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LastingDawn [Posts: 3415] Logged
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  • [February 03, 2009, 01:20:39 PM]
Knight Rehaul for Mercenaries (Rad/Ramza Skillset Update!)
« on: February 03, 2009, 01:20:39 PM »
August 22nd 2010

Thanks to Philsov and Mav for these skillset ideas!

Knights, Heretical Holy Men[/size]

Knights in Mercenaries are Nothing like their 1.3 or Vanilla counterparts. They have taken the "idealized Holy and Dark Knights" which many people and tried to put them into one. Of course their powers are nothing compared to true Holy and Dark Knights, I just thought the base fun to play off of. Not to mention allows a use for Worker 8's fantastic formulas!
As per suggestions, the Knights will have a bit more equipment variation, including Spears and Crossbows. (I always found it strange they couldn't equip them...) Mainly a PA class, of course. The fancy names are to show that Knight's are not as dimwitted as the games make them look, it also was to give them an interesting twist.

While a few of their skills are clearly based around Dark forces, they also have many Light moves as well, their secret skill is Holy based, so it tells you which one they lean towards. Also if you find that uncomfortable, just think of it of "fight fire with fire", why not fight "evil" with it's own power?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New Equip: Spears, Crossbows, Flails


Quote
Knights - got kicked out of both Holy and Dark knight school, kinda waffling around with both and willing to sacrifice their own well being to get the job done.

Iconics
Somber Drive - melee range, PA based.  Nasty damage with nasty recoil.
Battle Cry - Because Haste infliction ought to be shared <3
(Sanct Saber) -

Ramza
Abraxas - Good range (5?  Greater than xbow, imo), single target, 30% recoil, 15 MP.  PA-based damage.
Ironclad - self/ally only - inflicts protect, regen, and slow.  Moderate MP, instant.
Chaste Slice - low faith enemies suffer~.  14 MP, instant, weapon range.  MA-based???
Iai Strike - Moderate MP Cost, can only be used with certain weapon types. 50% Chance to -20 Br.
Final Sacrifice - Must be critical Sacrifice the last bit of your life force for a high damage sword strike.
Cimmerian Edge - A Dark Elemental Sword Strike

Rad
Nix = 50% chance to transform dead unit into a crystal - 30 MP, weapon range, small CT.
Transfusion = Range 0, AoE 1.  Heals surrounding units for 40% HP at the expense of 20% on the self.
Swiftness - 15 MP.  Unevadeable weapon strike (use ARH!  no guns).
Fanatic's Folly - Higher damage to Higher faith units.
Sacred Symbol - Holy Elemental Sword strike.
???
« Last Edit: August 16, 2009, 02:40:31 AM by LastingDawn »
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

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SentinalBlade [Posts: 1505] Logged
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  • [February 03, 2009, 01:24:26 PM]
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« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2009, 01:24:26 PM »
Personally,i think having the "Ruin" skills are a bit of a nerf. without the ability to have modifiable range, they lost most of their appeal to me. without that modifiable range, it is tough choice to put on something range oriented. having skills with a range of 3 on a range oriented class is very...well its just not as useful as it could be.

Dont get me wrong, i like how it gave meele classes a bit of range and more versatility. but i find myself either breaking a weapon with a high meele PA class, or physically attacking, rather than nerf an MA to death and then proceed to mop up.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by SentinalBlade »
LastingDawn [Posts: 3415] Logged
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  • [February 03, 2009, 01:27:39 PM]
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« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2009, 01:27:39 PM »
True as it stands that is really only useful against Zodiacs and certain bosses... Speed Ruin is nice though, always loved the Slow from 1.3. That's really about it though.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by LastingDawn »
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!
Guess who is back?
Shade [Posts: 1078] Logged
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  • [February 03, 2009, 02:25:25 PM]
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« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2009, 02:25:25 PM »
Maybe you should make equiment break's range 3 instead of stat break's, like that they would have lower change to break then ruins on 1.3.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Shade »
Upupupu...

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Dokurider [Posts: 2731] Logged
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  • [February 03, 2009, 02:58:38 PM]
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« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2009, 02:58:38 PM »
I suggested before that Ruins should reduce their respective stat by a percentage, mostly to deal with monsters. Archy-poo didn't like it. Just throwing that out there again.

Maybe they need some kind of actual attack? Y'know, like a, SWORDSKILL?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Dokurider »
boomkick Logged
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  • [February 03, 2009, 04:40:06 PM]
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« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2009, 04:40:06 PM »
Quote from: "Dokurider"
Maybe they need some kind of actual attack? Y'know, like a, SWORDSKILL?


That sounds interesting, but i was going for a more of a dueling type.

Stance (1, 2, 3). Basically a charged attack, yet it is unavoidable.
Guard Break- Destroys both the assessary (?) and the shield of a defending character.
Bull Ram- Basically a Dash Tackle, but it does more damage and the shield is there (couldn't this fit the warder?).
Magic Strike- Fitting Magic into his sword, he slashes very very far away, but at a huge penalty to him. (Destroy would work)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by boomkick »
Archael Logged
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  • [February 03, 2009, 05:43:31 PM]
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« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2009, 05:43:31 PM »
1.3 changes are not enough

not anymore

the rest of Mercenaries jobs are much more viable / can do pretty unique things

and 1.3 Knight would be left in the dust
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Archael »
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Dokurider [Posts: 2731] Logged
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  • [February 03, 2009, 06:23:49 PM]
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« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2009, 06:23:49 PM »
Maybe diversify their equipment? Specifically, weapons?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Dokurider »
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Shade [Posts: 1078] Logged
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  • [February 03, 2009, 06:46:12 PM]
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« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2009, 06:46:12 PM »
I think my idea got shifted away.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Shade »
Upupupu...

Zetsubou
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Dokurider [Posts: 2731] Logged
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  • [February 03, 2009, 07:02:53 PM]
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« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2009, 07:02:53 PM »
I liked your idea, actually.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Dokurider »
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Shade [Posts: 1078] Logged
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  • [February 03, 2009, 07:58:59 PM]
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« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2009, 07:58:59 PM »
Good thing that you liked it.

They could also have multiple breaks that they can break helmet and armor or weaopn or shield. but not in range it would be god modded.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Shade »
Upupupu...

Zetsubou
boomkick Logged
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  • [February 04, 2009, 03:17:54 AM]
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« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2009, 03:17:54 AM »
Taking something from FF9

Stock Break- Does damage to enemies in an area.
ThunderSlash- Does good damage to an enemy.
Dark Blade- Deals great damage at the cost of life.


Battle Cry- Increases PA (Or adds Haste) to himself and an area around him.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by boomkick »
Archael Logged
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  • [February 04, 2009, 03:22:56 AM]
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« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2009, 03:22:56 AM »
make Battle Cry MP Cost with a CT and add +1 PA to everything around it, enemies included

and yeah

let's give them some skills (some new sword skills might be cool too.. something like Gladiator's FFTA sword skills.. all melee range)


[All Require Sword, Melee Range, MP Cost, Instant]

Wind Blade - Wind
Tiamat Formula, no damage bonus, Evadeable, Requires Sword (so MA intensive jobs can't abuse it, get rid of equip sword), Weapon Strike
Deals 4(???) low power MA based hits... Kaimatachi (or some other wind animation on hit, Sandstorm???)




Dark Blade - Dark
- Ahriman Death Sentence-ish Animation for this, or something like that... no Night Sword
Drains HP if it hits




Holy Blade - Holy
- Circle Animation when it hits? ???
Deals incredibly high damage to low-faith enemies. (You'd have to play with Malak's formula for this)




etc just some ideas
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Archael »
Winner of the 2nd 1.3 AI Tournament
PX_Timefordeath [Posts: 1782] Logged
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  • [February 04, 2009, 03:35:45 AM]
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« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2009, 03:35:45 AM »
FF9 magic sword skills?
boomkick Logged
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  • [February 04, 2009, 05:28:45 PM]
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« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2009, 05:28:45 PM »
Maybe Holy Blade should be Holy Explosion?



Blizzaga/Firaga/Thundaga Sword
- Just as their name implies, except that the sword skills are elemental and go for their respective animations. (Blizzaga uses Statis, Firaga uses Crush, Thundaga uses Lightning Stab).
Climhazzard from FF9 is basically a AOE move.

Stab- Deals damage, ignores weapon guard only?
Pain- Circle animation, Unholy Sword Skill attacks one's soul (MP drain or %damage?)
Final Bracelet (Breath)- Giga Flare animation, Deals damage in a large area and adds Confusion (low chance) (2 Panel AOE).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by boomkick »
AngrySurprisedFace Logged
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  • [February 05, 2009, 03:33:08 AM]
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« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2009, 03:33:08 AM »
Knights seemed fine to me.

But I must agree, I didn't use Power Ruin, Magic Ruin, or Mind Ruin. At all, really. Speed Ruin was pretty much it.
Maybe (maybe..) if you wanted those skills used more you could make them have status effects? Power Ruin could be.. Paralyze? Magic Ruin could be Silence, and Mind Ruin could be confusion? I would suppose that they would get more use that way, rather than just sitting there being pretty.

But other than that, I like the 1.3 knight.

:P
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by AngrySurprisedFace »
LastingDawn [Posts: 3415] Logged
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  • [February 05, 2009, 05:15:28 AM]
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« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2009, 05:15:28 AM »
Quote from: "Shade"
Maybe you should make equiment break's range 3 instead of stat break's, like that they would have lower change to break then ruins on 1.3.

Interesting... but not really what I think I want. Equipment Breaks, from Long Range wouldn't be for everything. Come of think of it... wouldn't those abilities fit a magic user better? "Rust Weapon" "Rust Armor", in fact I think I'll use those to complete the Traveler's set. Good idea Shade!


Quote from: "Dokurider"
I suggested before that Ruins should reduce their respective stat by a percentage, mostly to deal with monsters. Archy-poo didn't like it. Just throwing that out there again.

Maybe they need some kind of actual attack? Y'know, like a, SWORDSKILL?

Oh if only! The reason I'm not so comfortable with the Ruins is their lowering of stats for the Whole of the battle, it's a break to players and not very denting on the AI and is just too good against bosses. Maybe we should ask one of the ASMer's to help us with that? If we do succeed in that, I wouldn't mind utilizing them somewhere.

Quote from: "boomkick"
Quote from: "Dokurider"
Maybe they need some kind of actual attack? Y'know, like a, SWORDSKILL?

That sounds interesting, but i was going for a more of a dueling type.

Stance (1, 2, 3). Basically a charged attack, yet it is unavoidable.
Guard Break- Destroys both the assessary (?) and the shield of a defending character.
Bull Ram- Basically a Dash Tackle, but it does more damage and the shield is there (couldn't this fit the warder?).
Magic Strike- Fitting Magic into his sword, he slashes very very far away, but at a huge penalty to him. (Destroy would work)

Stances eh? They would need a bit more of a niche to be of use, Charged, non avoidable, x3 is a bit much...

Guard Break isn't possible.

The shield part of Bull Ram isn't possible.

Magic Strike is interesting... it's a very Dark Knight-esque move, I'll consider it.

Quote from: "Archael"
1.3 changes are not enough

not anymore

the rest of Mercenaries jobs are much more viable / can do pretty unique things

and 1.3 Knight would be left in the dust

I agree now, in light of all of the new things flying about, they need to stand on their own.

Quote from: "Dokurider"
Maybe diversify their equipment? Specifically, weapons?
Interesting... what did you have in mind?

Quote from: "boomkick"
Taking something from FF9

Stock Break- Does damage to enemies in an area.
ThunderSlash- Does good damage to an enemy.
Dark Blade- Deals great damage at the cost of life.


Battle Cry- Increases PA (Or adds Haste) to himself and an area around him.

Hmm... Draw out range for Stock Break? I... don't know if I like that...

Thunderslash - Interesting... I'll consider it. Though it's basically a mini lightning stab (won't have the same formula though.)

Dark Blade, another Dark Knight esque move... perhaps...

Battle Cry - Haste around him, eh? That is an interesting thought... will need balanced accordingly.

Quote from: "Archael"
make Battle Cry MP Cost with a CT and add +1 PA to everything around it, enemies included

and yeah

let's give them some skills (some new sword skills might be cool too.. something like Gladiator's FFTA sword skills.. all melee range)


[All Require Sword, Melee Range, MP Cost, Instant]

Wind Blade - Wind
Tiamat Formula, no damage bonus, Evadeable, Requires Sword (so MA intensive jobs can't abuse it, get rid of equip sword), Weapon Strike
Deals 4(???) low power MA based hits... Kaimatachi (or some other wind animation on hit, Sandstorm???)




Dark Blade - Dark
- Ahriman Death Sentence-ish Animation for this, or something like that... no Night Sword
Drains HP if it hits




Holy Blade - Holy
- Circle Animation when it hits? ???
Deals incredibly high damage to low-faith enemies. (You'd have to play with Malak's formula for this)




etc just some ideas

I don't like stat raising  (or stat breaking)... unless we can cap it. Other then that, it's too far out of control.

Wind Blade - Very interesting! But the whole of the SpellBlade's are based around that? As well Requires Sword has been turned into Requires Knight Sword, unfortunately as it stands there would be no way to balance such.

Dark Blade - It would be exactly like Night Sword... don't want to take away from Gafgarion here.

Holy Blade - I like it! I think I will ask one of the ASMers to do something with this. Any thoughts for a specific formula?

Quote from: "boomkick"
Maybe Holy Blade should be Holy Explosion?



Blizzaga/Firaga/Thundaga Sword
- Just as their name implies, except that the sword skills are elemental and go for their respective animations. (Blizzaga uses Statis, Firaga uses Crush, Thundaga uses Lightning Stab).
Climhazzard from FF9 is basically a AOE move.

Stab- Deals damage, ignores weapon guard only?
Pain- Circle animation, Unholy Sword Skill attacks one's soul (MP drain or %damage?)
Final Bracelet (Breath)- Giga Flare animation, Deals damage in a large area and adds Confusion (low chance) (2 Panel AOE).

That is far too similar to Zozma's Elemental Blade for comfort, I don't like the idea.
Climhazzard is a bit... eh... we don't need another AoE.

Stab - How do you plan this?
Pain - % Damage sounds interesting... but... something doesn't sit right with me.
Final Breath - Knights are not magically inclined beings.

Quote from: "AngrySurprisedFace"
Knights seemed fine to me.

But I must agree, I didn't use Power Ruin, Magic Ruin, or Mind Ruin. At all, really. Speed Ruin was pretty much it.
Maybe (maybe..) if you wanted those skills used more you could make them have status effects? Power Ruin could be.. Paralyze? Magic Ruin could be Silence, and Mind Ruin could be confusion? I would suppose that they would get more use that way, rather than just sitting there being pretty.

But other than that, I like the 1.3 knight.

:P


While great for 1.3 it seems to be the concensus that they wouldn't fare well in a world full of new classes and redone abilities. Also I am not a fan of the ruins permanant effects. The Ruins doing status is too much like a physical oracle.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by LastingDawn »
"Moment's anger can revert to joy,
sadness can be turned to delight.
A nation destroyed cannot be restored,
the dead brought back to life."

Art of War

Beta & Gretchen Forever!!!!
Rhue Logged
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  • [February 05, 2009, 05:48:58 AM]
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« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2009, 05:48:58 AM »
I like the idea of "Battle cry". You can make it add +1 PA to nearby allies and Regen to the user. It should cost some MP.

Maybe add some skill similar to Mimic Titan. I can see it being very useful for a knight, and it fits too. Make it cost a lot of Mp though.

Finally, you could add a skill that lowers all the CT of a enemy unit. Like an improved version of the mediator's Persuade. It could be called something like paralyzing strike". I can see it being very useful if you were in control of said knight, but i doubt that the enemy AI would take advantage of it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by Rhue »
boomkick Logged
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  • [February 05, 2009, 06:15:39 AM]
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« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2009, 06:15:39 AM »
Stab is just something of a guess, maybe make it have an MP cost and be a completely unavoidable attack, by all means. This means regular weapon damage.

Or you could make it so that they bleed out like a gash (poison perhaps as a substitute?)

Final Breath is supposedly a sword skill and based off WP power.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by boomkick »
454Casull [Posts: 226] Logged
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  • [February 05, 2009, 06:46:40 AM]
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« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2009, 06:46:40 AM »
Quote from: "Archael"
Holy Blade - Holy
- Circle Animation when it hits? ???
Deals incredibly high damage to low-faith enemies. (You'd have to play with Malak's formula for this)

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 454Casull »
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