALWAYS posted feedback threads before releasing updates. Please stop flat out lying. 1.3 has so many community-suggested changes in each and every version I can't even count.

QuoteBalanced? FFT 1.3 it's focused just on difficult
Yes, balance. 1.3 is focused on balance between player vs AI enemies and it does this well. It's ALSO a hard mode patch. Why you are choosing to ignore this is beyond me.
The fact that 1.3 has a huge focus on difficulty is one of it's goals.

QuoteWAY too focused on the difficult part, even "fake difficult"...and there are still other wrong things in 1.3, IMHO: That's why I say it's not balanced
When I say that FFT 1.3 didn't reach his goals, I mean that it fails to be an upgraded version of FFT, because, as I already said, it's just difficult
Again, it is VERY focused on difficulty because that's one of it's goals. FFT needed ALOT of increase in difficulty, and it got it. I'm not going to reply to your fake difficulty claim, because you and I both know fake difficulty is a fallacy.

QuoteIMHO
EXACTLY. INYO: Meaning, the 1.4 goals YOU are now declaring, which have nothing to do with 1.3 goals. You are free to make 1.4, 1.5, or 1.999 and make any goals / changes to it, but don't try to advertise by mincing the intentions or achievements of 1.3.