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Chapter 2 Progress Log

Started by Elric, August 20, 2013, 06:52:12 pm

Elric

Fairy was moved to someone else. Phoenix is the only revive summon on the summoner :P
  • Modding version: PSX
<@Angel> Teach a man to fish and he'll open up a fishery to compete against yours.


Journey of the Five Youtube ChannelThe Lion War Current Status
  
Jot5 Leader :: Eventer :: OtherTLW Leader :: Eventer :: Other

DaTruthDT

I'm looking forward to the FF7 remake, Kingdom Hearts 3, and FF15.

But none of that compares to this project here. The second JOT5 is released I will forget how to eat and sleep. All that will matter is JOT5.

Elric

May 19, 2016, 11:18:56 am #262 Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 11:26:38 am by Elric
Quote from: DaTruthDT on May 19, 2016, 08:57:14 am
I'm looking forward to the FF7 remake, Kingdom Hearts 3, and FF15.

But none of that compares to this project here. The second JOT5 is released I will forget how to eat and sleep. All that will matter is JOT5.


Goddammit, I freakin' love this guy! Your LP has brought us more fans and downloads than anything else has by far and it is very appreciated :D

I still enjoy watching it even now, for motivation as well as to see how much some of my scenes have improved, believe it or not, I used your LP to find the fixes I needed to make to events while I was doing the revamp of all the Ch1 scenes, haha
  • Modding version: PSX
<@Angel> Teach a man to fish and he'll open up a fishery to compete against yours.


Journey of the Five Youtube ChannelThe Lion War Current Status
  
Jot5 Leader :: Eventer :: OtherTLW Leader :: Eventer :: Other

Plan C

Yea, DT's LP's were great to watch and actually opened my eyes to the project going on here, was a marvel to see firsthand. Beyond excited to finally get to play the re-release and chapter 2. I have been trying to forward him any interesting news i see here through his YouTube channel if he hasn't been noticing it his self already.

Guru

QuoteFairy was moved to someone else. Phoenix is the only revive summon on the summoner :P


Figures lol. Interesting to hear someone else has fairy....

BTW DT's LPs are what brought me here too. Thanks man!!

RJ Cid

So I got a (re)programming question. Is it possible, much much later in the game, to create special items that would allow for infinite items? Each separately obtained of course. I know it sounds OP, especially coming from a guy who specifically asked for them to be expensive and sparse, but later in the game it's not about the money but more about the hassle of stopping into a shop here and there to restock them. Can something like that be programmed into a mod? (would work well for Draw Out too).

On that note, can there be a few rare items that are extremely expensive? Again, later on in the game, but when that is added to any game in general, it means collecting money never becomes meaningless after a certain point.

On a different note, I think it would be bad-ass if Rad, Alicia, and Labia Lavian were made available in CH 1 as three higher stat generics. It would just be cool to keep them as part of the story. Maybe get them at the beginning of CH 2 when Agrias (hopefully) joins the party. You gotta have at least a couple generics, so why not three we already know?

The icing on that cake would be if Agrias had more available abilities for her Holy Knight class. Possibly modify Orlandu's skill set for her without making her too OP? You could take two or three of the old special classes from vanilla and lump them into her to save on space. Plus it would be awesome to see that she's grown even stronger. If that's too much, I'll just settle for her getting the Special Beam Cannon... because life is a series of compromises...

Nyzer

QuoteSo I got a (re)programming question. Is it possible, much much later in the game, to create special items that would allow for infinite items? Each separately obtained of course. I know it sounds OP, especially coming from a guy who specifically asked for them to be expensive and sparse, but later in the game it's not about the money but more about the hassle of stopping into a shop here and there to restock them. Can something like that be programmed into a mod? (would work well for Draw Out too).

On that note, can there be a few rare items that are extremely expensive? Again, later on in the game, but when that is added to any game in general, it means collecting money never becomes meaningless after a certain point.


Those two points are just the teensiest bit contradictory.

Also, I'm 99% sure that infinite item setup would never happen. Lack of interest/time to make a mod like that aside, Potions and Ethers may lose out a bit on usefulness as time wears on, but stuff like the Sapling and the Hero Drink would basically never not be useful. They're instant cast and zero combat cost. Having to stock them is the tradeoff for that. Just buy 99 at once, when you're rolling in cash - restocking will hardly be a problem at that point.

I'm not sure about shop progression, but I can assure you synthesis is going to be a major part of the endgame. It's like the Midlight's Deep of item acquisition, except without kicking you in the groin with bad RNG due to the developers vainly trying to "balance" low Br.

QuoteOn a different note, I think it would be bad-ass if Rad, Alicia, and Lavian were made available in CH 1 as three higher stat generics. It would just be cool to keep them as part of the story. Maybe get them at the beginning of CH 2 when Agrias (hopefully) joins the party. You gotta have at least a couple generics, so why not three we already know?


It's certainly a possibility. On the other hand, maybe we'll be so tight on character space that all four of them get killed off to make room for Raiden, Elric's favorite video game character. ;)

QuoteThe icing on that cake would be if Agrias had more available abilities for her Holy Knight class. Possibly modify Orlandu's skill set for her without making her too OP? You could take two or three of the old special classes from vanilla and lump them into her to save on space. Plus it would be awesome to see that she's grown even stronger. If that's too much, I'll just settle for her getting the Special Beam Cannon... because life is a series of compromises...


Uh, what? Agrias has cheap, ranged, instant cast, AoE abilities that deal weapon damage+. And can inflict status effects. What more could she possibly get that wouldn't make her OP? The only reason she isn't that great in the release version is because she's a Guest, and you can get around some of her worst AI traits with some good Job planning. Regenerator and Invigorate, for example, would stop her obsession with spending an entire fight in the corner at Critical or prioritizing Phoenix Down over swordskilling. I, personally, gave her Full-Life.
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
  • Discord username: Nyzer

Elric

Quote from: RJ Cid on May 25, 2016, 03:11:45 pm
So I got a (re)programming question. Is it possible, much much later in the game, to create special items that would allow for infinite items? Each separately obtained of course. I know it sounds OP, especially coming from a guy who specifically asked for them to be expensive and sparse, but later in the game it's not about the money but more about the hassle of stopping into a shop here and there to restock them. Can something like that be programmed into a mod? (would work well for Draw Out too).

Nah, all the item spots are already filled, figured nyzer would've mentioned this, but yeah, even if they weren't I doubt I'd do something like that. Seems pretty cheap and OP when you consider that you can just make your own items at the farm if you are that hard up, plus by late game, most items -should- ne replaced by skills/spells if you are doing it right :P

Quote
On that note, can there be a few rare items that are extremely expensive? Again, later on in the game, but when that is added to any game in general, it means collecting money never becomes meaningless after a certain point.

Don't the prices of items in RPG always get pretty expensive by end game? Why wouldn't this already be a thing without having to be said? Anyway, most end game items require synth, so they are expensive for a different reason.

Quote
On a different note, I think it would be bad-ass if Rad, Alicia, and Lavian were made available in CH 1 as three higher stat generics. It would just be cool to keep them as part of the story. Maybe get them at the beginning of CH 2 when Agrias (hopefully) joins the party. You gotta have at least a couple generics, so why not three we already know?

In case you haven't played Jot5 and noticed, Rad, Lavian and Alicia are story characters, they play an integral part of the story, how would they do that if they joined in Ch1 and weren't with Alma? O_o. Sorry, but this one just makes no sense to me. Ch2 is already done story wise and has been for quite a while (as is the rest of the game when it comes to who joined when) and if they join, it will be when the time is right and the story makes sense to do so, and not a moment before that :P

Quote
The icing on that cake would be if Agrias had more available abilities for her Holy Knight class. Possibly modify Orlandu's skill set for her without making her too OP? You could take two or three of the old special classes from vanilla and lump them into her to save on space. Plus it would be awesome to see that she's grown even stronger. If that's too much, I'll just settle for her getting the Special Beam Cannon... because life is a series of compromises...

She is OP enough with the skills she has currently and could easily stand up to any of the main characters. All ability slots are already done and I don't think she will be getting any additions for when/if she joins.
  • Modding version: PSX
<@Angel> Teach a man to fish and he'll open up a fishery to compete against yours.


Journey of the Five Youtube ChannelThe Lion War Current Status
  
Jot5 Leader :: Eventer :: OtherTLW Leader :: Eventer :: Other

Guru

QuoteNah, all the item spots are already filled, figured nyzer would've mentioned this, but yeah, even if they weren't I doubt I'd do something like that. Seems pretty cheap and OP when you consider that you can just make your own items at the farm if you are that hard up, plus by late game, most items -should- ne replaced by skills/spells if you are doing it right :P


Well there is a couple item based skill sets that should be feasible end game. I plan on giving cloud draw out, to match his MA based soldier skillset, and the new chemist items should still be pretty OP end game. But I do agree there has to be some sort of trade off for skills like draw out and throw.

I'm glad you brought up Agrias though  :mrgreen: She is 100% my favorite character, even as a guest I use her quite a bit. Now her skill set is very OP and she is a pretty rounded character but she does tend to fall behind especially by end game. I would love to see her PA growth rate in her base class be a little better. Maybe 45ish instead of 50, I mean she is a knight after all. It's hard for me to even suggest something like that with JOT5, because you guys have done such a huge change to growth systems (HUGE improvement BTW), and I have yet to try out the new jp system, plus everybody potentially takes a hit while learning their unique abilities. On top of that it's been several months since I played JOT5, BUT just to give you a idea of where I'm coming from...

I leveled Agrias(level 63) in her base class enough to learn her first 3 skills, then knight/dragoon/geomancer trying to optimize her PA, and at level 63 she only has 11 PA(as a dragoon). Now Snake(as a ranger) who is level 66, I leveled as base/rogue/ranger, and has the same exact PA as Agrias(11 PA). Dante and ramza FAR exceeds her PA, even cloud at 54 has 13 PA as a soldier( I just leveled cloud in his base for now since I already knew what kinda build I wanted for him ) and Link, leveled only as a magic user, has 11 as level 69 summoner

I'm really tired so sorry if there some flaws or missing info in there. I'd be more than happy to do some more detailed testing if needed.


Elric

I'll look into a few things like that. Nyzer has been working his ass off implementing the remaining abilities for the rest of the game, as well as setting up all the skillsets, jobs, growth etc. We will start testing abilities and such sometime tonight or tomorrow.

There were a few other things I wanted to look into as well, such as Link being the holder of the triforce of courage but not having the Brave to match that. However, we will see.

Things are progressing quite well. The map we needed for the farm is now done, as well as the spell quotes as well as adding proper delays and {Close} commands to all of them to make them close on their own, much like the Japanese version of the game rather than the American version.

More info. soon.
  • Modding version: PSX
<@Angel> Teach a man to fish and he'll open up a fishery to compete against yours.


Journey of the Five Youtube ChannelThe Lion War Current Status
  
Jot5 Leader :: Eventer :: OtherTLW Leader :: Eventer :: Other

Elric

Also wanted to give you guys a little preview of a couple of the new sprites for the re-release. These are both done, but for obvious reasons I'm not posting the sheets right now. Credits to Twinees for the Lamia and Lijj for the Male Wizard. There will be several other new sprites in the re-release, but I'm not going to spoil any more than these ;)

  • Modding version: PSX
<@Angel> Teach a man to fish and he'll open up a fishery to compete against yours.


Journey of the Five Youtube ChannelThe Lion War Current Status
  
Jot5 Leader :: Eventer :: OtherTLW Leader :: Eventer :: Other

KingUrameshi

I would like to see Agrias stronger in the Jot5 also. I always felt she was lacking towards the end in vanilla. I was using Orlandu and Beowulf but she would seem underwhelming when compared to the two generics that I had been training. I always wanted her holy sword to be stronger.

The way I used to play through vanilla FFT was to train one generic so they would master Chemist and the other generic master Thief and then I would change them to something that complements the character. Agrias would be lacking after chapter 4 - late chapter 4 due to her limited move range in her base class and the restrictions of being Holy Knight for holy sword. If her sword skill were stronger I might have more of a motive to use her over the 5 or over another generic in vanilla.

Wizards look bad ass, I always liked the generic sprites from vanilla for wizard.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
You have allies... Friends that would risk their lives, and I am one of them.

Nyzer

May 28, 2016, 02:38:29 pm #272 Last Edit: May 28, 2016, 03:09:34 pm by nyzer
QuoteI would love to see her PA growth rate in her base class be a little better. Maybe 45ish instead of 50, I mean she is a knight after all.


About that...



HP growth is around the middle of the pack - slightly below the average. She's got the best HP multiplier. The best MP growth. The best MP multiplier. Higher SP growth than two of the Five. SP multiplier tied with everyone but Snake. She's got the best PA growth along with three of the Five. PA multiplier to tie with the three of the rest. MA growth equal to or better than everyone but Link. And a better MA multiplier than Snake. Her base Evasion chance is higher than everyone except Snake. Move and Jump are towards the bottom with Cloud, but with a more far-reaching skillset than his, not counting Meteorain.

Her total growth stats are right around the middle of the pack, marking her as generally well-balanced compared to the rest of the Five. Her total multipliers are tied with Link in first place.

I highlighted Cloud and Link first because she's got the most in common with their stats.

None of this is my work - this is how Raven left it, as far as I can tell. He designed Agrias to match the rest of the Five, which is also something (I hope) I've achieved with all the new characters in Ch. 2 onward - joining or not.

You talk about the characters having a bit of a discrepancy with their PA later on, but there's also the male vs female base stat differences, where males have higher PA and females have higher MA. If raw PA matters to you that much, rush her to Dancer, the job with higher base PA growth than any generic class or any joining male Job save one (who isn't in Ch. 1). You won't even have to take an Equip skill to keep using her Holy Sword abilities.

Honestly, the only reason she feels lacking in Ch. 1 is because of her Guest AI status. And you can counter that if you make sure to level her up a bit and pick up suitable abilities - by which I mean Priest. (Something her high Fa and female stats are really good for.)
Regenerator will stop her from getting put in a corner or running out of MP for Holy Sword. Full-Life will cause her to become one of your best rezzers, because the AI prioritizes that even over finishing enemies off. Give her Regen for the same reasons as Regenerator, except in this case, it'd allow her to throw out one of the game's best buffs while unable to reach an enemy - often meaning she'll use it as the fight starts, again helping counter the MP drain of her follow-up attacks.

QuoteI always felt she was lacking towards the end in vanilla. I was using Orlandu and Beowulf but she would seem underwhelming when compared to the two generics that I had been training. I always wanted her holy sword to be stronger.


Honestly, it's because Beowulf* and definitely Orlandu were stupidly broken in the player's favor, and because you'd had an entire chapter to raise generics (as you had literally no other option), then, by the time you got Agrias, she was barely fit to take a peek at what Black Mage or Knight had. Personally, though, she was always one of my favorites. Her Holy Sword skills were strong, leaning a bit in favor of being OP what with no MP or CT cost, but she wasn't stupidly broken like other SwordSkillers, and the fact that her abilities only fell into a single niche (AoE damage with a small chance of status) meant you had to move her up to other Jobs to diversify her skills anyway.

*People might not have thought of Beowulf as particularly broken, but when 99% of your enemies fall into the categories of "two-shottable" or "immune to most status effects", Beowulf's stupidly high status effect infliction and Br drain just don't matter as much. Plus, Math Skill. Beowulf might not have been broken compared to the overwhelmingly broken Jobs like Orlandu/Math Skill, but he was sure as hell broken compared to what most other base Jobs brought to the table.
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
  • Discord username: Nyzer

KingUrameshi

Beowulf was way OP especially when you can turn almost anyone into stone. I would normally have a forest of stone(d) people. I always play Orlandu and Beowulf because I like to use them so much. Its like when I play Star Ocean 2 I always get Ashton so I have never had Ernest and Opera on my team. I think Agrias is one of my favorite characters even over Gaffgarion.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
You have allies... Friends that would risk their lives, and I am one of them.

Plan C

the redone sprites look very nice, keep up the good work. Look forward to more updates until release.

Pride

  • Modding version: PSX
Check out my ASM thread. Who doesn't like hax?

Elric

Dammit Pride XD

Quote from: KingUrameshi on May 28, 2016, 09:28:29 pm
I would normally have a forest of stone(d) people.


Sounds like my kind of party!
  • Modding version: PSX
<@Angel> Teach a man to fish and he'll open up a fishery to compete against yours.


Journey of the Five Youtube ChannelThe Lion War Current Status
  
Jot5 Leader :: Eventer :: OtherTLW Leader :: Eventer :: Other

Guru

May 30, 2016, 04:36:23 pm #277 Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 04:42:09 pm by Guru
New sprites look awesome, and I'm glad to hear progress is going well!

If I remember right Beowulf, orlandu, reis and meliadoul were all incredibly broken. Matter a fact everything was broken lol.

Thanks, I really appreciate you guys looking into Agrias, that's right at what I thought it should be at and seems like it should be a pretty balanced growth. That's all she needed in vanilla, she was obviously lacking a bit at 50 PA growth, they even had to give her a special accessory in WOTL. Like I said it was hard for me to suggest anything cuz it has been so long since I did my build testing, I'm not sure why she ended up so low in my game. I might've just leveled her up too high in geomancer or something while I was trying to figure out her build, plus the lower female PA. It's not like an extremely high PA is important with her, but I would've liked it to be just a little higher at the level I had her at. Of course once the gear gets better not like those couple extra points are gonna make too much of a difference.

You got me reconsidering my plans for her though. Love Agrias and I've always had her be a complete offensive character, in both vanilla and JOT5. I was using link as a summoner so I had two characters that could revive, but he had zodiac compatibility issues with 2 of the characters(I think dante and snake?) So maybe I will consider giving her summon as a secondary skillset, depending on her compatibility anyways. Gives me something to think about while waiting for the release at least  ;)

I'm kinda surprised dante has a lower PA growth than snake though. Everything seemed very well balanced on CH1, so not like I have any issues with it, just thought it was a little odd (dante actually ended up being my second most powerful offensive character, after cloud). I'm really looking forward to spears being unlocked so dante can have trickster and jump, and be able to wreck anything on the screen  :mrgreen:

So any hopes that you guys will release growth rates along with the chapters? Even just generics would be really helpful. I was able to get a look at em in CH1 while I was doing builds but you guys are very cryptic and I'm sure you are gonna make it harder to decipher for the upcoming releases.

*Edit* AH actually I got another question, not sure if you will want to answer it or not. I always thought the fury hack was really neat, will it make its way into JOT5 at all?

Elric

May 30, 2016, 04:41:25 pm #278 Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 04:50:50 pm by Elric
Speaking of spears. Thanks to Xif's ARH2, Dragoon will have 3 new abilities you can learn in addition to just having Jump, which was also altered. Jump now has no vertical limit (because you fucking jump offscreen) and the existing jump skills add +1 to your jump range. Making every skill worth getting rather than just getting the highest rank right away. (I may have already mentioned this)

As for being cryptic, I wouldn't expect that to change too much, lol. If more fans updated the fan made jot5 wikia though, it might be easier to find this info. We didn't make a vanilla mod. We made a new game :P developers are rarely the same people who release the guides.

The skills were already all made without the Fury hack in mind, so I don't imagine you will be seeing that
  • Modding version: PSX
<@Angel> Teach a man to fish and he'll open up a fishery to compete against yours.


Journey of the Five Youtube ChannelThe Lion War Current Status
  
Jot5 Leader :: Eventer :: OtherTLW Leader :: Eventer :: Other

Guru

Quote from: Elric on May 30, 2016, 04:41:25 pm
Speaking of spears. Thanks to Xif's ARH2, Dragoon will have 3 new abilities you can learn in addition to just having Jump.

Awesome! Dante is gonna be a beast lol.

Quote from: Elric on May 30, 2016, 04:41:25 pm
As for being cryptic, I wouldn't expect that to change too much, lol. If more fans updated the fan made jot5 wikia though, it might be easier to find this info. We didn't make a vanilla mod. We made a new game :P developers are rarely the same people who release the guides.


Actually I was gonna update the job list in the wikia a while ago and totally forgot about it  :oops: Now as far as the wikia goes, you probably would prefer I don't post stuff like the skills that can only be obtained under special circumstances?