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Chapter 2 Progress Log

Started by Elric, August 20, 2013, 06:52:12 pm

Hyraldelita

an harder version of jot5 , would be a suicde version, Man if you can go through chapter 1 without any game over, and without using quick save even once, please show me, but it has to be a one video not mounted with different scene, because otherwise it would be too easy to mount it in a way that show you never die..

If you can do that i'll be next to you saying i want a harder version..  But i think it's just impossible to do , because the game it's already very hard, without the use of quick save reload.

Twinees

  • Modding version: PSX

Elric

He wasn't suggesting anything, he was literally asking if the Developers Edition was still going to be a thing, since Raven said it was and it garnered interest in several people lol
  • Modding version: PSX
<@Angel> Teach a man to fish and he'll open up a fishery to compete against yours.


Journey of the Five Youtube ChannelThe Lion War Current Status
  
Jot5 Leader :: Eventer :: OtherTLW Leader :: Eventer :: Other

Guru

Quote from: nyzer on December 05, 2016, 04:59:14 pm
Well, if you really hate yourself that much we could do something like increase the amount of JP required to learn skills and to get Job Levels. 600 JP to learn Potion it is! And job level 3 enemy Knights will have fully Mastered their jobs.

To help you figure out whether you're playing the "oh god why" version, we'll replace Snake with a poorly sprited Raiden.

But no, seriously, I can't imagine there being too much of a demand for a harder version. IMO, if you want a harder playthrough, you'd probably be better off with a self-imposed challenge of some kind, like never changing out of your base jobs.


Now you've done it, I am going to create the "oh god why" version. Instead of JUST replacing snake though, I am going to replace the entire team ;). Except I might insert one Elric sprite to travel with this merry band of Raidens lol. It'll be like the family guy robin williams episode  :mrgreen:
( This is a joke btw lol I feel I need to clarify that before I get white knighted )

Nah really though Elric nailed it, I wasn't suggesting anything at all.

I would personally love a harder version ( not to replace the original version, since I would still probably play the original first ). I just don't enjoy the "no X challenges". To me they are artificial difficulty that people create because they have become so bored with a game they have played dozens of times, that they need to cripple themselves for a challenge. So 600 jp for potion would not be a difficulty I would even play.

I more like the difficulty where the only way to win is to take advantage of every available resource, you are forced to create a unique strategy for every situation, and you end up dying several times before that happens. JOT5 encourages these concepts, but it is also designed to be forgiving because most people are not like me. Most ppl don't enjoy dying and having to struggle with every battle. Everyone has their own way play styles and preferences, and it is designed to be a sort of middle ground. Which I completely understand and I have never once suggested that it be changed. Simply that if there was a suicide version of the game, I would definitely play and enjoy it.

I do like that name though, and I suggest if a hard mode ever is released that it should be named suicide version  ;)

Just to clear this up (again), I never once said JOT5 was easy, and who cares even if I did think it was easy. That's my opinion and you are welcome to disagree with it, but no lol I am not going to make a video just to "prove" to you that I never died once. Especially since we've had this exact conversation multipe times, and have already said that I died multiple times during my first playthrough. Most, if not all of my deaths were carelessness or because I was unprepared, like stupidly changing everyone to a new class and etc. The point is I enjoy dying, well not so much the dying part more the fact that the enemy was able to beat me, and I enjoy battles that are absolute hell. Most people probably don't.

Xifanie

Quote from: Guru on December 06, 2016, 04:30:52 pm
To me they are artificial difficulty that people create because they have become so bored with a game they have played dozens of times, that they need to cripple themselves for a challenge.

Do you realize this is the reason I created FFHacktics? I was getting seriously annoyed at veteran FFT players bragging about completing X/Y/Z SCC/SSCCs... I don't see what's fun about restricting yourself, and the more you restrict yourself, the more it becomes a RNG-based playthrough.

I can't say I'm a fan of artificial difficulty either. Asking players for a very specific setup that they have to develop through the game or grind for is a big load of shit. Most people who have been several years on FFH will know what I'm talking about. As far as real, proper difficulty is concerned, I'm fine with it, but I personally don't like to play on hard settings. All I want is a casual playthrough, ideally where I struggle to win, and DO win, but barely (on my first try). This is what gives me the greatest level of satisfaction. If it's too easy, it bores me, if it's too hard and I lose, it's frustrating.

I will respect anyone's preference for harder versions (I will ask that others respect my preferences too; "omg u dont play on wtfhard ur not a real gamer"), which big video games tend to do right, while nearly every modder fail horribly at. But as someone working on JotF, I'll make sure that no version is released with artificial difficulty, even if I don't personally care about a hard mode. I'm not saying anyone on the team wanted an artificial difficulty version, I'm just saying it won't happen. :p
  • Modding version: PSX
Anything is possible as long as it is within the hardware's limits. (ie. disc space, RAM, Video RAM, processor, etc.)
<R999> My target market is not FFT mod players
<Raijinili> remember that? it was awful

Nyzer

QuoteNow you've done it, I am going to create the "oh god why" version. Instead of JUST replacing snake though, I am going to replace the entire team ;).


If you're gonna do that, I recommend replacing Ramza with Luso, Link with his CD-i version, Dante with his DMC version, Cloud with his KH1 version, and Alma with Algus.
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
  • Discord username: Nyzer

Xifanie

Quote from: nyzer on December 06, 2016, 05:03:52 pm
If you're gonna do that, I recommend replacing Ramza with Luso, Link with his CD-i version, Dante with his DMC version, Cloud with his KH1 version, and Alma with Algus.

...I hate you.
  • Modding version: PSX
Anything is possible as long as it is within the hardware's limits. (ie. disc space, RAM, Video RAM, processor, etc.)
<R999> My target market is not FFT mod players
<Raijinili> remember that? it was awful

Nyzer

Excellent, I'm already getting the proper response for the "oh god why" version and it's not even anything but an idea yet. Amazing progress!
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
  • Discord username: Nyzer

KingUrameshi

Quote from: Guru on December 06, 2016, 04:30:52 pm
I more like the difficulty where the only way to win is to take advantage of every available resource, you are forced to create a unique strategy for every situation, and you end up dying several times before that happens.


So your one of those sado-masochist types eh? I'm checking your closet for whips and chains. ;)

Cereal though I don't see the appeal of the insanely derpy mods that are out there. It's like Xif said they become little more than RNG battles wherein a little bad luck ruins an other wise flawless game plan. I prefer a more balanced but hard approach which Jot5 seems to provide from what I have played with the original chapter 1 release. I had stayed mostly to the base jobs which made the game a bit harder from the get go but I had a lot of fun with it despite avoiding some of the harder random battles (TURTLES).

Jot5's greatest strength will be showcased with balanced gameplay more than the appeal of the five main characters.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
You have allies... Friends that would risk their lives, and I am one of them.

Elric

Quote from: nyzer on December 06, 2016, 05:03:52 pm
If you're gonna do that, I recommend replacing Ramza with Luso, Link with his CD-i version, Dante with his DMC version, Cloud with his KH1 version, and Alma with Algus.


Dante -is- his DMC version, I believe you meant his DmC version, you big dummy :P
  • Modding version: PSX
<@Angel> Teach a man to fish and he'll open up a fishery to compete against yours.


Journey of the Five Youtube ChannelThe Lion War Current Status
  
Jot5 Leader :: Eventer :: OtherTLW Leader :: Eventer :: Other

Elric

Quote from: Hyraldelita on December 06, 2016, 06:21:58 am
an harder version of jot5 , would be a suicde version, Man if you can go through chapter 1 without any game over, and without using quick save even once, please show me, but it has to be a one video not mounted with different scene, because otherwise it would be too easy to mount it in a way that show you never die..

If you can do that i'll be next to you saying i want a harder version..  But i think it's just impossible to do , because the game it's already very hard, without the use of quick save reload.


I was the first (maybe second) person to beat Jot5 Ch1 back in Beta, I only died one time and that was on chicken durbs. and before you say "but you made it! aba daba bruha!!" I had nothing to do with the battle mechanics or jobs back then.

Come at me bro!
  • Modding version: PSX
<@Angel> Teach a man to fish and he'll open up a fishery to compete against yours.


Journey of the Five Youtube ChannelThe Lion War Current Status
  
Jot5 Leader :: Eventer :: OtherTLW Leader :: Eventer :: Other

Pandemoniu

Quote from: nyzer on December 06, 2016, 05:03:52 pm
If you're gonna do that, I recommend replacing Ramza with Luso, Link with his CD-i version, Dante with his DMC version, Cloud with his KH1 version, and Alma with Algus.


But I actually like Luso. :(

Raiden's alright to, in my opinion.

Nyzer

Really? I hate him. Not as a character or anything, but because he's a cookie-cutter protagonist who farts around the entire time and has no character development. He's the dollar store version of Marche.

He would have been fine as a side character, but as a protagonist? Awful choice.
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
  • Discord username: Nyzer

Angel

Luso is a vapid pointless character beyond the level of even Vaan who was painfully overdesigned and overused. His inclusion in WotL was nothing short of insulting and broken.

Raiden was just a cruel bait and switch prank. I don't hate him, but he sure was a mean joke.
  • Modding version: PSX
* Angel should quit being a lazy bitch
<@Elric> I agree to that as well

nyanyame nyanyajuu nyanyado no nyarabide nyakunyaku inyanyaku nyanyahan nyanyadai nyannyaku nyarabete nyaganyagame
At the end of the day, are we not all trapped inside lemons?

Hyraldelita

Man why... why replace Alma with Algus? i'm not gonna read any off your post anymore, i'm deeply offended XD

ChaosStar0

Quote from: Angel on December 07, 2016, 11:10:32 am
Luso is a vapid pointless character beyond the level of even Vaan who was painfully overdesigned and overused. His inclusion in WotL was nothing short of insulting and broken.

Raiden was just a cruel bait and switch prank. I don't hate him, but he sure was a mean joke.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: I don't like it when people insult Vaan. The whole point of him is that he's a viewpoint character, FFXII is Ashe's story but we experience it from Vaan's point of view. I also ship Vaan and Ashe.

silentkaster

Quote from: nyzer on December 06, 2016, 05:03:52 pm
If you're gonna do that, I recommend replacing Ramza with Luso, Link with his CD-i version, Dante with his DMC version, Cloud with his KH1 version, and Alma with Algus.


If this happens, two things need to happen for Link.

1. The Book of Koredai must become a weapon for Link and proc 100% death against all enemies including bosses.
2. Zelda needs to appear to kill someone and when they say their last words, she needs to say, "Good."
You've stepped in puddles less shallow than me.

Nyzer

Quote from: ChaosStar0 on December 07, 2016, 04:39:36 pm
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: I don't like it when people insult Vaan. The whole point of him is that he's a viewpoint character, FFXII is Ashe's story but we experience it from Vaan's point of view. I also ship Vaan and Ashe.


I'm not familiar with FFXII, but since this is being said in comparison to Luso, and Luso is the viewpoint character of FFTA2, I'll talk about that for a sec.

Using a character who isn't the main protagonist as the main viewpoint character is a risky move. It can work out somewhat well if they're a close confidant and constant companion of the real protagonist, allowing the audience to still see all the main events as they unfold, featuring the important characters those events revolve around.

But then you have to ask yourself - why is that character the viewpoint character, instead of one of those main characters?

In TA2, Luso is the viewpoint character, despite Adelle and Cid clearly being superior choices for that role. Both of them have closer ties to the main antagonist than Luso. Luso just happens to have a similar item to the antagonist. Adelle and Cid also undergo some character development, while Luso does not. Luso sort of has an impact on the plot in that he is opposed to the antagonist, but in no more than a "you're a bad guy, I'm a good guy and I'll stop your evil plans!" capacity.

I know why Luso is the main character as opposed to them - he's supposed to be filling in the role that Marche did in TA1, the mundane-Earth-born human transported to a land of swords and sorcery. It's supposed to make him a little more relatable to the mundane-Earth-born audience.

But not only do they fail to give him any character development or make him feel like he's driving the story in any way as opposed to his party members, but they also fail at making him the successor to the FFTA Earth-born characters. There are almost no references to TA1 throughout the entire story up until the last scene before the credits, and it's just an "oh yeah I guess that happened once" moment. They could have delved into the history of the grimoires, had Luso periodically unlock Mewt Randall's previous journal entries detailing TA1 and the visits to Ivalice that followed, had Luso be one of the TA1 cast's kids or younger cousins or something... like, anything that tied him to the story in a relevant way and gave him an actual point to being there.

Instead, he's just some random kid that pops in and farts around Ivalice for a while, helping out some good guys and beating up some bad guys until he goes home. He's on the fringe of everyone else's actual interesting storyline, but never does anything other than offer some support to those characters.

If you want an example of how to do this sort of viewpoint character properly, Lloyd Irving from Tales of Symphonia is where you want to look. He does grow into the main character role after the visit to the Tower of Salvation, but before that he's just the guy supporting the Chosen One. Despite that, he has a huge impact on the storyline right out of the gate, including character and plot developments that don't directly involve the Chosen One, even before he sets off on the main quest. Hell, he's initially so unimportant to her journey that he's actually left behind and has to go chase her down on the road.
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
  • Discord username: Nyzer

Bonesy

my personal ideal of balanced revolves around not penalizing people who want to overlevel like myself lol
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
  • Discord username: Bonesy#9386

Angel

Quote from: ChaosStar0 on December 07, 2016, 04:39:36 pm
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: I don't like it when people insult Vaan. The whole point of him is that he's a viewpoint character, FFXII is Ashe's story but we experience it from Vaan's point of view.

If you can remove a character from a story and have it affect nothing, that character should absolutely not be a focal point. I'm not insulting Vaan, I'm saying he shouldn't be there. Luso's the one I'm insulting.

Besides, Balthier is the leading man.

QuoteI also ship Vaan and Ashe.

That... is just wrong. On many levels. But whatever floats your boat.
  • Modding version: PSX
* Angel should quit being a lazy bitch
<@Elric> I agree to that as well

nyanyame nyanyajuu nyanyado no nyarabide nyakunyaku inyanyaku nyanyahan nyanyadai nyannyaku nyarabete nyaganyagame
At the end of the day, are we not all trapped inside lemons?