FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread

[CT5Holy]

The problem if we reduce the X, then low MA units suffer even more from using these skills (Steal Heart, Talk Skills). Old formula of MA+X is probably the way to go.

[pokeytax]

Part of the problem is it's easier to get high MA across a range of classes in Arena - you don't have to completely sacrifice HP to get a Samurai with 17 MA.

K+MA*2 for unisex Steal Heart is absurdly broken, I'm still not sure how I dropped three matches running around with Allure.  I hate charm.  I think you should drop it to K+MA and keep K around 35, charming both genders is a huge buff.  Maybe even just make it K. I hate charm.

K+MA*2 for Talk Skill?  Probably pretty strong, but not necessarily broken.  A lot of these skills need a boost. Maybe drop the K on Mimic Daravon, which is the only talk skill that can turn a match around like Steal Heart.

K+MA*2 for faith-based magic was a much needed change.  It's basically K+MA for 70 faith targets, K+0.6*MA for 40 faith targets.  If your MA is cranked to the roof with Magic Attack UP, I don't see anything wrong with a success rate of 75% on the Death spell.  It's not costless to invest in MA gear.

Magic can also be evaded and reacted to, while Talk Skill and Steal Heart are unevadable and unreactable.  That is a serious strength.

If you have to choose one I would go back to K+MA.

[Shade]

ma only shit back to old formula and faith shit not.

[FFMaster]

ma only shit back to old formula and faith shit not.

Not possible with my current knowledge.

[Skip Sandwich]

Steal heart needs to go back to a gendered formula for sure, it is instant, ranged, moderate to high success% depending on optimization.

We could replace Confusion Song with a Charm spell, so we can have our non-gendered charm status, but balanced by CT, MP cost, and vunerability to silence/low faith

[Zaen]

Steal heart needs to go back to a gendered formula for sure, it is instant, ranged, moderate to high success% depending on optimization.

We could replace Confusion Song with a Charm spell, so we can have our non-gendered charm status, but balanced by CT, MP cost, and vunerability to silence/low faith

This, plus it gets rid of the "problem" of stalemates.

[FFMaster]

Reckon the lack of Charm recovering abilities could be affecting this?

Also random side

Hit% for Steal Heart
Arena - MA*2 + 35%
1.3 - MA + 40%

And right now, I am liking Skip's suggestion.

[FFMaster]

What do you guys think of making Steal Heart Speed + 40% chance to hit?

EDIT: What about ways to heal Charm (Esuna, Stigma Magic, Item, maybe a new Paladin Skill?)

[pokeytax]

40 + SP is much better, 35 maybe?  I still think it is too strong as a unisex ability, but since Charm doesn't last forever like in vanilla it's not gamebreaking.  More ways to heal Charm without having to inflict damage might help too - not sure how the AI would react, but worth a try.

A Charm spell is a lot less problematic because of CT/Faith, that's a good idea.

[FFMaster]

Here is the current changelog

Changelog
GENERAL
- Previous bugs fixed

JOBS
- Thief gains a new buyabe reaction: Awareness - 200 JP(front evasion% for all sides)

SKILLS
- Secret Fist is now evadable and is now Hit_(MA*2+50)%
- Steal Heart is now Hit_(Speed+35)%
- Blackmail, Insult and Mimic Daravon X reduced by 10
- Confusion Song replaced with Beguile
- Shuriken is now 6 range
- Katon, Raiton and Suiton are now 6 range and are not evadable

[PX_Timefordeath]

I propose we buff up Poison to 1/4th Max HP Damage a tick. As it is right now, move hp+ nearly cancels it.

[CT5Holy]

Demi per turn? That's ridiculous. Up to 1/6 Max HP seems more reasonable.

[Pride]

I think the damage done by Poison is solid enough, but I wouldn't mind seeing it buffed through ct.

[Skip Sandwich]

IIRC, the hack to buff poison damage changes it to 1/4th Current HP, rather then rather then the current 1/8th max hp.

As for ways to heal Charm status, anything that used to cure/prevent confusion should now cure/prevent charm, since we've removed confusion anyway.

[pokeytax]

While testing Salty Rage I found Abandon + Darkness means 0% chance to hit, even with Concentrate.  That's pretty strong.
Poison could be stronger, but it's a useful drain on resources now.  Move-HP Up can naff off though.
Awareness is nifty, and a useful alternative to Abandon, but strengthens Concentrate further.  Who cares though, it's already a guaranteed equip on most physical teams anyway.

[FFMaster]

Changes to Elemental(still under construction)
ELEMENTAL
Pitfall - Darkness
Water Ball - Frog
Hell Ivy - Slow
Carve Model - Petrify
Local Quake - Don't Move
Kamaitachi - Silence
Demon Fire - Oil
Quicksand - Death Sentence
Sand Storm - Stop
Blizzard - Sleep
Gusty Wind - Don't Act
Lava Ball - Dead


EDIT: I wouldn't trust the %'s for that Darkness hack. Wait until next patch before we discuss Darkness.

[Skip Sandwich]

I like these changes, it puts the power of various elemental attacks a bit more in line with how common those surface types are. One thing though, I see that Demon Fire inflicts Oil status, but I was under the impression that Oil status has not been fixed in Arena, is that incorrect? It would be great if that is the case, since it would be quite a fun status to play around with.

[FFMaster]

Oil is getting implemented next patch, assuming Razele's hack works.

[Zaen]

If I recall correctly, formerdeathcorps fixed the Oil hack in his topic. He also had some other nifty hacks as well. But yeah, he separated the Float from the Oil hack and also separately fixed the Float hack.

[pokeytax]

Dancers and Bards need a buff.  Sick of seeing Singing and Dancing Paladins.  I am guilty too, but a Paladin is a washing machine with legs.  No one wants to see or hear that garbage.  Dancers and Bards should either be reasonable choices to Sing and Dance with, or reasonable choices to actually fight with.

You could buff Harps and Cloth - Cloth is especially weak, let's not even get into the cruel irony of excellent W-EV% on a Performing weapon.  They are actually very cool and clever right now, but right now the balance is "Initial: Protect, Defend" vs. "Equip Armor and Equip Shield innate and 60 HP" which is not a fair contest.  Fairy Harp and Bloody Strings are more like it!  Just, not enough to justify a Bard right now.  

You could buff the classes themselves.  The simplest solution is innate Overwhelm (which might even make them better at Life/Angel/Wiznaibus/Witch Hunt than other classes!) Or you could tinker with growths - because there is no male Dancer, you can set higher growths and balance Dancer against male PA classes, and Bard against female MA classes.  Or you could do more off-the-wall stuff (Bard MPM 150, Dancer C-EV% 45? Two Hand Harps, Two Sword Cloth, or Pole Dancer comedy option).