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Stop Katanas from Breaking

Started by Paheej, January 22, 2010, 02:49:48 am

Pickle Girl Fanboy

Quote from: "Vanya"It's a solution, but it just doesn't feel right for a katana not to have it's own attack power.
Let's not bullshit each other, my "solution" sucks.

I was going to see if changing a weapon's attack power to something greater than 0x80 can change the Draw Out break rate, but for some reason pSX won't let me gameshark ramza 9999 JP in all job classes and I loaned out both my copies of FFT.

So if anyone wants to do it, here's how.

You need:
>A character with Kiyomori learned.
 >This character needs to be a samurai.
>A Kiyomori Katana equipped.
>10 more Kiyomori Katanas in your inventory
>A gameshark, or an emulator.


FIRST TEST
Enter the following code:
30063c14-008f
This sets Kiyomori's attack power to 143, or 0x8f in hex.

Now, enter a battle that won't be hard.

When you get a chance, look at Kiyomori's Weapon Power when it's equipped on your Samurai and write down what it is.

When the battle gets easy, set up your Samurai where he or she can cast Kiyomori without being bothered by the enemy.  Cast it 10 times, and make a mark each time a katana breaks.

What was Kiyomori's equipped weapon power?
Was it 143, 43, 15, or something else?

How many times did Kiyomori break when you used it's corresponding Draw Out skill?
Was it 1 out of 10?  10 out of 10?  No breaks at all?  Something else?

Post your results in this topic.

If you want to do another test, use 0xbf instead of 0x8f, do the exact same thing, record your results, and post them here.

If you want to do one last test, use 0xef instead of 0xbf and follow the instructions above.

Shouldn't take more than 10-20 minutes to do each test.

I doubt that Bit 7 or Bit 6 allow the katana formulae to not break weapons, but you never know until you check.

Vanya

Wouldn't it be easier just to do it with the patcher?
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
¯\(°_0)/¯

Pickle Girl Fanboy

You're right.  I could do this by making Kiyomori cost 0 JP and making Ramza a Samurai at Gariland.  And giving everyone Kiyomori Katanas.

I'm still kinda puzzled that pSX won't let me cheat ramza into a samurai.  I looked up the ram addresses in the gameshark handbook and everything.

Vanya

Wierd. But then again most emulators tend to have their own special bugs and quarks.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
¯\(°_0)/¯

Pickle Girl Fanboy

Complete failure.

Setting a Katana's attack power to 127 or greater makes that Katana break 100% of the time when it's corresponding Draw Out is used.

A Katana's Break rate is: Attack Power/127

Vanya

Interesting. That bit of info would make it easier to find the code that controls the break rate.
All we really have to do is find that code and change it.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
¯\(°_0)/¯

SilvasRuin

Change it to what I wonder.  Wouldn't just removing it make the game crash when using the abilities?  Or setting that 127 to 0?

Vanya

Yes. It would, technically. However, you can't technically just remove it either. What would have to be done is to just change it to load 0 as the value for break rate instead of doing the calculation it normally does. Then just replace any left over bytes with the NOP command that instructs the program to do nothing and go on to the next instruction. It should be that simple. The hassle is finding the correct data.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
¯\(°_0)/¯

Ventai

Hm, I have a thought, I was looking through the FFTPatcher, (because I was trying to make a custom class for Tidus) So I thought I'd look into Samurai... though I always hate the Break Rates, and when I looked at the abilities here's what I found, I think it's the formula for the Break:

22 //MayDisplay"Broken"

I think if it was possible to remove the //MayDisplay"Broken" text, it would make it impossible to break... but I couldn't find a way to change it around
In case anyone wants to look themselves, its under the ability tabs

Pickle Girl Fanboy

The text is just a description used in FFTPatcher.  It has absolutely nothing to do with the actual calculations the game does.
Random Question: how old are you?

SilvasRuin

When you see "//" preceding anything in code, it means what follows is a comment that doesn't actually do anything.  It is there to explain something to the person looking at it.

Pickle Girl Fanboy

Anyone know if the unused Traps do anything?  I'd love to have some HP and MP Restore traps lying around, and I want to get rid of Degenerators.  Looks like I have another experiment coming up.

What about the attack types?  Striking, Lunging, Direct, Arc?  How exactly do they work, and how does range factor in?  I'm wondering if I can give cloths a range of 2-4 panels in the four cardinal directions by giving cloths lunging and arc?

Random Questions:
What's the difference between the following Formulas?
0A Hit_F(MA+X)
0B Hit_F(MA+X)
Is there something hard-coded to one of them?

Same Questions, but with:
1C Hit_(X)% NS
1D Hit_(X)% NS

Same here:
00 Dmg_(Weapon)
01 Dmg_(Weapon)
05 Dmg_(Weapon)

SilvasRuin

Animation is probably the biggest thing affected by those attack types.  Unless I'm mistaken, Striking is what makes the character swing downward, Lunging is what makes the character thrust, and I'm not sure about the others.  I'm wanting to think Arc is what makes bows able to be shot over obstacles.  The real question is whether it is a mechanics setting or a graphical setting.  I suspect the same with Direct and guns/crossbows.

I'd have to figure out which of those formulas were used for what abilities to have any idea, but I might try taking a look and hunting them down.  Really, all you'd need is to look in the patcher for vanilla settings and see which ones are tied to abilities that have something special the formula doesn't list.


Edit:  It's weird.  0A is for all status spells that they assume you will target the enemy for.  0B is for all the status spells that they assume you will target an ally for.  Maybe the AI reads them a little differently?

1C and 1D are for singing and dancing respectively.  They might have something to do with reading those specific slots and doing the effect that each one is supposed to have.

00 probably shouldn't be used.  I'd be worried it wouldn't work right.  01 is the basic weapon attack formula.  I didn't see 05 anywhere.  I'm not sure why.

Pickle Girl Fanboy

Do you think we should make a sticky topic where we collect all the random oddities and stuff you wouldn't know unless you dig through the forums?  Stuff like having Jump higher than 0x80 lets others use you as a stepping stone?

EDIT
When all 3 unknown move-find item bits are activated:
1.  You can't get the treasure.
2.  But you don't activate the trap when you step on it, with or without Move-Find Item.
3.  Nothing happens.
^See uza.PNG

Look at terminate.PNG and mandalia.PNG.  See anything?
The fourth unknown bit from the top probably is a Move-Find Item Trigger.  If that bit is set, then you must have Move-Find Item to activate the Trap, and if it's not set, then you can activate the trap just by stopping on it.

Are the Trap Effects hard-coded to them, or do they just reference a specific ability?  Like how Counter Tackle references Dash, Counter references Attack, Gilgame Heart references Steal Gil, and Counter Flood references Geomancy.


Results of the other experiment where I screwed around with attacky types:

Striking
Forces a range of 1 onto the weapon.

Lunging
Forces a range of 2 - in the four cardial directions - on the weapon.

Direct
Cannot target the nearest 2 panels, so giving a Direct Weapon a Range less than 3 makes that weapon unusable.

Direct Combos
Sometimes forces a Crossbow-type attack pattern on the weapon.

Arcing
Cannot target the nearest 2 panels, so giving an Arcing Weapon a Range less than 3 makes that weapon unusable.

Arching Combos
Sometimes forces a Bow-type attack pattern on the weapon.

Combos
1.  Produce weird, unpredictible results.
2.  For some reason, the Range of the weapon has an effect on which trait (Striking, Lunging, Direct, and Arcing) is dominant.  Ask the guy who tried to make a turn-based FFT for more information of the effects Range has on Attack Types.
3.  Someone with serious ASM skills needs to take a look at this stuff.  There's way too much going on for me to sort it all out.


Random things I'll test soon:
Does Regenerator reference Regen?  They have the same animation...
Does Critical Quick reference Quick?

Ventai

February 14, 2010, 12:03:45 pm #34 Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 01:39:32 pm by Ventai
Quote from: "Pickle Girl Fanboy"The text is just a description used in FFTPatcher.  It has absolutely nothing to do with the actual calculations the game does.
Oh, I see. Well, I'm new to all of this stuff, so I just know the basics, and I've still not even got those down pat.

Quote from: "Pickle Girl Fanboy"Random Question: how old are you?
Lol, why do you want to know?

SilvasRuin

QuoteDoes Critical Quick reference Quick?
Hrm... that would be interesting.  More possibilities for creating special counters.  Bonecrusher (or whatever vanilla called it.  I forget) would potentially reference one of those abilities that do the same thing.  Even if they aren't tied to specific abilities, it should be possible to find the formulas they do reference and then customize them as we please.  Theoretically one could turn Critical Quick or Meatbone Slash (is that the vanilla name?) into the higher tiered Behemoths' tradition of casting meteo upon death.

formerdeathcorps

What happens if you uncheck all of the weapon hit types?  Does your weapon become inoperable?
Pickle, I don't think we need ASM to test this as much as we need meticulous testing of hit type combinations at varying range.

This is probably some of the best news I've heard in a while.  It's good to know that I can actually make a throwing axe.
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.

Ventai

Quote from: "formerdeathcorps"It's good to know that I can actually make a throwing axe.
I would love to see a throwing axe.... in real life and the game!

Pickle Girl Fanboy

Quote from: "formerdeathcorps"What happens if you uncheck all of the weapon hit types?  Does your weapon become inoperable?

Never thought of that... and it should be easy to test.
And as for the testing, you have all the possible combonations of:
Striking,
Lunging,
Direct,
Arcing,
and 0-255 Range.
The only way to be completely sure is to test EVERYTHING, which is why Vanya's Unused and Unknown Bit exploration project never took off.  There's just too many possiblities, too many things to test.  I have a notepad document at home full of things that need to be tested and verified, but I'm always looking for little things that I could check without losing my mind.

formerdeathcorps

If we split the task amongst the 5-10 of us interested, I'm sure we'd be able to do it.  I'm also willing to bet that beyond 8 range, there probably wouldn't be any difference in effects.
The destruction of the will is the rape of the mind.
The dogmas of every era are nothing but the fantasies of those in power; their dreams are our waking nightmares.