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LastingDawn [Posts: 3452]
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  • [February 05, 2009, 12:49:22 PM]
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« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2009, 12:49:22 PM »
Quote from: "Rhue"
I like the idea of "Battle cry". You can make it add +1 PA to nearby allies and Regen to the user. It should cost some MP.

Maybe add some skill similar to Mimic Titan. I can see it being very useful for a knight, and it fits too. Make it cost a lot of Mp though.

Finally, you could add a skill that lowers all the CT of a enemy unit. Like an improved version of the mediator's Persuade. It could be called something like paralyzing strike". I can see it being very useful if you were in control of said knight, but i doubt that the enemy AI would take advantage of it.


Unfortunately it's not possible to stack any Pa/Ma/Sp, bonuses with Status effects, also if a skill is to give Any +Pa/Ma/Sp, it will need an MP cost (Excluding Reliquian's Advisor's Signet) The MP cost will be highly costly, even Vanilla didn't have any multiple +Pa/Ma/Sp bonuses, and if I make it affordable to Knights MP, then other classes will be able to abuse it, unless it has a massive CT, but that in itself is flawed. I do like the idea of giving it Haste though. With the dissolved Time Mage, it makes sense for a Knight to gain such a respectively fantastic battle tactic.

The Mimic Titan, thought is something that people seem to be thinking about I guess the Knight can have a DO ranged move for their new set.

That is a problem... considering the idea for a multi - Persuade, but that is a Beyond powerful move, far beyond anything a player can weild in Vanilla... I'll think about it for the Red Mage class though.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by LastingDawn »
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
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A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
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Shade [Posts: 1078]
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  • [February 05, 2009, 01:53:12 PM]
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« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2009, 01:53:12 PM »
What I think of speed ruin is... nah almost never use it. Anothers are so god damm powerfull compared to MA ruin and PA ruin.

Also new idea the Dull Hit
What it does it will have change to do knockback

Also about stab.
There is alot of things that give evade. so yeah I think it is posible because there is many things that does it. So should'n it be posible to ingore enemys weapon's %?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Shade »
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Dokurider [Posts: 2807]
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  • [February 05, 2009, 05:15:02 PM]
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« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2009, 05:15:02 PM »
Quote
Interesting... what did you have in mind?


Spears, Crossbows, Axes?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Dokurider »
boomkick
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  • [February 05, 2009, 07:55:19 PM]
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« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2009, 07:55:19 PM »
I would have them stick to swords and knight swords. You don't see Knights running around with spears that often. Axes...maybe, but isn't that for another class? If it isn't then that would be cool.
Crossbows should stay with Arbalist.

How about some form of shielding since the Knight is a melee physical class.

Defensive Stance- Gives Shell and/or Protect and/or Defending.
Jump Strike- 3 Panel Range. Basically Jump, but the vertical tolerance is 1...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by boomkick »
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  • [February 05, 2009, 09:05:59 PM]
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« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2009, 09:05:59 PM »
Quote from: "boomkick"
I would have them stick to swords and knight swords. You don't see Knights running around with spears that often. Axes...maybe, but isn't that for another class? If it isn't then that would be cool.
Crossbows should stay with Arbalist.

How about some form of shielding since the Knight is a melee physical class.

Defensive Stance- Gives Shell and/or Protect and/or Defending.
Jump Strike- 3 Panel Range. Basically Jump, but the vertical tolerance is 1...


You don't see a lot of things, doesn't mean it shouldn't exist.

The reason I think Spears, Axes, and Crossbows would be good for Knights is that they are straight PA*WP damage.

Knights would be good with Axes because, unlike other classes that can equip Axes, they can take a hit or two. They can afford to gamble with the Axe. Nice Weapon Evade too.

Spears would be a nice addition. Equippable with a shield, strong, etc. Only problem is that it will infringe on the Lancer's job (is there a Lancer in Mercenaries? I probably should look.). Lancer probably would need an update too BTW.

Being able to equip crossbows would be really neat. It would basically turn the Knight into a living tank, minus the go anywhere attitude. Breaking stuff from afar, I think it would be a good compliment.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Dokurider »
LastingDawn [Posts: 3452]
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  • [February 06, 2009, 12:14:12 AM]
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« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2009, 12:14:12 AM »
Quote from: "Shade"
What I think of speed ruin is... nah almost never use it. Anothers are so god damm powerfull compared to MA ruin and PA ruin.

Also new idea the Dull Hit
What it does it will have change to do knockback

Also about stab.
There is alot of things that give evade. so yeah I think it is posible because there is many things that does it. So should'n it be posible to ingore enemys weapon's %?

There is not one way to make it so it only stops Weapon Guard, that's not really that great as it stands anyhow... Dull Hit isn't very... useful, anyhow the Knockback, the only two places where they can be used, is not going to the Knight.

Stab would just be a nonevadable, something or other, the ability name "Stab" doesn't represent this well.



Quote from: "Dokurider"
Quote
Interesting... what did you have in mind?

Spears, Crossbows, Axes?

That's an interesting thought... but Axes are being taken out of the game, for the Claws of course. Though I'm not sure if I want Knights to be able to equip Spears... won't people infinitely prefer thoser over swords?  Crossbows sounds nice though.

Quote from: "boomkick"
I would have them stick to swords and knight swords. You don't see Knights running around with spears that often. Axes...maybe, but isn't that for another class? If it isn't then that would be cool.
Crossbows should stay with Arbalist.

How about some form of shielding since the Knight is a melee physical class.

Defensive Stance- Gives Shell and/or Protect and/or Defending.
Jump Strike- 3 Panel Range. Basically Jump, but the vertical tolerance is 1...


Defensive Stance is kind of a... poor man's Brace, not sure how much use it would see. Jump Strike is too... far too... similar to Jump from the Dragoon's set. I'm not sure I like that one very much.


Quote from: "Dokurider"
Quote from: "boomkick"
I would have them stick to swords and knight swords. You don't see Knights running around with spears that often. Axes...maybe, but isn't that for another class? If it isn't then that would be cool.
Crossbows should stay with Arbalist.

How about some form of shielding since the Knight is a melee physical class.

Defensive Stance- Gives Shell and/or Protect and/or Defending.
Jump Strike- 3 Panel Range. Basically Jump, but the vertical tolerance is 1...

You don't see a lot of things, doesn't mean it shouldn't exist.

The reason I think Spears, Axes, and Crossbows would be good for Knights is that they are straight PA*WP damage.

Knights would be good with Axes because, unlike other classes that can equip Axes, they can take a hit or two. They can afford to gamble with the Axe. Nice Weapon Evade too.

Spears would be a nice addition. Equippable with a shield, strong, etc. Only problem is that it will infringe on the Lancer's job (is there a Lancer in Mercenaries? I probably should look.). Lancer probably would need an update too BTW.

Being able to equip crossbows would be really neat. It would basically turn the Knight into a living tank, minus the go anywhere attitude. Breaking stuff from afar, I think it would be a good compliment.


Well... they can't break anything in Mercenaries that's all been moved over to the Traveler who has ranged Break abilities now, "Rust Armor, Rust Helmet" so on and so far.

They can equip Crossbows though, not sure what specialty they will have, if any, considering Arbalist's use two of them. Also yes, there is indeed a "Lancer" in Mercenaries, they are called Dragoons and are a pretty anti monster class, with a few special abilities which you can read in the (far from updated) Mercenaries MAster Change Guide, probably on the second page... (probably my fault for not stickying it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by LastingDawn »
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

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  • [February 06, 2009, 03:34:16 AM]
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« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2009, 03:34:16 AM »
What skills have you given them so far?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by AngrySurprisedFace »
tithin [Posts: 529]
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  • [February 06, 2009, 03:37:23 AM]
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« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2009, 03:37:23 AM »
Would the Accumulate skill (IE, Special characters Squire skill, the one that gives +1str / spe etc) be an appropriate fit? It seems like it would fit well with the direction you're taking the knights.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by tithin »
14:45  @SilentB         ò "Hey, Cosgrove, how come you never married?"
 14:45  @SilentB         ò "Because I eat too much meat."
 14:46  @Celdia          ò Heresy. No such thing as 'too much meat'
 14:47  @Celdia          ò One night with tithin would teach you that.
LastingDawn [Posts: 3452]
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  • [February 06, 2009, 03:42:23 AM]
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« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2009, 03:42:23 AM »
Yes... but I want to avoid using Any +Pa/Ma/Sp, just the same as avoiding using them, Unless I can have them only be a percentage power up that can't be stacked.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by LastingDawn »
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

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Skip Sandwich [Posts: 994]
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  • [February 06, 2009, 03:54:01 AM]
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« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2009, 03:54:01 AM »
a percentage based non-stacking power up would probablly have to be in the form of a status effect change, similar to how protect and berserk work, only it'd be a berserk that didn't cause the player to lose control of the unit and had a set duration.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Skip Sandwich »
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  • [February 06, 2009, 03:56:28 AM]
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« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2009, 03:56:28 AM »
Quote from: "Skip Sandwich"
a percentage based non-stacking power up would probablly have to be in the form of a status effect change, similar to how protect and berserk work, only it'd be a berserk that didn't cause the player to lose control of the unit and had a set duration.


In essence like FFTA2's Attack up and stuff.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by ShadowX »
LastingDawn [Posts: 3452]
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  • [February 06, 2009, 04:01:03 AM]
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« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2009, 04:01:03 AM »
You got it! That's the idea I want to implement! Let's hope the ASMer's will agree with our sentiments.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by LastingDawn »
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

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tithin [Posts: 529]
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  • [February 06, 2009, 04:27:42 AM]
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« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2009, 04:27:42 AM »
A percentage based increase would be a good idea. So we'd need a new accumulate skill that grants a, what, say 25% increase?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by tithin »
14:45  @SilentB         ò "Hey, Cosgrove, how come you never married?"
 14:45  @SilentB         ò "Because I eat too much meat."
 14:46  @Celdia          ò Heresy. No such thing as 'too much meat'
 14:47  @Celdia          ò One night with tithin would teach you that.
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PX_Timefordeath [Posts: 1781]
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  • [February 06, 2009, 04:57:56 AM]
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« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2009, 04:57:56 AM »
Charge!: Causes all critical units around the knight to gain berserk, invisibility, haste, etc.

Shock:Um...

Rending Sabre: The knight strikes the enemy with such force that the unit behind him gets damaged too. Mid accuracy?

Heat Strike: Fire damage and chance to berserk?

Guardian: Inflicts CT=0 and invisibility to allied units surrounding the knight? Might fit more with warder

Heratic Strike: Deals increased damage to units with lower faith/whatever it's called now

Just throwing out random suggestions
dwib [Posts: 674]
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  • [February 06, 2009, 05:26:03 AM]
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« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2009, 05:26:03 AM »
knights are usually just basic classes, so i don't like giving them fancy abilities like swordskills... that's just me.
however i do like archeal's low faith attack

heavy strike - deals % damage of enemy HP (like demi)
swiftness - unevadable weapon damage
ironclad - protect + slow on user
wild slash - attack in 3 directions for low damage
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by dwib »
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Shade [Posts: 1078]
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  • [February 06, 2009, 11:21:07 AM]
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« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2009, 11:21:07 AM »
Saumurai Stance - Have's low % to give opponent critical status.
Stone crash - Charge attack that remove's petrify and kills opponent.(Yeah It takes times to hit with this so...)
Strong Hit - Hit's enemy and enemy won't get turn for while, so it's low % change make CT 0
War Cry - give's everyone in map 1 PA and very low change to get berserk.

Yeah got nice ideas.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Shade »
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LastingDawn [Posts: 3452]
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  • [February 06, 2009, 12:30:59 PM]
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« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2009, 12:30:59 PM »
Quote from: "tithin"
A percentage based increase would be a good idea. So we'd need a new accumulate skill that grants a, what, say 25% increase?

Correct, 25% added.

Quote from: "PX_Timefordeath"
Charge!: Causes all critical units around the knight to gain berserk, invisibility, haste, etc.

Shock:Um...

Rending Sabre: The knight strikes the enemy with such force that the unit behind him gets damaged too. Mid accuracy?

Heat Strike: Fire damage and chance to berserk?

Guardian: Inflicts CT=0 and invisibility to allied units surrounding the knight? Might fit more with warder

Heratic Strike: Deals increased damage to units with lower faith/whatever it's called now

Just throwing out random suggestions

Charge! - With how easy it is to fall into a Critical Status, this might be a bit extreme... I will consider it for their secret skill.

Shock - is originally their Secret Skill, but I like Magic Strike a lot more then that.

Rending Sabre - Too close to Lavian's Strikethrough move.

Heat Strike- A bit generic... not sure I want to take that path.

Guardian fits Warder more, yes. But Ct = 00 isn't possible to add status too.

Heretic Strike - Not a very... fitting move... for a Knight in which many are employed by Church and State.


Quote from: "dwib"
knights are usually just basic classes, so i don't like giving them fancy abilities like swordskills... that's just me.
however i do like archeal's low faith attack

heavy strike - deals % damage of enemy HP (like demi)
swiftness - unevadable weapon damage
ironclad - protect + slow on user
wild slash - attack in 3 directions for low damage

Heavy Strike - there is no PA formula that deals a % of HP, and I don't want them to be based on Magic.

Swiftness - If it's a decent amount of MP it seems pretty well done.

Ironclad - Very nice! But... it will need something else other then Protect to counteract slow.

Wild Slash - No fitting animations sadly.

Quote from: "Shade"
Saumurai Stance - Have's low % to give opponent critical status.
Stone crash - Charge attack that remove's petrify and kills opponent.(Yeah It takes times to hit with this so...)
Strong Hit - Hit's enemy and enemy won't get turn for while, so it's low % change make CT 0
War Cry - give's everyone in map 1 PA and very low change to get berserk.

Yeah got nice ideas.


Samurai Stance - There's no formula based around PA for this move, and I don't want the Knight class to have to rely on Magic.

Stone Crush - interesting... but not truly very useful, unless I make the AI more efficient at curing Petrify Status.

Strong Hit - Not possible with out currently formula.

War Cry - Far too much and the "chance" for Berserk isn't quite possible with any Pa/Ma/Sp/ formula.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by LastingDawn »
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!
boomkick
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  • [February 06, 2009, 04:10:19 PM]
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« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2009, 04:10:19 PM »
End Life- At a VERY VERY low chance, crystalize a downed/dead unit. (about 2-5%).

Anyways, LD maybe if u decides on a few things you could update your first place to include how far you have gotten in ideas and if we need anymore?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by boomkick »
tithin [Posts: 529]
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  • [February 07, 2009, 12:55:18 AM]
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« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2009, 12:55:18 AM »
Quote from: "LastingDawn"
Quote from: "tithin"
A percentage based increase would be a good idea. So we'd need a new accumulate skill that grants a, what, say 25% increase?

Correct, 25% added.

Woohoo! I Contributed!

Quote
End Life- At a VERY VERY low chance, crystalize a downed/dead unit. (about 2-5%).


Low % = Bad. You'd essentially be sticking a blade in a downed enemy to finish them off. Why would it have a low %? It's not like that they would be able to dodge
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by tithin »
14:45  @SilentB         ò "Hey, Cosgrove, how come you never married?"
 14:45  @SilentB         ò "Because I eat too much meat."
 14:46  @Celdia          ò Heresy. No such thing as 'too much meat'
 14:47  @Celdia          ò One night with tithin would teach you that.
dwib [Posts: 674]
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  • [February 07, 2009, 01:33:09 AM]
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« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2009, 01:33:09 AM »
Quote from: "tithin"
Low % = Bad. You'd essentially be sticking a blade in a downed enemy to finish them off. Why would it have a low %? It's not like that they would be able to dodge

Agreed. Maybe around 35% chance. Assuming it misses the first time and hits the next, you'd spend 2 of your turns to make them a crystal 1 turn early, or if you are lucky you spend a turn crystalizing them 2 turns early. That doesn't seem very over powered to me, assuming you throw an MP cost on there.

Quote from: "LastingDawn"
ronclad - Very nice! But... it will need something else other then Protect to counteract slow


I was thinking no MP cost would help to counteract the slow, although i suppose regen could be thrown in and call it hibernate or something like that? A lot of possibilities for this...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by dwib »
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