Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2
Asmo X [Posts: 1689]
  • View Profile
  • share
  • [November 06, 2010, 06:55:31 AM]
Why your project isn't going to be finished
« on: November 06, 2010, 06:55:31 AM »
Making a patch is probably not going to be a great deal of fun, especially if you want to create a new story and a new world. Here is where most patch ideas go wrong:

1) You have an elaborate fantasy world with a great story and a million characters. Who cares. Your lore isn't going to get a game made. 99% of making this world happen is event editing and other mindless drudgery. Can you edit events and are you willing to? Does your patch need ASM hacks and who is going to supply them? These are the relevant questions and until you can answer them, kindly keep your elf story to yourself.

2) Your idea is probably too big. I've said this before, but a lot of people around here don't seem to have much of a frame of reference outside of huge, bloated JRPGS. When the time comes to make a patch, people want to make something as large in scope as a normal JRPG because they don't have faith in the elegance of shorter stories or don't have the requisite experience with storytelling in other forms to realise that short, succinct stories can be better and more worthwhile than huge, bloated epics. Most people are not good writers, but many people want to make a game or a patch. Think small. Learn the art of being concise and removing elements from your story that are beloved but unnecessary.

Common counter arguments:

1) I'm working alone. Cut me some slack.
A: Working alone is only a big deal if your idea is beyond the capability of one person. You may love the idea you are working on, but it might not be a project you can complete. There will be other, smaller ideas that you love.

2) I'm doing it for fun.
A: I find it hard to believe people enjoy working on unfinishable projects. If you're throwing work at a project, that is work you are intending to drive the project towards completion. That is what you want. Don't then try to cop out of this by insinuating that finishing is optional. You want to finish, admit it. Then admit that your project is beyond your means.

3) Real life gets in the way.
A: It invariably does when you take on a project that requires 5 straight years of your life.

This is an article written by the creator of Spelunky about finishing games. Everyone needs to read it: http://makegames.tumblr.com/post/1136623767/finishing-a-game

"Writing your idea down is not starting the damn game. Writing a design document is not starting the damn game. Assembling a team is not starting the damn game. Even doing graphics or music is not starting the damn game. It’s easy to confuse “preparing to start the damn game” with “starting the damn game”. Just remember: a damn game can be played, and if you have not created something that can be played, it’s not a damn game!"
Archael
  • share
  • [November 06, 2010, 07:44:24 AM]
Re: Why your project isn't going to be finished
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2010, 07:44:24 AM »
Truer words have never been uttered in this site. I lost count of how many projects I've seen that never went anywhere because of the scenario Asmo is describing above. This post reeks of experience and everyone looking to make an enjoyable, >FINISHED, PLAYABLE< mod for this (or any game) should take this advice to heart.

If the above advice is followed, this site's productivity (and the amount of playable content) will skyrocket.

10/10
Cheetah [Posts: 3654]
  • View Profile
  • share
  • [November 07, 2010, 02:11:27 AM]
Re: Why your project isn't going to be finished
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2010, 02:11:27 AM »
That is a great link.

Current Projects:
Sic Parvis Magna
Dominic NY18 [Posts: 829]
  • View Profile
  • share
  • [November 09, 2010, 12:09:35 AM]
Re: Why your project isn't going to be finished
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2010, 12:09:35 AM »
I've linked this topic to the (revamped) Announcement topic. Hopefully, people are reading and taking it to heart.
Kagebunji [Posts: 4307]
  • View Profile
  • share
  • [November 09, 2010, 05:48:48 PM]
Re: Why your project isn't going to be finished
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2010, 05:48:48 PM »
True, yeah. But truth is, that people still give too much of a fuck about all new sprites(and if they can't do it themselves, they count on us, and spriters number have depleted lately, sadly), jobs, and lastly story(wich is really the basic of patch). So people, read this, follow these points, and you will have nice patches that hopefully get finished somehow.

Thou art I, and I art thou...
MysticKnightFF5
  • share
  • [January 01, 2011, 10:28:56 PM]
Re: Why your project isn't going to be finished
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2011, 10:28:56 PM »
Well this thread is mean. Accurate to all hell, but mean. xD
That article forgot to mention perseverance all on its own. Some people just do not have what it takes to make a full game and REQUIRES partners to help finish it, or start it.
Zuzka [Posts: 21]
  • View Profile
  • share
  • [March 28, 2011, 09:20:45 PM]
Re: Why your project isn't going to be finished
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2011, 09:20:45 PM »
What a negative outlook. This would be better titled 'Why I'll never amount to anything' :gay:
MysticKnightFF5
  • share
  • [March 28, 2011, 10:25:06 PM]
Re: Why your project isn't going to be finished
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2011, 10:25:06 PM »
The truth cannot be negative, only the truth.
Dome [Posts: 4890]
  • View Profile
  • share
  • [March 28, 2011, 10:32:18 PM]
Re: Why your project isn't going to be finished
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2011, 10:32:18 PM »
This may look a little harsh, but, once upon a time, FFH was flooded by people that wanted to make patches with OVER 9000 changes of everything, only managing to use bandwith and make Xif pay more the domain

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"
Queen of Palemoon
Celdia [Posts: 1640]
  • View Profile
  • http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198029710324/
  • share
  • [March 29, 2011, 02:19:05 AM]
Re: Why your project isn't going to be finished
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2011, 02:19:05 AM »
I think you're missing the spirit of the message here, Zuzka. If you didn't read the link that's at the end of that first post, do so. Its a long read but its a good one that everyone trying to make a patch here should read. Asmo may come off as harsh but every point he makes is a valid one.
Unreliable as a Mime.
The Damned [Posts: 2168]
  • View Profile
  • share
  • [March 29, 2011, 07:23:51 AM]
Re: Why your project isn't going to be finished
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2011, 07:23:51 AM »
As usual, I have to agree with Celdia. I didn't even see that link all the times before that I looked at this thread (or perhaps I just didn't ever make away to reading it), but really is just sensible advice; further more, it doesn't come as harshly as Asmo, though just because Asmo is (always) harsh-sounding doesn't mean his points are any less legitimate.

"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"
Zuzka [Posts: 21]
  • View Profile
  • share
  • [March 29, 2011, 08:35:18 AM]
Re: Why your project isn't going to be finished
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2011, 08:35:18 AM »
Okay after reading the link I understand. I missed the possible humor and the link.
This may look a little harsh, but, once upon a time, FFH was flooded by people that wanted to make patches with OVER 9000 changes of everything, only managing to use bandwith and make Xif pay more the domain
I think you're missing the spirit of the message here, Zuzka. If you didn't read the link that's at the end of that first post, do so. Its a long read but its a good one that everyone trying to make a patch here should read. Asmo may come off as harsh but every point he makes is a valid one.
and I can see the reason for the negative tone Asmo presented this link in now I've seen the archives.
Also I don't assume you're  :gay: nor care if you're  :gay:, just wanted to use it.

Can someone make :more: smileys like this?
MysticKnightFF5
  • share
  • [March 29, 2011, 10:50:57 AM]
Re: Why your project isn't going to be finished
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2011, 10:50:57 AM »
oh dear god...smily spamming, you ma'am, belong at Dome's side.
Queen of Palemoon
Celdia [Posts: 1640]
  • View Profile
  • http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198029710324/
  • share
  • [March 29, 2011, 06:05:29 PM]
Re: Why your project isn't going to be finished
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2011, 06:05:29 PM »
Well in her defense, they are cute smilies. I'm glad you did go read everything, Zuzka.

And yes, I could make piles of smilies like those. I'm just not inclined to. :P I certainly have the tools to do it. However if this discussion is going to continue on about smilies we should take it to a new thread elsewhere.
Asmo X [Posts: 1689]
  • View Profile
  • share
  • [April 05, 2011, 04:39:04 PM]
Re: Why your project isn't going to be finished
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2011, 04:39:04 PM »
Was not expecting to see half a dozen new posts here after not being around for several months. This whole OP can be summed up very easily like this. You see in that link how there's that diagram where the 3 circles overlap? You see the "Games I want to have made" circle? You see the big part of that circle that doesn't overlap with any other circles? That's where those hacks belong that you used to see on FFH all the time where the person wanted to hack the whole story. Those games do not get finished. Those patches are fun to think about, but that's it. They don't go anywhere.
Dome [Posts: 4890]
  • View Profile
  • share
  • [April 05, 2011, 05:37:21 PM]
Re: Why your project isn't going to be finished
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2011, 05:37:21 PM »
Was not expecting to see half a dozen new posts here after not being around for several months. This whole OP can be summed up very easily like this. You see in that link how there's that diagram where the 3 circles overlap? You see the "Games I want to have made" circle? You see the big part of that circle that doesn't overlap with any other circles? That's where those hacks belong that you used to see on FFH all the time where the person wanted to hack the whole story. Those games do not get finished. Those patches are fun to think about, but that's it. They don't go anywhere.
Long time no see Asmo!
What's up?

"Be wise today so you don't cry tomorrow"
MysticKnightFF5
  • share
  • [April 06, 2011, 12:51:23 AM]
Re: Why your project isn't going to be finished
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2011, 12:51:23 AM »
Was not expecting to see half a dozen new posts here after not being around for several months. This whole OP can be summed up very easily like this. You see in that link how there's that diagram where the 3 circles overlap? You see the "Games I want to have made" circle? You see the big part of that circle that doesn't overlap with any other circles? That's where those hacks belong that you used to see on FFH all the time where the person wanted to hack the whole story. Those games do not get finished. Those patches are fun to think about, but that's it. They don't go anywhere.
What he said.
Phlashblazer [Posts: 45]
  • View Profile
  • http://www.phlashblazer.webs.com
  • share
  • [July 24, 2011, 07:36:52 AM]
Re: Why your project isn't going to be finished
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2011, 07:36:52 AM »
Really great insight built upon other members experiences, def a solid read for all members to get some sound advice.

Even so, my hands will bring relief to people who have learned to live without hope, a human being who feeds on his brother is not a man anymore... he is a mad dog, and should be dealt the same fate.
Durbs [Posts: 617]
  • View Profile
  • share
  • [January 14, 2012, 03:30:53 PM]
Re: Why your project isn't going to be finished
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2012, 03:30:53 PM »
I think this is a good contribution here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYAiZ5GigeY

"Evanescence... what a sad word..." -Agrias Oaks

Pages: [1] 2