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Stacking Reaction Abilities

Started by Xifanie, November 08, 2008, 11:39:43 pm

Xifanie

November 08, 2008, 11:39:43 pm Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Xifanie
You can stack up to 6 reaction abilities per character.
This is due to a bug

Here is the priority list:

1- Movement
2- Support
?- -------------
3- Innate 4
4- Innate 3
5- Innate 2
6- Innate 1

See the empty slot? the reaction slot is supposed to be there. But because of a bug it will overwrite the reaction ability during battle with the highest priority reaction ability.

Stacking isn't perfect, like for example I was shooting Ramza (had a bow equipped) with a gun from higher altitude and HP restore wouldn't activate because Counter activated yet couldn't be used because of height difference.

Well anyway here's an example:

40 Brave
Blade Grasp
Hamedo
Counter
Counter Flood

let's say we're being attacked in close range, and every ability can react.
40% Blade Grasp; 60% left
24% Hamedo; 36% left
14,4% Counter; 21,6% left
8,64% Counter Flood; 12,96% left
12,96% No Reaction

Now let's say a black chawcawbaw is trying to shoot chawcaw balls right next to you in your face.
Null Blade Grasp; 100% left
Null Hamedo; 100% left
40% Counter; 60% left
24% Counter Flood; 36% left
36% No Reaction

There, hope you got it; I ain't explaining again!
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The Damned

November 09, 2008, 12:21:31 am #1 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by The Damned
*coughs and waits for Zodiac to give him credit for bringing it up over in PMs after playtesting it*

 :(

Didn't know that about the reactive Reaction abilities since I was trying it with the passive Reaction abilities such as Finger Guard, Arrow Guard, Weapon Guard, and Abandon.

(I did figure that Counter Magic and Counter should stack since they don't have similar triggers at all either, but I didn't get around to testing it.)

Neato.
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

Archael

November 09, 2008, 12:27:55 am #2 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Archael
Chawcaw huh?

Learn something new every day

Erm..

Xifanie

November 09, 2008, 01:02:41 am #3 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Xifanie
I must say that it's because of your testing I decided to check myself. Now who said they can't stack at first, that I can't recall. I never tested it before and I assumed they couldn't stack based on someone else who wasn't me! >< I'm ashamed
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<R999> My target market is not FFT mod players
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The Damned

November 09, 2008, 02:08:07 pm #4 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by The Damned
Well, Skip Sandwich was the one that brought up to the point where I was interested enough to test out myself sooner rather than later since I had thought about giving a few monsters in my patch multiple reactions.

I don't know who told him, though.

Still, you tested it out for the Reactions that have similar triggers and the percentage can certainly come in handy....
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

philsov

November 09, 2008, 02:10:49 pm #5 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by philsov
by "highest priority" do you mean innate 4 will trump innate 1 (e.g.), or is it an order within the reactions themselves?

And does this render the assigned reaction useless?
Just another rebel plotting rebellion.

BeoulveBlack

November 10, 2008, 10:38:23 am #6 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by BeoulveBlack
so basically you're saying that... i can use more than one reaction ability?

The Damned

November 10, 2008, 03:09:59 pm #7 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by The Damned
Quote from: "BeoulveBlack"so basically you're saying that... i can use more than one reaction ability?

Yes, you can, as long they are there Innately (via FFTPatcher).

As with regards to having only one Innate one and then an actual equipped, I'll try and test out later today. I just need to think up abilities for my other Tier 2 class.

(I think it gets overidden, though, Philsov. It might just be overridden in the way that Zodiac showed, though, so I'll try to test with things that have similar triggers.)
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

Xifanie

November 10, 2008, 05:07:41 pm #8 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Xifanie
Quote from: "philsov"by "highest priority" do you mean innate 4 will trump innate 1 (e.g.), or is it an order within the reactions themselves?

And does this render the assigned reaction useless?
Only one reaction ability can trigger. Since it will try to activate innate 4 before innate 1, it has more chance to activate compared to the latter.

As soon as a reaction ability is set in the innates/support/movement slot, the reaction slot will be overriden.
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<R999> My target market is not FFT mod players
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DarthPaul

November 10, 2008, 06:10:36 pm #9 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by darthpaul
Would it be possible to hack the game into having a whole list of innates reactions go off at once or is the game engine just not capable of that?
Oh pitiful shadow lost in the darkness, bringing torment and pain to others. Oh damned soul wallowing in your sin, perhaps...it is time to die

The Damned

November 11, 2008, 10:33:41 pm #10 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by The Damned
I don't think any amount of hacking could make that possible, especially since some Reactions with the same triggers are in direct conflict with each other, like Counter and Hamedo. It seems like it would crash the game big time, but that's just a guess.

Anyway, I did some testing just to confirm that Innate Reactions override any you try to equip. They seem to, but I think my problem is that I have Innate Weapon Guard on everyone (which I know have to undo, ugh  :x ) and Weapon Guard is ALWAYS active, so.... I guess I could test it out with like Innate Counter on most people, but since the game seems to geniunely unequip your Reaction, I doubt it will work and I have a lot of other things to do right now.

Oh, and trying to change them to Supports didn't work either like I thought.

Oh well. At least monsters can have multiple reactions without "problems". (For the record, the only problem with multiple reactions for humans is when you try to have a different Reaction.)
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

DarthPaul

November 12, 2008, 11:19:10 am #11 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by darthpaul
Well thats kind of what i mean i was wondering about combining things like weapon guard and counter tackle.  After analysis that combination is pretty much hamedo so it already exists.
Oh pitiful shadow lost in the darkness, bringing torment and pain to others. Oh damned soul wallowing in your sin, perhaps...it is time to die

philsov

September 24, 2009, 06:38:40 pm #12 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by philsov
bump@
Just another rebel plotting rebellion.

MiKeMiTchi

September 24, 2009, 07:11:49 pm #13 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by MiKeMiTchi
Never knew this was possible. :)
Jot5 GFX Designer :: Spriter :: Mitchi

Kaijyuu

September 24, 2009, 09:52:32 pm #14 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Kaijyuu
Wait, is innate 4 before or after the one you can assign in-game?


Will make for some fun class innates if the one you choose has highest priority. Otherwise... meh.
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Vanya

September 24, 2009, 10:09:47 pm #15 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Vanya
All innate reactions cancel the set one.
In theory, this can also be taken advantage of to give units wit ??? stats an extra support or movement ability.
Just set a movement or support ability in their reaction slot, then set their reaction(s) in the innate slots.
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¯\(°_0)/¯

Wasabi

September 24, 2009, 10:13:07 pm #16 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Wasabi
It's before. In fact, from what Zodiac mentioned above, I believe the in-game reaction slot will be overriden by the innates, rendering it useless.

Xifanie

September 24, 2009, 10:16:54 pm #17 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Xifanie
From my current knowledge this would be cause by the monster override, like to show Counter as reaction ability in the monster status screens. It shouldn't be too hard to make an asm hack that cancels this. I doubt anyone cares for this anyway.
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<R999> My target market is not FFT mod players
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R999

March 14, 2010, 02:55:12 pm #18 Last Edit: March 14, 2010, 04:51:12 pm by R999
Thanks for this post. I wasn't able to find it... was probably searching in the Help section :(

Based on your results, it seems that those Brave-triggered Reactions only one can occur at a point in time, and if it does not proc, the lower priority ones will fire off after (probability being Brave* remaining proc chance%). But I wonder if the other ones would go off as well, but only one animation being shown?

For example, if I have these innates in this priority order

Brave 100
innate4: Faith Up
innate3: MA Save
innate2: PA Save
innate1: SP Save

This would mean Faith Up proc 100% of the time, the rest never. But I am curious if anyone was able to test this and made sure that no MA/PA/SP are gained in the status screen, even though the reaction animation won't be shown explicitly.


Finally by overriding the reaction slot with an innate reaction, do you mean by completely disregarding the reaction in the reaction slot, rather than having it being a lower priority reaction?

For example,

Brave 100
innate4: Counter Magic
reaction slot: Blade Grasp

The character is being hit by a physical normal attack. Will Blade Grasp ever trigger?


I will go test these two scenarios if it hasn't already been done. Thanks in advance.

Xifanie

Don't know, during my tests the reaction ability seemed to be crushed, yet in S3 we saw a Female Ninja with Weapon Guard + Speed Save. Weapon Guard became another Speed Save but it was still active.
Might work for passive reaction abilities (weapon guard/abandon) or all of them; if I didn't push my testing far enough.
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Anything is possible as long as it is within the hardware's limits. (ie. disc space, RAM, Video RAM, processor, etc.)
<R999> My target market is not FFT mod players
<Raijinili> remember that? it was awful