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Collection of ASM used / rejected

Started by philsov, December 12, 2010, 09:19:30 am

RavenOfRazgriz

Quote from: philsov on January 13, 2011, 05:24:36 pm
Skillsets are a dime a dozen and I doesn't afraid of the ARH, but why for the breeding disable?


The whole thing with monsters not being able to access Attack command and stuff is controlled by the hardcoding on their skillsets.  If you force them to use a human's primary skillset and not to carry a monster one, they can access Attack, Defend, and Equip Change like any other AI unit from my limited testing.  You should already know where this is going, but load up 16 skillsets, fill each with all the Chocobo skills, all the Ahirman skills, etc. by breed, force those skillsets to be their primary ones, use ARH to limit skill access by breed and you have something glorious on your hands.  If you do what I'm doing, you suddenly have monsters with up to 7 skillsets sulking around.

No breeding is because I don't know if a hatched monster will know the skills in a human skillset or not on birth, or if they can be taught them.  You can always play around with that if you want.

Eternal

A warning about the knockback hack. When I used it, attacks would knock enemies into walls/mountains. Not sure if you found a fix for that, but it's something you should know.
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
"You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
  • Discord username: eternal248#1817

RavenOfRazgriz

Quote from: Eternal248 on January 13, 2011, 07:48:25 pm
A warning about the knockback hack. When I used it, attacks would knock enemies into walls/mountains. Not sure if you found a fix for that, but it's something you should know.


Are you sure you didn't mess it up?

Also, if memory serves, the one in OrgASM itself is flawed, you need to retrieve it from the post directly to get a working version.

Eternal

Ah, that might be it. I used the OrgASM one.
  • Modding version: PSX & WotL
"You, no less human than we? Ha! Now there's a beastly thought. You've been less than we from the moment your baseborn father fell upon your mother in whatever gutter saw you sired! You've been chattel since you came into the world drenched in common blood!"
  • Discord username: eternal248#1817

The Damned

I finally read through the entirety of this thread or, more accurately, the entirety of responses. I don't think much else needs to be said about the "old fixes" outside of similarly throwing my hat behind the "0 CT for not moving, 20 CT for not acting" change.

Quote from: philsov on January 12, 2011, 10:35:43 am
Newest additions:

Accepted:
Caution now adds Protect instead of Defend
Sunken State now adds Shell instead of Transparent
(Regenerator and Dragon Spirit remaining unchanged)
Speed Save now grants 20 CT on trigger
Throw Item now 3 range


I like all of these, though I am still somewhat suspicious of Speed Save. While it's better overall, I'm guess as it is, won't this still add 20 CT for every time it triggers? It seems like it'd be pretty easy for someone to get pseudo-Quicks if it triggers enough (off of light damage, of course).

Maybe reduce it to 10?

Outside of that, who gets Auto-Protect, Auto-Shell and Flee now?

QuotePossible:
Teleport reduces movement chance by 25%/33% outside of normal range


Not really feeling this one since it's still in favor of that the player since the AI still won't attempt to Teleport outside of its initial normal range.

Actually, wasn't someone working on a hack to perhaps make it so that the AI would at least attempt to do that with Teleport? Maybe with that one this one would be fair (compared to the normal Teleport), but it's still seems pretty iffy.
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

philsov

QuoteIt seems like it'd be pretty easy for someone to get pseudo-Quicks if it triggers enough


True, but it's the "enough" that makes it OK.  Simply put, it costs 80 CT (or 100 CT) to pull off any action.  If everyone had speed save and I have... I don't know... a spin fisting mage with concentrate, hitting all 4 of my units, and all the reactions trigger, at the most it's an AT breakeven.  Honestly if that's the plan the player is far, far better off with crit quick, MA Save, or PA save. 

QuoteOutside of that, who gets Auto-Protect, Auto-Shell and Flee now?


Speaking of which I did some minor RSM shuffling, and Teleport is indeed getting nixed because it's better than Fly in every way possible.  So I'm just keeping fly and teleport is staying outside of the player's grasp.

Let's see... Squire gains flee, Knight get auto-protect, and Priest gets auto-shell under the current scheme.
Just another rebel plotting rebellion.

The Damned

To very briefly play Devil's Advocate, Teleport isn't completely superior to Fly since you still take falling damage with it IIRC, but it's not like that comes up very often. Similarly, in the same token, Fly is superior to Ignore Height in literally every way to point where I've considered getting rid of Fly for players as well. It might be a bit much.

Otherwise, those changes sound fine. I'm guessing Teleport won't even be something that ends up getting used since pretty much every instance of the AI having Teleport has them having Teleport 2 anyway.
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

philsov

January 20, 2011, 11:23:57 pm #27 Last Edit: February 11, 2011, 05:35:46 pm by philsov
Eh, ignore height and fly at least reside on polar opposites of the job blob, and casters are lacking on decent movements in general, so fly is at least sticking with them.  

Also, ghosts will have teleport!  Woooo-ooo-ooo



               
QuoteAbandon               
Weapon Guard               
PA Save               
Auto Potion               
Auto Protect   ini prot            
Damage Split               
Gilgame Heart               
MA Save               
Regenerator   ini regen            
Speed Save               
Brave Up   1 pa            
Counter               
Condemn               
Dragon Spirit               
Auto Shell   ini shell            
Crit Quick               
HP Restore               
Meatbone Slash   10% HP            
MP Restore               
Absorb Used MP               
Arrow Guard               
Catch               
Counter Flood               
Double Magic               
Distribute   Abs: Holy, Dark            
Faith Up   1 ma            
Finger Guard   immune: Talk skill statii            
?Reflect?               
               
*Blade Grasp               
Hamedo               
MP Switch               
               
~               
               
Amplify               
Attack Up               
Concentrate               
Defend               
Def Up               
Equip Armor               
Equip Meleeset               
Equip Change               
Equip Bow               
Equip Gun               
Equip Shield               
Equip Mageset               
Focus               
Gained Exp Up               
Half MP               
Insulate               
Magic Attack Up               
Magic Def Up               
Maintenance               
Martial Arts               
Monster Skill               
Monster Talk               
Noncharge               
Secret Hunt               
Short Charge               
Throw Item               
Train                
Two Hands               
Two Swords               
               
*Gained JP Up               
               
~               
               
Any Ground   Immune: Poison, Cancel Earth            Swampwalk
Any Weather   Str, Cancel Lightning            
Cannot Enter Water               
Flee               
Float               
Fly               
Ignore Height               
-Jump +1   ??            
Jump +2               
Jump +3               
Move +1   Jump +1            
Move +2               
Move in Water   Cancel Water            
Move on Lava   Cancel Fire            
Move Underwater               
Move Find Item               
Move Get Exp               
Move Get JP               
Move HP Up               
Move MP Up               
Walk on Water               
               
*Move +3               
Teleport   

Just another rebel plotting rebellion.