[Old] FFT Plus 1.02 upcoming changes

[Stretch]

Maybe give the Masamune more attack power in that case? Or make it a 3 panel long attack range so the sword as as stupidly long as it is in FF7.

[Dome]

Nah, maybe I'll just give it +1PA/MA or something like that
(I mean, I'd like to give it 2 panel range, but I doubt it's doable and the animation would suck)

[Eternal]

Giving it Range: 2 works fine. Just give it 2 Range in the Patcher and change the weapon type to Lunging. The animation will still be a slashing animation, but the katana won't look elongated in battle.

[Dome]

Really?
Is it tested? Because if it works and the animation does not suck that's it!
Masamune will have range 2 instead of one like the other katanas! (Sephy <3)

[SWFFT]

Is there any reason the Katana elements were chosen the way they were other than the animation colors (as in, the type of elemental enemies you'll encounter as the katana becomes available)?

[Dome]

I decided the element considering the animation
Btw, I'm thinking about making all the katanas available from Ch3 start, since the WP is the same

[Eternal]

Take it from me, Dome. You do NOT want Arena's system for items/weapons. It's what I originally did for PW and I regret it a ton. Keep weapon scaling for Katana. If you don't, it's going to be a bitch to balance.

[SWFFT]

All Katanas available from Ch3 start? Then that also means all Draw Outs available from Ch3 start? Does that mean you're going to make all Draw Outs have equal damage equations?

Also, I liked having Chiri in there since the Samurai seems more like an offensive job than supportive. So, making the rarest & final katana/draw out being a supportive one (Masamune) as opposed to a destructively offensive one (Chiri) seems out of place. If you want to keep all the elements in there for the rest, to me it'd make sense for the final Draw Out to be non-elemental (since there's no reason to favor one element over the other), but make it noticeably more powerful to compensate?

Although maybe I missed it...are all Draw Outs completely changed as well?

[Dome]

I'm not going to change it unless someone has a good idea, because I like the Samurai as it is now:
Huge attack power with Innate 2 hands and equip change to swap Katanas in-between battles. A weapon for each element and an awesome late-game weapon (Masamune)

Oh, and yes, all Draw outs will inflict damage (Samurai is an attacking unit) and Masamune won't have one: No element, no spirit to unleash.

[The Damned]

(Ugh. I finally fell asleep after was up since yesterday. Damn sloth.

Anyway, I "should" be working on my own equipment, but I too see problems and given that I saw both formerdeathcorps and RavenofRazgriz already commented, it further gives me an excuse to not be "productive".)

I too haven't exactly followed Plus very much. I've glanced at it from time to time, but given how...sub-par my desktop was (and still kinda is), I never got actually around to playing as with most people's patches or even watching videos of it.

That said, I have looked at the class thing about a week ago, so I'm not completely blind to what you're trying to do here. Similarly, I'm also commenting because I've noticed at least a couple of issues that have arisen with your equipment. In your push to make things more elemental, you seem to be encountering some of problems that I have (and, annoyingly, still am).

Besides what formerdeathcorps and RavenofRazgriz said, some of which I will be reiterating, partly because of how long-winded Raven was in this instance; no, Raven, my merely pointing out the obvious doesn't count as hypocrisy. Also partly because I think some of it's simply important to repeat:


1. Elemental End Game: It's probably for the best if you didn't make the majority of your "strongest" end-game weapons into elemental ones unless you're intentionally doing that to potentially weaken them overall. Even if you are, it's probably still not good, especially since all of your monsters are going to null, resistance and absorb at least 1 element respectively. I'm focusing on elements and, aside from Float (which indeed won't work on Earth-element weapons without some hacking...that I'm not even sure if is worth it), I have only used Null on one thing at the moment.

Regardless, I tend to agree with the idea that formerdeathcorps has (stated elsewhere that) the "strongest" end weapon should be relatively barren of attributes in most instances or, at least, non-elemental. Having rare weapons that are elemental are perfectly fine, though, and it's not like you can't have final weapons be elemental at all, especially since you're still probably focusing on elemental stuff far less than I; that alone should make things easier for you.


2. Self-Strengthening: That said, I actually think is the "real" (read: biggest) problem with your elemental greatest weapons: They all pretty much self-strength (and absorb) their own elements. This even though, IMO, self-strengthening should be largely avoided, at least on things that already have significant amounts of WP. It's fine on things like Rods or other weapons that ("should") have piss-poor WP. But putting it on most of the "final" weapons means they all have 25% more WP than is actually displayed. (And even if you plan on Plus being "easy", having almost all of them also absorb only makes this more problematic.)


3. Axes: I'm just going to echo what everyone else has said about Earthbreaker being egregiously overpowered, especially since it's the only final weapon that both self-strengthens & boost and is commercially available. (No, making it poach-only or even steal/one-of-kind only won't really fix the problem.) It similarly doesn't help that its WP is already higher than the two other Axes, which are otherwise "fine". At the very least, if you're not going to decrease Earthbreaker's power (since having it avoidable by Floating won't really help, like Raven said), then at least decrease W-EV to 10% or maybe 0%. Of course, even that won't really balance it considering it would just make its user easier to hit and thus heal with Earth attacks, but it would at least be a start.


4. Bags: To be perfectly blunt: If this is just a collection of random crap as you said, then why even bother keeping them around? You got rid of Chirijiraden solely because you wanted to. What's stopping you here? That said, P Bag Hydraskin Satchel is fine. The others are utterly outclassed by it, though, at least assuming the Bags still have the same crappy formula where their amount of WP largely doesn't matter. New H Bag is decent enough though, I guess.


5. Longbows: These are okay enough, save maybe the last two. It would be hypocritical of me chew you out for having a "Cupid Bow" in Perseus Bow when I have one that's "stronger", especially since you've already limited the range. But it just seems like it should have at least slightly less WP than it currently has, even if it is already weaker than Ultimus Bow. Yoichi Bow pretty much has the same problem as Earthbreaker, especially with having greater range than all other Longbows.


6. Cloth(e)s: If Persia and Cashmere are the way you say they're supposed to be, then I suppose these are fine since Ryozan Silk doesn't automatically obviate both of them.

7. Crossbows: Gastrophetes seems like it at least be forced 2 hands or something if it's going to outdo both all other crossbows and at least Rifle. Outside of that, Poison Bow seems better than everything else, but considering you're not exactly trying to have weapons be "equal" or anything....


8. Dictionaries: These probably have the only other elemental end weapon that isn't blatantly stronger than everything else in its category, which is frankly as it should since Necronomicon is still the strongest. It's just the other things are actually worth using. Well, as much as Dictionaries/Books/Tomes are worth using in most people's hacks and in vanilla.... (I suppose I should talk considering how overpowered most of my currently are.)


9. Flails: These are fine.


10. Guns: Even assuming these are still unavoidable, these are also pretty much fine, though I concur with formerdeathcorps that Gastrophetes still kinda outstrips Rifle, especially since Rifle is now forced 2 hands (as it should be IMO). Presumably Gastrophetes can still be used with a shield. So, you could either raise Rifle by another WP point, which would "only" raise its damage by another 25, or, better yet, reduce Gastrophetes' WP by a point or two or otherwise reduce its "obvious" dominance.


11. Harps: As formerdeathcorps also pointed out, as always Bloody Strings is better than the other two harps. It definitely needs less WP than the others, though I don't know if it has to be 33% weaker than.


12. Katana: Raven has already pointed out the problem with these.  There's absolutely no reason they should plateau as soon as they appear or that Masamune, the only rare one, should be actively worse than all of them even if they "shouldn't" be usable until Chapter 3 at earliest.


13. Knightswords: Similarly, there's no reason for these to instantly plateau as pointed out or to use Defender over Save the Queen considering that W-EV is physical only and you don't even have to buy Save the Queen like you do Defender. The issue with Chaos Blade is also true. By the time you (probably) get it, its "bonus" is pretty much worthless since its constantly obviated. "Ironically", it would probably be kinda of overpowered otherwise.


14. Knives: I really don't like Zorlin Shape, but I don't like Shock-esque abilities in general, at least as they are originally coded into FFT; the same with Drain abilities, hence my agreement that Bloody String is, always, the only Harp worth using unless you know you'll be fighting enemies that all Undead. Besides that, I don't really have anything else to say since these seem more than decently constructed aside from Air Knife.


15. Lances: Yeah, Dragon Whisker is easily the best one here and pretty much only worth using besides maybe the two elemental ones. There's really no reason this should be a White Robe in weapon form, especially on a unit that already can wear (heavy) armor.


16. Ninja Blades: Ignoring harping on Sasuke Knife, all I really have to say here is that Koga Knife should be easier to get than Iga Knife since Don't Act > Don't Move, especially on a close-range weapon.


17. Rods: I'd argue that Elemental Rod is greater even than Faith Rod since Always: Faith can at least backfire and Faith Rod has the worst WP in the game, which is fitting since Rods should have horrible WP anyway.


18. Staves: Like formerdeathcorps said, these are all rather underpowered, even the "strongest" one of Mace of Zeus and even though they're still MA*WP in your patch. Staves are quite difficult in general, though, especially Healing Staff. Still, something needs to be done, especially since these don't really seem to have that much focus despite having the most Item Attributes of any weapon category. I concur with Neophyte Ronin about White Staff at least, especially since AI probably still won't be able to use it correctly to cancel Doom even if it's 100% cancellation.


19. Sticks: I'm surprised that no one else has said this, but your version of Octagon Rod actually seems like it might be at least a bit overpowered. If it literally cancels "everything", then doesn't that mean it cancels Charging and Performing as well? At 100%? With sizeable damage and range 2? ...Yeah. Outside of that, Gokuu Rod is still pretty damn worthless, though I'm not really blaming you that given the use of the word "still".


20. Swords: I don't really have an opinion on these outside of saying it's "nice" to see Coral Sword get rather large boost and weird to see Rune Blade not boosting MA even by 1. Otherwise, shrug.


P.S. Innate Equip Change on any class is automatically going to make that class the best class in almost every circumstance.

Dome is also from Italy, so he likely refers to the sub-alpine lake in the provinces of Brescia and Trento, Lake Idro.  Being sub-alpine, I think it has to be a blast of alpine water, subzero temperatures perhaps.

Hmmm...I had suspected he wasn't a native English speaker, but given his Internet English is more passable than most Americans--sadly--and quite a few other native English speakers, I never bothered asking. I also never bothered partly because I felt it wasn't any of my business.

It makes quite a bit of sense, though. Not with regards to anything "bad", mind you.

[RavenOfRazgriz]

Take it from me, Dome. You do NOT want Arena's system for items/weapons. It's what I originally did for PW and I regret it a ton. Keep weapon scaling for Katana. If you don't, it's going to be a bitch to balance.

I recommend listening to this man.  He did the same thing you're doing here, sortof.  I think yours is a bit worse since you're basically making all the numbers the same but it was the same thing.

"You don't do that Eternal, it's not fun to be overwhelmed with options."
"But I want everything end-game viable, it'll be fine!"
"Whatever, bro..."

<Testing starts>

"All this equipment open so soon is overwhelming!"
"I have too many options!"

<On IRC>

"I told you so, Hooves."
"Shut up."



There's also the fact that every single person is posting and telling you how much of a bad idea this is, Dome.  It sounds like you basically want a Mystic Knight and not a Samurai... just make Samurai into a goddamn Mystic Knight and be done with it. 

[Dome]

Fine, FINE!
Enjoy your shitty, boring Katana progression which weakens the Samurai endgame limiting his options!


P.s: Thanks for the extensive feedback The Damned
I'll read it all after I'm back from work :-)

[RavenOfRazgriz]

I... I...

There are no words.

[Dome]

I... I...

There are no words.

What's the problem now?

[The Damned]

(Since you are apparently on the verge of giving Raven an aneurysm and I'm still not doing anything productive....)

I believe Raven's "problem" now is that while you have finally varied Katana...you've made them even worse. If was less about having any type of "progression", especially linearly, then it was every sword basically being the exact same minus the elemental switch; the fact that Masamune was both rare and the worst didn't help. Slight boost to Masamune aside, they're all even weaker now despite the fact that I don't think anyone had a problem with 13 WP, especially given how late you wanted people to get them anyway and how they're still governed by the never-100% Brave.

Additionally, it seems rather kneejerk to just power-down everything rather than address the "problem" that they're all elemental when they don't really have to. Even with all elemental weapons I have for Embargo, I've made sure that at least two or three weapons in every category or non-elemental.

To be more tactful than Raven (in this instance), I'll reiterate something he said: What exactly is it you want to do with Samurai and with Draw Out?

What you do with Katana will pretty much depend on that, and as he pointed out, given what you've said so far, you basically want them a lot closer to a Mystic Knight--think Beowulf but with elemental strikes--than vanilla Samurai. A somewhat bland Mystic Knight whose abilities only differ by what element they are. (I'm not judging you for this given I made the same error when I made Gunner for Embargo a year ago.)

So, yeah. Why exactly are you doing what you're doing with Draw Out?

[RavenOfRazgriz]

To borrow a visual from a friend of mine's anime review (of sorts):



The problem was never the other Katana being too strong, it was the clear and obvious laziness and blandness that basically everyone has pointed out.

[Dome]

Jesus Fucking Christ

I have the strong impulse to completely remove the Samurai once and for all. Always hated that freaking job.
And now, as always, the thing I hate the most is the one that is giving me the most trouble.

Whatever...
My plan is to make the Samurai a great fighting unit, both on the physical and on the magical side
It can do high damage with his melee attacks, or use magical skills that consume Katanas instead of Mp (Since the ASM hack that prevents Katanas from breaking is buggy, it won't be implemented)

Stats
(If you need a "reference" the highest multipliers are 140 Hp/140 Mp/141 Speed/140 PA/140 MA)
Also remember that each job can equip Knives, Bags, and all the accessories

Skillset

P.s: Many animations will be changed...

[Dome]

1. Elemental End Game: It's probably for the best if you didn't make the majority of your "strongest" end-game weapons into elemental ones unless you're intentionally doing that to potentially weaken them overall. Even if you are, it's probably still not good, especially since all of your monsters are going to null, resistance and absorb at least 1 element respectively. I'm focusing on elements and, aside from Float (which indeed won't work on Earth-element weapons without some hacking...that I'm not even sure if is worth it), I have only used Null on one thing at the moment.

Pretty much the bolded part.
I want the player to think if it's better to bring the strongest weapon (That can be absorbed/halved/etc etc) or one that is a bit less powerful but does not have those drawbacks

2. Self-Strengthening: That said, I actually think is the "real" (read: biggest) problem with your elemental greatest weapons: They all pretty much self-strength (and absorb) their own elements. This even though, IMO, self-strengthening should be largely avoided, at least on things that already have significant amounts of WP. It's fine on things like Rods or other weapons that ("should") have piss-poor WP. But putting it on most of the "final" weapons means they all have 25% more WP than is actually displayed. (And even if you plan on Plus being "easy", having almost all of them also absorb only makes this more problematic.)

Ok, no more Absorb&Boost on an already elemental weapon. Got it.

3. Axes: I'm just going to echo what everyone else has said about Earthbreaker being egregiously overpowered, especially since it's the only final weapon that both self-strengthens & boost and is commercially available. (No, making it poach-only or even steal/one-of-kind only won't really fix the problem.) It similarly doesn't help that its WP is already higher than the two other Axes, which are otherwise "fine". At the very least, if you're not going to decrease Earthbreaker's power (since having it avoidable by Floating won't really help, like Raven said), then at least decrease W-EV to 10% or maybe 0%. Of course, even that won't really balance it considering it would just make its user easier to hit and thus heal with Earth attacks, but it would at least be a start.

W.Ev of the Earthbreaker back to 10

4. Bags: To be perfectly blunt: If this is just a collection of random crap as you said, then why even bother keeping them around? You got rid of Chirijiraden solely because you wanted to. What's stopping you here? That said, P Bag Hydraskin Satchel is fine. The others are utterly outclassed by it, though, at least assuming the Bags still have the same crappy formula where their amount of WP largely doesn't matter. New H Bag is decent enough though, I guess.

Consider them as stat-sticks. And also as joke weapons

5. Longbows: These are okay enough, save maybe the last two. It would be hypocritical of me chew you out for having a "Cupid Bow" in Perseus Bow when I have one that's "stronger", especially since you've already limited the range. But it just seems like it should have at least slightly less WP than it currently has, even if it is already weaker than Ultimus Bow. Yoichi Bow pretty much has the same problem as Earthbreaker, especially with having greater range than all other Longbows.

All Bows will have range 5, WP of the Perseus bow down to 9

10. Guns: Even assuming these are still unavoidable, these are also pretty much fine, though I concur with formerdeathcorps that Gastrophetes still kinda outstrips Rifle, especially since Rifle is now forced 2 hands (as it should be IMO). Presumably Gastrophetes can still be used with a shield. So, you could either raise Rifle by another WP point, which would "only" raise its damage by another 25, or, better yet, reduce Gastrophetes' WP by a point or two or otherwise reduce its "obvious" dominance.

Rifle WP +1

13. Knightswords: Similarly, there's no reason for these to instantly plateau as pointed out or to use Defender over Save the Queen considering that W-EV is physical only and you don't even have to buy Save the Queen like you do Defender. The issue with Chaos Blade is also true. By the time you (probably) get it, its "bonus" is pretty much worthless since its constantly obviated. "Ironically", it would probably be kinda of overpowered otherwise.

Need more specific suggestions here, cause I don't know what to do with them atm

15. Lances: Yeah, Dragon Whisker is easily the best one here and pretty much only worth using besides maybe the two elemental ones. There's really no reason this should be a White Robe in weapon form, especially on a unit that already can wear (heavy) armor.

Which one do you think it's better?
Dragon whisker halves Holy/Dark
Dragon whisker WP down to 9

19. Sticks: I'm surprised that no one else has said this, but your version of Octagon Rod actually seems like it might be at least a bit overpowered. If it literally cancels "everything", then doesn't that mean it cancels Charging and Performing as well? At 100%? With sizeable damage and range 2? ...Yeah. Outside of that, Gokuu Rod is still pretty damn worthless, though I'm not really blaming you that given the use of the word "still".

The "cancel" is not 100%, is like every other weapon proc (unless I'm not properly recalling how a "Cancel" works when using a weapon)

[Dome]

Ok, I'm watching the sprites in the "Custom sprites" section and this is what I like most

spoiler: Calculator->Arcanist

spoiler: Male Samurai

spoiler: Male Time Mage

spoiler: Female Thief

spoiler: Male Geomancer

P.s: We still lack an alternate "Female Squire"
Any suggestion?

[Stretch]

The new sprites look great! My only suggestion is for the new Time Mage, the portrait looks weird. The face hole is too circular and gaping. I like the idea of evolving upon the Black Mage, though. If instead of a hood, the portrait was drawn as a low hat and a high collar, it wouldn't look so weird.